User:Camino 2-1-2/sandbox

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to keep everyone waiting. I need to make some points about translating.

The first thing is to not literally parse the term instead of translating it as a concept-to-concept, which is the real trick of translating. Since RKLawton never actually explained what he was thinking, I can only presume that his thought process ran something like this: Generalmajor = General major = Major General. "Translating" it this way is wrong since you are not translating one concept to another. This reminds of the first attempts to use crude computers as translation machines decades ago. They would translate a common English expression into a foreign language and then translate the result back into English. One failed example was the the expression, "Out of sight, out of mind," which when translated into Chinese and then back into English came out as, "Invisible idiot." That's an example of something literally parsed instead of translating a concept.

That is why I suggested the chart as a way to help make the point easier to understand. He didn't fill it out (he may not have known the correct answers) so I'll do it to help make my point.

US / German Officer Comparison Chart
From this chart we can see why it's incorrect to translate Generalmajor to Major General. When you translate the ranks you go from position to position (left to right), not name to name. After all, the U.S. Army and Navy both have a rank called Captain - would anyone claim that the two are the same position and hold the same amount of authority? Of course not; even though they're both Captains, that doesn't make them the same thing.

Look at it this way. Suppose the article had the following factually correct sentence: "On 23 Aug 1939, Rommel was promoted from Oberst to Generalmajor." Now if that statement were written entirely in English as RKLawton would have it, it would read like this: "On 23 Aug 1939 Rommel was promoted from Colonel to Major General." For the average English speaking reader this would make it look like he was promoted from Colonel to the two star General rank with him completely bypassing the one star General rank. (Refer to the chart above if necessary.) Would that be acceptable? Is it the purpose of Wikipedia to mislead readers or confuse them? I should hope not. Why not put factually accurate information in the article? I'm pretty sure Wikipedia policy expects editors to do that.

But to recap, let me address RKLawton's response point by point. He wrote:
 * "Rommel's article is not the place for pedantic or lessons in German military rank." I agree wholeheartedly. However, it is the place to put factually accurate information that does not unnecessarily mislead the reader.
 * "The correct and only translation for Generalmajor is Major General." That is absolutely incorrect as I have shown above.
 * "The equivalent rank may be interesting for some readers and they can follow the link to the Generalmajor article if they want more information." Wikipedia policy is to not unnecessarily require readers to follow links if the correct information can be given on the spot. For example, when the word "Blitzkrieg" is used it is often followed by "(lightning warfare)". While it's certainly appropriate to make it a wikilink so that readers can go to the related article for more information, it is also appropriate to give a quick translation so that the reader is not FORCED to go to another page just to find out what it means.
 * "Oddly enough, the Generalmajor article states that the US Army equivalent is also Major General." Well, a proper reading of that article would show that it doesn't apply to Rommel. That article applies to the modern West German Army which was reformed after 1955 when it joined NATO and adopted the NATO command structure, which is almost identical to the traditional U.S. Army command structure. So sending the reader to that article actually misleads the reader, as RKLawton as already experienced.

I'm willing to continue this discussion as long as it takes. Thanks again. __Camino 2-1-2 (talk) 04:43, 27 February 2016 (UTC)