User:Deco Da Man/LessonsLearnt

This page contains some of the the lessons I have learnt on wikipedia. I hope others take time to review these:

Sock puppetry incident... This was the first time I was ever blocked, and hopefully the only. If it wasn't for Yksin's help, I would've still be blocked indef.. {| class="wikitable"
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Sockpuppetry case
You have been accused of sockpuppetry. Please refer to Suspected sock puppets/Deco Da Man for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with notes for the suspect before editing the evidence page. – N96 02:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You were just hit by an autoblock on a suspected sockpuppet of yours. I've blocked you indef.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 03:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

My Appeal
- to block review admins: an established editor has asked me to intervene in this case. I just popped in here for a second (6 am here :) ) so can you possibly hold off for a few hours until I review this case later this morning? See my talk page for details. Thanks :) - A l is o n  ☺ 12:46, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * ??? Weird... I made a change here and it disappeared! Well anyway, here is what was:
 * Sure! Thank you, Alison. I look forward to talking to you soon.

Thanks, Deco Da Man 12:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC).

To block review admins: I'm the established editor Alison is referring to. Please also note my comments on this case above (between the block info and Deco Da Man's appeal) which I had written last night in support of Deco Da Man, but which he moved for his own archival purposes I guess. Thanks. --Yksin 15:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Update: I've moved my comments from last night back down below so it's easier not to miss them because they follow in a more logical order; my comments when I wrote them originally were right under Deco's explanation under "My appeal" above -- & have also changed subheader levels. --Yksin 15:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

My Appeal Talk
Comment to admins from a bystander: I have only "known" Deco Da Man for a couple of days based on a problematic edit he made to an article I've done a lot of work on (see my message to him above about being careful about placing speedy delete tags, & his reply to me on my talk page. I did quite a bit of research on Deco Da Man's edit history before I wrote to him, & I found no reason to disbelieve any of his presentations of himself: he is a 13 year old kid from Australia who is a relative newbie to Wikipedia, has acquainted himself more with fiddling around with his own user pages than with edits out in the big wide realm of Wikipedia & does not seem well-acquainted with Wikipedia policies (which frankly, Deco Da Man, I think you might want to pay some attention to), but at the same time is good-willed & willing to learn from his mistakes. You also might note that his presentations of himself on his main user page were backed up by other information out on the net. For example, a Google search on his real name or on his nom de guerre of Deco Da Man will turn up pages that back up his claims. This is basically a smart kid who probably knows more about computers than I do, even though I work with them all day, but is perhaps a bit lazy about learning about policies & proper deletion prodding, etc.

I was suprised to find him accused of sockpuppetry. On looking at the edits between him, Josh Da Man, & Chingyhayden -- even before reading his explanation above -- I theorized exactly what he claims to have happened: kids engaging in typical kid behavior that in fact was of no harm to anyone. This looks to me rather like a case of forgetting the principle of "be kind to newbies", assume good faith, etc., and seems a case rather of overreaction to simple kid exploration of this community. Again, no harm was done, & there certainly were very few edits to result in such a consequence as indefinite blocking. So basically... I guess you could say I'm an adult (47) editor who has lived with a 13-year old kid, & I'm speaking up to ask you to give this one a break. Regards. --Yksin 08:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Another comment to add: given the patience which all Wikipedians are asked to exercise in cases of even very blatant & disruptive vandalism, with levels of user warnings etc., the swiftness with which these kids were hit with indef blocks on the basis of very few edits & very little warning was pretty darn devastating. And unduly harsh.  And also, thank goodness,  pretty unusual. Particularly after seeing the patience with which a couple of admins dealt with a disruptive editor earlier today... I'm pretty appalled at the harshness exercised here. --Yksin 08:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Once again Yksin, I thank you dearly for your support.
 * Thank you for your support Yksin! I believe some admins have had run ins with too many vandels/other abuses and have forgettern to give people a chance. It's not like I've deleted the main page or anything! And even if I was a sock puppeteer (Which I'm not saying I am), all I did was put a 'slightly' inappropriate comment on someone's barely used user page.

Thank you, Deco Da Man 08:47, 14 June 2007 (UTC).


 * Well, you should note, Deco, that your friend Josh Da Man's brief activity before being blocked included two instances of page blanking (one of Chingyhayden's page, & one belonging to Jimbo Wales, which is a highly visible & watched page because Jimbo Wales is WP's founder. Not real smart.


 * However, Josh Da Man received only one warning for his edits, & no final or last warnings as is usual Wikipedia policy -- see Template messages/User talk namespace and related pages about how vandalism is handled -- before an admin made the snap judgment that Josh Da Man's was a vandalism-only account & put an indef block on him. I know from experience that had I reported Josh Da Man's account to WP:AIV when there was only one low-level warning on his page, that admins would not have intervened on the grounds that he hadn't received a last or final warning. So I'd say the admin in that case blew it.


