User:Davo88/Sandbox

{Atabek and Grandmaster}
If the arbitration will ban me, it could... I made my point anyway. I have attempted to discuss, like I always do when I start. The arbitration can check the discussions here and here in consideration with the edits on the mainspace of the relevant articles (Atabek edits) and witness the disruption. It could be seen that I have not disrupted Wikipedia to make my point. I ask the arbitration to further let me at least some time to provide a few evidences. (Only on POV pushing, and not a few... It’s a large junk which I wanted another member to proxy for me, but I thought I should post it myself)

The reason why Grandmaster is implicating Meowy in this arbitration case
I think it is relevant for the arbitrators to know why Grandmaster is implicating Meowy by making a proposition similar to mine, knowing well that it will have him banned. If we verify, we’d see that while Armenian editors like Marshal were more versed in articles which Grandmaster contributed in, Grandmaster pushed Meowy in this arbitration case because of one single article which ended up interesting Meowy. Every editors implicated in this case know who Meowy is, he doesn't hide it... Check for example the pictures he has loaded, all taken by him, all of them from his website. Meowy is the Scottish architect who is interested in Armenian architecture; he’s probably one of those who knows best about the subject. In 2005 he has investigated the allegations of destruction of the Armenian Khachkars in Azerbaijan. One of his reports could be found here. It was used as evidence in the European parliament, see Charles Tannock (PPE-DE). All in all, his report was used on Wikipedia in a related article. User:Grandmaster was by far the one who has most attempted to remove relevant materials on the destruction of Khachkars on Wikipedia. I am just making a supposition here. But to me, his attempt to get Meowy banned by making a proposition very much like mine is done in bad faith, given that Meowy was minding his own business and the only reason he landed in the article on the church of Kish is because of his interest in the architecture of the churches in the region.

I will note that Meowy was not only harsh on Azerbaijanis; I know that this is not a justification and could potentially worsen his cases of personal attack. He has also made displaced comments about the Armenians. Khoikhoi, who edited in articles he contributed, could testify by providing evidences himself. The point I am trying to make is that the claim according to which Meowy has attempted to turn Wikipedia into a battleground is as bogus, just as the claim according to which I tried doing that. I think Meowy can be rehabilitated with a non-personal attack parole; I don't want the mistake done on me to be done on other good contributors who contribute in good faith.

The validity of the sources used
I wish that the arbitrators would read this and not take it as a matter of content dispute, because it isn’t. The arbitration can not take a decision on POV pushing without having some background information on the actual problem.

I will provide the authors who are presented as source in a wide range of articles by the concerned users. They are often presented as the sole source, and used to dismiss and exclude the wide range of scholarly work. Sources will be often used and presented as absolute truth while when sources are presented, the official recognized history will be distorted, reinterpreted, misquoted etc. I will first provide the authors, and then will be providing the evidences on the long standing POV pushing on Wikipedia.

Charles va der Leeuw
Charles van der Leeuw wrote Azerbaijan: A Quest for Identity. This work is a propaganda piece and is considered nothing more than junk. It has received harsh reviews. For example, a reviewer says: This combination of carelessness and inaccuracy is characteristic of the book as a whole.... The review also shows mistakes, some of which any newbie, even a person who is not well versed in the subject, will find and trace. The reviewer, after citing some of those writes: His interpretation resembles the one developed by Azerbaijani nationalists in the Soviet Era:... (Muriel Atkin, Russian Review, Vol. 60, No. 4. (Oct., 2001) p. 663-62. It is accessible here.

Here another review on his other work entitled “Storm over the Caucasus: In the Wake of Independence”. The reviewer writes: Rather than filling any void in the study of the Caucasus, van der Leeuw has managed to produce one of the poorest books ever written on the region in recent years... Van der Leeuw's apparent lack of knowledge about existing sources is one possible explanation for the numerous flaws found in his volume...  (Hovann Simonian, Central Asia Surver (2000), 19(2) 297-303. The review is accessible here.

Here’s another review: Merely to lost the technical (to say nothing of the much more crucial factual) mistakes occurring here would take up the space normally allotted to a whole review, and so all I can do is suggest a flavour of what is in store for the reader. (George Hewitt, Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 62, No. 3. (1999), pp. 593-594). The review is accessible here.

