User:Gerry D/archive2

Sinnemahoning State Park
Hi Dinch, looks like I am the first to post here since you archived. I checked the PennDOT map references for Sinnemahoning State Park and added them to the article - it is not in Clinton County. The computer problem is better, thanks. I will take a look at Moraine and see you have been busy with lots of other parks edits - thanks.

What kinds of things do you want on a PA State parks check list? I suggested checking duplicate or similar names elsewhere, adding the PA county map refs, adding townships, checking that all have the right banners on their talk pages (WikiProjects PA (Penna) and PA (Protected Areas)), and think we should also look at spell checking and copyedits, and running the Peer Review MOS fixer tool. We could put it in one of my or your sandboxes and base it on the Frog table. Ruhrfisch 02:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC) OK, I am done with putting pictures into Groundhog - my thought was if we use a gallery on the list, it might be better to compare them all in that size. I also think I have every picture listed (including a new very nice one of Codorus just added that I found on my watchlist after thinking I was done). I tried to put comments on each in italics. I think we had similar ideas - try to get a variety of pictures showing the variety of parks. Some could also go into the paragraphs at the top perhaps (say 89 of the parks have a lake and have a Lake picture, or the Evansburg trail picture near hiking, etc.). We also need to decide how many pictures total we want (maybe 8 above and 8 below in galleries, plus any in the text above?). Sorry if I gave you any edit conflicts. Sowhaddayouthink? Ruhrfisch 21:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I like the checklist. When I spell check I go to the printable version, copy it, paste that into Word, and use that spell checker - it is a pain, so probably something to do only when everything else is done. As for the Peer Review tool, it is a javascript that you have to install in your User:Dincher/monobook.js file - I have it and would be glad to help you install it and run you through it if you want (there is a button on it that adds nbsp between numbers and units and other useful things). I agree the list is long, but if it is broken up into A-E, F-I, J-P, etc. then the sort for the whole list is lost (so you could only see what the largest or oldest park in J-P, not the whole state is). I looked at some featured lists and several I checked are as long or longer, see List of spacewalks and moonwalks, List of elements by name, or List of circulating currencies. If you want I can ask someone from Wikiproject Protected Areas to take a look at Frog and see what they think before we get much further. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just tried adding a thin blue row to separate parks alphabetically (between B and C, C and D, etc.). I stole the code from the List of spacewalks and moonwalks, but it made the sort keys not work, so I took it back out (all done in preview mode). Another thing to think about are pictures to add to the list - we could do a gallery across the top like Spacewalks does or thumbnails along the side like the National Parks list does. Ruhrfisch 16:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I like your picture suggestions, although I am not sure how easy it would be to get the animal in front of the park sign pix. As we look at parks for the checklist we can think of existing pictures to add. I watch all the PA and OH counties (from the maps I made and put on each originally). As for Maurice K Goddard (and the state parks) I think we make a good team (especially when I have time to do stuff here - sorry to be so busy lately). Anyway I really appreicate your including me on the DYK. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:15, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * We had the same idea and I ran into an edit conflict on your Groundhog page. I was going through and putting every park picture into either a gallery or a list of pix not taken in PA. I see we have looked at some of the same pix. Ruhrfisch 19:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Maurice K. Goddard, was selected for DYK!
Thanks for your contributions!  Nish kid 64  22:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks to you - it is really your article and I just helped expand it. I really appreciate you listing me as coauthor on the DYK nomination and now getting the DYK! Thanks again, Ruhrfisch 01:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Question and Pictures
Hi Dinch, I added Gifford Pinchot State Park (and three other parks) to the Frog and noticed it lists two years for founding Pinchot (1966 and 1961), but I couldn't find the date on the DCNR website. Do you know which it is and what source it is? Or is it another ask DCNR?

Saw your notes on the Groundhog pictures and agree - now we need to pick out which ones to use. Have a good one, Ruhrfisch 03:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, I tried but only you can edit your User:Dincher/monobook.js file (to prevent people playing tricks on you otherwise I guess). Just click on the link above, go there and edit it by pasting the following in:

// Script from User:AndyZ/peerreviewer.js document.write(' ');

Hadn't thought of a merger - I think it is possible that the name of Oil Creek State Park may just have been changed too. I know R.B. Winter used to be Halfway Dam State Park and was renamed. Good luck with the DYK. Shouold we have the former names on the list somewhere too? Ruhrfisch 04:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Then follow the note at the top of the page to bypass your cache (if you are using Internet Explorer, it is pressing Control and F5 at the same time). Then try editing an article and there will be a new peer review tab at the top right - click it and you can run a peer review, the bottom right most button makes the changes, but look at them carefully as sometimes they mess things up by changing text that should not be changed. Let me know how it works, Ruhrfisch 02:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I am fine with putting parks in a Recreation section for PA Counties - I added State Forests to Lycoming County. We may want to come up with a standard wording to make life easier. The other possibility is to put them in Geography in a Protected Areas subsection (what I did on Lancaster County, Pennsylvania). I will try to leave a message on the Pinchot editor's page - thanks I did not think to look at the page history - I just assume you wrote it ;-). Did you see Pymatuning now has a Lakes Infobox? As for the List pictures, why not make a gallery on Frog and put them there, but leave them at Groundhog too (with a note they are now on Frog). That way if we change our minds, we can always go back to Groundhog. I will try that next. Ruhrfisch 02:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I looked at the WikiProject US Counties guidlines, but they do not say anything about parks or protected areas in general. I think if we agree and put things in systematically, no one will care. We could it it to the checklist (also add it to the relavant townships). Have a good one, Ruhrfisch 02:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. I think Oil Creek State Park could be a DYK, not sure if the Drake Well site is in the park itself, if it is: Did you know... that Oil Creek State Park in Pennsylvania is the site of the first commercial oil well ever drilled?

