User:Cedders/Rhiannon Waits supplementary discussion

Notability?
Is this individual notable enough to be featured on lists such as 'notable people from Kentucky', 'notable motivational speakers', etc.? I'm not saying this subjectively; I honestly don't know. However, I raise the point because the logs of the user who added all of these links suggests to me that Ms. Waits herself edited Wikipedia, or at the very least a friend/employee of hers.--Caliga10 22:36, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I find it highly unlikely that she is notable enough to be featured on those lists. --Disavian 23:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Try a google search before passing judgement. I know the new age community and I know she is notable. I amy not be up to date on things you know about - but then I wouldn't pass judgement on who is notable in an area I know nothing about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelleWoodbury (talk • contribs)
 * Please sign your comments.--Caliga10 02:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't see how to do this until now. I Apologize Michaelle 17:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Michaelle WoodburyMichaelle 17:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC) I have a suggestion to pull off most of the links except the magazines - and the bio - will this please everyone? Michaelle 00:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)MICHAELLEMichaelle 00:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I am Not MS. WAITS
I am not MS Waits nor am I Richard Sutphen or Lisa Iris. Would you like my entire list of people I plan on adding articles on? I am New Age. Ms. Waits is a syndicated columnist, author, Talk Show Host (www.letstalkaboutyou.com) a public speaker > WHAT I AM INTERESTED in - NOTED PSYCHIC MEDIUM. She has validation. Maybe you are against New Age people in this webspace? Try google searches - look in the new Age directories. Maybe then you will see who she is - Richard Sutphen is or Artist Lisa Iris. I and another person has researched her - we are paying an editor to edit this and we have started on Richard Sutphen. I have called in to her show and reported that I added her was adding Mr. Sutphen - should I now call and add that you are deleting her? Michaelle — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelleWoodbury (talk • contribs)
 * I'm having trouble following your line of argument, but I suppose it's worth trying the Google test on Ms. Waits.--Caliga10 02:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, I got about 11,000 Google matches for her. That satisfies me that an article on her is warranted.  Will vote against deletion.  However, I still don't think it makes sense to feature her on lists of motivational speakers, etc.  If she claims to be a psychic, then  I guess it's ok to list her in a 'notable psychics' category.  I really don't think what a psychic does is akin to what a motivational speaker does.--Caliga10 02:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the article needs to be more mature before it can be included on any lists. As for deletion, I'll asbstain. --Disavian 02:31, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I would like to add my comments to this ... Is she notable, yes. Are her predictions accurate, 100%. I decided to check wikipedia to see if there were more predictions she made recently, since the one she made about the volcano in indonesia erupting, and the need for the villagers to be evacuated is today's news. I first heard Ms Waits speak a year ago, and I can assure you that anyone who attended one of her 'talks' had left afterward lighter and a lot more centered, which is the purpose of a motivational speaker - isnt it? Athena louise 17:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC) Athena
 * Whether her predictions are accurate (even by chance) is completely irrelevant to notability. She might make Nostradamus look like Michael Fish, but if no-one independent has ever written about her, she is not notable.  By the way, like MichaelleWoodbury, you don't declare any conflict of interest, but I note  and you are given the title "Chatroom and Yahoo Group Manager" at . --Cedderstk 22:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Unlike many, I have never tried to hide my real name - hence - Michaelle Woodbury. I am a volunteer person that answers site e-mails and forwards the important ones on to staff. I have given all the site links you quote.

