User:Ipigott/Archive 20

Anna Quinquaud
Hi. I added a source to your stub above. I hope I did not mess up your editing with conflicts. I'll stop for the moment to let you edit. I did find this picture of her; not sure if it is usable per public domain. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 17:35, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your edit. I'll be expanding the article tomorrow but please feel free to continue editing now. It would be great if you could add your image.--Ipigott (talk) 17:38, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll look into the copyright when I get a chance. There seems to be a lot of material in French archives and museums. Extremely notable, good find! ThatMontrealIP (talk) 17:44, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Photo added, but please do see format it as you see fit!ThatMontrealIP (talk) 00:03, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Draft of ideas for project page
Hi. you had asked me to prepare a proposal to present to others at WikiProject Council, to explain the changes that i wish to make, and to get their feedback and input, on what they think of the ideas.

I have prepared a brief, concise draft below.by the way, I have made a sub-section break for this draft, just to make it easier to edit; obviously, if you wish to remove the section break, that is totally up to you.

could you please let me know what you think? thanks!!
 * Make page more accessible for editing; make it more inviting for members of active WikiProjects to come there and participate
 * remove decorative images on section breaks on main page; replace them with regular section breaks which allow users to edit easily
 * Provide links to web pages, databases or resources, that provide data on which WikiProjects are active.
 * Provide links to specific WikiProjects, or names of specific coordinators, where editors can obtain input on how to manage WikIprojects
 * Provide links to the WikiProjects that are most active
 * group WikiProject links by subject area
 * Provide names of a few of the WIkiProject coordinators who are most active, in order to enable others to request their feedback
 * Provide sections or pages where WikiProjects can provide updates on their efforts, or hold discussions about current methods and developments
 * this could be a sub-page of the project page, or it could be a shared workspace on a talk page.
 * this could be a sub-page of the project page, or it could be a shared workspace on a talk page.

ok. what do you think? I have deliberately kept this very concise. I can add to it if you wish.

Also, for discussion of this proposal, there are various options as to where to discuss this. if you wish, I could set up a shared talk page in my own user space. or I could make it a sub-page of the WikiProject Council; however, before I would add any pages there, I would need at least some other editors who wish me to do so. Any options for this is fine with me.

Could you please let me know what you think of the ideas above? does this accord with what you wish me to present there? you had indicated a while back that you had some agreement with some ideas. I am willing to adjust or revise these in any way that you might wish. feel free to let me know which parts need changes, or need expansion, or need condensing; whatever you prefer is totally fine. I appreciate your help. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 18:16, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Dorothy Thomas (entrepreneur)
Can you work your magic on her? It needs to have British spelling, for which I am inept. Any ideas on what could possibly be used as images? If you are swamped, no worries. SusunW (talk) 00:07, 5 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you can use something from here.--Ipigott (talk) 13:51, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I love that map of the whole area! Thank you, I'll do some more searching on commons too, to see what I might come up with. SusunW (talk) 14:23, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I didn't find anything usable on commons, but I did find some photos in the London Illustrated News from 1888 and put them on commons. Yay! I also finished the article on Thomas' daughter, if you'd like to give it a once over: Dorothea Christina Thomas. SusunW (talk) 19:05, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe you can also use images from here.--Ipigott (talk) 07:20, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I've been through Dorothea Christina Thomas. There was very little to edit but I found it rather confusing that you have used "Gordon" to refer to her and "John" to refer to John Gordon. I wondered if it would be better in some cases to use "Christina" (or even "Christina Gordon") and "John Gordon" for clarity's sake. I think you are technically correct to use her "married surname" once she started to use it herself but the change from "Thomas" to "Gordon" upsets the flow. I'll leave any changes up to you.--Ipigott (talk) 10:08, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll admit it was a hard one to make it clear who was who. Since it is talking about their relationship so much, both of them appear far more often than a husband would otherwise. Then there was the whole problem with her mother being Dorothy Thomas, which I figured that referring to her by her surname or first name would also be confusing. Thanks for the review, I'll go back over it and see if I can make it more clear. SusunW (talk) 14:40, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Idea for new community workspace
Hi. I would like to create some kind of collaborative workspace where coordinators or members of various WikiProjects would gather and provide updates and information on what is going on at each wikiproject, i.e. regarding their latest efforts, projects, and where interested editors can get involved.

You have been very helpful, so I wanted to get your brief input on whether you'd be interested in helping me to make this happen. I see a few possible options for making this happen, so I would like to get your input and feedback on this. which of the options below would you prefer? also, please reply to the brief questions below.


 * Would you be interested in an idea of this nature?
 * If so, which option below seems most feasible to you?
 * Create a new page/talk page at the existing WikiProject Council, where members of various WikiProject can gather to offer updates, information and ideas on the latest efforts at each of their own WikiProject, such as WikiProject Council/Town Hall.
 * Create an entirely new WikiProject with an inclusive name such as
 * WIkiProject Town Hall,
 * WikiProject Bulletin Board,
 * WikiProject Water Cooler
 * Create a new collaborative page or forum, but not as a new WIkiProject, i.e. with some name like
 * Town Hall or
 * Water Cooler
 * Create a new sub-page in my own userspace, such as User:Sm8900/Town Hall
 * Create a subpage at an umbrella-type WikiProject that already covers a broad topical area, such as WikiProject History/Town Hall

Please feel free to let me know what you think of this idea, and please let me know your preference, regarding the options above. if you do not see any need for this idea, that is totally fine. However, I think that the majority of editors lack awareness of where the truly active editing is taking place and at which WikiProjects, and I would like to do whatever I can to help make people more aware of where the activity is, what they can do to help, and also which areas of Wikipedia offer ideas and efforts that might help them in their own editing activities. Please feel free to let me know. --Sm8900 (talk) 05:19, 9 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for informing me of your plans. Since the beginning of the year, you have come up with a variety of ideas in connection with WikiProject Council and WikiProject History. Initally I tried to offer support but was disappointed to see that interest did not extend to other editors. I have a feeling this may once again be the case here. I have begun to wonder whether the best way to draw attention to successful wikiprojects might not be to add items about them to Signpost or to have sessions on them included in Wikimedia conferences. As for Women in Red, we already have a pretty active discussion forum at our Ideas cafe. Nevertheless, if you are able to muster real support from at least six other editors, it may be worthwhile starting a new initiative along the lines you propose. But I should point out from the start that I am not able to devote much time to yet another venture. I'm always tied up with existing assignments. Of the options you suggest above, I think it would be best to start with something in your user space. By the way, you may be interested to hear that we have now decided to upgrade Women in Green to a wikiproject in its own right.--Ipigott (talk) 07:26, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks!! your feedback is extremely helpful. I will put you down as favoring a page in my own user space. as far as other editors go, the problem prior to this was that we never presented this idea by simply starting with the options as to where to put it. all we did was offer ideas on how to change WikiProject Council,. Since the problem there is that we need a consensus before we can make any changes at all, the best way to start is by making a new resource whereever others might want it, and then hold discussions after that as to where we shoiuld make any changes to existing changes.


