User:Hoary/Archive27

File:Wp-naughty-bit.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Wp-naughty-bit.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 22:08, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks, that was incredible, he moved it yesterday and I reverted him, now he does it again. It even has memos to me, unreferenced and unchecked facts, quite a lot of conjecture and supposition (by me) and a flag warning people that it's infinished - what more can one bloody well do? One depsairs - it's not even as though he's a new user. Thanks again. Giacomo Returned 11:03, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, but you seem to assume that he's read it. &para; Today, my comment to him is (I think and hope) polite. I hope that there is no next time. If there is, I'll dispense with the politeness. -- Hoary (talk) 11:21, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sadly the history seems to have got lost now, it looks as though he started the page, amongst that which is lost was him removing an "unfinshed memo" at the top of the page. He knew exactly what he was dfoing. Is there anyway i can get the history back - I don't know how it has become lost? Giacomo Returned 11:26, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll look into it and try to fix matters. I may make a few little slips along the way; please be patient for a few minutes. -- Hoary (talk) 12:59, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've restored the history, but in doing so seem to have deleted your latest changes. Worse, I can now see no sign of the latter. Oh dear, I hope that I haven't lost much of your time/work. I could look a bit further, but it's late here, I'm sleepy, and if I try to do more there's a risk I'll make a worse fuck-up. Well, I hope that my last restoration was a net plus; but whether it was or wasn't, please don't hesitate to call in a competent, wide awake admin to get things right. -- Hoary (talk) 13:11, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Just because you are an admin doesn't make you unaccountable
Whilst my comments towards AMacR may not always assume good faith-and for very good reason at times i believe-your comment in regards to what constitutes "thinking non-fanatics" is worse than anything i've said about OR and POV, and the fact your an administrator makes it worse and seriously calls into account your judgement - something i was already wondering about before you made the comment.

"Well, it's off-topic" sounds like a very poor excuse to avoid discussing your comment especially as you went off-topic many times questioning me and my comments. One rule for me and one for you? As an administrator are you above accountability for your words? No your not. Am i? No, but i'm not an administrator.

"Well, it's off-topic" is tantamount to a defense of your comment especially as you never apologsied for it or retracted it or bothered to explain it to me on my talk page. That comment i feel has seriously called into question your neutrality and ability as an administator, especially in that discussion, and could even breach conduct and accountability.

The administrators wiki page states: Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Wikipedia-related conduct and administrator actions and to justify them when needed. - this means you are bound to answer queries about your conduct - i asked you to elaborate, and you ignored the request. I brought it up again and you try to bury it with "Well, it's off-topic".

Mabuska (talk) 11:25, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * By "thinking non-fanatics" I exclude people who like to march or put out bunting. I'll rephrase the last noun phrase: people who like to march in uniform or put out flags. Such people aren't necessarily fanatics, but they seem more likely to be than do people who neither march in uniform nor put out flags. -- Hoary (talk) 11:40, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe you were looking for the word bigot? It is a still a seriously ill-informed viewpoint anyways. Whilst yes there are bigots who march and put out bunting - the majority who do aren't. Everything has bad eggs that tarnishes the quiet majority, its like assuming every Irishman knows how to make bombs and riot. Don't mistake patriotism or expressing ones faith as fanaticism - otherwise your tarnishing close to a million people in Northern Ireland. Mabuska (talk) 11:00, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Drscottesims
I followed your suggestion--and left you a request. Drmies (talk) 05:27, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I dunno; I don't think I've ever closed an MfD and I've only very rarely closed any XfD. I copied a pile of mumbo jumbo from the first closed MfD I encountered, which happened to be this one. I hope I got it right. -- Hoary (talk) 11:15, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I wonder if you were the right person to close it. Since you opened it, you were scarcely uninvolved. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:12, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Since somebody else (Drmies) had deleted it and then asked me to clear up after him/her, I thought that the clear-up would be uncontroversial (and indeed that politely refusing to do so would seem petty). And all this for something that I probably could have speedied in the first place. But don't hesitate to reopen it if you like; I won't object. -- Hoary (talk) 21:21, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hoary didn't delete the page, only noted that the deletion had already happened. There was no further outcome to talk about (never mind the content was a blatant PR blurb which could have been speedied with no fuss at all). A nom can close their own XfD when the outcome is foregone, as a means of saving volunteer time. Gwen Gale (talk) 22:42, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I didn't actually see the close as problematic. (If I had then I would have reopened it.) However, I just wondered if it would have been better to have kept clear, to avoid any doubts. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, next time I'll try harder to avoid the impression of impropriety. -- Hoary (talk) 23:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