Yes, many people have written about Ms. Waits. Research will show this. I thought this was a user-friendly place. I come here to write about SEVERAL people and on my first one, I am bombarded with attacks. I think I should write about how impossible it is to write about someone unless you are within a click at this place. I have many nice e-mails - and you all know who you are - many rude ones - once again you know who you are. What I found worth saving are the e-mails that tell me how sorry they are that I am being "Ganged up on". Some of them tell me the ones that are being rough on me are really rather new themselves. I have never ever hid my e-mail, my name - my being a volunteer. I volunteer for many shows and people. At first, I thought I was because it might need editing. Therefore, I sent my work to Tony and paid for editing. It isn't back yet. Then it seemed it was because I knew her myself. Now I beginning to think it is an attack on her personally. I also volunteer for many online websites and blogs. Would it be wrong of me to write about the events here because I know them? Or should someone who knows nothing about it write about it? See my point? I have kindly asked how to write this to meet requirements. It is not VAIN as it is not about me. It is not Publicity because I am not her employee and I am not advertising her rates, her future agenda, I do not give contact information, e-mails, or phone numbers. I have tried to get anyone to join chats, yahoo groups or to purchase her books, video tapes, audio CD's or products. I have not mentioned her availability in any area. Notable? I think that would be up to people in her field of interest. There is no one "Notable" in NASCAR as far as I am concerned. Jerry Springer Show is not "Notable". It might be to someone else and I would not get in the way of that. This site is not directed towards my interests only. I continuously ask NICELY for someone to respond with questions, suggestions or constructive critique. Instead, people use more research power trying to find negative stuff than being objective and researching her. Would anyone like phone numbers of the people who write about her? What about names and phone numbers of the independent publications that carry her columns? Maybe her guest list? Maybe the head of the shows where she spoke with these people who are already included here? Why is it there are so many hateful comments and slurs towards me or anyone that is associated with Rhiannon. I have even seen cut downs about her and she doesn't even know about this - YET. Once again - THANK YOU for the nice e-mails and the sympathic ones as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelleWoodbury (talk • contribs)


 * Please don't take it personally; you are not being "ganged up on". I would, however, like to disabuse you of any misconception you may have that Wikipedia can be used for publicity or to assert contested points of view.  This process (Articles for Deletion) is a common way of deciding whether or not it is possible to write a neutral, verifiable article about a particular subject. I have tried to research online, but not turned up any source of neutral, independent or critical information, only press releases and articles by the subject or her associates.  WP:VAIN just happens to be shorthand for a Wikipedia guideline which partly explains what is wrong with writing about a subject you have first-hand, unverifiable, knowledge of ('vanity edits are edits about the editors themselves, their close relatives or their personal associates'; 'Wikipedia's policy on verifiability prohibits the inclusion of things that are not verifiable from independent sources'). Wikipedia has academic-style standards in that way; it is not like a blog.  Phone numbers on this discussion page might be useful (this would be preferred to email in order to make verification more transparent).  There already is a list of articles by the subject and publications carrying them.  What would be useful is citing articles about the subject, for example, a report on a speaking tour, or a book review.  (Of some use also would perhaps be adding information about the publications, e.g. stating which ones exist in a print format.)  When people request a citation, any link should support the questioned assertion.  I hope this explains things.  Regards --Cedderstk 00:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for replying. I will start looking these up. Here is one to start with. [book review] . I just thought everyone had followed the links on the page where this one was listed - sorry. Also the Blue Mountain BZ is an independant company that gave the book review. I will start gathering these sites today and listing them for you. The WOW fest is an independant writing concerning Rhiannon Waits as well. I have things I have to do today but I will try to get them on.

68.1.122.211 13:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)MICHAELLE68.1.122.211 13:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I am trying to make changes as I am asked. I would appreciate input on these changes if you have the time. Michaelle 19:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)MichaelleMichaelle 19:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I doubt adding external links is going to help much in addressing the main concerns, unless they are to specific articles by independent people writing about Ms Waits. If the page is kept (which is doubtful), the publications should really have internal links (see External links).  That is, if the publications are themselves notable and have Wikipedia articles, they can be linked to, and this is pasrt of the process of 'wikifying' an article. (To find if an article exists, try a Google search including  ). --Cedderstk 22:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Predictions
That Ms. Waits predicted Hurricane Katrina and the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami is a pretty significant claim. I'd be curious to know when she did so, preferably with evidence from a neutral, reliable source. If she made very specific claims far in advance that turned out to be correct, why isn't she more famous?--Caliga10 23:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Please e-mail me privately and I will give you the director of the show where she made these predictions on stage.Maybe he will send you a video tapeMichaelle 00:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)MichaelleMichaelle 00:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelleWoodbury (talk • contribs)

