User:Dcclark/Archive 2

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 Archives from 31-August-2006 to 14-September-2008

si si senor
i is very very sorry i offend great american man with your great iraqi war without weapons of mass destructione brotha! I just think that when i was in houghton i saw many many prostitutes that like to eat cucumber me like it. I hope great americaman that lost in vietnam not offended. Me no speak good english and me is not cool like greatamericaman david. But David Clark don't be mad you great man we can be friends! then you can steal me oil like you do in da iraq! Thank you great americaman for making my summer warm with your great greenhouse effect! See you at econofoods or da dairy queen behind pizza hut und taco bell someday maybe!

Michigan
Ok dokey: I'm reverting on sight, rather than putting too much research in, for obvious reasons! I welcome corrections like this. 84.9.83.105 01:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

cheers to the si si senor guy!!!
i agree with you fully man--Sugar!!! 20:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. -- dcclark (talk) 20:52, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Sugar!!! is a 14 year old girl knows nothing about what's going on in the world being brainwashed by the Anti-American media. She is referring to the moron who posted above in his pretend broken English. Jjmillerhistorian 16:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have the most interesting talk page! :P -- dcclark (talk) 17:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Douglass Houghton
Some pretty vague comments. Why not simply do what you want, rather than letting the article sit there with your tag?
 * Wow, I had totally forgotten about that tag (it was many months ago). Thanks for the reminder. -- dcclark (talk) 16:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Moving Lansing to Central Michigan
Hi,

You wrote: "Why not just be bold and move Lansing in the articles, instead of going around adding the "dubious" templates? -- dcclark (talk) 01:07, 14 February 2007 (UTC)"

Just trying to generate discussion on the subject. Nobody seems interested but for you (thanks!). Did not intend to leave the "dubious" templates there for long, but didn't wish to do a lot of editing that would be wasted if there was great disagreement. Sometime in the near future when I get the time, I'll do what you suggest. Do you have any thoughts on the broader question of the issue of these "regions" being subjective, unsupported by citations, and possibly amounting to "original research" that perhaps they do not belong in Wikipedia (I recognize your good faith effort here and am not trying to detract from that. I assume that the thought never crossed your mind). I do not have a fully-formed opinion on that myself yet but would be interested in your opinion. Thanks. --TRosenbaum 06:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Good, I don't have a real objection to moving Lansing, so feel free. There is a strange problem here: the regions are very real (look at the number of businesses, newspapers, TV stations, etc. that serve "Mid-Michigan" or "Western Michigan"), but the borders always seem to be slightly different. Another example of this is my current home, the Keweenaw Peninsula. It's a very real geographic feature, but where exactly is the "edge" of the Keweenaw? Is Baraga in it? That's up for debate. I'm sure everyone can agree that Alma is in Mid-Michigan, but Lansing is enough on the border to cause disputes. In my opinion, the best thing to do is to note in each of the "Region" articles that the borders are ill-defined, and to cite media sources which use the names (for example, there is a radio/TV service region defined as "Mid-Michigan"). Thanks for caring about this! :) -- dcclark (talk) 15:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok. I agree that these regions do exist. The borders are somewhat fuzzy. Maybe I'll build a template for a box that notes this issue to add to the "region" articles. I feel like I'm pretty much in the Keweenaw after I've stopped at the Hilltop for Cinnamon rolls when I'm headed your way. I guess that almost includes L'Anse and probably does include Baraga. I can't really say where the "edge" is though. Can I still get a good pasty there? Finlandia or Kaleva? or ?? :) --TRosenbaum 17:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, check out the Lower Peninsula of Michigan article for more details... it talks about some of the criteria used to differentiate regions. Could be good to add details of those differences into each region article. And yeah, I usually think of being in the Keweenaw once I've rounded the big bend on 41 at the end of Keweenaw Bay. I think the map here on WP shows it not extending much below Houghton though! And Toni's in Calumet still has the best pasties. Kaleva is under new management. :( -- dcclark (talk) 17:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: WPFS
Sorry for being late in responding. At the time that these were tagged, the existent method for article tagging for WPFS was to tag the article itself, not the talk page. It has, however, since been changed. Thanks! Geekman314(contact me) 13:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The edits you restored are down right wrong. I was in the process of revising my edits when you saved over them.

Keweenaw Peninsula
We could go through the version you restored line by line, but quickly, no locals I know call the Keweenaw "Copper Island." And the Portage Canal, or Portage Lake is NOT a river, and never was a river. It is a connecting body of water of Lake Superior. Since Lake Superior supplies the vast majority of water for the canal, you explain how that is a river? Maybe it's a river that flows backwards, and is the only "river" like it on the planet. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by YooperSnowMan (talk • contribs).