Oil Creek and Drake Well parks
The peer review script works wherever you log in although you may have to WP:BYC at a different computer the first time. I wonder if Drake Well Memorial Park is now the PHMC Drake Well museum and not part of Oil Creek State Park? I found this: but only had time to read the first few pages. The topozone map here and the PennDOT map here - big PDF file seem to show the museum today as the former Drake Well state park. There is also an article about the Drake Well Museum so we can add the journal ref to it or the state park, whichever it applies to. Ruhrfisch 13:05, 25 January 2007 (UTC) PS If the Drake well is outside the park boundaries, then the DYK will need to be changed, maybe to Did you know... that Oil Creek State Park in Pennsylvania is the site of the first oil boom town? Only change if needed, but never hurts to think ahead. Ruhrfisch 15:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Glad they wrote back - the PDF history article on the Drake Well Museum says it is a state park (and was written in 1945). I still wonder when they switched from being a state park to PHMC? I saw the DYK edit and it looked fine. Have a good one, Ruhrfisch 02:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I am nowhere near done with it and it will take me the rest of the day, I expect. I will also work on the Frog pix - swap out per your suggestion, make them smaller in the table and put in a second table below the main list. Have a good day, Ruhrfisch 12:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome - I still want to add a paragraph on the history in the park - museum, trails, tableau - but need to figure out where to put it, as to it is not really recreation. I like the Jonathan Run Falls picture at Ohiopyle SP and added it to the article. I will also add it to Frog but need to figure what to remove - I think the captions should just be the park names, maybe the county too. Have descriptions above - what do you think? Ruhrfisch 00:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC) PS Aren't all Rivers Wateree (watery)? ;-)
 * Thanks, I always like dry humor... By the way, the great Cook Forest picture is from DCNR, and so not a free image. sigh. Ruhrfisch 02:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Frog
Let me know what you think of the gallery vs. the table of pictures at the Frog. I put in eight pictures, but think the Little Pine pic could go in the second group of eight at the end of the table (and maybe put the Pine Creek panorama in wide by itself after the defunct parks list mini-table, and yes it does show Colton and Harrison as best as I can recall - it has been several years since I took it). I tried for variety and am not tied to the position or choices of pix. Feel free to move or remove / add pix. Ruhrfisch 03:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you prefer the Ravensburg dam or pavilion for a CCC picture? Or am I missing one that would also work? No worries about being busy IRL, I know the feeling Ruhrfisch 04:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

DYK
-- Yomangani talk 10:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Congrats! Ruhrfisch 17:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Nolde but goody
I looked over Nolde bio and state park very quickly - seem good, I will try and do some copyedits tomorrow. The story of one tree to a forest has DYK potential. Could do either one, maybe even a rare double DYK "...that Jacob Nolde was so inspired by one pine tree on his land in the early 1900s that he planted 500,000 more in what is now Nolde Forest Environmental Education Center in Pennsylvania?" Have to say in the nom it is a double and you started Jacob and expanded the state park article. Could also just do ""...that Jacob Nolde was so inspired by one pine tree on his land in the early 1900s that he planted 500,000 more in his lifetime?". Take care, Ruhrfisch 05:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC) I think the people who tag articles just go through quickly and put them in categories (needs x), then other people work through those categories and sort stubs, or add infoboxes, or add categories. I think they also hope the original authors might be spurred to add the needed info - I need to add maps to 5 or 6 railroad articles I started (they are tagged as no maps). I also think a lot of it is project based, so they get some idea of the number of articles in the project needing x, or that are stubs, etc.
 * I added ratings to both Noldes and will do some copyedits tomorrow. I think the park checklist could be a part of the List of PA State Parks Talk page (maybe a sub-page). Although the 21 state forests are all at least starts, many of them do not include all of the info on their web sites (if you want more to do). I am in awe of your accomplishment though - congrats again, Ruhrfisch 05:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I copyedited both - moved parts of Jacob Nolde around a bit too (revert if it makes less sense now). I will be pretty busy the next several days, but will try to work on the Frog some. Take care, Ruhrfisch 02:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Dinch, I am done worrying about that dispute - I have wasted too much time on it already. A fire deprived of air quickly dies out and my replies are the air this dispute thrives on. I'm done with it. Good night and take care, Ruhrfisch 04:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In terms of firefighting, I imagine that it is much easier to ignore someone on Wikipedia than in person. My page was vandalized for the first time today and it had a Newton Falls connection, but was an anonymous IP user whose stuff I took off in the cleanup (at least that is how it appears from the edit history). I was hoping the vandalism would be cleverer. Oh well, at least someone cared enough to vandalize my page ;-). I will try to add parks to Frog this weekend, take care, Ruhrfisch 00:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I really don't think the vandal was NewtonFallsLeader - it was an IP user (no account here) who has done a lot of work on wiki and whose external links to the Newton Falls, Ohio article I also removed. Who knows. Now I am debating whether I should add the "This user's page has been vandalized 1 times" userbox to my page. I think I might not - just ignore it.