 * This isn't to say that you and your friends aren't responsible, like every other one of us, to acquaint yourself with Wikipedia policies, especially when it gets into editing other people's user pages. That's generally a no no. Editing people's talk pages -- that's okay, if you are remaining civil -- & you also need to understand that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a message board, so if you want to have conversations with your friends via computer about stuff other than how to improve this encyclopedia that we're all here to work on, best to use a real message board or an IM chat. If you want to experiment, as the three of you were doing on Chingyhayden's page, best to use sandboxes -- either the public sandbox or make a subsidiary user page for yourself & call it sandbox. That you are "only" 13 doesn't mean that you shouldn't learn about & hold yourself responsible to follow Policies and guidelines, or follow the proper criteria in deciding what kind of template to add to an article that has problems.  Please take that lesson very much to heart from this experience.  And if any of it confuses you -- hey, just ask.  Ask admins, or you can ask me.  I'm not an admin but I seem to have learned a thing or two in my own sojourn here, & I know where to ask get questions answered if I don't know the answers myself.


 * All that said, Wikipedia is usually pretty forgiving of "newbie" mistakes before imposing things like indef blocks, by having those graduated levels of user warning templates that begin by assuming good faith & guiding new users when they make errors, instead of throwing the book at them & squashing them under it. I don't frankly know why they came down so hard tonight. (It's tonight where I am anyway, in Alaska.) Anyway, I hope to see this situation resolved in your favor by the time I get up in the morning. But for now... I'm off to bed. --Yksin 09:16, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Another last note: all admins & in fact all regular editors on Wikipedia deal with vandalism every day. It's the nature of Wikipedia's philosophy which permits anyone to edit.  So the overreaction here can't be just because the particular admins got tired of too much vandalism. There are tools and methods for dealing with vandalism, which admins are in particular responsible for dealing with.  But do be aware nonetheless that the edits tonight (or your today) that resulted in the indef blocks on you and your friend Josh Da Man do look to the casual observer like vandalism... (though to me, they look like experimentation -- & I'm not a particularly soft person on vandalism, I revert it every day, & have reported many vandals to WP:AIV). Read the Wikipedia policy on vandalism, go to WP:AIV to see if there are any open cases & look at the edit histories of the accuses vandals -- learn what vandalism looks like, & don't do it yourself.  And maybe learn to be a good fighter against vandalism yourself. And now, finally... good night. --Yksin 09:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was very immature in my mindless acts. I have all ready learnt my lesson from this incident and hope that anybody that comes across this page will too. If I am unblocked, I will archive this few messages in a user subpage (Most likely 'User:Deco_Da_Man/LessonsLearnt') and put a link directly on my user page. Thats if I get unblocked. I sincerely apologise to anybody I have affect and if anyone can provide me with a link to some page like Wikipedia:Apologies r something I will definately post a new topic there. Since I cannot:

Deco Da Man 10:12, 14 June 2007 (UTC).
 * Sincerely,

MySpace blocking... This is the second time I was blcoked. And I did nothing at all to provoke this. My talk page's archives of this subject Since you've been unblocked, you have made absolutely no edits outside of your user space and absolutely none to articles. You've had 4 days to edit, and you have not. I have blocked you indefinitely, this time, for treating Wikipedia like a social networking site.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 01:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * }
 * What! I have some things to say about this:
 * I have contributed to Talk:ActionScript/rewrite. You have lied.
 * I can assure you I am not using wikipedia as a social networking site.
 * I may have mainly made edits to my userpage, but only because I have been experimenting with wikipedia and reading and learning Wikipedia's policies and tutorials off by heart.
 * I have had no warnings at all about this, this is something you have done before. I've been reading.
 * Have you ever read Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers
 * I am still getting 'aquianted' with wikipedia and have not had the courage to edit anything major just yet.
 * I noticed that when you deleted my user page you put 'used wikipedia like myspace'. If I want a place to use like MySpace, I would go to MySpace.
 * I have also been spending time contributing to Wikipedia by making a Flash Client for interacting with Wikipedia. I made a Recent Change watcher in Adobe Flash that has the following code. It needs a multiline dynamic textbox on the stage called 'main_Text_box' on the satge to work

Source... var urlrequest:URLRequest = new URLRequest("http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=recentchanges&format=xml&rclimit=10"); var urlloader:URLLoader = new URLLoader; urlloader.addEventListener(Event.COMPLETE, updateChanges); var recentChanges:Array = new Array; function updateChanges(e:Event) { var xml:XMLDocument = new XMLDocument(e.target.data); for each(var xmlchild in xml.childNodes[0].childNodes[1].childNodes[0].childNodes) { var changed = true; for(var i=0;i50) { for (var i=0;i0;i--) { main_text_box.htmlText += i+"   "+recentChanges[i].timestamp+"           "+recentChanges[i].title+" "; } getChanges; } function progressEvent(e:ProgressEvent) { var progPercent = e.target.bytesLoaded/e.target.bytesTotal; trace("Loaded: "+(progPercent*100)); } function getChanges { urlloader.load(urlrequest); } getChanges;

Good grief! Another example, from the same admin (User:Ryulong, of taking the book & not just throwing it but absolutely squashing the perceived offender under it. Given the few edits involved, this sanction is so out of proportion as to beggar the imagination.