 * I reverted mainly because of the IPA mistake (the previous pronunciation was actual IPA, your change was not). In addition, there are a many uses of "Copper Island" in the area. See the list of examples at Copper Island, such as two past newspapers and the Copper Island Classic. It's not the most commonly used name, certainly, but it is in use. The Portage Canal is the dredged form of a stream which previously cut across the peninsula (citing, for example, Clarence Monette's local history series). See also the page for Keweenaw Waterway. -- dcclark (talk) 20:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I have read the links you suggested.

In terms of the Indians using the western portion of the canal's "stream" is somewhat dubious. Using Mr. Monette as a definitive source is a risky business. While I don't have a problem with his publications overall, they often rely on vague recollections of what may or may not have happened.

I have read several items over the years which indicated that the waterway was dug through solid, albeit "swampy" earth. I cannot cite them, but I will look. And I'll make a point of asking some geologists that live in the area.

In looking for a citation on whether it was solid ground, a stream, or a swamp, I found a link, which I posted on the page. It doesn't really provide the answer, but there are clues.

Anyway, overall I don't really have good citations one way or another, so I left your most recent post pretty much as it was, except for minor corrections.

Hello DC clark there is a problem of vandalism in the page ucimed however i dont know how to report the vandal or stop the changes. thanks

Keweenaw - Copper Island - Quincy Smelter
Just a question, a student of mine posted some info on the Quincy Smelter. She has spent the past month researching it. Can you give me the reason it was removed, wholesale? I am curious.

Also, as an FYI, many of the old Finns up here do call the peninsula the Copper Island. Additionally, many of the people who called it that never left it. If you look at some of the obituaries from the old timers, some will proudly mention that the person never travelled south of the bridge, never leaving the Copper Island. They didn't mean the Mighty Mac; they meant the Lift Bridge. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kwdragon (talk • contribs) 18:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC).


 * I removed the item from the Quincy Mine article for two reasons (as I stated in the talk page): one, the language sounded very much like a copyright violation, although based on your comment that's not the case. Two, the paragraph duplicated much information already in the article. It added some new information as well, but that info needs to be added to the appropriate parts of the article, not just added in a large block at the end.


 * For Copper Island -- I recall some problems with that article in the past, but I definitely agree that it's considered an island and referred to by people up here as such. The comments above consist mainly of me defending the use of "Copper Island" in the article. :) Some other users didn't seem to believe that, and so we need to be able to cite some reliable sources.


 * Hope this helps. I would very much encourage your student to add his/her information back in, but paying attention to not duplicating information and fitting the new information into the article. Reply to me here if you have any questions! -- dcclark (talk) 19:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The Cornwall England thing
That wasn't me. I was editing the article to change the text at the top that said the article was about 'Cornish Pasty'. The guy you're after is Jellery--Jcvamp 02:23, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

MTU
Thanks for the note! The Masters and PHD program is what they advertise on the website. To my knowledge no one is enrolled in either and they are not accepting applications for either as MTU has no Mining Profs left, Richard Gertsch was the last and he passed away in the Fall of 2005, and his last grad student left MTU in 2006. The minor program is being run by Murray Gillis and has a few students, however the funding for the program is almost non-existant. This is a big issue with many of us Mining Alumni.

Cheers! Joe Djoeyd114 23:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Copper Country
'Copper mining was not prevalent after the 60's' I think you maybe mistaken. Production rates at the White pine mine continued, this rate was significantly higher than those of the hard rock mines. Add to this the large scale exploration efforts of Homestake Copper Co, and their reopening of Centennial in the 1970's as well as the reopening of Centennial in the 1980's and the dewatering of the King Philips in the 1980's. There was also a development project initiated at the 543S sulfide deposit. This activity is nearly equal to that of the efforts of C&H near the end, as they barely had Centennial in production, Kingston's production was slowing and Osceola was in the process of upgrading their infrastructure underground. Djoeyd114 17:56, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Certainly mines were open, but the level of activity was nowhere near they normal level during the "mining days." It is very misleading to say that mining was a prevalent industry from 1846 - 1995, as it ceased any real relevance when the major mines closed, and had a long downhill slide before that (starting with the Great Depression). Hence changing the ending date -- there were mines, but they were barely functional during or after the 1960's. I would say that C&H towards the end should not be used as a measure of activity, as it was, indeed, the end. Look at population numbers as well, for some support. I've added back a note that mining continued until 1995. -- dcclark (talk)