A purely technical comment: When you copy/pasted the boilerplate, you accidentally copied a bit too much, which resulted in a strange result when the page was transcluded. I performed to set it straight. In case you have to close another one, it's easier to insert for instance delete. ~ at the top and at the end. Favonian (talk) 11:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Now that really was silly of me. Sorry about that. -- Hoary (talk) 23:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Michele Bachmann presidential campaign, 2012
I'd rather not participate in the talk page discussion as I have no wish to subject myself to Arzel's incessant personal attacks. When he has something to contribute beyond insults and the usual alphabet soup, I'll chime in there. Gamaliel (talk) 05:37, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Come come, you're an administrator. We administrators thrive on personal attacks and other dubious allegations (as long as they're directed at ourselves). Indeed, there's a rather good one above; read and enjoy. -- Hoary (talk) 05:46, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * lol. Maybe they thought your handle was spelled "Whorey" --69.143.17.59 (talk) 01:21, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Haw haw haw! -- Hoary (talk) 01:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

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Stephanie Adams
The fact of whether she is "self published" or not is really such a trivial topic that a certain IP address continues to add. I personally am a published author by one of those publishing companies and actually got paid, rather then paying them. In any event, it's best to NOT post something that is questionable, never cited or sourced online, and is not a documented fact. You seemed to agree by not posting it. Perhaps the IP address that enjoys posting it should read the following comment on the top of the Discussion Page: "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous." Cheers! 74.101.6.188 (talk) 16:09, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Hoary does not care. I'm not even sure whey he even visits her page, except to regurgitate his thoughts. He/She makes derogatory comments and tacky insults about the subject matter (and I'm sure he doesn't know her personally) all the time, which is also libellous. Maybe he's the weird "69" user who hides and stalks this page. 71.183.68.120 (talk) 08:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * You're right about one thing: I don't know her personally. I've never met her, and indeed I am not interested in her. If I'm not interested in her, why am I interested in her article? For the same reason that I'm interested in the articles about (though not in the persons of) various people, e.g. Richard Fitzwilliams. -- Hoary (talk) 12:02, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Hubertine Heijermans
Hello, as you made some revisions I first of all want to thank you for your help. Maybe you understand it looked rather severe to me, as it seemed I did not mention enough sources. But how can I do that? Your changes and questions really confused me and I did not expect them. What else to give as a source? The portrait of Emmanuelle Béart with the white hat can even be seen and recognised. And is the official website itself not of help where portaits of actresses are shown and where the signature of the artist is present on the portrait. I will certainly not invent things when writing this article. As you made several changes or remarks I hope it is ok that I answer here and not in the article. For the exhibit in Singapore for instance the Straight Times article mentions the artist and the Gallery of Nanc Roach> they skipped the y of the name Nancy. Is it possible that well-known people in France in particular, are not known any longer in the world of today ? Thanks for any suggestions, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 00:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I note your questions, and I may try to answer them later. First, however, I have a question for you. In this edit, you appear to claim to be the copyright holder of a work by Hubertine Heijermans. I infer from this that you are Hubertine Heijermans. Is this correct? -- Hoary (talk) 01:11, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

The answer on your question about copyright and the name is yes. I had to take over from user Paldopaldino, who started. I hope you can see and verify. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 01:34, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Please read "Autobiography", and stop editing the article itself, other than to correct straightforward errors (whether inserted by other people or [via typos, etc] by yourself) and of course to restore after any vandalism. However, please feel free to make suggestions in the article's talk page.


 * Now, are there reliable sources (according to Wikipedia's definition) for the claims made in the article? These may be in English, French, Dutch, Italian or any other language, and they may be on the web, on paper, on microfiche. If they exist, footnotes pointing to them should be added. (Please suggest them in the article's talk page.) If they do not exist, the claims should be removed. -- Hoary (talk) 01:45, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice, but it opens up things I have to add, because I am about to give up. First of all it was never the idea to write myself: I edited a book on request of the Commune where I live in 2009, which should have been sufficient in itself, but is not. The public does not know about art and/or does not read. Secondly Paldopaldino, a steward on Swiss planes, started this article in french and was accused with NO warning of vandalism. Last year he did not know yet about talk pages, therefore never reacted to questions of wikipedians. He found out that ANY french article is corrected by the French. There exists NO Swiss wikipedia. The french did not even acknowledge the Musée Jenisch, even less took into account articles in the big Swiss newspapers. Paldopaldino wrote the article on demand of the Commune Ollon (where we live). This was, because I am old, worked my head off and some people realized that women artists are undervalued. This is why the need to put things according to Wikipedia rules (well naturally so), is sort of killing in this case. Because the risk exists now that essential things that DID happen will be left out. Like the meeting that took place in Florence with the great painter Annigoni. Nobody even then did believe one could be so lucky as to receive advice about something so apparently insignificant as the use of lead white, from such a great master. I now also explain the absolute 'must' to be and to have to remain discreet about portraits of persons. Letters of Camnitzer or of the Director of the Circus Knie family for instance can not be published. Yet they confirm their relationship with the artist. In the very beginning I wanted to leave the official website out. But there one can see the portrait of Carla Bruni on the easel and the artist busy painting it. I thought I did a good thing to write some articles in dutch about museums and real heros like teacher Kraczyna during the flood of the river Arno, and in particular the 'Maire' Piero Bargelini, even now called the Maire of the 'alluvione.' Paldopaldino recently wrote to me, that the best would come after my death. Now there is no article written in french, which means that the french Vaudois here will at the most find something in english or dutch. Not all autobiographers exaggerate when talking about their own person. As for the french wikipedia, No french wikipedian helped or answered. So your reactions are absolutely welcome. All I want is an honest well referenced article. But MY highlights and the very best detailed items in the article right NOW, describe my luck to have met wonderful teachers like Kraczyna (my article about him risks disappearing and I don't have the means to add more specifics), Annigoni, Luis Camnitzer and the Circus Knie family. It bothers me is that will be left is an insignificant mentioning of a woman artist, nothing about the incredible ups and downs, for which there is no room in an Encyclopedia. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 13:10, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Paldopaldino seems never to have been accused of vandalism in English-language Wikipedia.


 * If the French did not even acknowledge the Musée Jenisch, well, they also don't acknowledge Maison de la photographie Robert Doisneau (in Paris), just as the anglophones didn't until I created a (short, poor) article on it, and just as English Wikipedia doesn't have articles on a large percentage of the museums that I can think of. Any sane, sober francophone is welcome to create a French version of Jenisch House.


 * Of course French-language Wikipedia is corrected by the French. No, there is no Swiss Wikipedia, just as there is no Canadian or Belgian or Singaporean Wikipedia: Wikipedias are set up (and then flourish or wither) by language not nationality.


 * Yes, the average person has no interest in art (unless this is sensationalized "art", perhaps models of Michael Jackson or of the artist's sex organs, or skulls encrusted in diamonds, or whatever's the fad of the week), and the prototypical editor of this Wikipedia appears to be a male teenager with a passionate interest in animated TV series or railway lines. I know all this. I also know a lot more about several people about whom I have written rather good articles than these articles say or, in the foreseeable future, will say; because my information comes direct from the biographee to me and it is not published for all to see. It doesn't matter how true or important some incident is; if it's not verifiable then mention of it doesn't belong in Wikipedia. -- Hoary (talk) 14:29, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

You are right, Paldopaldino started and finished the article on french wikipedia, which was then deleted. In English he just gave up. Italian (from the Ticino) is his mother tongue and the Vaudois language ..., I wouldn't dare to comment, so of course french must be french french. Talking about english speaking Singapore: some people seriously asked me whether Switzerland belonged to Europe? And many had NOT heard of a certain Picasso (in 1994). Anyway, let it be, I will not touch the article again. I found your article on the Doisneau photography house interesting. Now for the sake of Annigoni's strong influence on my work since 1969, I would like to see it changed in the article: that he was mostly known for his fight with modern and perishable expressions in art, defending the ancient  time resisting techniques of oilpainting. I have also known painters that stood by him, like Antonio and Xavier Bueno and the result was, that this influenced my technique very much, in applying their recipes and since then thanks to him I resisted easy ways out in order to obtain spectacular effects. Of course I don't mean to knock down authentic modern expressionism. I also like anything new, young or strikingly shocking. But I know you are aware how fast and the old and the new become boring. As for the actresses the movie made them well-known, and they appeared everywhere in magazines and papers. Some outfits I even wore myself of JPG >Jean-Paul Gaultier. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 16:17, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, you may wish to edit the Annigoni article. I glanced at it and found that (like so many Wikipedia articles) it's terrible, largely dependent on a single entry (admittedly long and interesting) in somebody's blog. (If you edit it, please do so from published sources. Again, these don't have to be in English, and they don't have to be available on the internet.) -- Hoary (talk) 13:24, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I have a real problem in trying to understand what you told me. Therefore I tried something else, which is, to see, if anything of the actress Emmanuelle Béart is present on en.wikipedia. I found 'Manon des Sources,' a movie that mentions her straight away. This face is as obvious for this part of the world as a Marilyn Monroe in America. But for others Monroe may need references. Please help me with what is obvious or not obvious. Like I think that everybody knows who Abraham Lincoln was, but a portrait of the Spanish painter Sorolla of President Taft puzzled me, I did not know that Taft was also an American president. Sorry sounds really stupid. A few weeks ago Rich Farmbrough helped a lot with details to get this job done. Hope all efforts have not been in vain. Can portraits of persons mentioned-models or fashion houses- on Wiki Commons serve as a reference? Why can pictures on the official website not do (like the picture of Isabelle Adjani). The Sorolla article shows a lot of paintings. It is no problem to send more, but prefer to ask advice first. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 22:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * You seem upset by my possibly facetious comment on one particular sentence in the article. Here is the sentence:
 * Many self-portraits and portraits of actresses or ‘Haute-Couture’ models of Dior, Jean-Paul Gaultier, Yves Saint Laurent, like Isabelle Adjani playing in 'La Reine Margot', Emmanuelle Béart, from the french movie 'Une femme française', Carla Bruni, topmodel in the 90s of Yves Saint-Laurent and several other fashion-houses.
 * Except that it's not a sentence. Instead, it's a long, elaborate noun phrase. Should it perhaps start with "Heijermans has painted"? Anyway, it needs a verb.


