User:DesireCampbell/archive-Hercule Satan message

from Talk:Hercule (Dragon Ball)

There has been considerable debate on the topic of what a Dragon Ball character should be named. There are well over a dozen Wikipedians who have continuously failed to come to a consensus, and now seek outside help. This character is introduced late in the series, but takes on an increasingly prominent role as the series progresses. The two names being discussed are: Hercule and Mister Satan. Mister Satan is the character's name in the original (Japanese) versions of both the anime and manga, and is the name given to the character by Akira Toriyama. Not that "Mr. Satan" is a translation of his name, but his name is pronounced ミスター・サタン (Misutā Satan) as if in English. His name is written out, in English, as "SATAN" on signs and banners in the series, as well as his car (as seen in late-series eye-catches). The city he lives in is "Satan City", and his daughter is "Videl" (her name an anagram of "devil"). "Mr. Satan" is used in the Funimation (by far the most common English distributor) "un-cut" English dub that is used on it's dual-language DVD releases. "Mr. Satan" is the name used in the Japanese-translated subtitles on Funimation's dual-audio DVD releases. These subtitles are based solely on the Japanese script, differing from the English dub on many points including names (the dub "Krillin" becomes "Kuririn", "Tien" becomes "Tenshinhan", etc.) Hercule is derived from "Hercules" (the Greek mythological character) which was the name given to the same character in the French dub. The name "Hercule" is an obvious, and admitted, self-censorship as the name "Satan" has much stronger negative connotations for an American audience than a Japanese one. (This rationale was presumably financial. Parents would not, likely, purchase a "Satan" action figure for their children or a video game that featured "Satan" as a major protagonist.) "Hercule" is the name given to the character in the initial "cut" Funimation English dub, which aired on Cartoon Network, but is now out-of-print. "Hercule" is also used in most English language versions of modern (year 2000 and onward) Dragon Ball video games and licensed products. "Hercule" is used in the censored English version of the Dragon Ball manga as translated by Viz, though they keep a footnote alleging that Mr. Satan is the character's "stage name", and that Hercule is his "real name". It should be made clear, though, that such information comes entirely from Viz, and not the original script.

It should be noted that all of the name changes were done soley on the accord of those handling the respective adaptions, and that such changes have never been commented on by (Dragon Ball author) Akira Toriyama, or any Japanese source, nor are they used in Japanese media. "Hercule" is almost certainly more commonly known than "Mister Satan", as a Google Test for each (excluding the other, excluding wikipedia.org, only English websites, and the terms 'dragon ball z' added) garners 53,000 hits (for "Hercule" ) and 11,000 hits (for "Mr Satan" ) Many fans familiar only with the series on Cartoon Network or from video games, may not be aware of the Mr. Satan name. The case boils down to whether to use an older, more common name, or a more modern, correct name. The Wikipedians currently involved are becoming polarized and are in danger of simply bickering instead of debating. You opinions on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

How's that? If anyone has anything to add (or subtract) please do so. Once it seems as if the proposed question is "NPOV" please post it to: I'd do it myself, but I'll be away for a few weeks.
 * Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions
 * Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga
 * To answer a few possible questions if I am not here to answer:
 * I feel the proposed question should contain all the necessary information about the character. It's important for those we ask advice from to know as much about the situation as possible without having to re-read pages of "discussion" on the matter.

--DesireCampbell 00:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)