 * The point is the level of activity was as much if not more. White pine had just started in the 1950s/1960s and had not reached its peak production of somewhere in the ball park of 30,000 tons per day.  It was the largest underground mine in the world until San Manuel came online, and then it was second.  Its production rate is leaps and bounds above what most underground mines produce today even.  If you look at tons of copper produced, the White Pine produced 15 times more than the average production of the Oscola mine, so the 1960's was hardly the end.  The population argument is invalid from the standpoint that white pine was a modern mine, the older C&H mines were using 1930's technology for the most part, Production rates increased due to more productive methods, utilizing fewer workers.  Additionally Homestake had Centennial up to the same production rates as C&H, hardly 'barely functional'.Djoeyd114 19:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The current phrasing is good. I still think that one functional mine is not a sign of mining being a strong factor in the area, but as it stands the article is clear enough. -- dcclark (talk) 22:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree on the phrasing. Cheers Djoeyd114 23:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Tourism in metropolitan Detroit
Please take a look at Articles for deletion/, you may want to have some input. Thanks Thomas Paine1776 21:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Pixie Screenshot.png)
Thanks for uploading Image:Pixie Screenshot.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Concerned about your UP edits
As a GTI at MTU, I have my students research Copper Country history. As part of the assignment, I also have them place some of their research on an appropriate Wikipedia entry. In the past, during other semesters, you have edited or deleted information that they found through diligent research in the MTU Archives and Copper Country Historical Collection or by combing through local records. While I admit that some of the entries aren't perfect, and sometimes deserve to be edited or removed, which we address in class, I have also found that you make some assumptions that are incorrect. If I recall correctly, you do not (or no longer) live in the area. We may be a distance away, but we are close to our history. Perhaps you should give us the benefit of the doubt on a close call. And yes, some people here in the Keweenaw, usually non-locals, do refer to the pasty as a "Yooper burrito," which might be a nod to its Mexican history, but is most likely just a nickname. There is no citation available for colloquialisms- just those of us who actually live here. Also, although I cannot put my finger on the exact year, the State of Michigan archives houses a record of a senate debate on the decision about the state capital, and the Senator from Jackson voicing strong opposition to allowing the capital to be in Calumet because Calumet already controlled much of the state with its copper money. Sometimes local legend is fact, and if citations are difficult to come by, you must forgive us for being unable to take the time and make the journey to scour public records for Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.26.87 (talk) 04:23, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello -- thanks for your message. First, you seem to be talking about a few things unrelated to me (for example, the State of Michigan Capitol debate -- I don't believe I took part in that whole debate, although I certainly watched it with amusement. Nobody has ever provided any hard evidence about the vote, and I'd really like to see it -- I think it does exist too). You may wish to contact the other editors involved with that. As the information which your students have added -- I greatly appreciate the time and effort that goes into careful research in the Historical Collection, and I think that that's an excellent lesson to use. However, the items that I believe you are referring to have been added with no sources. Students who have done careful research papers will have those sources available, and they should add them at the time. If they have them, please have them re-add the material with even a simple source (such as ). In addition, the material is frequently poorly written and sounds very much like spam or trolling.


 * I'm not certain which edits you are referring to, but there are several edits which I've reverted which took an unnecessarily adversarial or otherwise insulting tone (for example, recent edits to Italian Hall Disaster). While the data may have been correct, the combined effect -- no source and insulting tone -- helped convince me (and others) that it should be removed.


 * As for colloquialisms, I have indeed lived in the area for many years, and things such as the "yooper burrito" have never passed my ears. Thus the nature of the edit (very unlikely sounding, unsourced, made by an anonymous user) also led me to believe that it was spam and/or vandalism. Maybe it is commonly used and I simply have missed it. Maybe it is only used among a very small set of people. We each bring our own experiences to Wikipedia, and I feel confident enough in my experiences to remove such items which sound nonsensical to me.


 * The upshot of all this is: I'm sorry if I have reverted good material which you and your students have added, but that material has been presented in a way which is almost designed to make other editors skeptical of it. Articles like Upper Peninsula of Michigan and Pasty are frequently vandalized, and most of us are bold about removing questionable material. Feel free to be bold in adding it back -- just do so in a manner which shows its worth (sources, adding to an appropriate location within the article, encyclopedic grammar and tone).


 * Thanks, -- dcclark (talk) 14:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. First of all, my students had nothing to do with any ongoing "Italian Hall" debate, and I was unaware there was one. My students were also not involved with the state capital debate, but I felt it was worth mentioning. We cannot know what is a "hot topic" or a highly vandalized entry.

