User:Fmph/Option G

Option G
In the last poll, I voted for the status quo, or Option F. The reason I did that was that it was the only option that used exclusively natural language names for the 2 main articles. I despise WPs adoption of parentheses as disambiguators. For me, they are not a very natural way to disambiguate. I feel that no one would type "Ireland (state)" into a search engine so why would we place the article about the state in that position in the article space? But I have to live with it here on WP, although I will usually look for a more natural language alternative if I get the chance.

Whether many of us Irish like it or not, Republic of Ireland passes both the natural language test and WP:COMMON. RoI is quite widely (ab?)used, and not just in the sporting arena. It is most widely used across the UK, although Southern Ireland and Eire are also used quite commonly. So the status quo works for me. But the problem with Option F, is that many (mainly Irish?) contributors here believe that the use of Republic of Ireland as the title for the article about the Irish state fails both WP:POVTITLE and WP:NDESC, and its easy to understand why they do. Before the Belfast Agreement, it was widely used by British officialdom. And it's use causes regular disruption on the pedia.

Wouldn't it be nice to find an alternative that proved to be: I think I have such a solution and will propose it below.
 * widely accepted
 * totally WP:NPOV
 * in natural English

The art of article naming
If we look at the intro to the article naming policy, we find that the policy sets out 5 key aspects to choosing an article title:(I've numbered them for ease of reference only)
 * Recognizability – article titles are expected to be a recognisable name or description of the topic.
 * Naturalness – titles are expected to use names and terms that readers are most likely to look for in order to find the article (and to which editors will most naturally link from other articles). As part of this, a good title should convey what the subject is actually called in English.
 * Precision – titles are expected to use names and terms that are precise, but only as precise as is necessary to identify the topic of the article unambiguously. For technical reasons, no two Wikipedia articles can have the same title. For information on how ambiguity is avoided in titles, see the Precision and disambiguation section below and the disambiguation guideline.
 * Conciseness – titles are expected to be shorter rather than longer.
 * Consistency – titles are expected to follow the same pattern as those of similar articles. Many of these patterns are documented in the naming guidelines listed in the Specific-topic naming conventions box above, and ideally indicate titles that are in accordance with the principal criteria above.

Of these 5, I think I have a proposal that can satisfy the first four, and feel that #5 - Consistency - can safely be put to one side as not really relevant to article naming for the subjects under discussion.

Between the original arbcom case and the most recent poll, there was only one fleeting mention of the proposal I will make below, so although it has previously been mentioned in passing, it has never really been considered as a viable alternative to the current status quo. I'm unsure why, as it fits the criteria very well.

The actual proposal
My proposal is as follows:
 *  G : The state at Ireland . The island at island of Ireland .
 * Ireland → island of Ireland
 * Republic of Ireland → Ireland
 * Ireland (disambiguation) → no change
 * {| class="wikitable" border="1"

! Name of page ! Initial text (the first sentence in the article) This is very similar to Option B in the previous poll, with the exception that instead of moving Ireland to Ireland (island) we move it to island of Ireland. That may not seem much of a difference, but I believe it is big enough to create a WP:consensus. For a start island of Ireland is already a redirect of Ireland, but funnily enough its one which is in use in a number of places. As of today (7/7/2011) it is used in 12 articles, 2 templates, and is referenced from 15 pages in the WP namespace, as well as numerous pages in userspace and in talkspace. So it is most definitely active.
 * island of Ireland
 * The island of Ireland is the third-largest island in Europe, and the twentieth-largest island in the world.
 * Ireland
 * Ireland is an independent state in north-western Europe. The modern sovereign state occupies about five-sixths of the island of Ireland, which was partitioned on 3 May 1921.
 * Ireland (disambiguation)
 * Ireland commonly refers to: ...
 * }
 * Ireland (disambiguation)
 * Ireland commonly refers to: ...
 * }

So lets run thro the 5 key aspects above and see if this option satisfies them:
 * 1) Recognisability - apart from the fact that there is an inherent ambiguity in 2 entities with the same name, the 2 new article names are most definitely recognisable.
 * 2) Naturalness - this is one where, I'd suggest, my proposal beats both the status quo and all the previous proposals. With the status quo, we use a pipe to satisfy the requirements for actual names. With my proposal, the WP:IMOS could be amended to avoid pipes entirely (although pipes would be essential during the moves) after the moves.  As I've mentioned above island of Ireland is a very natural disambiguation. It is widely used in both conversation and written work, both inside WP and without.
 * 3) Precision - well the new article name is about as precise as you can get.
 * 4) Conciseness -  given the avoidance of pipes, the proposed structure is obviously more concise, notwithstanding the fact that the combined length of the 2 article titles would be 2 characters shorter in the new world.
 * 5) consistency - I don't think there is any improvement in consistency, and I'm not sure it is that important in a disambiguation situation.

Performing the move
If we agree to go with Option G, then actually performing the move will require some thought. I think a process like this might work:
 * 1) Using a bot, we move every instance of " island of Ireland" to " island of Ireland"
 * 2) Using a bot, we move all remaining instances of "Ireland" to "Ireland"
 * 3) We move Ireland over the redirect island of Ireland
 * 4) We move Republic of Ireland to Ireland
 * 5) We create a redirect from Republic of Ireland to Ireland
 * 6) Using a bot, we move every instance of Ireland to Ireland
 * 7) We look at the instances of Republic of Ireland to see if they require further disambiguation or if they can be moved en masse to Ireland
 * 8) We amend WP:IMOS to take account of the changes
 * 9) We look at all Ireland instances to see if they require further disambiguation or if they can be moved en masse to island of Ireland

Changes to IMOS
There will be some changes required to WP:IMOS. For a start the section title would need to go. But after that I think we need a paragraph to explain the status quo before the change. And follow that with some info explaining that the current status quo - Ireland[island of Ireland]] that there shouldn't be a necessity for any disambiguation. I think a suggestion that where an editor finds an article where they feel disambiguation is required, they should bring it to the attention of the community (perhaps at WP:IECOLL?) and ask for some advice from the wider community.

Summary
So to summarise, going with Option G has a number of benefits. In the long term, we will have a less disrupted pedia. And compared to the piping/dab issues we have now, things will be much simpler overall. And the language we use in relation to Irish topics will be much more natural. I commend Option G to the community.

Support
Support - I agree with Option G. It is in accordance with Wikipedia policy and has long term stability. XoX. 124.169.184.64 (talk) 06:47, 24 November 2011 (UTC)