Do you read the Webb Weekly online (you've mentioned the Sun-Gazoo before)? They have my Lycoming County map on the front cover here. No credit for Wikipedia or me though. Take care, Ruhrfisch 03:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I am glad that the map is being used, but I think they should at least credit Wikipedia for it (if not me). I am not an expert on GFDL, but I think they have to cite the source by the terms of the license (and they should anyway as good journalistic practice). As for the other, I am a parent and certainly understand how names can be used as terms of endearment that might appear to be inappropriate to outsiders (like "monster", or in my case "bug"). I drove by the exit for Hickory Run State Park today but didn't have my camera along and was running behind so I didn't stop - was on the road almost 7 hours. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations!
On filling out the list of Pennsylvania State Parks. Have a well-deserved barnstar.

I couldn't agree more - well done! Ruhrfisch 04:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment on DYK nomination
You made a double nomination for Jacob Nolde and Nolde Forest Environmental Education Center on January 30. The Nolde Forest Environmental Education Center article was expanded on Jan 29, so unfortunately the it is past the 5-day limit. (There has been a backlog on DYK, so few articles have been cycling on DYK.) They are both nice articles, but, only the Jacob Nolde article is still eligible. &mdash; ERcheck (talk) 18:12, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations
Hi Dinch, I just saw Jacob Nolde on the main page - congrats! Ruhrfisch 03:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't delete - I looked some more and found this: "In 1940 the canal and towpath became Theodore Roosevelt State Park. It was declared a historic landmark in 1978, and was later renamed Delaware Canal State Park." From here. Ruhrfisch 20:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It is quite cold in the Keystone state. If you want you could work on the 26 or 27 museums of the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission (I could make a template like the PA protected areas one) or add histories to all the places in Lycoming County from Meginness' history. I will work on Frog as I can too - sorry to be so busy (plus I was bad and added fuel to the Newton Falls, Ohio talk page fire today - when will I learn? Have a good one, Ruhrfisch 02:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * My gift to you: Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission. I put it on the first four articles, then thought maybe you'd want to. Probably could use a Category:Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission too. I really do want to do the Priestley House (dibs) though - its mine. Let me know if I can help with any - I used the PHMC names, then found Niagara under a different name, so I would search on the red links. Might also want to make an infobox (I can work on that if you want) with the same map. User:Dinger could be your bot or sockpuppet. Take care, Ruhrfisch 02:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

template fixed (or I like you too, man)
I started a fix - not sure it is under IUCN, may need to take that out. Anyway, here it is, Infobox_historic_area plus a mock up for Drake Well Museum is below (based on Oil Creek SP. Thanks, and thanks for cheering me up, Ruhrfisch 00:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I answered the conversion question on User:VerruckteDan's talk page - I think you are right, but have a possible solution. Ruhrfisch 01:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I had to make a new template - the infobox is a call to a template, so I just copied the protected area one and went from there. I think I will change the name to PHMC Infobox - what do you think? There is a Template:infobox Museum but it has no map and is not what these need. Ruhrfisch 04:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I am still thinking of the name for the infobox - how about "Infobox historic site"? NewtonFallsLeader seems to have had a change of heart - left me a long note. Meanwhile the I don't like you brothers are still at it. I miss the months when I was first here and never got talk (although I am always glad to hear from you and most others). Take care, Ruhrfisch 23:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll change the name (actually move the template) to Infobox historic site. I am wondering about putting the IUCN stuff back in for some PHMC areas - Washington Crossing park and the battlefields at least. I might ask on Wikiproject:Protected Areas. Still quite cold in the frozen north. I am quite fond of spaghetti myself -- Enjoy! Ruhrfisch 02:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The first castle / palace I was ever in in Germany was the one in Hanau, had to wear felt slippers to protect the inlaid wood floors. I've seen the Grimm statue there too. Right now there is no way to note IUCN in the infobox (I removed it), so I'll put it back in and work on the discussion page (how to use it) too. There is actually a fair amount of humor here, but usually subtle. Have you seen WP:FUN? Ruhrfisch 11:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work on the Frog - I was checking streams in parks against the county PennDOT maps. Some questions: at what point do you want to move it to the real article? How do you want to divvy up asking the parks about area and date founded? I am thinking of getting a copy of the book on the PA parks (Our Priceless Heritage). Take care, Ruhrfisch 05:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Hells Hollow Falls picture is being deleted because it has no license information (see Image:Hell Hollow Falls.JPG). The user who uploaded it has been contacted via their talk page, so I didn't leave another message. That user has no activated email and has made no contributions in months, so I think it is gone. :-( Fortunately, we can replace it with the other waterfall picture Image:Jonathan's Run Falls.jpg. Since there are 120 parks, you could take the first 60 and I could take the second 60 (Marsh Creek State Park on). If it is OK with you, I will write Little Pine SP to ask them the date for Little Pine and the date and size for Upper Pine Bottom SP (LP is in the first 60). Or you could work from the top down and I could work from the bottom up. Ruhrfisch 16:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Check list and edit counter
Here is what I am sending LP SP as an email:

Hi, (or "Dear Sir or Madam")

I was wondering if you could please answer several questions about Little Pine State Park and Upper Pine Bottom State Park for me.

