User:Dan1980/Long hook

Thank you for your "Did You Know" hook, but please make it shorter.

Template talk:Did you know states: "Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:...short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces)". (Quote as of January 2008.)

Frequently asked questions
Q: Did you write this page just for me?

A: No. Hook length is a routine, often recurring problem, in fact this page was originally written by Art LaPella, who also checks hook length.

Q: '''Why did you check the length of my hook? Are you an admin?'''

A: I'm not an admin. My aim in checking hook lengths is to give nominators sufficient time to shorten the hook before the nomination expires.

Q: If I shortened the hook, would it be accepted?

A: That would be a good start. There may (or may not) be other problems with your hook or article, but they will be listed separately, perhaps later.

Q: '''My article is 1500 characters. Isn't that long enough? Why should it be shorter?'''

A: The hook is not the same as the article. Template:Did you know lists several hooks, typically beginning with "...that". Generally speaking, hooks should be short and articles should be long. Hooks are so called because they are intended to hook readers into reading the article.

Q: What is a character?

A: A character is a letter, or a space between letters, or a punctuation mark, or anything else made with one keystroke (or one shifted keystroke). The next sentence is an example of how to count characters. This sentence has 32 characters. Count 4 for the four letters in "This", 1 for the space between "This" and "sentence", 8 for the eight letters in "sentence", 1 for the space after "sentence", 3 for "has", 1 for the next space, 2 for the "3" and the "2" in "32", 1 for the space, 10 for "characters", and 1 for the full stop. 4+1+8+1+3+1+2+1+10+1 = 32.

Q: Did you give any consideration to the quality of my hook, or are you simply a beancounter?

A: I'm simply a beancounter. The selecting administrator is free to ignore my count. In practice, that seldom happens, but it isn't my choice. All Wikipedia rules can be changed or waived if the consensus changes.

Q: I count about 40 fewer characters than you do.

A: Then you probably aren't including the spaces, as specified at Template talk:Did you know. For what it's worth, I don't count the "..." but I do count the "?".

Q: My hook is only just over 200 characters, isn't it short enough already?

A: Maybe, maybe not. My character count is intended for information only, I don't decide if the hook is used or not. If you feel that you could shorten the hook slightly without reducing the quality then shorten it, otherwise leave it as it is and it may still be used. Incidentally, I normally tag all hooks that are over 200 characters as the Did You Know Instructions state that "the 200-character limit is an outside limit not a recommended length." (Quote as of August 2008.)

Q: So just how do you count characters?

A: See the Template talk:Did you know paragraph that begins with "To count the number of characters..."

Q: It's the selecting administrator's job to make hooks concise, regardless of the character count.

A: Yes it is. It's also his job to select hooks, and a hook that doesn't need reworking is probably more likely to be selected.

Q: So what is the rule about who should shorten a hook?

A: There isn't one. Often the author does it. Often a Did You Know regular (or anybody) suggests a shortened version. Often it goes unshortened. Maybe a selecting administrator will shorten it, and maybe it just won't be used. Hooks significantly over 200 characters on the Main Page are rare, although hooks just over 200 characters do sometimes make it.

Q: '''Why is there a length limit at all? Wouldn't it be better to describe my article in full detail?'''

A: Wouldn't it be better to have room for more hooks, leading to more articles? Or would it be better to eliminate your hook to make more room for other hooks? Once again, all Wikipedia rules can be changed or waived if the consensus changes, but I prefer beancounting to politics.

Q: If you have time to count characters and write objections, why don't you just shorten it?

A: In my opinion it's better if you shorten your own hook as you get to choose what stays and what goes. I rarely alter hooks as I don't feel comfortable writing about subjects unless I am very knowledgable in that field, which is rarely the case with DYK suggestions due to the diversity of the page. I also don't have enough time to edit hooks, whereas counting hook lengths is a fairly quick task.

Q: '''The hook is only half that long. Didn't you notice where the question mark goes?'''

A: Hooks usually end with a question mark, but sometimes there are succeeding sentences beyond the question mark. If succeeding sentences appear to be intended as part of a hook, the characters should be counted. If they aren't intended as part of the hook, they shouldn't be there - unless they are a comment, in which case they should be more clearly distinguished from the hook.

User:Dan1980