He has lived in Baku since 1992; he has supported the pipeline construction. His work “Oil and Gas in the Caucasus & Caspian: A History”, Palgrave Macmillan (September 2, 2000) is a propaganda work.

Svante E. Cornell
The author Svante E. Cornell has four major works, one in particular is used in Wikipedia to establish truth. He is the Research Director of the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute, and the Silk Road Studies Program. He is also the Co-editor (with S. Frederick Starr), of the “Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline: Oil Window to the West”. His family runs the Cornell Caspian Consulting ; the mission of which is to tract investors. To quote: Even the most restrictive estimates of oil reserves in the Caspian (ca. 70 billion barrels) surpass the proven oil reserves of either Europe, Africa, or the rest of Asia. The Caspian Sea, for those who do not know, is where Azerbaijan pumps its billions of petro-dollars. He received a honorary degree from the Azerbaijani Academy of Sciences. While the consulting passes as some sort of Caucasus consulting, its main interest is the construction of the pipeline which completely excludes Armenia from the region. He works with Fariz Ismailzade, who leads the project in Azerbaijan, and who is also director of the political program of the International Republican Institute stationed on the Caspian Business Center. Tabib Huseynov, who was a former member here on Wikipedia worked as the program assistant of the same institute and who made all the POV pushing first, removing Armenia and distorting history before leaving and having Grandmaster guard those articles.

Evidence presented by {your user name}
before using the last evidence template, please make a copy for the next person

{Write your assertion here}
Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

Grandmaster
Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.

OK, this is not full, 6 moths are missing(which will come later), and I will be including all his long history of excessive stalking and distortions.

Here is where I start, note that it does not include all, I have no time to check every diff. For a selected range of dates, I pick. But I will cover it until the last case.


 * Here Grandmaster deletes without requesting any materials or attribution of sources the destruction of Khachkars, calling it Armenian propaganda, to ironically replace the section with a said Armenian occupation of a village.


 * Here he reverts someone who adds at least something on Armenian presence. Which btw is true and I doubt Grandmaster would deny this. It’s right on the middle of historic Eastern and Western Armenia.


 * Here he reverts another attempt to incorporate something about Armenian presence in that land. Not even a proposal of what his problem is, a neutralization or at least keeping some part of it.


 * Here, Grandmaster expands the history part, not once does he add anything about the word’s etymology being Armenian. He further pushes his POV, incorporating Atropatene, the article which will later be pushed to distort and pass Azerbaijan as its continuity further making it look like Nakhichevan is historically Azerbaijani.


 * Here, GM decreases the figures of Armenian deaths and increases those of the Azerbaijani, claiming it as official, while American figures place it at indeed above a 100. (He uses preliminary Soviet figures)


 * Here, GM removes the mention of the Armenian community, claiming what does that mean. It is pretty clear to me, but he nevertheless erased any mentions to the community.


 * Here he removes Armenia claiming it was not located there. In that period, an Armenian principality did integrate it. Abu Dulaf for exemple trace Khachen principality in the south of Partav. Under the Arabs, the Partav division was even used as a capital of the redefined Armenia (see for exemple: Communautés syriaques en Iran et Irak des origines à 1552 by Jean Maurice Fiey, Variorum Reprints 1979, p.291)


 * Here he removes Armenian, for the Armenian village.


 * Here Grandmaster reverts another attempt to incorporate anything about Armenians. My God! He could have at least left that the word is Armenian.


 * Again, and he says that it is not Armenian, only proven facts.


 * Adds the tag disputing neutrality on Julfa without saying why.


 * Here he removes half of the population being Armenian. OK, a mistake, 42%, not that it was that far from truth. He didn't need to remove the whole thing, didn’t he?


 * Here GM replaces blockaded by Azerbaijan to conflict. He could have clarified that it was blocked for that. Why should he remove the text saying that Azerbaijan is blocking Armenia, one of the reasons why Azerbaijan was partly sanctioned?


 * Removes Armenian spelling. His argument may make sense, but he reverted any attempts to add anything about the origin of the word or an Armenian connection with the place. It is an Armenian word, what was he expecting, no information on Armenians? Which he removed bit by bit?


 * Here he claims that the statistics are already mentioned, while the mention of the massacre is removed. While searching in the rest of the article, we find that it is made as a two sided clash.


 * Here he allegedly finally neutralizes the blockage. I wonder what is POV in the word blockage, He replaces it by a misleading term as it is not a simple closure. It is a blockage in the proper sense of the term.