When were each of them established? How large (acres) is the total area of Upper Pine Bottom State Park? Are there plans to develop Upper Pine Bottom State Park in the future? In addition to replying to this email, would you mind adding the answers to these questions to the official park web pages (or if the information is already available online, could you please provide me with the URL)?

Thanks very much in advance for your help with these questions, Ruhrfisch 22:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I am checking each one with a blank spot in area or date. For the little parks, I send just one email (so McCalls Dam, RB Winter, and Sand Bridge were all one email to RB Winter). For the little parks I ask if any future developments are planned. Do you want a sample of my just one question letter? Ruhrfisch 00:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

One question letter:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I was wondering if you could please answer a question about Nescopeck State Park for me: when was it established?

In addition to replying to this email, would you mind adding the answer to this question to the official park web page (or if the information is already available online, could you please provide me with the URL)?

Thanks very much in advance for your help with this question,

Yours, Ruhrfisch 02:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

PS My guess is that all the battlefields and Washington Crossing are all former state parks too. Here's the link to the PHMC catalog with "Our Priceless Heritage: Pennsylvania State Parks, 1893-1993" in it (as a PDF here. Take care, Ruhrfisch 02:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you want to write to Ravensburg (since I did Little Pine in your list)? it is just "1930s". I sent a dozen park question(s) emails this evening and have maybe 8 to go (last one was Shawnee, didn't realize Patterson and Prouty Place are both administered from Lyman Run, so I emailed them twice - D'Oh!) Ruhrfisch 05:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, it is a small world. I recounted and I sent 11 emails yesterday to 10 parks and have gotten 7 replies from 6 parks so far (with all my questions answered but Upper Pine Bottom, although I am not sure I believe Little Pine was founded as late as 1950!). Glad you got my email too - I prefer to keep my anonymity here, but that is more for the "I don't like you" brothers and other vandal types. I changed all the areas to the convert template on Frog and have generally been working on wiki when I should do real work (another reason to be anonymous ;-) ). If you would prefer I can send more emails - it is not a problem for me and I like it. Take care in the sunny south - lots of snow in the North today and tomorrow! Ruhrfisch 20:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, don't worry about it. I have found dates or sent emails for all of my half (and found the date for Greenwood Furnace looking for Warriors Path, which is administered from Greenwood Furnace). I wasn't sure if that was your preferred email address, but will use it if it is (or you can email me a better address). I also hit 5500 edits today - leaving a warning after reverting silliness on Pennsylvania. I can email more parks, but are there any you have already done or want to do? I will also work on the list intro next. What do you think of the picture captions now? Take care, Ruhrfisch 22:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * An edit counter is if you want to check. PA is getting a lot of snow over the next 24 hours, so the emails to state parks may go unanswered tomorrow. Glad you like the captions. Have a good one - like the Registered Historic Places templates. Ruhrfisch 00:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Frog Comments
As for comments, I would do all the even semi-interesting ones first, then see what's left. I don't think most people will sit down and read the whole list, so it is OK to repeat some comments or types of comments. So all the ski resorts can be site of X ski area, all the roadside picnic areas can be similar (picnic area on PA Route XYZ), anything with a man-made lake can have "Lake XYZ is 112 acres", maybe some sort of blanket CCC facilities comment, all the undeveloped parks, all parks administered by another agency than DCNR, all conservation areas, etc. does that sound good? I don't have Scooby Doo or Mighty Mouse State Parks on my watchlist and I'll have to add them to Frog. Ruhrfisch 03:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC) Glad the DYKs are nominated. As I said here about Little Pine "let's dam one of the nicest creeks in the region!". There is a Ruby Tues. on the Golden Strip. I am busy writing for work in real life tonight, will wiki more later this weekend. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I would try to make things specific, so all picnic parks give the PA Route, all CCC give the camp number, all lakes give the acreage, does that sound good? Ruhrfisch 22:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC) (forgot to sign)
