User:Dbiel/ScratchPad/CityTemplate

Definitions needed
It seem that we need a better definition of terms used in this template. The ones currently giving me and several other users problems are:
 * Total =
 * metro =
 * urban =

Note: these terms are used related to a number of different variables (population, land, density)

Normal thinking would yield a formula that would look like: Metro + Urban = Total.

But the example would not support this formula as Metro is greater than the Total.

A clear definition of terms would be very helpful Dbiel (Talk) 01:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I hope I can clear some of this up...some. Total, as in area_total_sq_mi is simply the area (in this case square miles) of all the land plus all the water.  In the case of population_total, it is the total population of the settlement "proper" &mdash;for example the city of Detroit.  For the "total" fields, the label will change depending on what is typed in the settlement_type field.  If nothing is typed, the default is city; as shown in the infobox for your hometown.  The field population_metro would be the population of the entire metropolatian area (usually defined by some government agency)&mdash;for example Metro Detroit.  The article Urban area gives various definitions for urban area which may help explain that.  The metro and urban fields are normally filled in with some type of reference.  How's that? &mdash;MJCdetroit 01:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Your input does help some but remain problematic expecially in Southern California. You have clearly defined "Total" and the defination of Metro is clear as to including (when speaking about cities) not only the city itself but also the greater metropolitan area it is considered a part of.  But Urban is still undefined as to what it is in reference to, that is the urban area of the city itself or the urban part of the metropoliltan area to which the city belongs.


 * To summarize a bit: all cities within a single metropolitan area such as Los Angeles or San Diego would have the exact same totals for all metro entries. Their individual total entries would vary based on the recorded totals for the city itself, excluding any surrounding metro areas.  In Southern California, most cities would be considered 100% urban and I am unsure if one could define a finite urban area that would contain and surround individual cities.


 * I would have thought that a narrower definition of metro and urban would have been more useful when dealing with settlements / cities. Being useful in measuring the difference between rural and urban areas contain within the city/settlement as opposed to the greater area to which the city/settlement was a part of. Dbiel (Talk) 03:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The most common way of using the urban area entry is to put in the statistics for the urban area (defined officially by some countries) to which the city in question belongs to. In most cases, this would be larger than the city proper (both population-wise and area-wise). In the U.S., the core of each metropolitan area is the so-called urbanized area. A list of U.S. urban areas can be found here. However, seeing the issue with the San Diego suburbs, I would also point out that the urban area and metro area statistics are typically only placed on the central city and not the suburbs. --Polaron | Talk 03:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Edit Conflict...Perhaps, the definition at List of United States urban areas may help a little. &mdash;MJCdetroit 03:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC) Pol said the same thing I did but better...03:23, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Polaron's statement is much closer to the definition I was looking for and I think should be added as a definition to the template itself. That being, metro and urban entries should be left blank when the settlement / city is consider a suburb of the metropolitan area and should only be included in the central city entry. Of course, someone else should be able to word this much better than I have. Thanks again for the replies Dbiel (Talk) 03:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I can see an arguement for including the metro area and metro population for a suburb. That being that the suburb itself does not have a metro area, but that the suburb is part of a metro area. Just playing the other side the coin. &mdash;MJCdetroit 04:20, 31 May 2007 (UTC)