 * revert warring on that, even calling it disinformation. I wonder what the problem is about the fact that Azerbaijan blockaded Armenia. Is anyone denying this?


 * Another attempt reverted to at least mention something about the Armenian presence. I mean, Nakhichevan’s relation to Armenians is supposed to be the continuation of Ararat. According to mythologies, Haik, descendent of Noah, founded Armenia by first moving to Nakhichevan. Grandmaster even makes of the destruction of the Khachkars as allegations. It isn’t even about wherever or not Azerbaijan's government destroyed it.


 * Again removing anything on Armenians.


 * Grandmaster reverts again the closure of the borders. What is his problem with this? Hasn't Azerbaijan closed the borders? Does he know something we don't?


 * Here revert again the closure of borders and call the edit vandalism. Raffi gave up with the rest, like adding the Armenian connection to Nakhichevan, but even that would be too much.


 * Here he added this as if he has polled every single organization in the world.


 * Again, GM deletes and he accuses of vandalism


 * Again


 * Yet again he waters down another user’s attempt on the information on Khachkars.


 * Here he waters it down more and more and even adds misleading information on the alleged observers in order to turn this into a two-sided destruction. We shouldn’t even need to say that most Muslim monuments in Armenia are Persian designs...


 * Here, GM reverts again another user’s attempt to place anything about the Armenian etymology of the word. As if that’s not enough, statistics are there to show how Armenians are not native to the region (those Romans when reporting them, or the Greeks or the various other sources such as the Persians, the Jews etc. must have all hallucinated the Armenian presence on that place); he even adds for 49% as being majority. Nothing of course is said about the fact that the whole population of Erivan was of 29,000, or on Shah Abbas’ depopulation, which, on other articles, he pushes to claim that others were also permanently removed.


 * Does it again. He removes a source and replaces it by requesting fact, and replaces plurality with majority. I don't know in which universe 49% is a majority... Not to mention that they were Turkic speaking, including the Persians, the Kurds, the Circassians... like Fedayee said various articles had those irrelevant statistics included on how Armenians were not native (which are distorted)... While checking you’d see that Tabib started it and it was later maintained by Grandmaster.


 * Again with the same distortion. He is assuming a purpose on the resettlement of Armenians. Nothing is said on the fact that the very significant amount of the resettled population were brought back. (brought back, because they were deported from there for centuries, one massive such event, Shah Abbas II forced the resettlement of the Armenian population).


 * Reverts alleged vandalism. Check how after calling “vandalism” edits which he disagree with, he mislead Raffi on what vandalism means per rule, so Raffi would start accusing Grandmaster of vandalism.


 * Check this out. The Azerbaijani authorities’ answer is there, he succeeds in expending and even quoting from an official.


 * Check here He removes... While the edit is indeed POV, it was an answer to the above quote which Tabib, and later, Grandmaster has added. The supposed 1 million Armenians being settled... To make matters worst, he has been using one single source, Shavrov, a xenophobic official who wrote the material about how immigrants were stealing Russian jobs. It is similar to the nazi allegations on Jews who supposedly stole their jobs. The work in question is full of prejudicial generalizations. As can be seen, this supposed resettlement was added in Nakhichavan, and as documented by Fedayee, in Caucasian Campagn, and now Shushi. But it doesn't end up as we'll see.


 * Grandmaster reintroduces the same stuff. Can someone tell me what’s the damn relevance of the Erivan town’s statistics in Nakhichevan article? The town had only 29,000 people. Is it really relevant to dump those statistics in every single article?


 * Here he reverts me when I tell him that I won't revert war with him and explain to him that it’s a community. Grandmaster is using the census from records collected in 1896 to assume that it’s the population in the beginning of the 20th century. He must've forgotten the refugee crisis after the Hamidian massacre when a considerable number of Armenians found refuge in the region, including Nakhichevan. He is interpreting and twisting sources the way it pleases him, and he is not willing to listen.


 * Modifies the consensus version even agreed by him, by adding again the useless Erivan town statistic in Nakhichevan.


 * Re-adds it back


 * Check his summary and Raffi's summary Damn-it, it's Nakhichevan, he didn't even allow any information about the Armenians’ historic relationship to Nakhichevan and he is using the page to talk about Erivan statistics.