 * Sounds good to me. You might also want to join WikiProject Protected areas, given your creation of so many park articles. Take care, Ruhrfisch 22:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I only heard from one SP today - Sand Bridge is the smallest in the state. I updated Frog with that and added some to other articles. Also only wrote one park - figured no one was in with all the snow in PA. Sorry about the truck - as a non-truck person, I will admit to having asked friends with trucks for their help on occasion. Take care, Ruhrfisch 05:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I heard from several parks today and wrote to 7 more. When I wrote and asked for more info on Allegheny Islands they added the same info to their webpage later, so I assume most of what is provided will be similarly included. I think I will switch Little Pine back to 1937 as that is when it was given to the State Parks system from the CCC (1950 is when the dam was built). I still have to add some more new data and write the last 6 or 7 parks. I have only read through Cornwall Iron Furnace and Robert Coleman but both seem DYK worthy to me. Maybe Did you know... that Robert Coleman was Pennsylvania's first millionaire? (very short, maybe that Robert Coleman, owner of several iron furnaces, was Pennsylvania's first millionaire? I am having trouble with Cornwall maybe ...that Cornwall Iron Furnace in Pennsylvania is the only intact charcoal-burning iron blast furnace in its original plantation in the western hemisphere? (wikilink away). I will check the chemistry and do some copyedits this weekend. Thanks for the virtual cheesesteak - I like them very much but they do not go well with one of my New Year's resolutions ;-). Hope the truck work went well, Ruhrfisch 02:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Have not gotten much done here today yet - the whole 15 to Interstate 99 project is interesting - they have run into acid rock in Centre County which is a mess. Good luck with the DYKs - I will look at both articles soon. Ruhrfisch 01:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Might you consider joining?
The National Register WikiProject, that is. You're kinda already doing some of the work for the project anyway, so why not make it official? You might also find some resources that might prove useful in your endeavours, doncha know. ;) -Ebyabe 14:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Congrats and Thanks
Congratulations on the DYK! It is easy to suggest them for well written articles. Ruhrfisch 21:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC) Congratulations on the Robert Coleman DYK too! Just saw it on the Main Page, Ruhrfisch 17:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC) I mostly took a break tonight too - the Newton Falls, Ohio case has blown up again sort of (via an Advocate) so I have yet more time spent explaining my position again. I need to catch up on a few things around here when I get a chance. Take care, Ruhrfisch 05:44, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for the barnstar - I must confess that I don't always feel kind or patient with vandals, so this will help me to be that way more often and consistently. I think you want Db-author for the page in question. Thanks again, Ruhrfisch 21:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have checked all but a few of the parks - I still need to double check their webpages for the missing data and then it is only 5 or 6 emails left. I can send those tonight or tomorrow, depending. There are also a few parks I have emailed but not yet heard from. Maybe you can be the followup email if they don't write me? Ruhrfisch 22:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree the Market Street bridge is an article waiting to be written - last I checked someone had done Susquehanna River bridges as far north as Harrisburg. The Sun-Gazette had a nice history of all the bridges there in the past year, probably when they blew up the old bridge. I am wondering if the Protected Areas Infobox wouldn't be just as good for the PHMC articles - see Abraham Lincoln Birthplace National Historic Site for something pretty similar to most of the PHMC sites - wouldn't work so well for the State Museum or Archives or Brig Niagara though - I can ask MONGO if you want about all this. I don't think I will ever run out of things to do here. Adding history to Lycoming County and the West Branch articles is on my long term list of things to do. Feel free to add it if you want - Limestone Twp looks good. Take care, Ruhrfisch 05:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Histories look OK at a very quick glance, but don't see the refs (footnotes). I will check / add them if needed. More later, Ruhrfisch 22:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, the "blank spot" is Porter Township, which is both north and south of Jersey Shore, and has a little sliver connecting the north and south parts between Jersey Shore and Pine Creek. The county map does not show this sliver very well (or at all). I made it so I can fix it or try to. You can see a better map of it here or the PennDOT Lycoming County map here. You can see this month's queue for the Main Page here. Larrys Creek has been nominated for the Main Page here since Sept. 23, 2006. I will nominate White Deer Hole Creek once Larrys Creek has been on the Main Page (although it may get there first, all featured articles are eligible in theory and only about half come from the requests page). If you look at the requests page, there are a lot of different kinds of articles and some have been there much longer than old LC. I like the township article expansions. I added two to the Frog today (only new info I found). Take care, Ruhrfisch 01:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * One of the nice things is that eventually everyone will get their turn on the front page - plus with the variety I learn about a lot of different things - even AC/DC and Slayer ;-). If you get Dincher Township, I want a "Ruhrfisch Run" to be the name of one of the little unnamed tributaries of Larrys Creek or White Deer Hole Creek. Enough silliness, I am pretty sure "Nippenose" is in my Donehoo Indian Place Names in PA and will look it up when I get a chance. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:20, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough, Slayer is on the Main Page (in a DYK) right now. I should say almost all Featured Articles will be on the Main Page someday, though there are a few that might not make it. It may take months or even years though... I checked and Nippennose is a Lenape language phrase meaning "like summer", see here. I will add the reference to the article next. Take care, Ruhrfisch 02:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You are welcome - I started my last message then got busy with other things and posted it not having seen your message about Lycoming history. I think the level of detail is great, but at this pace someone will eventually suggest it is too big and that it be split off into History of Lycoming County, Pennsylvania. Ruhrfisch 02:28, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * PS You already have two of the online Histories of LC I know of (Meginness and the Picture of). Meginness is very detailed and is the basis of most subsequent histories. Here is another one online (but it is not complete yet). Ruhrfisch 02:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations
Congrats for the excellent article. I enjoyed reading it, particularly because of my links with the the steel industry in India. Looking forward to more DYKs from you. -- P.K.Niyogi 05:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Robert Coleman birthdate
Would it be possible for you to verify if the November 4 birthdate is indeed the New Style date? I've left an explanatory message on the talk page. MisfitToys 21:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Old Economy Village
I will take a look at Old Economy Village - thanks for adding the Wikiproject PA banners to so many Lycoming County places. I know about articles that are no fun - I am very slowly cleaning up / translating SS Heimwehr Danzig from German, but I have no real desire to do so and I find the subject of the article very distasteful. When do you want to move Frog to article space? Ruhrfisch 18:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC) Hi DInch, I want to revise the list some - are you done editing it for now? I will wait 15 minutes before starting. Ruhrfisch 02:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you should make the move (assume a copy and paste from User:Ruhrfisch/Frog to List of Pennsylvania State Parks, since the list already exists). Ruhrfisch 18:19, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I see Wikipedia as a place for all noteable human knowledge but there is a lot I avoid because of lack of interest or because it is nasty. I try to help translating every so often but I don't know a lot of the specialized Nazi / SS vocabulary. The only funny thing about the article is when I started someone thought the SS referred to a ship! Maybe there is a Nazi wikiproject I can hand it off to (there is one for porn stars). Take care, Ruhrfisch 18:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I tagged it as needing expert attention from the Military History Wikiproject and said I had done all I could with it. I am sure there are people who think creeks and state parks are boring or nasty too. Did you see VerruckteDan's note on my talk page? I have also seen this twice since the move, though once the list worked fine. Take care, Ruhrfisch 02:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I took out several more convert templates in the comments section and now all the others work and the Protected Areas navbox works too (I think the problem is having more than a certain number of transcluded templates). I changed the full name to "PA DCNR" in all but the first ref to make them shorter so the two columns ref trick could be used (have yet to do the 2 cols). I want to see what they say about the refs in peer review and FAC. If there was one list of all parks online we could cite that (which is what the US Presidents and US National Parks featured lists do). Since there is no single all encompassing source I know of, we have 120 refs for 120 parks plus a few for history. Ruhrfisch 22:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, the discussion has moved to Talk:List of Pennsylvania state parks. VerruckteDan found a single list ref, but I think I will keep the refs in for now if that is OK with you. See the talk page for details. Take care, Ruhrfisch 01:47, 26 February 2007 (UTC)]
 * I am done for tonight and think it is about ready for Peer Review. Will submit it tomorrow, unless I hear otherwise from you or Dan. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I am glad you recognized my style - an early review of Larrys Creek was from JWRosenzweig in Washington State who pointed out not everyone knows where Lycoming County is within Pennsylvania. Eventually you will get to Eldred Township, where someone dumped a section of Meginness in (needs to be chopped way back). I pretty much know all the parks by dot (did you see three were too far south - Moraine, McConnells Mill and Jennings?) and the weirdest thing was reading the article about the parks and coming across the previously unknown Crooked Creek State Park and Curwensville State Park (already knew there was a big dam there, but not a former state park). I will put the last refs into the list. Ruhrfisch 01:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Flying Crows
Hi Dinch, I am also not sure why they picked the crow for the straight line distance bird. I picked Pittsburgh and Philadelphia as I assumed they were the two cities in Pennsylvania most people would know about. I did the distances with the latitude and longitude distance calculator. I ordered the Our Precious Heritage book today and imagine it will have some more info. I think the List is about as done as I can get it in terms of refs and former parks and name changes with what we have available online, although I do need to make some updates based on the article from PA Heritage (dates in park articles mostly). Hopefully we can fill in the gaps in current parks soon and nominate it at WP:FLC. Did you see VerruckteDan is making stubs to get rid of red links (Crooked Creek Lake Recreation Area)? I actually cleaned up Eldred Township a little bit a long time ago - ugh. Still needs a lot of work. I saw History of Lycoming County - good work. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