Of the edits Deco Da Man has done since his initial (& I would argue unjust block from the same admin) was lifted, the only ones I could find that look like "social networking" edits are those improving the design (at Wpktsf's invitation) to User:Wpktsfs/poetry, on User talk:Wpktsfs about those edits, him signing User:Chetblong/Super Secret Page, and a couple of notes to User:Selfworm about "super secret pages" and guestbooks set up by Selfworm. Interestingly enough, Deco Da Man's edits were only in response to stuff set up by those other users; interestingly enough, none of those other users got warnings (or blocks) about behavior that might be considered to amount to "social networking." His other edits since the prior block ended have been to thank me for standing up for him, archiving the conversation surrounding the prior block, welcoming a new user on that user's talk page (User talk:Iw newc84, and contributing to Talk:ActionScript/rewrite.

Otherwise, Deco Da Man seems to have taken to heart my advice after the last block to learn the rules & keep his nose clean before making edits... & what does he get for taking but further punishment from an admin who, pardon me, seems to have a particular animosity towards him. Or at least that's the only explanation I can summon up for not just one but two blocks made by the same admin based on very few edits, without any warnings given in advance per the usual Wikipedia practice of WP:Assume good faith and (Deco Man is right to point out) Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers. I certainly hope whichever admin reviews this block is more fair in their evaluation of Deco Da Man's activities, particularly in light of his age (13), inexperience, & relative newness to Wikipedia. Be sure to also review the history of the prior block that Deco Da Man has archived. --Yksin 17:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Update. I just noticed that Ryulong has also deleted the page User:Deco_Da_Man/LessonsLearnt in which Deco Da Man had previously archived the material relating to his prior block based on charges of sockpuppetry. However, all that stuff was previously on this talk page; see [|this diff] for what it looked like immediately prior to MaxSem lifting the prior block. --Yksin 17:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi all. I'll see if I can contact the blocking admin. In fairness, though, Deco needs to start looking at mainspace edits and maybe tidying up an article or two. Ryulong does have a point about MySpace, though .... - A l is o n  ☺ 18:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, I have no doubt that Deco Da Man needs to look into these issues about what a user page ought to be used for, and contributing also through doing mainspace edits, even if only to copyedit for typos etc.


 * But I just discovered that Blocking policy makes no mention of "User didn't make any mainspace edits in four days" or even "User made five or six edits that look a bit like social networking" or even "User has a user page that resembles the self-introductions made on Myspace pages]] as sufficient reason to block a user. Certainly talking or warning a user about these things would be well within reason -- & Deco Da Man seems to respond pretty well to such cautions & advice -- but laying a block down instead is overkill.


 * That said, thanks for taking a look. --Yksin 18:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * With "LessonsLearnt" I just went through any item in his user space that he created and deleted it. If he agrees to lay off the user space and get to work on improving articles, I would not disagree with an unblock.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 20:32, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd be glad to lead him by the hand & offer suggestions for how he could get started in making productive edits in mainspace. But meantime, by deleting "LessonsLearnt", you deleted a valid archive of his user talk page -- specifically, the discussion surrounding your first block of him for suspected sockpuppetry. Now it sounds as if you're saying you're disallowing from making an edits in userspace at all, whether those edits serve legitimate purposes for improvement of Wikipedia or not. That's an awfully highhanded way to wield admin powers. --Yksin 21:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok - I've discussed this with the blocking admin and have restored the LessonsLearnt page, though we both agree it is somewhat MySpace-y. It's not that Deco is disallowed from making userspace edits per se, but that he needs to move out of here and start editing article space, which is what this project is all about. May I suggest he maybe begin doing some wikignoming work and possibly use that to gain experience here? WP:CLEANUP would be an excellent place to start and could I suggest that if Deco agrees to Ryulong's suggestion, that you both target an article or two together and Yksin can guide him through it? - A l is o n  ☺ 22:04, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm completely willing to help with that, if Deco Da Man is willing. We actually cross-posted just now; I just spent some time making detailed suggestions to Deco Da Man to both the main concerns Ryulong and you have expressed. I seriously do believe that the main thing here is that this is a fairly youthful individual who mainly just needs a guiding hand to get him on the right track.  Now I guess it's a matter of waiting for him to wake up along with the rest of Australia, & respond to this offer. --Yksin 22:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