 * That matter aside, it's not obvious to me that whom she/you painted is important. Is a portrait mentioned somewhere (or better, discussed)? If so, good -- whether the sitter is the future Mme Sarko or a benefits supervisor. (Incidentally, the fact that the latter sold for a lot of money is irrelevant here.) The more or less famous models of John Deakin are mentioned not (or less) because they're famous but instead because the photographs of them have been discussed. -- Hoary (talk) 13:24, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello Hoary, The thing that happens with this article has greatly upset me. I do understand it is your task to eliminate abusing people. Then you also apply the rules of course. I appreciate you have answered, so this I write again to explain the situation further. Paldopaldino is called Paolo Portmann. He lives like me in the village of Saint-Triphon. Now I never intended to work on an article about myself. It has BECOME like an autobiography. Therefore today I will try to get hold of Paolo, tell him I stop this. But now I ask you this serious question. Will you please consider that it has become this situation against my will. This is what happened: the village of Ollon is the Commune to which we in our village belong, like the ski station Villars sur Ollon. In 2008 the Syndic of Ollon sent the in 2009 edited book, written by Pierre Alain Genillard about my life as a painter to a minister of Culture of the Canton. The reason for this book was that I am getting old, and people were becoming interested in my life as an artist. The minister of Culture, madame Catherine Lyon chose to visit our village to celebrate the National Swiss day of the first of August right here, which collected a crowd on the hill near our medieval tower. To thank me the Syndic and the President Alain Mottier offered me the official website, realised by Paolo Portmann. Just have a look at the website Bienvenue a Ollon, you find it there. Myself I have no money. They also asked Paolo Portmann to see me and write a shortened article of what was written by Genillard in the book. Of which th number of ISBN is found in the references of the article now discussed. Paolo is capable to handle a computer well and do this job. I do not remember, that he ever discussed about the conditions, the rules of Wikipedia, he received pictures on a CD from me. Then he let me know by mail while traveling as a STEWARD on Swiss airplanes about the proceedings. I told you he wrote the article in french. There were since february 2011 red tags on it. He did not react, as probably he did not learn the rules maybe because of lack of time. My knowledge of a computer is very recent. I have an old age pension and artists are poor. So here I am after Paolo failed and the french deleted the article, in this mess of autobiography I do not want and besides cannot handle, since I started only in may 2011. Because with the economical situation in Switserland the schedules of planes have changed, Paolo is more gone and in the air than with his family. He said I could better be independent, and also does not master english well. I will in any case ask him to confirm what I tell you. Because I do not deserve the almost audible outcry from your side. I have done nothing dishonest, I often asked for help, we call that a 'parrain', somebody assisting. Because I cannot become ill with this. But I owe to all the people HERE in this region and to my friends and teachers that trusted me to now deal with Wikipedia. Taking over I DID read about exceptions, and after all, I had helped with translating in english, because my teachers apart from Annigoni were all Americans. And I raised 2 english daughters of my now deceased husband Nils Tellander, the reason I started young with english. Now the situation is absolutely out of hand for me. Just understand I am 75 1/2 and by myself. I have to continue painting each day as one can not stop if this was a mission since I was 15. I hope I can discuss this with other administrators. Because NOW it looked I did something very wrong. The discussion about copyright yes or no I cannot follow any more. I trust Paolo he would never take away from me copyrights or intentionally leave you astray, why should he. It bothers me, you have no idea how the life of an artist goes. Just look at how in France people from that Arles drove van Gogh up the wall. When he had no more money and discovered that his brother Theo suffered financial problems far away in Holland, he reproached himself to lean too much on his brother. People jeered at his red beard, he once threw his paintings towards them from the window. I now talk about van Gogh because in my country, that is a classic example of a Dutch person experiencing a foreign country, apart from the artist he was. I grew up with those 2 names, Rembrandt en van Gogh. Now apparently again in Wikipedia somebody creates another article about van Gogh, i just had a glimpse of that bridge. I painted one like that in the evening in Amsterdam, called the skinny bridge. Now I first must reach Paolo (Paldopaldino). He thinks I can handle this easily, he is absolutely not aware of what is now happening. I expect he will be shocked when he hears and will react as best as he can. Therefore I ask you, to at least review the article as it now has become. There is enormous sacrifice and time in it, I do trust you will consider that lately Rich Farmbrough helped and worked on it. You were just the last person to put tags on the article and I gave 'suite as best as possible. Greetings Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 08:49, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello Hoary, still going strong during the hellish weekend. I missed the verb in the fashion chapter, now even if you objected to me working in the article I think I will just start as you said with Heijermans..blahblah. I added references of the movie Une Femme Française. By the way all hell broke loose in some plane somewhere..poor guy did something like making the images public property. I could not care less, as long as he lands safely. I am not particularly a fan but funnily enough Carla went to boarding school and I saw the 13 year old in the jewelry shop of her friend and then recognized that face about 10 years later, when on the catwalk of Yves Saint Laurent. Now about the Circus Knie and their celebration in 2003 of 200-year existence. Somebody adds that I benefitted from a sale, which is all mistaken. As you know, that family has its headquarters in the Swiss Rapperswil. They make a tour through the country every year, and pass close to where I live. I already knew the family, because I was allowed to make sketches during the performance, and thought it a good idea to celebrate with them, and offer a painting I made of one of the main equestrian acts. If only I could include the letter of Directors Frédy and Franco Knie(elephant trainer). They thanked me in that letter, signed it and added that the painting would be given a place in the main Office in Rapperswil. Maybe I have again written in an awkward way about that. Will try to do better, but if you can introduce a better phrase with this info, please go ahead, you are a speed-champion. I would like to add one fashion picture of JPG, and one of Isabelle Adjani, cutting the picture of Queen Margot in half, as the redhead next to her (visible on the painting) is less important. But they got stuck, when I sent them. Seems trouble happens in Wikimedia. Greetings Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 16:24, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * You should limit your edits to the article to the correction of mistakes, the proper sourcing of assertions, rephrasing for clarity, etc. Further, an article on one person is not a suitable place for material about another person. The article on Annigoni is poor, relying on such utterly inadequate sources as somebody's blog; if you can augment or improve either that article or the one on Sorolla on the basis of what Wikipedia regards as reliable sources (not what you believe or even know is true, and not unpublished personal accounts, etc), then you are welcome to do so. &para; Also, you should attend to this, if you haven't already done so. --Hoary (talk) 00:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Hoary, Thus far all is enlightening. Thanks for answering Paldopaldino, he will appreciate it. Now I have a question for you. If all that 'stuff' about masters like Jesus Penarreal pointing towards Sorolla, or Annigoni with his secret recipes passed on the student I was, if that stuff is wiped from the article, then how can a reader explain where the know-how came from? Did a palette with Rowney, Mussini, Maimeri, Blockx or the handmade oil paint of Scheveningen come out of my sleeve as hocus-pocus? When I started painting at 16 I asked myself about van Gogh collecting Hokusai woodcuts, then why when painting his last cornfield with black crows, did he not remember the wisdom of the East ? Do you know that the french painter Nicolas de Staehl jumped out of the window to his death after an article in a newspaper? He was torn between abstract and figurative. Right in the middle of a pure abstract period his last painting was a big black grand piano. I just had no other teacher but Annigoni apart from school time prof painters and my heart aches, when it now looks I will become a SILENT witness of Annigoni's info existing nowhere than in my memory of this sombre person: he received me only because I could draw and this he cherished, the ability of drawing. Otherwise he would send people away. It is generally known that Annigoni prepared his own paint from powders, whether I write about it or not. But today his flake white has been replaced by titanium and zinc white. Both whites are very slow in drying and mixed make other colors not dry evenly. Recently I went to see Claude Monet's exhibit in the foundation of Gianadda, 20 minutes drive away. There were 2 paintings made in the same garden covered with snow, and one was cleaned, the other untouched. The dirty one showed heavy layers of a brownish sheen. No flake white there, yet they were from 1926. Suppose Annigoni's portrait of Queen Elisabeth would resist time that badly. Annigoni died in 1988, almost 60 years after Monet. But Renaissance paintings, the source of Annigoni's technique remain fresh with minuscule cracks hardly yellow or darkened. Why not for once accept the reference for Annigoni's teaching me in fact not with lessons, just a few blows with a hammer. This was Annigoni and it worked like when Anton Geesink jumped on top of the Japanese judo champion. I felt as frustrated, it was not normal but obvious. I hope that you get me. Sorry to have taken your time, but I meant to ask you might add in your way about Annigoni's impact on me until now and instead of chopping my tree into a poplar I am not, you might leave the branches of the article like on a willow tree, so that they may touch the water underneath. Thanks in advance for that glass of water, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 01:54, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the crux of what you write above is this:


 * I just had no other teacher but Annigoni apart from school time prof painters and my heart aches, when it now looks I will become a SILENT witness of Annigoni's info existing nowhere than in my memory of this sombre person [...]


 * English-language Wikipedia has some strange terminology. Strangely, what you're describing would come under the Wikipedia rubric of "original research". And Wikipedia has a simple rule, "No original research". If material about Annigoni has not been published, it may not be used. If it obviously deserves publication, I wish you all the best in the effort to have it published. But Wikipedia is not the place for first publication of this or anything else.


 * Here is a biographical article that I wrote. It is unexciting. "Sourcing" all its content was a major chore for me and does nothing to add to readability. Since I first created it, I've met the biographee several times. (Here in Tokyo, small exhibitions are numerous and the exhibitor is often present and happy to talk.) In conversation, I learned various things about his work that, as far as I know, haven't been published. I've inserted none of these. If I want to publish my own "research", I must do so elsewhere.


 * On your other point: en:WP has a (feeble) article on Daidō Moriyama. This tells us that Daidō Moriyama studied photography under Takeji Iwamiya before moving to Tokyo in 1961 to work as an assistant to Eikoh Hosoe. True. It would be permissible, I think, to amplify this slightly: Daidō Moriyama studied photography under Takeji Iwamiya, although Iwamiya's influence would rarely be visible, before [...]. I'm not going to make this change because, although I happen to know it's true, I don't have at hand a published source for the claim. But even a sourced claim made here about Iwamiya's work should be as concise as possible; the normal place to write about it is instead the article about Iwamiya. -- Hoary (talk) 03:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Hoary, I am content with your explanation about No original research. A bit of this experience with Annigoni is already present in the book about me written by Genillard. But you cleared my why's. Thanks also for sending the example of your article on Hiroh Kikai, where you explain that the personal impact for you when talking to him was not a wiki-thing. You call the article unexciting, I liked it. It accentuates the impact of destiny somehow and the simpicity about the how he became a photographer. I did not know, that so many books and other references can exist about a photographers work. For too long it was not even considered an art. In Switzerland there was Marcel Imsand, with little reference. He just had a Nikon and in different times. You are lucky to have been close to this talented Kikai, and yes, a line of what is wiki and what is your personal experience and emotion is another thing you can express in a book of your own.The prize of his Hasselblad 500CM that normally would cost Yen600,000 in 1969, which he bought for half that prize, how much was that then in dollars or other money? Greetings, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 13:10, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I hadn't heard of Imsand, but fr:WP does have a short article on him. Yes, you're right, for too long photography wasn't considered art; but now, the pendulum has I think swung too far the other way, as "art" is sometimes used to aggrandize what is, I think, uninteresting either as photography or as art. It's refreshing (for me, at least) when the photographer Rob Hornstra says that he thinks of himself less as a photographer than as a story-teller. The Hasselblad, well, it would have cost more than a year's salary for somebody who'd just graduated from university. I think that this is more meaningful than X dollars or Y euros. Anyway, it was effectively a huge sum. (The Hasselblad was never very popular, of course. By contrast, what amazes me is the number of, say, interchangeable-lens 35mm rangefinder cameras from Canon and Nikon that were sold within Japan in the 1950s; these sold well to amateurs even though they cost the equivalent of two months' salary or more.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:23, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I just got a small request from my son, apparently forgotten, now I do not think where we are now with the article (rather finished) that a small sentence announcing his birth in Lausanne on the 15th of march in 1960 can be needing references! In Switzerland he is my only family. Besides he has even attributed to the Official Website with the logo he for fun created. He added Design by Anyan. As a mother I feel bad, I had not noticed he was missing. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 18:37, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Richard Fitzwilliams
Hello again Hoary. The above appears to me to be another autobiography. In particular, the numerous contributions of user Dziadzia (see Special:Contributions/Dziadzia) and the few made by GeraldineSN are all edits to the article which is extremely self-promotional. Perhaps you could have a look at it and take any necessary action. - Ipigott (talk) 08:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Taking all the necessary action would, I fear, take my entire weekend. But I've raised a few questions there. -- Hoary (talk) 14:30, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Sensible suggestions. It was one of the strangest articles I have come across, especially the large number of edits by someone who has never done anything else on Wikipedia. - Ipigott (talk) 13:21, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Here's another one. It seems from this that "Kook2011" is well acquainted with Vivek Kumar Pandey. Now the latter is a familiar name; where could I have encountered it before? Ah yes, this editor, active in the bizarre history of the article (under any of numerous titles) on Prem Chand Pandey. -- Hoary (talk) 13:46, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

YGM
Just in case you don't check it every. bloomin. second. :) --Errant (chat!) 00:31, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Swietlan Kraczyna
Hi, I phoned Swietlan Kraczyna. He will correct mistakes and wrong dates in the article Swietl. Kracz. and will provide a list of students. His photos of the Flood of the river Arno in Florence received the prize Fiorino d'Oro and 10 of the 83 photos are kept in the Uffizi Museum of Florence. It is a high award for photography in Italy. His photos are only black/white. I hope he will write, he lacks the time and right now everybody is on holiday. He uses the computer at Syracuse University, where his e-mail address is to, as for some time he doesn't have his own. This to inform, that better information is on the way. Regards, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 23:09, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

For Your Nortification
Institute of Java and Software Engineering may be a non university type trade organization — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.43.206.156 (talk) 01:54, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * that's what I consider it also. The contributor has over a considerable period of time tried to add a number of articles on not just this, but on related individuals and topics.  DGG ( talk ) 03:17, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Adams
Please stop removing my requests for explanatory detail in the body of the article - if you have issues with my requests - discuss on talk - please stop reverting, thanks - Off2riorob (talk) 04:12, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Hoary, nice edit. --Fasttimes68 (talk) 05:50, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad that you like it. But now please lay off the article, even (or indeed especially) if somebody deletes the whole lot. Discussion is the way to go. -- Hoary (talk) 05:57, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. I just didnt understand why all the markups were done inside the article--Fasttimes68 (talk) 06:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That certainly was bizarre. "It was said" -- that is how you do it. But why ask for information when this same information is already (and I must say laboriously) provided in an adjacent footnote? Also strange is the way that Off2riorob demanded more and more information, then got it, and then deleted the result. Discussion is the way to go (even if all earlier discussion has been blanked). It's quite OK to say on a talk page that such and such a section is a mess, and that if it can be improved in a way that meets certain criteria (brevity among them) then it's OK, but if not then it should be removed. &para; But enough staring at my screen, I'm off to take a walk in sultry Tokyo. -- Hoary (talk) 06:13, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Meat puppet
I was going to let it go, but that guy has a lot of chutzpah. Is there a process to file a complaint for his accusation? Thanks. --Fasttimes68 (talk) 06:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd drop it. He's already moved on to speculating about at least other user's erections; I think somebody will sort him out in due time. Or perhaps he'll get a long night's sleep (I think he said he was going to bed) and wake refreshed and clear-headed. -- Hoary (talk) 07:09, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

ANI edit-conflict
Hi. You seem to have accidentally removed another editor's post probably due to an edit-conflict. Mathsci (talk) 07:20, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm very sorry about that; I was entirely unaware of the deletion at the time. I've now put the comment back in, of course. -- Hoary (talk) 07:25, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Sockpuppet report
I opened this report regarding OnlyGodTheFatherKnows. In the comments you seemed to have some doubts as to where they were obtaining their information, so I thougnt you would be interested.--Fasttimes68 (talk) 14:02, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for telling me but I don't plan to contribute. I will say though, that the short history of this "investigation" (or appeal for an investigation) is extraordinarily bizarre and confusing. If it was already closed before you arrived, you're probably better off starting something new. Indeed, ignoring a message that something is closed is soon interpreted as misbehavior. -- Hoary (talk) 14:18, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I mignt have done something wrong. Will anyone give me crap if i submit it again?--Fasttimes68 (talk) 14:22, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked to see what other edits you may have made, but probably you can extricate yourself by (1) self-reverting with an informative and mildly apologetic edit summary; (2) reading a lot about how these investigations are launched; (3) writing the whole thing up "offline"; (4) using the preview button and checking and checking and checking; (5) launching it. NB you are perceived as having an agenda here, so you'd better err on the side of caution, modesty, etc. As for me, I've had enough of SA-talk for several lifetimes (or at least for one day) so I'm going to turn the computer off and go to bed. Good night! -- Hoary (talk) 14:30, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Yep
She unfortunately does that. FuFoFuEd (talk) 06:12, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm lost for words. -- Hoary (talk) 08:03, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not: and   DGG ( talk ) 03:23, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Dougweller (talk) 06:04, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Please semi
I've been dealing with continual addition of promotional material from SPAs on Michelangelo Baracchi Bonvicini and Atomium Culture -- this has been a longterm project of theirs-- could you semi-protect for a good while, perhaps a year or so--I don't want to do it myself. (Perhaps I'm over-scrupulous.)  DGG ( talk ) 03:24, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ugh, yes, I agree. But I too have erred on the side of caution, sprotecting for just three months. If the silliness restarts at the end of this and I don't notice, please alert me; of course I'll be happy to extend the sprotection. &para; Um . . . I can't now find the approved way to add the little silver padlock to the top right of the article; could you please do this? -- Hoary (talk) 03:48, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Ban advocation
I thought you should be aware that someone is advocating that you be banned from editing here. Fasttimes68 (talk) 17:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)