 * I am going to tabulate the answers received on a page in my own userspace. I will also copy and paste people's replies including yours. I hope that's okay; if it isn't let me know. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 12:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * hi. this idea is now receiving a full and active discussion! you can participate at: Village_pump_(proposals). thanks!!  --Sm8900 (talk) 16:17, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi. the proposal above has been fully withdrawn and discontinued. if you wish, feel free to archive this talk page section, or else erase it entirely. thanks.  --Sm8900 (talk) 12:10, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

note re your group efforts and projects
Hi Ipigott ! thanks so much for your recent post at Village Pump, regarding current group efforts at WP:Women in Red. As you may know, I am trying to develop an idea for a new community forum and bulletin board, that would help editors from differet WikIProjects to share information and ideas about current group efforts that they are part of. .

I am writing to ask for your help with this new idea. could you please draft a notice for editors to help out at the group effort that you referred to there? I think your main focus was various methods at Women in Red to promote article improvement and joint effort, such as contests,the need to improve articles on the Third World, and building interest in current developments such as elections or world conferences Feel free to add any other items, if I left anything out.

This is in order to post this info at the new user:Sm8900/community forum, if that's okay? and please feel free to add any comments, thoughts, or insights, to let us know more about the great efforts that you have been considering.

I am looking for editor events and group projects that I could post to post there, in order to get things rolling., my new approach to this is to approach editors individually, and request input and items from that we can post there, in order to get things rolling, and provide some content to show what we are trying to do. could you please let me know if that sounds okay to you? I really appreciate it. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 14:53, 12 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I am not too keen to contribute to your evolving sites until they show signs of acceptance and stability. Since 15 January, you have been extremely active on this page with one new proposal after another. While I wish you well with your ideas, I am really too busy with everything else to follow up on each new variation. Let's leave it for a month or two and see how things work out.--Ipigott (talk) 15:12, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * that sounds totally fine. I totally understand your point on this, and I totally get where you are coming from. I am very glad you took the time to write and to let me know how you feel. I will keep everything that you said in mind. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 15:16, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Review
So I have finished with the parts I am comfortable with and now have entered uncharted territory. Can you look over what I have done and make sure I'm good with what I have done so far?

The links to the Monticello database go to a search engine. Is that acceptable? We have sources 15, 17, 22, 27, 34, 36 which tie to the Monticello database, which does not seems to be a significant portion of primary sources when there are over 40 citations in the article, but the MOS does say the information should be confirmed by secondary sources if that is possible. For example, 15 could be confirmed by, 17 is already backed up by 18, 22 appears to not have a secondary source to confirm it, 27 is confirmed by and 34 & 36 are confirmed by the amount and names. Is this overkill, or do I need to ask for the database entries to be supplemented if they can be?

I think if I can figure this last bit out and read through the final changes it passes. Do you concur or is there something I have missed? SusunW (talk) 20:20, 13 February 2020 (UTC)


 * For a GA, I think the references to the Monticello DB are sufficient but it might be useful if you pointed out that there are other secondary sources (as you have above). References to databases are certainly acceptable and I don't really think that Monticello can be considered simply as a primary source for a historical article.


 * You have done an excellent job on the review, not just in the formal assessment process but by making a considerable number of constructive suggestions. As a result, the article is now significantly better and Carole is obviously pleased to have benefited from your assistance. I hope you found this an interesting experience. If so, you might like to take on other reviews of articles which seem to match your field of interest.


 * The only remaining problems with the article can be resolved with some minor copy editing which I would be happy to do after the review has been completed.--Ipigott (talk) 07:36, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so very much. Totally appreciate your help. SusunW (talk) 15:23, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Elisabeth Samson
I found this crazy poorly written stub and was totally fascinated. It could benefit from your eyes if you have time. SusunW (talk) 01:26, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * You've done a fine job on this one and it looks like another good candidate for GA. But I think it needs an illustration for the lead - maybe the 1737 map if you can't find anything else.--Ipigott (talk) 12:09, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for your help, Ian. I sort of stumbled across the photos I found. Wasn't able to search commons and find anything. I agree it should have something in the lede. I'll see what I can find. SusunW (talk) 16:16, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not finding much, (oh how I wish I could find the letter she signed that said I am a free-born Negress") but there is a cutout of the section of that map that deals with Paramaribo. The article on her house in nl.WP shows it is on the corner of Wagenwegstraat, Malebatrumstraat and Heerenstraat. Unfortunately on our map the north-south streets aren't marked, but on another map, I discovered that Malebatrumstraat is the n-s street running for 2 blocks only (below the R and starting south at D). The only way I can see her house being on a corner of all 3 streets is that corner across from D. I think I could have the graphics lab mark that corner. Would that be an acceptable lede image? SusunW (talk) 17:40, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe. Otherwise it might be easier just to include an old photo of the street such as this, where her house is on the one up the street on the right hand side.--Ipigott (talk) 19:24, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, got sidetracked yesterday trying to get all those medical receipts together for my taxes. Huge job, but now it's done. I'm back on this today and we'll see where I get. SusunW (talk) 14:36, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