 * And again


 * Re-add his assumptions


 * Re-adds the assumption that Russians had their purposes in changing the demographics. All fixed on the alleged artificial Armenian state built on Azerbaijani land.


 * Here GM places it as allegations, and at two different places he reminds that the Azerbaijani government denies allegations. I don't get it, why does he need to tell it twice?


 * There are many things on Nagorno Karabakh. Here’s one example. He claims restoring deleted information but removes the text which says that PACE resolution 1416 does not say Nagorno Karabakh as being part of Azerbaijan.


 * This sort of irrelevancy added is generalized on Grandmasters conduct. Using the Nagrno Karabakh article to include a long list of Armenian arm deal etc. It is typical with him to then report someone who deletes his irrelevancies by distorting the actual event.


 * Doesn't listen, adds it back


 * Reverts compromise version and still persists in turning the page into a political subject on Armenia's arm deals.


 * Again


 * Keeps doing it. I thought that the information which says that there was a dispute on the main page was important. Isn't it?


 * He does it again. Check in the entire process, while he claims to stop deleting, he deletes himself.


 * Eupator makes yet another compromise, which is removed by Grandmaster. Logically the local reality goes before. This is the case on other similar articles.


 * Check his revert here. Someone attempts to add the information that Azerbaijanis are also descendants of Turkic tribes (which is obvious) he removes it leaving the Albanian ancestry alone. The goal is to claim a relationship with the place rather than with Turkic tribes, which no one denies.


 * Re-switches it back


 * Again, just check his version... Not only is it not switched, not only does it say de facto, but he even adds self-proclaimed. It's almost as if he didn't add so-called also.


 * Check this out. Grandmaster removes the fact request on it being called a genocide.


 * Another example I am just giving a few examples of his claim of POV to delete contain rather than neutralizing.


 * Check how he is washing the pogrom down.


 * Removes historically and claims it is better to avoid such words. Why? Even Grandmaster could not deny that.


 * Restores the neutrality tag of the Armenian Genocide article, this is basically the same person who removed it from Khojali massacre.


 * Remove Cyprus threats to recognize NK. He claims it irrelevent. While he'll add irrelevencues such as Erivan statistics in Nakhichevan article.


 * Removes why Russian records were showing a larger Muslim population. I'd believe that land delimitations, when not the same, should be clarified when dumping statistics all over the place.


 * Re-includes the genocide term in the intro, and adds mostly to make it as neutral, while only some politically motivated Azerbaijani ultra-nationalist sources claim it to be a genocide. Read Eupator’s interesting analogy.


 * Here he misleads and adds a declaration claiming various members from various countries. The declaration was prepared by a Turkish member a day after a declaration of the Armenian Genocide as a countermeasure. Most from the few couple of people who signed it were either Azerbaijani representatives or representatives of Turkey. From the way he place that it appears as some kind of official declaration.


 * Revert attempt to add the tag for the obvious non-neutral text.


 * Removes it again and requires explanation when the talk page is upside-down. Is this not a good enough justification?


 * Grandmaster removes again while Eupator is asking him to see talk.


 * Again


 * Again, calls it malicious.


 * Removes it again


 * Again. The funniest part is that he added it on the Armenian Genocide article while he never even wrote anything in its talk page.


 * Ironically adds the tag elsewhere


 * Removes again


 * But adds it here


 * And removes it here


 * Adds Armenian sources, when google search shows it used in Azerbaijani and Turkish sources too.


 * Removes other languages. Nakhichevan is an etymologically Armenian name; many encyclopedia's include the Armenian name, including Iranica and Britannica.


 * Removes again rather than neutralizing


 * Removes the Armenian name again. He successfully prevented any mention on the words etymology and Armenian relation with the place. Even the name appears too much for him.


 * Again, intimidates again with the reminder sounding like: hehe, its your last edit, don't forget.


 * Removes the Armenian name from another article which has nothing to do with Azerbaijan.


 * He retaliates by adding the Turkish name and say: I’m going to add Azeri names for Armenian territories. Don’t even try to revert.


 * Accuses Raffi of vandalism and threaten to report.


 * Adds the POV tag on the Armenian Duduk section. It’s a musical instrument. Of course, according to him, nothing is Armenian. I am just wondering what had ever been Armenian for Grandmaster. One day I shall ask him...


 * A section of Iran which he calls Southern Azerbaijan as an also known. This was the first disruption by Grandmaster which will be answered very harshly by me I think. Ironnically it has nothing to do with Armenians.


 * Again South Azerbaijan


 * Grandmaster reverts clarification of its history. Those who know the region know how he distorts sources; this has to be covered independently. The thing is that he could have neutralised it.


 * Does it again


 * Again


 * Check here what he re-add pay attention how all this trash is not sourced. Reinterpretation of sources, distortions, half-truth... unfortunately the arbitrators, probably not knowing much about the topic, would not see how he distorts.


 * Again


 * Reverts a finally added disputed tag], anyone who remotely know the history of that place knows why the tag has been added.


 * Check this out He was explained by me time and again that Kars, Nakhichevan etc., have etymological Armenian value. It is included in encyclopedias, it is relevent. While the current Azerbaijani alphabet was invented when the lands that Grandmaster wants to add Azerbaijani name were already part of Armenia. Is it our fault that the Armenian alphabet existed over a millennium ago and that various places have etymologically Armenian names? Grandmaster is comparing apples to oranges.


 * Here he retaliates by adding the Azerbaijan name for Yerevan Khanate. This sort of thing was followed with very intense discussions between I and Grandmaster. Grandmaster won't remove the obvious. The point is that The Yerevan Khanate is part of the current republic of Armenia, and while it existed the Azerbaijan alphabet did not exist. Grandmaster is including an irrelevant alphabet which is neither justified by etymology or 'territorially.' There is not a single encyclopedia in the world that would do that. Even his most cited encyclopedia Irannica mentions Armenian terms while excluding Azerbaijani.


 * With those disruptions after angering me with such blatant POV pushing, which will be used by Cool Cat to fill a request for comment on him, Grandmaster will gently include his input. He distorted the entire conflict. I am not even including the talk pages discussions where Grandmaster will distort sources, and even lie at times.


 * Here’s another example; it is as if Azeri Turkish identity was defined during those periods...


 * Check this out. Grandmaster even claims he had enough ground to interpret my opinions as POV push (how, I was discussing while he was edit warring and pushing his positions in the mainspace). Opinions about him for exemple requesting the Armenian presence to be included in the Nakhichevan article. Or claiming why Southern Azerbaijan can not be used as an also known for northern Iran. Or the difference between an etymologically justified word, and a modern word not used during the period covered. This is the sort of things I have attempted for a long time teaching Grandmaster.


 * Check the irony, he reverts Eupator by claiming Iran is a recent name. Funny, since Azeri to refer to the Azerbaijan's Turkic-speaking people is also recent.


 * Fine, Grandmaster is allergic to the word Armenian, someone attempted then to add Christian. This too was too much for Grandmaster. He removed it claiming that the Khanate was predominantly Muslim at the time. This isn't true, at the beginning of his ruling the majority were Armenians, I already supported this (in the talk page of another article) by providing sources, then Grandmaster by the help of original research, speculation, distortion turned it around, so the talkpages would be filled with various materials one after the other to find Grandmaster distorting them and justify their exclusions. Here again, any mentions to Armenians for Grandmaster is a nono, not only does he exclude it from lands now part of Azerbaijan, but even those now part of Armenia. Armenians must've been aliens coming from another planet.


 * Check what Grandmaster answered me after I provided examples of POV pushing and requested Grandmaster to do the same. He refers to Nakhichevan, where I was attempting to incorporate information about the Armenians. But since Grandmaster assumed ownership, it’s mission impossible.


 * The Armenians presence receives another slap, majority Azerbaijani. Of course, no statistics, no references on the constitution of Muslim population, not to say the population just when the Khan took control, since he removed not even Armenian, as even the word Christian was too much for him.


 * This has caused many problem I am not covering Nagorno Karabakh very much, but this is an example... the misleading notion that Armenia asked the transfer, when it was recognized as being part of it, before granting it to Azerbaijan. Any logical person will claim the presented request as return, but for Grandmaster any explicit reference to that was just too much. He will rather refer a document which used Narimanov (Azerbaijani representative) wordings.


 * Here he removes the historic relation of NK to Armenians.


 * Decreases Armenian death toll, and changes the source with more reliable as he'll claim. The source itself is not more reliable. But I won't waste my time to go there.


 * Here he reverts me to add the tag, I think it is relevant to read my summary. Grandmaster disagrees with the event this is why he added the tag, not on wherever or not this is said about the event.


