User:Cullen328/Mentorship/Letters

Hello Laura,

Before you read what I have to say, please let me reassure you that I am not mad at you at all. I like you very much and I am trying to help you become a better Wikipedia editor.

Remember that part of our mentorship agreement says: The parties accept the following statement: "It is the job of the protégé to adapt to Wikipedia, not to demand that Wikipedia accommodate them as they are. The mentor's job is to teach and advise the protégé, not to coddle them."

I am going to do my best to try to guide your behavior in a more productive direction. At the same time, I understand, probably better than anyone else you know on Wikipedia, the unique challenges you face as a Wikipedia editor working in Cuba.

You asked me to try to find an email address where you might be able to communicate with Ali Hewson about a photograph. I visited the Edun web page, and they don't highlight email addresses very much, except for customer complaints and things like that. But I did a bit of searching and discovered that they have a staffer named    Katrine Thamdrup whose job title is Press/Events/Marketing. Her email address is kthamdrup@edun.com.

Before you sit down to dash off an email to Katrine, please consider the following: Your recent interactions with Anna Frodesiak went a bit too far, in my opinion. Anna was kind enough to help you contact Morleigh Steinberg about getting a properly licensed photo. A comment there by Theroadislong indicates that editor was also helping you try to get a photo, and also heard from Morleight Steinberg. When you ask two people to help and both try to help independently, then that makes Wikipedia look unprofessional to celebrities like Bono, the Edge and their families and representatives. Theroadislong commented about Morleigh Steinberg "Poor lady is being bombarded!" Anna closed that section of her talk page, with a clear note at the top, saying "The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion." Six minutes later, you continued the same discussion in a new section. When an editor says the discussion is closed, you are supposed to drop the subject.

Then, I read various things you have written on Theroadislong's talk page, specifically the sections "Mystery Girl calling again" and the struck out comment on "Picture for Morleigh Steinberg". Theroadislong is a good editor. You don't have to act flirtatious or plead with him for help or personal information. He will help you if he wants to, and decline if he is not interested. The struck out comment really went too far, in my opinion, and calls into question your ability at this time to engage in a calm, professional interaction with Ali Hewson or her representatives limited only to the issue of obtaining a freely licensed photo of her to illustrate her Wikipedia article.

I want to remind you of a few things. First of all, the neutral point of view guides all of our content creation. I think a similar tone should guide our interactions as editors as well. Of course, a certain amount of joking and friendly banter takes place among editors who work together on an ongoing basis. But that should all be for the purpose of improving the encyclopedia. I know that you are frustrated by your poor internet access that limits your research abilities. I can't imagine how hard it must be to work without ready access to Google search tools. But there are many things that you can do. You can study to good article and featured article criteria, and analyze the articles you would like to improve. You can draft expansions and wording changes for me and your other friends to review for grammar and fluency.

Uploading images and videos, especially those that are not freely licensed, is a very tricky and problematic area of editing. I advise you to go very slowly in this area, and study all of the image and copyright resources available here on Wikipedia. By the way, do you have free access to Wikimedia Commons?

Enthusiasm is a great thing, but when it leads to impatience, then it becomes a problem. Please remember that on Wikipedia there is no deadline. This is a volunteer project, and every active editor participates as much or as little as they want. I can work three hours today, not at all tomorrow, and ten minutes the next day. No one minds. It would be nice to add photos to the articles about Morleight Steinberg and Ali Hewson tomorrow, but if it takes a couple of weeks or a couple of months, or a couple of years, that is OK too. If neither ever makes a freely licensed photo available, that is OK too. Asking respectfully is fine, but it is wrong to pressure them in any way.

I have given you blanket permission to ask me any question at any time, with the understanding that sometimes, I can respond quickly, and other times, it may take a few hours. I have work and family obligations, as you know. So, when you ask my permission to ask me a question. that just slows down the interactive communication between us. Please just ask your question. Another request is to start a new thread on my talk page for each new question. I often edit on a smart phone, and it does not handle long blocks of text well. It is much easier for me to respond to a fresh new section than a long older section. Thank you.

I want you to read the essay about single-purpose accounts. In a sense, you have been acting as a single-purpose U2 fan account. That is understandable, and you have been a much more productive and useful editor that many other SPAs, who often come to push some bizarre point of view or fringe theory. Most rock music fans will readily agree that U2 is a great band. Few will agree that they are indisputably the greatest band ever, and that editors should focus on U2 related articles to the exclusion of all other work here. Be careful not to come across that way. Take a look at the list of articles on my user page, and on the pages of other respected editors. You will see that almost every respected editor here makes contributions to articles on a very wide range of topics. I encourage you to branch out to other topic areas besides U2. How about Cuban topic areas? You local library must have plenty of reliable sources about Cuban topics.