February flowers
A late Valentine for you: a bird that is normally only heard, acting on stage (well, it was the right balcony, to be precise, for most of the time, until she walked with Siegfried, carrying a little backpack) - the last reminiscence of the impossible made possible. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:57, 19 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much, . Very kind and considerate of you. We have about a hundred erantis in our garden in Luxembourg but they are far more common in Denmark. They are already past their best this year as it's been warmer than usual but we still have lots of snowdrops and crocuses. As for the bird, as usual you have done a fine job on Julia Bauer. Good to see you are also covering "living" opera singers.--Ipigott (talk) 16:33, 19 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you, - I prefer the living even ;) - When I wanted to enter her for WIR, she was already there, and probably thanks to you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:41, 19 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Today's Alte Liebe became especially meaningful after yesterday's funeral. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:32, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * thank you for consistently updating the WIR DYK achievements, borrowing her smile --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:37, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Elisabeth Dieudonné Vincent Tinchant
I have found my next victim and think that possibly this gives both her birth date and death date? I do not understand why the middle name is Deodata in the death record, but given that it shows her name, her husband's name, her mother's name and birthplace in Saint-Domingue, I'm sure it is my lady. (You don't have to pay, but you do have to register to see the record). Can you confirm that I am correct that this is her death record and the dates/places it gives for those events? Thanks! SusunW (talk) 19:08, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I couldn't get into the site.--Ipigott (talk) 19:21, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, more than one way to work around that. I snipped it and e-mailed it to you. SusunW (talk) 19:30, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's definitely her. Deodata is a Dutch given name. The date of the death certificate is 1 December 1883. I'm not very good at interpreting the handwriting but I think it says she was 85 years old, born in St Domingo, lived in Haiti, widow of Jacobus Tinchant, daughter of Rosalig Vincent. Some reference to Ludovicus Francisus Tinchant 58 years and Franciscus Ernestus Tinchant 44 years, both merchants. In the LH margin, I think it says Rubenslei 4, born 1798. The certificate is from Antwerp. One of the signatures is François Ernest Tinchant. Hope that helps.--Ipigott (talk) 20:30, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Deodata is the same as Dieudonné.--Ipigott (talk) 20:25, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I was pretty sure I had found the correct record. Too many of the same names to be someone else. As always, your language skills are appreciated. SusunW (talk) 20:33, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Not just language but old Germanic cursive handwriting. I look forward to the full article.--Ipigott (talk) 20:43, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's very difficult. Since you can confirm that Dieudonné and Deodata are the same seems to me there is no doubt. I think it was registered 1 December and that she actually died in November at "three and a half hours in the afternoon", but the actual date, I cannot make out. Just looks like a blob. But, that being said, I'm quite happy to have found years on her that are confirmed in an actual record :). SusunW (talk) 20:54, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * You're quite right, 1 December is the date of registration. The date of death could well be 29 November but as you say it looks more like a blob.--Ipigott (talk) 06:53, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I've finished with the text. Haven't even begun to make a stab at looking for images. A couple of genealogical sites confirm the 29 November, so I'm going with that ;). If you have the time, I am sure it could use your skill in a copy edit. SusunW (talk) 23:11, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Is this her? Would have to be loaded fair use, which I don't have a problem with, but I cannot read the text at the bottom. This is from 1885, no clue what it says, but definitely it is talking about the cigar business of the Tinchant brothers. What do you think about the photos? I don't think any belong to our family until page 449, but not being able to read the text hampers my evaluation. I'm also not sure about just using an ebay image of their cigar bands. Obviously it was advertising, and obviously printed and mass distributed, but does that constitute publication? SusunW (talk) 16:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The first photo is definitely her. Well found! There's absolutely no reason why you should make it fair use. She died in 1883 so the photo is at least 140 years old, probably more like 160. It's therefore a clear PD wherever it was taken (maybe Belgium). According to the website, it belongs to war diaries from 1914 to 1918 belonging to Raphaël Waterschoot of Sint Niklaas (a town in Belgium). You can see the full description here. It apparently was a gift from Philippe Struyf, a member of the family. The photos below show how big the factory was. There also this link. I'm not too sure which photo(s) you're interested in from the book but they don't look very useful to me.--Ipigott (talk) 17:24, 22 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The article looks reallt good now with the illustrations. Time for GA!--Ipigott (talk) 20:56, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ian. Still trying to find a photo for the French part, could find nada for Cuba in the period. I was also wondering if I should upload the clip of her death record, since the theme of the article is how important documents were in their life. Your thoughts? SusunW (talk) 21:04, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * More real illustrations would be good but hardly the death certificate. I always find it is rather morbid to find illustrations of graves, tombs and death certificates in our biographies. Maybe another legal document of some kind if you can find one. Otherwise pretty historic pictures of the places mentioned in the article.--Ipigott (talk) 21:14, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * How about this old map of Haiti/Santo Domingo?--Ipigott (talk) 21:25, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Woman in Green
Hello,

I have another article for Woman in Green, Rebecca Lee Crumpler that I nominated for GA. I didn't start it, but I did a lot of work on in years ago and then a fair amount of work in the last day or so. Is this a good candidate for WP:Women in Green?–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:43, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I vote yes SusunW (talk) 23:13, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks !–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:17, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Someone already added it to Women in Green, so I guess we're good to go, as far as the nomination is concerned.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:26, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * There's certainly no requirement to have it listed on Women in Green in order to nominate it. But it's useful to keep track on what's in the queue.--Ipigott (talk) 06:44, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I've done a bit of copy editing on the article. For a GA, there should be no refs in the lead. You should upgrade their equivalents in the body of the article to first occurrences. Otherwise everything looks pretty good.--Ipigott (talk) 07:26, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Excellent! You always add a nice polish. Thanks much!–CaroleHenson (talk) 08:48, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

European challenge
Hi, I merged the Turkey entries into it, i'd forgotten about that. It's jumped a 1000 odd now! Can you split the entries 3000-4000 onto a page like the others. I mixed up the Turkey articles a bit, some of them were done a few years ago, it might be best to move them to earlier in the lists. If you don't object we may as well merge the remaining Nordic ones now and just keep it as one list, Ramblersen isn't as active now and it's easier to keep track of on one page. I don't know when the last Nordic entry was merged, I know you've been adding entries fairly regularly. Thanks!♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:04, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge
Hi, I merged the Turkey entries into it, i'd forgotten about that. It's jumped a 1000 odd now! Can you split the entries 3000-4000 onto a page like the others. I mixed up the Turkey articles a bit, some of them were done a few years ago, it might be best to move them to earlier in the lists. If you don't object we may as well merge the remaining Nordic ones now and just keep it as one list, Ramblersen isn't as active now and it's easier to keep track of on one page. I don't know when the last Nordic entry was merged, I know you've been adding entries fairly regularly. Thanks!♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:05, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Do
 * OK. I'll look at this tomorrow. Some time ago, I tried to update both the Nordic and the European challenge with articles of mine that were missing. It's increasingly important to include Turkey now that Wikipedia access has been restored there. I don't think it matters much where the articles are placed as long as they are included. Both Ramblersen and I lost interest in the Nordic challenge when we reached the first milestone and there were no reactions. If you are going to show interest again, we might be able to attract a number of former contributors. I think we should maintain both the Nordic and the European challenge.--Ipigott (talk) 16:36, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I've always been interested in this but I can't commit to doing this full time long term. I get bored with doing something for too long and too consistently, even music! I think it's best to merge the Nordic challenge as I'm only likely to do the odd article. If we had at least 4 active contributors it would be worthwhile. I know in the past we had several people doing churches etc.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:50, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Archived it for you!♦ Dr. Blofeld  17:52, 25 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I see you made the 3000 split yourself. I'll add recent articles to the European Challenge later.--Ipigott (talk) 08:09, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Moved down the village to the bottom main list, you're not competing for prizes right? Thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:07, 1 March 2020 (UTC)


 * No, I'm not competing for prizes but now I have no idea how to list my next one. It's a park! What is "foo"?

Ask. :-) ♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:22, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Look at the bottom of the contest page, that's how it is done, very straightforward.♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:22, 1 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your rapid response which did not really answer my foo question. I hadn't realized it would be so difficult to answer but perhaps it just means an English or other icon flag. Do you really mean I have to go right to the bottom of the page to see how to list an article? Not at all easy. Maybe I can just list any new destubs there (including women's biographies?) rather than where I added Wolviston. I had intended to add quite a few geographical articles but maybe it's better for me to get back to creating new women's biographies. It's obviously far more important to let the "real competitors" get on with it all. I'll add mine when the contest is over in order not to upset things. Sorry to be such a bother. I can see it's all going pretty well for all the others so don't worry about me. I think you're doing a great job on the geographical front. Even though the prizes are quite small, they are obviously attractive.--Ipigott (talk) 15:54, 1 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I didn't add the foo thing, Pam did. Do whatever you're happy doing, but adding articles to the bottom list is no different to adding them to the challenge pages except stating county of birth or location..♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:07, 1 March 2020 (UTC)


 * OK. I'll add the next ones directly to the bottom of the page. Sorry about the foo. Maybe you should simply delete it.--Ipigott (talk) 16:12, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Maryana Iskander, Social Entrepreneur
Thanks for welcoming me to WIR. Here's the first draft article that we've been working on:Draft:Maryana_Iskander. Is it possible for you to take a quick look and provide a quick read of whether we're on the right track? JRandomF (talk) 02:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)


 * You are certainly on the right track. I've moved the article to mainspace. I hope there will be many more. Let me know if you need further assistance.--Ipigott (talk) 09:07, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Cleanup
Hi, this is more than just destubbing, it's cleaning up articles too and ensuring it is fully sourced, no unsourced paragraphs etc. The recent one you did had some odd inline external linking.♦ Dr. Blofeld  17:05, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your efficient checking. It was over C on ORES but apparently we're not taking that into account. I agree that there was a paragraph without an inline ref at the end. I've deleted it but at least it's no longer listed as a stub..--Ipigott (talk) 17:14, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Berta Pereira for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Berta Pereira is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Berta Pereira until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Less Unless (talk) 11:37, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Marie Rennotte
Hello! Your submission of Marie Rennotte at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 15:57, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , : I can apparently not touch the DYK text but I would suggest "...that the Belgian teacher and physician Marie Rennotte (pictured) became a women's rights proponent in Brazil?" {cc ) --Ipigott (talk) 16:46, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with the original wording? She was a vice president of the Paulistan Alliance for Women's Suffrage. Yoninah (talk) 16:54, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Then you could call her a suffragist but I don't think there's any evidence of her demonstrating as a suffragette. See here.--Ipigott (talk) 16:58, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * How about:
 * ... that the Belgian teacher and physician Marie Rennotte (pictured) became a women's rights activist in Brazil? Yoninah (talk) 17:04, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Fine with me - and you can use the wikilink.--Ipigott (talk) 17:10, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you both. SusunW (talk) 17:23, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Kateryna Skarzhynska
Fascinating woman. I think her whole family probably merits WP articles. (Maybe knows someone who is interested in Russian military history?—the von Reisers served in almost every military conflict from Peter the Great's defeat of Sweden to the Seige of Warsaw. There's a whole chapter on them in "А.Д.Бутовского ВОСПОМИНАНИЯ / РУССКАЯ СТАРИНА, С-ПЕТЕРБУРГ, 1915г, Т.164." pp. 96-146 (correlates to PDF pages 105-155) and then a bunch in Астряб, Матвей Григорьевич  (1923). "Общественные заслуги Райзеров" [Reiser Public Service. История Полтавы (in Ukrainian). Ukraine: Бориса Тристанова.], but one has to speak/read Russian to read the first one.) At any rate, can you give this one a copyedit? As always, the transliteration of names is confusing and I haven't yet looked for any other photos. SusunW (talk) 19:33, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, I found a fairly good selection of photos. SusunW (talk) 00:08, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Another good discovery. Maybe would be interested in including it in DYK for Women's History Month. Looks as if it could immediately be nominated for GA.--Ipigott (talk) 11:00, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * As always, you improved it significantly. Thank you so much. She was a pretty amazing find. I do hope that someone along the way looks into her family for articles. They were equally interesting. I've nominated it for GA. SusunW (talk) 14:37, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Merete Erbou Laurent
Hi Ipigott, I'm delighted to see more articles on people in the textiles, but I'm concerned about naming children and giving their birth dates, for privacy reasons. I have removed the names and dates from Merete Erbou Laurent, leaving 'had two children'. If you object to my concerns, return the information to the article (but please don't just revert because I disambiguated a couple of terms.). Leschnei (talk) 13:58, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I looked to see if there is any current policy on this. The best that I could find is WP:BLPNAME - "The presumption in favor of privacy is strong in the case of family members of articles' subjects and other loosely involved, otherwise low-profile persons." Leschnei (talk) 14:03, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * : Thank you for taking an interest in my articles and raising the problem of privacy in connection with the children of the subjects of the biographies of living persons. I must say this is the first time my attention has been drawn to this issue. I quickly checked the articles you have created yourself and discovered that in Alice_Ames_Winter (not in fact a BLP) children are also mentioned (although the addition was made by and they are probably no longer living). In the case of Erbou Laurent, the main source I drew on is  from the highly reliable Danish Kvinfo (Dansk Kvindebiografisk Leksikon or Danish Biographical Directory of Women). You will see the children are clearly mentioned near the beginning of the biography and also later in the text. Other established Danish and Scandinavian sources (e.g. Dansk Biografisk Leksikon) also systematically give details of family and children. It seems to me to be strange to disallow this information in Wkipedia when it is clearly presented in other established sources. If it is indeed the case that children should not be mentioned in biographies, then I'll have to go back over more than 1,000 articles and make sure their names are removed. I see however that your BLPNAME source also states "The names of any immediate, former, or significant family members or any significant relationship of the subject of a BLP may be part of an article, if reliably sourced." I would argue that children are immediate family members in the case of Erbou Laurent. As she was married twice, it is also important to explain who was the father of each. If you think this issue is important, then it should probably be discussed elsewhere for comment and clarification. For the time being, I'll leave Erbou Laurent without the children's names but I would be interested to receive further reactions. It would also be interesting to know whether you have been deleting children's names from other biographies and if so how the editors concerned have reacted.--Ipigott (talk) 14:52, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your thoughtful reply and for not taking offense at my concern - I think that I have may a bit too quick on the 'Publish' button which is what led me to leave the message here to begin with. I haven't been removing childrens' names as a rule and I don't believe that there is a hard-and-fast policy either way. For people who live their live in the limelight, like rock stars and actors, their family details are so widely known that I think it would be silly for Wikipedia to claim to be protecting their privacy. And for people whose children are dead, I have no concerns. What strikes me with Merete Erbou Laurent (and other articles) is that she is notable but not famous, and her children are neither (as far as I know). As you stated, the information is already out there and it is reliably sourced, but sometimes it just occurs to me that private people may not appreciate having their private details even more widely disseminated. That's just me, so put them back if you wish, and I won't object any further. Leschnei (talk) 15:06, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * : Now that you have brought this up, I'll bear it in mind for future biographies. It seems to me it is not really just an issue for BLPs as non-notable living children can also be mentioned in biographies of people who are no longer alive. I have nevertheless quite often noticed that the people I write about have been briefly mentioned as children in other biographies. In such cases, I include wikilinks. If their names are removed, wikilinks are of course no longer so easy to add. But I can see there might indeed be privacy issues of concern in some cases. I suppose each case needs to be taken on its own merits. I see you are interested in textile artists. I've recently covered quite a few and will be writing about more, especially from Denmark and the other Scandinavian countries. If you know of any which deserve to be covered, please let me know. Thanks also for sorting out the disambs in Erbou Laurent. I usually wait for the bot to alert me.--Ipigott (talk) 15:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll definitely keep you in mind if I run across any textile artists that I think you could write about, especially since I'm restricted to English! Leschnei (talk) 16:17, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, . I tend to agree with Ipigott on this matter but like all things, there will be gray areas so if there are further conversations about including/excluding children's names (especially if the subject is a BLP) elsewhere, do consider pinging me. Though I rarely create a BLP (I commonly focus on pre-20th-century women), the issue of a subject's children, particularly if the children are living, is worth bearing in mind. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:00, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Will do, though I'm not sure why I got this particular bee in my bonnet today. Leschnei (talk) 23:54, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Marie Rennotte
— Maile (talk) 00:01, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Grace Kodindo
— Maile (talk) 00:01, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Angelina Atyam
— Maile (talk) 00:02, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Dorothy Thomas (entrepreneur)
— Maile (talk) 00:01, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Much appreciated. I saw the editor also uploaded an image on Commons which could be added to the article.--Ipigott (talk) 21:22, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , I don't see the uploaded image on Commons. What am I missing? --ToniSant (talk) 16:37, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my bad memory. It was not actually on Commons but somewhere else (url deleted for archiving). It can obviously be uploaded and added to the article.--Ipigott (talk) 16:49, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Patsy Mink
I "think" I have adequately covered her career, removed the misinformation and cleaned up the citations. I've asked for help with the photos, as most aren't usable without more clarification on them. Can you give it a copyedit and advise if you think the lede covers the high points? Thanks! SusunW (talk) 23:42, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It certainly covers all the high points, possibly at times in rather too much detail. The sentence "While in Congress in the late 1960s, she introduced the first comprehensive initiatives under the Early Childhood Education Act, which included the first federal child-care bill and bills establishing adult education initiatives, Asian studies, bilingual education, career guidance programs, Head Start, school lunch programs, special education, student loans, teacher sabbaticals, and vocational education." is particularly complex with its long string of details. Maybe you could simplify it as: "In the late 1960s, she introduced the first comprehensive initiatives under the Early Childhood Education Act, including the first federal child-care bill and several bills addressing adult education, Asian studies, school lunches and vocational training." You could even cut it into two sentences. Just a suggestion.--Ipigott (talk) 09:42, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * You've done an excellent job on this. As it's so long, it would be good to include more illustrations. GA first, FA later.--Ipigott (talk) 12:34, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. Such an influential and prominent figure, especially with regard to civil rights. I figure if we are going for FA, there will be a whole lot of changes. I was trying to show how many levels of the US educational system she had a hand it. Hard to summarize such a long career. :P And yes, we need usable photos. I was so hoping someone would help with that, but it doesn't appear that I'm going to get help with them. Gamaliel found one, but I am very unsure of the rules on Congress people. How do we know it was taken with regard to their official duties by a staff photographer? That to me is a huge question. Will see what I can do today. SusunW (talk) 14:29, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * There's no rush on this. I'm rather busy with other things at the moment but I'll see if I can help with illustrations later. When I was in Canada in the late 1960s, I worked closely together with a mature Japanese woman, who actually accompanied me on my first trip to Japan and told me in detail about all the problems she had faced, particularly during WW II when all the Japanese were sent to concentration camps. So I'm familiar with some of the history of all this. It is to Mink's credit that she did so much in support of the ethnic Japanese despite the feelings of many Americans in Hawaii during and after the war.--Ipigott (talk) 14:49, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * There's a photo under Related media on the House of Representatives site which is probably PD. I'm not sure how to check.--Ipigott (talk) 15:35, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can find about the image. The biggest problem I am having is that we cannot just assume that these were taken by government employees. I have written up a review of photos on the talk page and asked Carl Lindberg to take a look. He's an expert on mid-20th century images (and I think is in the DC area), so probably knows way more about it than me. SusunW (talk) 15:45, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
 * OK. So I'll leave it to him. The article is already looking better.--Ipigott (talk) 15:48, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I just hope he's around and available. We'll see. I love the "baby" pictures I found for her. Hoping the graphics lab is able to fix the 1948 oratorical championship one. SusunW (talk) 19:13, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Creating Page: Michele Adair
Hi, I was looking to make Michele Adair's page. Have came across a little misunderstanding. Primarily there are two very important sources of information about Michele Adair. Here are the links (Link 1) and (Link 2). Now the problem is that I am confused if these two are the same people or not. My research says that they are but I want a second opinion. If you could give this a look and confirm to me that these are the same people that would be great. I am actually looking to make the most of this time in quarantine and contribute as much as I can. I have multiple project drafts in the pipeline and will try to run them by you soon. In the mean time can you please look into this issue. Thanks. ElricFullMetal (talk) 14:16, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks to me as if there are two different people. Perhaps can help out?--Ipigott (talk) 16:06, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * My feeling is that they're likely the same person (unusual name, not that far apart geographically, similar professional background) but I can't prove it, in large part because the local-politician Adair was extremely vague about what she was actually doing professionally, which prevents me from definitively connecting them through jobs held (I ran a subscription news search for her).


 * I think the bigger problem, alas, is that even if we assume they're the same person and we could prove it, she probably doesn't meet our notability standards. The womenaustralia stuff seems largely ripped from an old personal website at the time she was active 15 years ago (it cites her website as main source, uses vague language like you'd expect from a campaign website, and doesn't mention that she ran again for state parliament four years later). Neither bid for office was very successful (3% each time) and she seems to have been a repeat failed local council candidate as well so "Michele Adair is a local and political activist who has achieved much success in her local area" seems like it's over-egging it a bit. There's quite a bit of media hits for her roles at Cystic Fibrosis NSW and The Housing Trust, but they're basically all her being a spokesperson about relevant issues and don't contain much about her. I'd also caution two things, from long experience in the area: 1) unsuccessful parliamentary candidates are generally held to be non-notable unless there's a strong basis for notability elsewhere, and b) the Australian Women's Register contains very many articles on non-notable women and probably isn't a good place to start from re: article generation unless there is an obvious claim to notability there. Sorry to not have better news! The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 20:11, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Turns out it was a good idea after all that I didn't start with the draft then, lol. Thanks for all the help. You, sir, are a lifesaver! Btw, should we then remove the red link altogether then? Thanks again for all the help guys. I will try to stay in touch for all further projects, if you don't mind?ElricFullMetal (talk) 22:55, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * - also just noticed that an article on her was unanimously deleted at Articles for Deletion a year ago on basically the same basis I said above, which is probably why there's a red link lying around. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 00:55, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Ohhh. I see now. Thanks for letting me know. I cannot thank you enough for all the support and help. Much obligedElricFullMetal (talk) 14:18, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Akane Yamaguchi
Hello. Help copy edit and improve. Thanks you. Vomli (talk) 07:41, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi there, . I have no idea why you have been asking so many different editors to copy-edit this article. As far as I can see, it does not require copy-editing. I realize you are new to Wikipedia but you should not be sending the same message to so many different editors.--Ipigott (talk) 15:31, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * (Just came to see if you were participating in the GA review contest.) This is a new kind of spam / troll scenario where one user sends the same message to multiple users asking for help (I have been hit-up by someone, too.)–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:36, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Need help
Hey, I have had one of my pages moved to the draft space for lack of references. Can you please look into this ? This is the page. ElricFullMetal (talk) 20:31, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * With your additional references, it now looks OK.--Ipigott (talk) 08:52, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for your help. Truly appreciate it. BTW, I am looking for ideas to make a Good Article contribution. The one link I found is Project Medishare which is not currently on Wikipedia but I believe can be a very valuable addition. Would it be okay if I ask you to review it once I publish it. I need to make a great contribution whilst I keep on doing the small stuff too. Just for a little self-esteem lol. It hurts when articles get rated start or stub lol :p ElricFullMetal (talk) 20:25, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It's good to hear you are aiming to reach GA but to do so, you need first to bring an article up to B standard, no doubt with the assistance of other editors. Project Medishare perhaps deserves an article but I think it would be very difficult to bring it up to GA standard. If you are interested in improving articles up to GA in collaboration with other editors, you might be interested in joining Women in Green.--Ipigott (talk) 09:57, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, I understand that B is the highest rating a new article can get. I have currently started working on Project Medishare and will keep you posted (like I do about almost all my contributions :P...sorry for that). Can you please guide me through how I can collaborate to take an article to GA? I have read through the information, but I am not really sure how collaboration works here? Thanks ElricFullMetal (talk) 15:50, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

And well there's a Women in Green project too. Pretty amazing I must say. I am definitely checking this one out too. ElricFullMetal (talk) 15:51, 5 April 2020 (UTC)


 * If you look at Women in Green, you will see there's a list of recent GA successes. You can choose any one of these to trace the history of development (click on View history). From the article's talk page, you can access the GA review. See, for example, Jessye Norman: Revision history and Talk:Jessye Norman/GA1. You will see that articles first need to reach a pretty high standard before they are suitable for GA review. Before you try to take one of your own articles to GA, it might be a good idea to participate in the improvement of one of the articles under discussion on the WIG talk page - or indeed any other existing article which you think you can substantially improve. You should pick one that corresponds with your own field of interest. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 16:25, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Perfect. I have looked into it and trying to understand how things actually work. You sir, are my guardian angel (Money Heist reference there) ElricFullMetal (talk) 00:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

 * Thank you very much. That's very kind of you. But I must say you've been making a tremendous contribution yourself with about 50 informative biographies of women since last October.--Ipigott (talk) 06:04, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

This goddess is amazing with languages too, I wish I had her language skills!† Encyclopædius  21:12, 9 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks,, but for clarification, I am in fact male. The award is described as follows: "The Goddess Barnstar Award is given to those individuals who have helped reduce systemic bias by increasing the number or visibility of Wikipedia articles about women." -- irrespective of gender.--Ipigott (talk) 05:56, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Winifred Hoernlé
Man was this one hard to write. I finally just opted to put a whole section in on her views on Apartheid, as I wasn't sure how else to weave that into the narrative. If you have the time and inclination, it could use a copyedit and "Britishisation". If you cannot, no worries. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 23:01, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree it was not so easy to present her views but you have managed to bring everything across without confusion.--Ipigott (talk) 09:48, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your help . I have added photos now, was too tired to do other than the lede one yesterday. As always, your improvements are really appreciated. SusunW (talk) 15:27, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * One other thing I meant to ask you about. I got busted from a reviewer on the use of matriculated. I am wondering if it has another meaning in Britain? SusunW (talk) 15:29, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * This is the correct term in the context of this article. From here you can see that in South Africa (in particular) it means: "Pass the final school-leaving examination." In British English, we do not "graduate" at school.--Ipigott (talk) 15:48, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ian. That is what I always thought as well, but I bowed to the reviewer and intended to ask you. Then I forgot until I saw it again in this one. SusunW (talk) 15:53, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Blocked
FYI: ElricFullMetal is blocked on suspicion of being an undeclared paid editor, creating multiple articles (2-3 per week) for a paid article company. Most of the created articles have been reverted to drafts and tagged as suspected paid. David notMD (talk) 22:47, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know. I've been following the discussions on this and after your posts on his talk page, I looked more carefully at the articles he has been creating. I agree that it is strange that he created lengthy articles on people and companies with little evidence of previous experience in editing but he is certainly not the only new contributor to come to grips with the editing process so quickly. From the discussions with him on my own talk page, I now realize that it was suspicious that he wanted to create an article on "Michele Adair" when an earlier article had been deleted. As for your apparent suspicions in connection with my work on assessment of his articles and re-rating, I should explain that ElricFullMetal joined the wikiproject Women in Red around 25 March. As for all those who join the project, I welcomed him, offered to help him out when necessary and checked his previous work. This involved making adjustments on categorization, sorting, etc., moving well developed drafts into mainspace, and adding wikiproject tags and assessments to article talk pages. I do this for all new members of Women in Red, especially for new contributors, and I frequently also re-assess under-rated articles when I come across them, especially biographies of women. If you think I have been "extremely active converting the classifications of scores of articles from Start to B-class", then you will see that with the assistance of ORES, I have been doing this for a wide variety of editors, especially those writing biographies of women. (If you believe any of these are unjustified, please let me know.) As for my exchanges with ElricFullMetal, I took him simply to be a new editor needing assistance. The development of his first article Mervin D. Garretson seemed genuine enough. I see that at the time, on the basis of your edits, it looks as if you thought the same. I hope this helps to sort things out.--Ipigott (talk) 06:46, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to see that is no longer blocked, despite remaining suspicions. In view of the discussion about me on your talk page under "EricFullMetal" (sic), it might be useful for you to read my explanations to David notMD (above).--Ipigott (talk) 09:03, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * My mention of your involvement was entirely based on suspicion that there was a connection between Elric's article creation and your classification upgrades. I did not look at the articles to see if in my opinion the upgrades were warranted. I apologize for not being diligent before making the observation. David notMD (talk) 12:30, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Apparently I am mistaken. EFM is still blocked.--Ipigott (talk) 15:53, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

women in red additions
Hi Ipigott, thankyou for your encouragement on my page about Alana Mann. Emboldened and enthused I've turned another red one blue :) Hoping you might drop by and have a look. Its Penny O'Donnell. warm regards Doctor 17 (talk) 07:54, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . See your talk page.--Ipigott (talk) 09:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hoping you can help
 * I have just created an article and used the title Professor Sue Clayton about a notable UK film-maker/activist because Sue Clayton is a Redirect page to her name in a List of Coronation Street characters (1985). I need help removing the Redirect and establishing my new article in its place, either with a hatnote to the character or via a DAB page. And I would like to get rid of Professor in the article name. (I had hoped to remove that after I moved the article but it has proved to be harder than I anticipated) Doctor 17 (talk) 06:08, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hallo : I've proposed it as an "uncontroversial move" at Requested_moves, having created a redirect Sue Clayton (Coronation Street) and added a hatnote to the Professor Sue Clayton article. We'll see if that works.
 * Couple of little points: punctuation goes before refs, not after; infobox goes at the top; please use headings in the right sequence, ie basic headings use "==" not "===". I've fixed those things. There's a lot to learn about editing Wikipedia but it's an interesting journey! Happy Editing. Pam  D  07:54, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, nothing is ever straightforward: had a look at Special:WhatLinksHere/Sue_Clayton and found there were 10 incoming links from article space - 5 intended for each of them! So I've updated the Corrie ones to use the new redirect, leaving the others to point to the Prof once her article is renamed. Pam  D  07:56, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * And have now moved her to Sue Clayton (film director) and made a dab page at Sue Clayton, but still believe she should be moved to that basic title. Linking the film articles to dab page is better than linking them to Corrie list, at least! Pam  D  08:05, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * many thanks Pam  D  Doctor 17 (talk) 08:09, 25 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for taking care of all this. It's good to see I have some backup on my talk page. I missed Doctor 17's first request as it must have clashed with other edits on this page. Anyway, everything seems to have been sorted out now and  is obviously making good progress.--Ipigott (talk) 08:57, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Scholars & Scientists
Hi Ipigott,

Just saw your note here and thought I'd leave a message with a little bit of information in case you haven't yet come across Wiki Ed's other program. In the Student Program, we support instructors and students working on higher education class assignments; the Scholars & Scientists program, on the other hand, is a professional development course for academics, professionals, and other subject-matter experts. We meet for 8-12 weeks with weekly meetings and more hands-on staff support throughout the process. The one De Pisan is participating in now is actually themed on Women in Red ( was kind enough to give an inspiring presentation just yesterday). In these courses, we mention WiR any time people are interested in writing about women, since it's just such a great community/resource, but given the theme of this course in particular, I wouldn't be surprised if you saw several more coming your way. Just FYI. :) --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:18, 15 April 2020 (UTC)fur