A more formal proposal

I think what I'm offering is something like this: Mentorship or Adopt-a-User, with me acting as mentor/adopter to Deco Da Man. I notice that I satisfy all the criteria for an adopter under the AAU program. Would this be acceptable to you, Ryulong? Alison? Would you be able to work with this, Deco Da Man? --Yksin 22:32, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm okay with that, Yksin. Good idea - A l is o n  ☺ 22:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * My understanding from this conversation with Ryulong is that if Deco Da Man agrees to lay off on edits of his own userspace for awhile, & to focus instead on mainspace article edits, & to be mentored by me in order to accomplish those ends, that Ryulong will remove the block. Just say okay to this, Deco Da Man, & it can happen.
 * I'm not mean, but if you say okay, you will have to follow through. --Yksin 00:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Suggestions for working on Wikipedia
Hey Deco Da Man. In hopes that your second (& in my eyes, second unjust) blocking case is resolved favorably, there are nonetheless some issues that another admin (Alison) besides the blocking editor (Ryulong)) believes need to be addressed: appropriate use of your own userspace, & making contributions by edits to Wikipedia mainspace (i.e., articles). So, here's some suggestions:

Appropriate use of your own userspace.

First take a look at policies and guidelines: WP:NOT and User page


 * Per WP:NOT,  Wikipedians have their own user pages, but they may be used only to present information relevant to working on the encyclopedia. If you are looking to make a personal webpage or blog, please make use of one of the many free providers on the Internet. The focus of user pages should not be social networking, but rather providing a foundation for effective collaboration.

Based on my memory of what your userpage looked like before it was deleted, I'd guess that you from Ryulong's POV it was providing more autobiographical detail about yourself than necessary for Wikipedia purposes, while giving very little about what your interests are on Wikipedia. Take a look at my user page, for example. Or here are other examples I'm just randomly grabbing to show how various users inform the community of their Wikipedia-specific activities/interests: Gimmetrow, Pb30, Keenan Pepper. Note how this last one provide some autobiographical info, but also mentions specific interests & includes a to-do list of tasks that particular users wants to accomplish. You might consider using Template:Todo, which is a nice gizmo way to do the same thing.

All those pages focus more on what how the users involve themselves in Wikipedia than in their non-WP lives/histories: the info, to quote from above, is "providing a foundation for effective collaboration."

Making contributions in Wikipedia mainspace

Maybe you don't know where to begin...? Some start-up resources


 * Read Contributing to Wikipedia. In particular, see the section called "Where do I start?" It's got a lot of good practical suggestions, and links to lots & lots of different kinds of collaborative projects, cleanup efforts, etc. etc. that you could get involved in. For example, one of the projects linked to there is Wikiproject Wikify, which has a well-organized page about how to help with this Wikignome-like task, along with how-to's and tools. Even just a half hour in an evening after school contributing to a project like this would add significantly to your mainspace edits, & maybe make admins like Ryulong feel a whole lot better about you.
 * Since you seem to be interested in programming, you might also want to check out the "Programmers wanted" section on the above page.
 * Join and become and active member of a WikiProject. For example, there's a whole bunch of them related to Computer science. Or, since you're an Aussie, maybe one of the Australia-related WikiProjects might be up your alley. Check out various projects pages, their purposes, lists of tasks needing to be done -- join a project or two, & do some stuff for them. (And feel free to add userboxes, if available, to your user page to indicate your participation in those projects.)
 * Learn how to fight vandalism. Even if you don't become a dedicated vandalism fighter, vandalism is so common that it's good to know the best ways to fight it -- first by learning exactly what it is, of course, in order to be sure you're not inadvertently reverting good edits. I personally learned a tool call Twinkle which makes dealing with vandalism pretty fast & easy, & also assists in making appropriate warnings on the talk pages of vandalizing editors. Mostly I just focus on reverting vandalism on pages on my watchlist, but now & again I go to Special:Recentchanges (linked from the left side of every Wikipedia page) & check out recent edits, especially of mainspace articles edited by anonymous IPs, & look for vandalism & revert it.
 * (Be sure when you make edits to put a note in the article's edit summary.)

Anyway, I hope this block, too, is resolved in your favor, & there's a few suggestions to help you keep it off you. Please do ask for help if you don't know what to do. I've got your talk page on my watchlist -- so even if you can't write on mine because of a block, I'm keeping an eye out. --Yksin 22:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

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 * I just restored your userpage. Please - don't go hacking away on it quite yet (MySpace, remember?) - you need to move out of your userspace and start making encyclopedic edits. Trusting you, so restoring it, ok? - A l is o n  ☺ 08:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Unblocked
Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reason(s): You have been given good advice on contributing to the encyclopaedia from Alison and Yksin, please follow it.

Request handled by: Steve (Stephen)talk 04:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * }