User:Daenumen/phlogiston

phlogiston 20th Century interpreting 18th century wrongly!!!!
I will attempt to prove that the discussions i have held can be shown valid, given what was known in the 18th century.

it is well accepted that:

phlogiston containing wood + dephlogisticated air --> calx(phlogiston depleted wood) + phlogisticated air.

phlogisticated air --> dephlogisticated air + phlogiston (which must be contained within a material, otherwise it is still in the air)

thus it 'should' be possible to:

calx(phlogiston depleted wood) + phlogisticated air > phlogiston containing wood + dephlogisticated air

we also know this is contradictory to the definitions of calx and phlogistication! HOWEVER, it can also be understood that it is NOT possible, by considering Iron and Iron Calx to show that:

Iron + dephlogisticated air --> Iron Calx + phlogisticated air

Iron Calx + phlogiston containing wood + dephlogisticated air --> Iron + Wood Calx + phlogisticated air

this can be understood as a resistance to reversibility in irons case, and irreversibility with wood (unless phlogistication of wood calx were discovered), and would be in agreement with the  modern understanding of the second law of thermodynamics, without requiring modern understanding.

Hence: either the article is claiming that the scientists did not know what they were doing, or many misinterpretations have been made, ON LINGUISTIC AND ETYMOLOGICAL GROUNDS!!! Daenumen (talk) 17:08, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Furthermore, to clarify,

The key difference assumed is that:

phlogiston rich air does not burn phlogiston rich wood does burn

which again are in contradiction to the Null hypothesis definitions of Phlogiston and Calx: And it is in this sense that the definitions utilised in the 'challenge and demise' are inconsistent, and hence have exacted a conclusion that phlogiston is not correct, where it is infact the alternative hypothesese namely, that phlogiston has mass, that are invalidated.

whether this is by hands of the scientists themselves, or by modern misunderstanding is the topic of discussion; where i believe the later to be true; in that it has been misunderstood when the article was compiled.

Daenumen (talk) 17:45, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

perhaps it would be most correct to refer to the process of phlogistication with regard a closed system only, such that:

the closed system of a combustion vessel containing lit wood and air is dephlogisticated once the flames have disappeared.

such that fire itself signifies a change in phlogiston, baring in mind that the flame itself is not necessarily phlogiston (as per the definition).

hence a closed system can be described as phlogisticated, ie rich in phlogiston and able to support combustion (or life), or dephlogisticated, and hence unable to support combustion (or life).

ie 'elemental fire' must be available within the materials that are combusting in order for that combustion to occur, such that the description should read:

air or wood containing phlogiston are phlogisticated and can support combustion or life. air or wood that contains no phlogiston are dephlogisticated and cannot support combustion or life.

then when considering the calx, it should be noted that a piece of wood, burnt in a vessel may not completely be combusted, such that, on the addition of 'new air' the wood may continue to burn. hence:

a piece of wood, becomes a calx when combusted in enough air to convert all the wood into a calx air is transformed into a calx when, in a closed vessel, the process of combustion has stopped prior to the conversion of all the wood into calx.

again this is information that would have been readily available to the scientists investigating phlogiston.

and once more 'phlogistication', because it sounds good. Daenumen (talk) 18:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

FINALLY Phlogiston could be understood by modern understanding as the 'diametrically opposite concept' to that of 'Entropy', in all cases the laws of entropy must hold true: The difference between Phlogiston and Entropy of course is in the subjective aapproach to the phenomena. 18:57, 5 September 2010 (UTC) Daenumen (talk) 19:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Daenumen (talk) 11:28, 10 September 2010 (UTC)