Currently, only 4% of your edits are to article space. I know that much of your work here has been learning and discussing and even motivating other editors to create and improve articles. I never would have started Vaillancourt Fountain or helped you start Morleigh Steinberg without your inspiration. But I think that we should set as a goal a real effort to improve the rate of your contributions to article space. For me, the figure is 38% and you know that I do a lot of behind-the-scenes work at the Teahouse, Articles for Deletion, and the Biographies of living people noticeboard. Really good editors write and expand and reference and improve articles, and actively improve the encyclopedia. Friendly discussion is secondary to that.

I have spent a lot of time tonight writing this letter, because I thought that it was important to make these points. Instead, I could have been doing research on the Walk in My Shows Project, or explaining to you what "naked as a jaybird" means, or discuss the usage of Ye (pronoun) in the Irish dialect of English, which is different from the usage Ye Olde that I explained the other day. Have you read EDUN? That needs work. Instead, I needed to write this letter.

Let me close by saying what I said at the beginning: I am not mad at you. My goal, as it has always been, is to help you become a better Wikipedia editor. I am convinced that you have that potential. You just need to get the "fan girl" aspect of your personality under control. You are intelligent and enthusiastic and talented. You can do it. I know you can.

Your friend and mentor,

Jim

 Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  06:41, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Response
Hello Jim:

First of all, thank you for always helping me and make me focus on things that really matters. I like you very much too, and as I said in another comment, you are one of the best friends I have found online ever.

Also, I want to say thank you for understanding the challenges I face working here. It is really pretty hard, since I feel powerless when I try to focus in another subject to work on (not U2), I was thinking the other day about working on The Script's related articles, they are an Irish band that I love, the lead vocal Danny, is one of the couches in The Voice UK. I was taking a look at their articles and they need a lot of work, but again... I have Internet problems. I also thought about working on William Blake's articles; my hometown (Boyeros) which I see as a stub... etc

I apologize for my behaviour on Theroadislong and Anna's talk page, I also thought the I went too far. But let me clarify something (I don't know American custom), but I was definitely NOT acting flirtatious, I was just being nice. But again, I apologize for that. I wil surely work on my professionalism from now on.

On the other hand, I will (and I mean this) ask you anything without asking your permission. And I will start a new thread.

About single-purpose I already told you about what I would like to work too besides U2.

I already read EDUN. And I would really like to work on it.

Thank you, Jim. For taking your precious time to help me. I really appreciate that. I did not write more because you know my little problem with English, this far I don't know how many grammatical mistakes I have made, and I hope you understand me.

Well, I'll wait for your response whenever you can. If you want to know anything else, just ask.

PS: You didn't say if you would like to help me to write the letter for Katrine Thamdrup. (Should I aske her for a pict of Ali or she is just a path to follow to get to her??)

Best wishes my friend...

Laura

Guessing

 * Will be right guessing Alison's email as ahewson@edun.com?
 * Are you sure it is completely legal to send Katrine Thamdrup an email?? In that case, should I ask her for a pict of Ali or she is just a path to follow to get to her?? Miss Bono   (zootalk)  16:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Please, please do not try to guess Ali's email address and approach her that way. International celebrities have assistants and handlers to deal with the legions of fans, and it is important to go through the proper channels. If you get pegged as an obsessed fan, they simply won't communicate with you. As a matter of law, of course you can email the staffer. But the approach has to be scrupulously proper regarding OTRS and copyright law. How would you feel if they gave us an image, and it wasn't properly licensed for use on Wikipedia? And they considered it too much of a hassle to work out? So, please be careful here.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  19:09, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, ok, ok just asking. You have to know that I won't do ANYTHING (and with ANYTHING I mean ANYTHING) without asking you first. I like my head where it is :D.
 * How is that the can gave us an image, that isn't properly licensed for use on Wikipedia if they are the owners?? Don't get that point (maybe due to my not-native English)
 * Another thing. Anna gave my this, it is a copy of a letter she sends to people when they are agree to upload a picture. If you have a more proper understanding of this, please explin it to me, I am really bad with those stuffs
 * PS: I really didn't get this line: "How would you feel if they gave us an image, and it wasn't properly licensed for use on Wikipedia? And they considered it too much of a hassle to work out? So, please be careful here."
 * When I first read it I just saw myself in jail :(
 * Please, reply ASAP  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  19:23, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Licensing
Right. I had forgotten, the new section thing. Sorry :'(  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  19:50, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * There are several Creative Commons licenses. Some are acceptable here and some aren't. It is tricky and minor mistakes screw things up. No one goes to jail for this kind of stuff. Don't worry.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  20:06, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Uff... thank God. Take a look at this, I need some response User_talk:Miss_Bono   Miss Bono   (zootalk)  20:14, 24 May 2013 (UTC)