Second, how should we cite colloquialisms? Yes, I have heard the term "Yooper Burrito" used, mostly by Tech students. I think that makes it a valid reference, as it shows how outsiders might perceive the humble Cornish pasty. Still, how would you want that cited?

So, yes, in following with your comments, if I see something removed that I think should be re-added, I will do so. I ask my students to include relevant citations, but some of the things you are asking to have cited are difficult. For instance, when a student cites an interview, that interview information is also given to the MTU Archives precisely so it can be referenced by other scholars in the future. I would think that Wikipedia would be interested in this information as it is relevant and hard to come by if you are not in the area.

We are all trying to add to the body of knowledge, not with highly-controversial opinions, but with carefully researched facts - the logos of our research, the ethos of our presence here in the Copper Country. Although my students are not always the smoothest of writers, their intentions and information are good. I would think that smoothing out the rough transitions would be better than eliminating them completely. I realize it takes a little more effort, and I have tried to help with that, but isn't good information available to a wide range of people the goal to which we are all striving? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwdragon (talk • contribs) 17:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Kwdragon -- thanks for the reply. Apparently you and I are talking about different edits (other than the "Yooper Burrito" item), so I mostly don't know which edits you're talking about. Could you mention which articles please?


 * Back to the Yooper Burrito -- I guess we just have different experiences. I have no clue how to settle that, except to write the additional information in a reasonably encyclopedic manner. On that topic -- the point I made about phrasing (and sounding unprofessional) is that the language used in the edits added to the overall effect, which was: this is spam and/or vandalism, as opposed to a legitimate edit. That's why many of your edits were (most likely) removed my myself and others. You may want to get the opinions of other editors on this too.


 * You mention adding information to the archives -- go ahead and cite that! That's exactly what I'm encouraging you to do -- if there is a place to cite the information, do so. I'm not sure where our messages got crossed there.


 * One last thing -- type four tildes ( ~ ) to sign your edits automatically. That'll keep SineBot from having to come past my talk page all the time. :) -- dcclark (talk) 19:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Michigan Tech Seal.jpg)
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Copper mining in Michigan
Thanks for your contributions to Copper mining in Michigan. It's a definite improvement. I may make a couple of minor wording changes. One small question, though: you mention mansions built by "very wealthy mine owners." I wasn't aware that many mine owners lived in the area. Most major mines were owned and controlled in Boston. Were the mansions perhaps built and owned instead by mine managers? Thanks. Plazak (talk) 18:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Good point. Mine managers or site managers were the wealthy ones -- I'll change that. -- dcclark (talk) 19:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Good job finding a reference for that item. I'm not familiar with the book; does it have a date and publisher? Plazak (talk) 17:20, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yup, and I've added them to the citation. It's also partially viewable through Google Books. -- dcclark (talk) 17:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Greetings -- I was going to add a new comment on both of your pages, but as my query is related to Copper mining in Michigan, I thought I'd add it here. Is there any existing article with more general information about the strike of 1913-1914? I came across a passing reference to it while expanding Aura, Michigan (still in progress). I did a quick google search and it seems to have been a fairly big deal. I think the Italian Hall disaster occurred during this strike. I don't have time to research it further to write something up at the moment, but here are some links I found:     Cheers. older ≠ wiser 15:13, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * To the best of my knowledge, there is no WP article about the 1913-14 strike. The Italian Hall Disaster has a lot of information, but certainly it is not as in-depth as it could be. (And yes, the disaster was directly related to the strike and happened in December 1913.) I think it would be a great topic for a new article. However, it will probably be vandal-prone -- even the book published just a few years ago is still enormously controversial in this area! I would be willing to work on such an article, but I have very little Wikipedia time lately. Would you be willing to get it started, and I could fill it in? -- dcclark (talk) 16:27, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * On further reflection, and looking at the thermometer today (hot!), I think I'll get a start on this anyway. :) -- dcclark (talk) 16:34, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * And here it is: Copper Country Strike of 1913-1914. What do you think of the name? -- dcclark (talk) 18:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * What an excellent beginning. Thanks. The name seems OK to me. I don't have much experience with these sorts of articles. older ≠ wiser 18:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Please check out my list of desired expansions on Talk:Copper Country Strike of 1913-1914 -- there is plenty to be added still. -- dcclark (talk) 18:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Strike article looks good. Nice addition to Wikipedia's coverage of the Copper Country.  Plazak (talk) 13:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Please check out my list of needed expansions on the talk page too. -- dcclark (talk) 16:12, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

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DYK!

 * Awesome! -- dcclark (talk) 14:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)