Also - I wish she was. I know she predicted these and I could get many many people to testify to this. Why isn't she more famous? I really do not know. Michaelle 00:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)MICHAELLEMichaelle 00:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC) I have looked and this is a page that Mel Minitor - President of Lightstream Media and agent for Dannion Brinkley put up. These are testimonials. In there you will see one that says he was present at the show over her predictions. [look here]
 * I just got done reviewing that page. I have to say that the style of writing sounds to me like the same person wrote all of those testimonials.  Also, I reviewed a page earlier with a Rhiannon Waits biography, purportedly written by Ms. Waits, that looked suspiciously like your writing, Michaelle, which is (no offense) a bit unusual in style.  Please note that I voted against this article's deletion and my criticism is intended to be constructive, but I think these items are worth mentioning anyway.--Caliga10 01:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I really think you need to take this up with Mel Minitor. This is HIS page and not Rhiannon Waits or mine.Mel Minitor actually has his testimonial in there with Charles Broadwater from Blue Mountain in Atlanta. As I said - email me private and I will give you their numbers. They both well known and established men. www.bluemountain.bz. This is one of Mr. Broadwaters companies. I respect your candor - but how is it I write like Rhiannon, Mel Minitor and Charles Broadwater along with others. I supply you e-mails and phone numbers so you can know rather than write these assumptions. And once again - I am not being rude - I am offer solutions to problems and answers to questions. I just need someone to step up and gather this info and fact find on their own. Michaelle 01:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)MICHAELLEMichaelle 01:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * '''Please allow me to copy and paste what Mister Minitor has written. I had him contacted concerning the thought that Rhiannon or I had written the testimonials that he features on his page. It was then I found out that he is not Dannion Brinkley's Manager anymore. So Allow me to copy and paste so his words will be exact. You can also go to the page for deletion and find where he put it on this site as well.
 * I would like to make a statement. I am not Dannion Brinkley's manager. I did work with him for over 20 years. His wife has been his manager the past couple of years. We at LightStream no longer work with Dannion nor his wife! The information posted on our site about Dannion, was given to us by Dannion or his wife and is there for information purposes only! I, and LightStream Productions has worked with Rhiannon since 2003. The comments I made about Rhiannon Waits on our site and in her book, are my experiences with her, and are true and I stand by by what I wrote. I will put her ability up against anyone!! If anyone has a question, you may email me directly!! It is absurd to think Rhiannon wrote my testimonial nor do I appreciate anyone making such claims without checking with me!68.1.122.211 19:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Mel Minitor68.1.122.211 19:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC) 18:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC) Mel Minitor

68.1.122.211 19:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)MICHAELLE68.1.122.211 19:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I commented on this post on the AfD page. Please note, however, that I didn't bring this up in the context of the deletion discussion, so it's probably not germane to the discussion going on there.  My bringing up this point assumes the article will be kept (since if it's deleted, any discussion of content becomes irrelevant.)--Caliga10 19:15, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I find this entire discussion interesting. Yes I am proud to know Rhiannon Waits. Anyone who has met her and talked to her shares this feeling. It was mentioned that no independent articles appear about her... that is because anyone that writes about her gets to know her first. How else can you write about someone if you dont interview the subject? Someone said - if she is that notable, why isn't she more famous? Just because that writer hasn't heard of Rhiannon doe not mean many others have not. Another point brought up was about her predictions. I suggest that person go to her home page and check predictions for this year. Since I met Rhiannon, every one of her predictions has come to pass. She warned me, personally, about hurricane Wilma, and I, in turn, warned my neighbors. When Hurricane Wilma hit, it was supposed to be a cat. 1 - Rhiannon told me it would be a cat 3. It was. You can check with google regarding her predictions and when they were made. Don't knock someone until you check out the facts. Athena louise 15:28, 8 June 2006 (UTC)athena
 * I can't claim to speak for the whole of Wikipedia, but what I'd really like to see is an established editor who works on New Age articles evaluate this page and comment. I'll try to see if I can find one to weigh in.  In general, Wikipedia frowns on deletion discussions and the like that are, on one side, composed of friends, family, employees, etc. with a vested interest in the subject.  I'm sure Michaelle, Athena, and so on can understand that (since in such a case it's very difficult to maintain impartiality) and would appreciate a neutral evaluation.--Caliga10 16:34, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I definitely would appreciate someone familiar with new age to check on what was written about Rhiannon and give an honest opinion after verifying the information. There are many things I could have written about Rhiannon, including she is the only true psychic/medium i have ever met, but that is for an independent person to find out for him (or her) self.Athena louise 16:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)athena
 * Great, thanks. I've alerted the Spirituality Wikiproject and asked them to review the article.  Thanks again.--Caliga10 17:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

no - thank you for taking the time to do this. I sincerely appreciate itAthena louise 18:31, 8 June 2006 (UTC) athena