 * Check this out add separatist, not once twice.


 * Here he removes any information on the de-facto nature of NK, and on Shushi. He removes the info on the massacre, which in the article is presented as some two sided clash. We'll come to this later.


 * Removes Khoikhoi attempting to add it back


 * Removes mention of Armenians being majority before Abbas deported them. Nakhichevan is placed right in Armenia in every single map of the time. Grandmaster required 'proof' that those living in Armenia were majority Armenians before Shah Abbas deported them, while the large majority of sources only mentions Armenians.


 * Check this out, he fought with all his energy to make the Khachkar destruction condemned by organizations such as the American Archeological Society, or the EU parlement, here the said supposed Azerbaijani monuments destruction is presented as fact, he removes alleged.


 * Check this out too, again the Abbas stuff. They have spent considerable energy writing in countless numbers of articles on how Armenians resettled in Armenia, which was presented not as their native place. They have attempted removing any mention of Armenian presence. Yet, the deportation of Shah Abbas from Armenia is presented as just some indiscriminate relocation. While Armenians were clearly settled permanently, and prevented from leaving. Also check how he adds ‘alleged’ for the destruction of Khachkars and how he removes ‘alleged’ on the destruction of Azerbaijani monuments.


 * 5587 Check how GM continue], after passing this as if Armenians were just some of the population, and that just like the rest they leave, he provides the references which only talk about the wartime measure. My intense discussion in the talkpage was concerning the differences, Armenians not permitted to return back. I will cover his dismissal of dozens of sources, their distortions, and then his picking of sources which only supports his position.


 * Removes an attempt for clarification by claiming that it was never part of Armenia. Azerbaijan actually recognized it as part of Armenia, not to say it was part of Russian Armenia, before being transferred to Azerbaijan. This could practically be considered as general knowledge. But any mention of its Armenian past, Grandmaster attempted to censure it.


 * Here removes an attempt for clarification on the fact that Karabakh was made part of Azerbaijan. But again, Grandmaster will be removing any clarification leading readers to assume.


 * Answers back to clarification and in the process literally fabricates a population exchange. There never was such population exchange policy.


 * Here he misinterprets British temporary decision taken without the rest of the allies, as allies to make it more official.


 * Grandmaster reverts me when I provided, believe it or not a dozen of sources to support this little part. Which for Grandmaster is absolutely not. His one De Waal who he quotes as sole source in countless numbers of articles is enough, but when I provide dozen of sources it is not up to Grandmaster standard for a single statement. This is the other thing on Nakhichevan was the second time I lost control on Grandmaster who will be dismissing the sources by twisting them and providing one or two sources and reinterpreting it to then justify ignoring the bunch provided. (I will provide diff of the talkpages later)


 * Reverts again any attempt to clarify The thing is that Grandmaster is well aware that Armenians were resettled permanently, what he is pushing is only the initial deportation of the whole population refusing clarification that for the Armenians it was permanent.


 * Here he meatpuppets for Adil, now pushing on Tigran ethnicity. (of course nothing is Armenian)


 * Meatpuppet again.


 * Reverts again the clarification


 * Here he re-add the term massive, misleading totally. And remove the back word to clarify that Armenians from Persia and parts from Ottoman were indeed returning back. If there was no Armenian there, I wonder why it was called Armenia..., and what are those monuments dating over a millennium with Armenian engraving going there.


 * Here Grandmaster supports, by his edit, Adil's distortion of Nakhichevan being in Azerbaijan. Not only was this word (Azerbaijan) never even used during that period, but to even believe that Grandmaster will support that Nakhichevan right on the Armenian plateau near Ararat can have any relevancy there. Amazing, really.


 * Here he goes further by allegedly adding a source which support a Seljuk ruler of Azerbaijan, check the source and search for the word Azerbaijan neither there is anything about Nakhichevan. And this is Grandmaster who talks about distorting sources. Out of anyone, including Atabek, he is the one who mostly distorted sources. This will become clear when I document his distortions coming from the talkpages.


 * From this discussion, where Atabek misquotes, and from the distortion reported by Fedayee on Hopkirk's usage of the word genocide we can conclude that Atabek purposely distorted sources and misquoted them to fit his position. I will not provide any more evidences, given that Atabek did not change his position after the clarification shows that he edited on bad faith in both articles. My sandbox is available and I will update it each time Fadix sends me new material, everyone is welcome.