 * This particular "someone" has a remarkably familiar-looking pattern of editing. How unsurprising. Still, thank you for letting me know. -- Hoary (talk) 05:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Murder of Junko Furuta
Hello Hoary. I hope you are well. Please, would you mind to take a look at this article? There's a lot of unclear information and we need someone who is able to read Japanese (you are, as far as I can remember) and possibly could help us to find reliable sources written in Japanese. The article (as the name suggests) is not about art or photography, it describes a horrible murder committed in Japan in November/January, 1988. I left a comment at Talk:Murder_of_Junko_Furuta, maybe it could be useful as an introduction. I asked also at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Japan, but my question remains - for the time being - unanswered. ... I don't want to bother you, so feel free to ignore my request if you don't want to work on it. Best regards, and thanks. Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 07:47, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It does indeed appear that there are books published on the subject. Whether the books are any good is something that I don't know offhand, but they do come from publishers that have put out other material that's worthwhile. Perhaps some level headed person -- one with some degree of serious interest in criminology or psychopathology, not some birdbrain or psychopath -- can be persuaded to read one of the books and deal with the matter intelligently and scrupulously. But me, no, sorry, I'm busy with other matters. -- Hoary (talk) 23:59, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, you helped a lot and I don't want to force you to read the books. Initially, I planned to delete all the unreferenced claims, but I thought it would be better to ask for help someone who can read Japanese letters. I found the article by chance and I was surprised that it is a free playground for jokers who irresponsibly mislead the readership. The article is now in a better shape and I watch it. Thank you. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 09:46, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Olympus
Can I interest you in writing about the Olympus scandal? I've already lined up many sources to be used in building the article. -- Ohconfucius  ¡digame! 09:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry but no. The wonders worked by the invisible hand in that pinnacle of Civilization, Free Enterprise, are far beyond my feeble powers of comprehension. (What, I hear somebody whispering that this was not Free Enterprise but instead white-collar crime. But that's impossible, because this was and is a long-established, famous Japanese company. Shoot the messenger!) -- Hoary (talk) 13:37, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Life beyond?
Are you implying there is Life beyond Wikipedia? Oh, obviously not, it's redlinked. Gerardw (talk) 15:18, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I think I located some, but it could turn out to be merely a Uri Geller–style hoax. Still investigating..... Hoary (talk) 00:28, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

ICSID Review: Foreign Investment Law Journal
Hi Hoary, it's been a while since we interacted here (and I changed names since). I see you have ascended the lofty heights of adminship, so perhaps I can ask you to use the tools a bit: it looks like this article was created as a cut-and-paste move from ICSID Review, so a history merge seems appropriate. Can you do that? I suggest that this should be done at the shorter title, as we generally only put subtitles if we need a disambiguator (and even then we often use other dabs, I think; note that DGG thinks it should be the other way around, so I leave you the choice :-). Thanks! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 09:24, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm puzzled, in that it appears that it's been a couple of days since the article with the shorter title was turned into a redirect to the one with the longer title: you're asking me to do something that has already been done. OTOH it's past my bedtime and my brain is none too agile. If something does need to be done, I'm afraid that it will have to wait a number of hours if I'm to do it; better to ask somebody else. Good night! -- Hoary (talk) 14:23, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You do need sleep! (The shorter article was redirected in December 2010...) I'll ask somebody else, good night! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 14:33, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup, I did indeed. A "history merge", hmm, I've heard of them but have never investigated. Has anyone taken this up? (He asks, rather hoping for the answer "yes".) -- Hoary (talk) 14:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The answer is yes, the deed has been done! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 14:55, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Splendid, splendid. -- Hoary (talk) 15:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)