User:Duffs10/sandbox

Paint finishes
F800GS F650GS (2008–12) and F700GS (2013–)

Colours list/consensuses
Dear Biker Biker,

I would be grateful if you could provide me with guidance/documentation reflecting what general agreements have been made among the group relating to topics such as colour lists etc. To spend several hours collating this information accurately from BMW's EPC (this information is no longer documented on their various websites for models older than 2012) is slightly dispiriting and discouraging when the intent is to bring the level of detail of the article to the point of it being a well-rounded, one-stop source of information on F-series GS models.

There seems to be a minimal set of guidelines about what are and what are not acceptable topics to include on these pages. My understanding is that the point of Wikipedia is to provide the very best source of information possible about topics, so I am struggling to comprehend why removing correct and accurate information is acceptable.

Instead, I feel as though I am crashing a boys' club or that I am stepping on the toes of the longer term Wikipedians who don't appreciate a newcomer swooping in and getting to it.

My experience to date with Wikipedia principles such as Be bold, Assume good faith, Please do not bite the newcomers has fallen somewhat below expectation. A little bit of rounded, comprehensive feedback (both good and bad) would be helpful and appreciated, instead of snippy comments in edit summary fields.

Please point me in the direction of the 'ground rules' for this group so that we may all be on the same page going forward.

With kind regards George Duffs10 (talk) 19:01, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

''[Edit: I have now located the guidance requested above, but nevertheless feel that the inclusion of the colour list is not in breach of guidance as BMW (in the case of the F-series GS models) does not vary their range of colours/colour schemes by market and therefore the information is accurate to all readers. Guidelines notwithstanding my comments regarding my experience as a new user continue to be relevant.]''

--Duffs10 (talk) 19:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Dennis, this is very helpful and I appreciate the time you took to respond. Kind regards, --Duffs10 (talk) 02:20, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * If you can find an independent source that makes commentary about a particular color scheme, then it becomes relevant. In most cases, colors are too trivial, and even under the best circumstances, you can't get complete and accurate information about all the colors sold in every market around the world. You list the colors from the US or the UK for a particular model year but leave out Thailand and Australia and Brazil and who knows what. It becomes pointless, much like listing frame numbers.Your best bet is to try to research facts that carry some kind of meaning, such as a connection with other motorcycles or with other events, and facts about the bike that were influential in the industry. Remember, Wikipedia is not a motorcycle trivia database. And because Wikipedia is collaborative, you will inevitably encounter a bit of discouragement from time to time if your ideas go against the consensus of a lot of other editors. Even after many years of doing this I still run into that. It's just how it is on a collaborative project. You don't always get your way.If you'd like to change the consensus about colors, you can start the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycling and you will find others who are at least willing to listen. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:25, 26 March 2013 (UTC)