PS If you want to make Graeme Park (a PHMC place - not sure if it is your cup of tea or not) I have a DYK for it from looking at the web page. Ruhrfisch 04:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

PPS The only article I ever read and knew who wrote it was Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania. Ruhrfisch 04:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the crow update - I never knew (but it makes sense). I did a lot of work on the List, updated all the remarks. I think it is nearly ready to go to WP:FLC, just needs the rest of the water bodies. I will say more on the List talk page about my edits, feel free to revert if I screwed up anything. What do you think about readiness for FLC? Take care, Ruhrfisch 14:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Madame Montour
There appears to be a lot of confusion and conflict about this historical connection to Catherine Mountour. You might do everyone a great service, by straightening it out, unless it confuses you also. I have wondered if more than one person is being referred to in the sources. The best of luck, Stepp-Wulf 02:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC). I got all the former parks and names I could from Cupper's book and added them to the List, also a fifth gallery of images. I made some major changes in organization and would like to look them over tomorrow to make sure it makes sense - if we don't mind red links for some streams we could submit to FLC this weekend. If we do mind red links, maybe Monday? I will look at new Madame M source tomorrow - frazzled from state parks now. Good night, Ruhrfisch 04:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree and left a brief comment on the talk page and put a disputed tag on the article. Ruhrfisch 04:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Margaret was a daughter of Madame Catherine Monour - some sources then said she was a niece but everyone agrees she was Andrew Montour's sister and he was definitely the son of Madam Montour. Ruhrfisch 05:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * One problem is that while Madame Montour was multilingual, she was apparently illiterate, so we have to depend on a few journal entries and other correspondence for primary descriptions of her and have nothing from her directly. Since she was of mixed parentage (Native American father, French mother) I have seen it suggested that she made up the kidnapped at an early age story to explain to colonists why she lived as a Native and not as one of them as they would have expected her too if she were "French" (she also claimed to be the daughter of a governor of French Canada, but that is easily disproven). I am busy IRL but will try to fix this soon. Ruhrfisch 21:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Feel free to do Shikellamy. I will take a look at Madame Montour next, as well as clean up / dab her granddaughter Catherine Montour. Thanks for clearing that up. I plan to work on the list tonight, mostly reading offline for history first, then adding as I am able. Take care, Ruhrfisch 02:04, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I started Madame Montour copyedits, but every source seems to disagree, so I started adding inline citations. I am stopping for the night, but will work on it more. There must be a DYK in MM somewhere, have to think about it. Ruhrfisch 03:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, when you put an inline reference in, you use the tag. The next time you want to cite "history", you only have to put in (notice the slash at the end of the name, it is required). If there is no slash at the end, the software thinks everything that is following it is a part of the citation until a tag shows up. That is why the rest of the article disappeared, the slash was missing and there was no tag. I fixed it and will put in more former parks from two new refs I found today. Take care, Ruhrfisch 01:38, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It must be Donehoo talks about her working for both NY and PA and being paid a man's salary (since I have that). I will look at it and add that to the article. Ruhrfisch 04:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, I thought I could go through Madame Montour and basically just put in all the contradictory info with refs. I am not sure about the state parks list and adding the possible former parks I found - could you look at the talk page and see what you think? Thanks, Ruhrfisch 16:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Graeme Park
Did you know that Graeme Park is the only surviving residence of a colonial era Pennsylvania governor? Ruhrfisch 02:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It has to be over 1500 characters without infoboxes and refs and I get only 673 (804 with spaces). There is a timeline in the website that has more info. Ruhrfisch 11:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Your addition of the intro paragraph on the 5th is the start of text expansion as I see it. Today is the 6th (these are wiki days). You have 5 days from expansion beyond 1500 characters, so I think you are OK if you nominate the 6th or 7th and they have to put it up by the 10th. I have also seen nominations that then say "Still working on it" or words to that effect (I think you could noiminate it now, in other words, and work on it and it would be done before it got on the front page). If you want you could put a skeleton rest of the history in and nominate it, then flesh it out. I am not sure this is very helpful. Ruhrfisch 02:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I moved it down to the 5th (day expanded) and wikilinked colonial era and Pennsylvania, hope that was OK to do. Take care and good luck! Ruhrfisch 03:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

DYK

 * Congrats Dinch - a well deserved DYK for an extensive and well done article. Keep up the good work, Ruhrfisch 12:14, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

New NRHP Collaboration Division
Hey, saw you were a participant in the National Register of Historic Places WikiProject. I thought I would let you know that there is a new Collaboration Division up for the project. The goal of the division is to select an article or articles for improvement to Good article standard or higher. There is a simple nomination process, which you can check out on the division subpage, to make sure each candidate for collaboration has enough interested editors. This is a good way to get a lot of articles to a quality status quickly. Please consider participating. More details can be seen at the division subpage. IvoShandor 11:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

State Parks List
Thanks for the link - I had not seen it. Parts do look very familiar ;-). Thanks for making the Rauchtown Run stub too - it is actually a tribuatry of Antes Creek, which then flows into the West Branch Susquehanna River. I am almost done going through the park water and will then make more creek stubs, then add the notes, then we will have no more red links and can submit it to FLC. Finally, Ruhrfisch 18:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Dinch, I forgot about the sinks there. The PA Gazzetteer of Streams II lists Antes Creek and Rauchtown Run as one creek system (they do the same for Little Pine and Blockhouse Creeks). I will make a suggestion to have one article on both creeks. Here is a link showing the sink and emergence on the same map. Did you see all the red links are gone in the list? Now for the notes. Have a good one, Ruhrfisch 21:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not sure I will get to the notes in the List tonight but will try - one will be the 1937 state forest areas note and the other will be a 1925 camping areas note. Once we get the notes I am fine with submitting to FLC. Do you want to submit with the 120 individual park refs (~91 kb) or do we want to save a copy in Frog and submit the version with the one list as the ref for all parks in general (my guess is ~61 kb, can refer them to Frog if they want all the refs)? I want to work on MM more and then on Rauchtown / Antes creek. I may ask at WikiProject rivers, but I think I have an idea how to do it and may try that first. Too much on my plate now - sorry, Ruhrfisch 02:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I like the DYK idea - also agree with you on Frog and FLC. Now just need time to do both ;-) Ruhrfisch 10:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

DYK

 * No need to thank me - thank you for your contributions. Keep up the good work. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * ...and thank you for nominating me too - you didn't have to and I appreciate it very much! Ruhrfisch 01:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

FLC
Hi Dinch, List of Pennsylvania state parks is now a featured list candidate here: Featured list candidates/List of Pennsylvania state parks.

I will look at the histories next - one idea is to come up with a few sentences for general history (shorter blurb) and cite the History of Lycoming County article. Not everything has to be in each history - I don't discuss Fair Play Men for White Deer Hole Creek as they weren't involved (but I will for Lycoming Creek and Pine Creek). I think I have a DYK nominee: Recreational Demonstration Area (red link filler that grew - still not done). I think if we make an Antes Creek article we can merge Rauchtown Run into it and that resets the clock for DYK. Take care, Ruhrfisch 01:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the edits and catching that. I wanted to get Camp David in there, so it is: DYK...that the forty six Recreational Demonstration Areas built as model parks near urban areas during the Great Depression, later became national and state parks, and in one case, Camp David? Agreed some interesting things are likely going on in RR and AC. Ruhrfisch 02:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoa - that is a way cool find. I have ten more former RDAs to add to the RDA article (and Hopewell Village NHS, which is the other part of French Creek RDA). I think it has a good chance at DYK and also feel quite good about the FLC, but we'll have to see. Good night, Ruhrfisch 03:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry to have beaten you to the punch on the list edits. The FLC is looking good so far, I think. I am working on a NC map in the style of the PA and USA locator maps (saw the comment above). Have other stuff to do in real life, but will add RDAs as a break periodically. Take care, Ruhrfisch 01:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

NC State Parks
I like the idea of having the NC State Parks Locater being just NC. (but having a cleaned up version of the nc map.) Couple of questions:
 * 1) Did you mean to change the area to "82 acres (0.33 km²)" from 4,667 acres?
 * 2) What did you use to locate the Lat/Long coordinates?

Thx for your input Zanter 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Question, do you use a tool for knowing where to put the dot? Or guesstimate it? Zanter 18:37, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for the DYK congrats - I think I can turn RDA into a sortable list too. Not sure why there are no new comments on the FLC, at least no opposes either. Ruhrfisch 22:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, I made the map and put it on one article, Carolina Beach State Park, with a guess for the locator dot. It has the same color scheme as the US and Pennsylvania locator maps. I will tell Zanter next. Take care, Ruhrfisch 01:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I looked at Wikipedia Signpost and the two most recent featured lists only had 4 and 5 support votes (and one oppose) each: List of counties in Kentucky, and List of snow events in Florida. It might be we won't get many (any?) more votes. Also I plan to look at List of counties in Pennsylvania next. Ruhrfisch 02:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I figure 10 days - that is how long KY counties took (FL snow took a month). We got another support vote - not sure what the minimum is. I thought of adding another sentence to the description - four state parks are on the site of former iron forges (word choice?): Mont Alto, Caledonia, French Creek, and the former Colerain - but I am sure I am forgetting at least one. What do you think? Ruhrfisch 12:28, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Dinch, I will add the industrial heritage parks to the list (just a sentence). Not sure how I missed the Furnace parks ;-) Take care, Ruhrfisch 03:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I added the industrial heritage sentence - hope it is OK. Take care, Ruhrfisch 03:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

What break?
Tomorrow is a week for the FLC. It is over the minimum number of support votes, so I think it is just a matter of time (probably 10 days as that seems the shortest time of what I've seen, so about 4 more days). I tweaked the list a bit more just now - made the notes consistent (took out "State Park" from names) and fixed a slight WP:MOS problem (added hyphens to numbers in the notes). I may add infoboxes to Ohio Counties - fairly mindless but satisfying when all 88 are done. Enjoy your warm weather Ruhrfisch 19:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC) Thanks for the heads up - I replied there. Hopefully that takes care of it, but it is an actionable request in an FLC so we have to do it if the editor insists. I will add the note about establishment dates tonight - it will be Note d, so I have to relabel the later ones. Take care, Ruhrfisch 01:16, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have been resisting the temptation to get my fingers burnt ;-). Worked on Rec Demo Area article some - made a list start. See you were very busy - we should get the checklist for parks somewhere. Don't feel guilty, you do an awful lot here. Ruhrfisch 03:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * We had talked about a PA state parks checklist a while ago, see User_talk:Ruhrfisch/Archive4. Sorry to be unclear, and thanks for the edits on RDA Ruhrfisch 04:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for putting the date in for Linn Run - I was not sure if it should be 1909 (purchased) or 1924 (Public Campground)? Once it is featured I have thought about adding another note to the List about the uncertainty of many establishment dates, probably with the example of Upper Pine Bottom State Park (acquired by state by early 1900s, Public Campground by 1924, the CCC built a pavilion there in 1936 (which is now gone), but only officially transferred from Forests to State Parks in 1962). I think I will contact the Regional Office and see if they can get an acreage for Laurel Mountain (and tell them about their locator map error). Ruhrfisch 15:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Dinch, I double checked and the Mill Creek in Mill Creek Township is a tributary of Loyalsock Creek (see here), although it is not the Mill Creek that forms Rose Valley Lake (which is also a tributary of Loyalsock Creek). Ruhrfisch 00:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I had not heard of Central Oak Heights except through you (I think you said your grandparents had a place there?). Should it be Central Oak Heights, Pennsylvania? Ruhrfisch 01:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)