 * As you've already seen from Rosie's talk page, there were indeed several more. I can't remember any other event which led to so many new members of Women in Red within such a short period of time. Thanks very much for supporting our project and for hosting Rosie's presentation. I hope very much many more of those participating in the Scholars & Scientists program will encourage their students to help create more articles about women and their works. Some of them may even consider creating articles themselves. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help out in future. I'm always happy to assist new contributors with their articles, especially those who join Women in Red. I will in any case continue to monitor those who register as members of Women in Red.--Ipigott (talk) 20:56, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you!
Thanks for welcoming me to Women in Red! Especially pointing me towards the redlists. I just posted my first article and I found another good candidate from the list for women in technology. Looking forward to writing more. (And apologies for the delayed response, I'm still learning the magic of talk pages.) :) Thanks for the offer of more assistance, I will definitely reach out if get lost. MonsterTangerine (talk) 00:43, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I see you've made a good start with Stephenie Landry. I hope there will be many more.--Ipigott (talk) 09:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Kateryna Skarzhynska
— Maile (talk) 00:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Precious anniversary
... and consistently so! ... what you do for the women articles is just amazing! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks, . I am really impressed by the constant attention you give to other editors in addition to all the time you spend on creating highly informative articles of your own. You must be one of the best organized editors on the EN wiki -- a precious example of German order and efficiency.--Ipigott (talk) 05:59, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I laughed so much - order and I are in a constant war ;) - Efficiency, I try. I had this template programmed (by RexxS) to survive me, - it would only take organisation of the dates, and it could run without me. Today, I remember the birthday of one of my great conductors, and yesterday we had a DYK about energizing outdoor music played by Le Concert Spirituel, listen to the very music mentioned in the DYK. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:51, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Do you remember talking about Inge Borkh for GA? I'll look tomorrow, just added her to WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Recent deaths? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:07, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ... today look at Credo, or this is the day from Psalm 118. - I'll turn to the soprano after basic improvements to two who recently died. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Inge Borkh is progressing very well. Do you still intend to go for GA?--Ipigott (talk) 09:39, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do, but - see my talk - some things seem more urgent, the list of Monteverdi's operas for his bday 15 May, Recent deaths (one yesterday, requiring almost a new article, one today, which was easier because many helped), and older requests by Ceoil, Susun and others. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:53, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Britta Marakatt-Labba
Intervju med Britta Marakatt-Labba. We could probably use some of this in her biography :) -Yupik (talk) 18:30, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . You are of course welcome to include anything you think is important but on the EN wiki personal remarks in interviews are considered to be primary sources and therefore not very appropriate for biographies unless they can be backed by secondary sources.--Ipigott (talk) 05:52, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Hattie King Reavis
We managed to save her at AfD and I have given it a complete rewrite. If you have time and interest, she could probably use a copy edit, but I think we are now pretty safe from a future assertion that she was not notable. SusunW (talk) 16:27, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * With all that detail, it just shows how attentive the AfD reviewer had been!--Ipigott (talk) 06:31, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much and yes, I know. Clearly the nominator did not really understand how to find sources for historically marginalized people. I guess the good thing about the nomination is that it brought us to find it. A bit short for GA, but her notability is undeniable. (I wish there were more information on her early life, but I honestly could find nothing more). Hope you are safe. We are still sheltering in place in Mexico, all is well. SusunW (talk) 13:36, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Milagros Benet de Mewton
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

50,000 Destubbing Challenge Focus of the Week
Hello there. This is an invitation to join the 50,000 Destubbing Challenge Focus of the Week. £250 (c. $310) up for grabs in May, June and July with £20 worth of prizes to give away every week for most articles destubbed. Each week there is a different region of focus, though half the prize will still be rewarded for articles on any subject. Sign up if you want to contribute at least one of the weeks or support the idea! † Encyclopædius  19:11, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

There's a week for Europe, so hopefully we'll see some improvements for Denmark during it. Do you still have an interest in Danish towns and buildings these days?† Encyclopædius  16:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)


 * So the Himmalayan explorer has once again changed his name! I've just realized now who you are -- very confusing. I certainly still have an interest in all things Danish but after my recent destubbing efforts were so sharply criticized, I don't think I'll be taking part officially. I'm not interested in the prizes and my time is probably better spent on providing additional support on women and their works. If ever I find the time, I would nevertheless still like to contribute to bringing more articles on the larger Danish cities up to GA. If you are interested, we could perhaps work together on one or two more. I certainly welcome your efforts on destubbing and wish you every success. Without becoming a listed participant, with the help of ORES I'll try to improve the statistics by re-assessing some of the stubs on Danish towns, geographical features and churches. As you probably know, many of them should have been Start or better for quite some time.--Ipigott (talk) 06:15, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Dorothy McNeil
Thank you!!! What a mess. Alas, I couldn't find dates for birth nor marriage. There was no real info, either, on the two children. One obviously before marrying Charles McNeil, the other ?? But the most recent honor and the general time frame make me think it's possible she's still alive.
 * And I'm pleased to say that I've figured out how to move drafts to mainspace, thanks to the advice from all three of you. --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 02:25, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Then we'll assume she is still living. Perhaps you could let me know when you feel your next draft is ready for mainspace. I might be able to offer some advice. Keep up the good work!--Ipigott (talk) 06:02, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Olga Sapphire
Now that I have had a Russian speaker and Japanese speaker review her to make sure there weren't any misinterpretations of the data, would you be able to give her a copy edit? Thanks! SusunW (talk) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * You certainly have some good contacts. Strange coincidence that Eliane also had the surname Pavlova.--Ipigott (talk) 14:13, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Indeed, weird...and...the first woman to ever dance a ballet in Japan was Anna Pavlova. You know, I have to rely on those of you who do have good language skills. I can put it together, but always want someone more familiar to check to make sure and help me find links to things I can never seem to find on our search engines. Thank you so much! SusunW (talk) 14:23, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Ingrid Dahle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Ingrid_Dahle

I submitted this page but it has not passed ,I like comedy and think this comedian is noteable with relevant links. Can you push this in the right direction to achieve final edits? Also this is my first talk page entry, so I hope I have not ruined your page Comedyfanau (talk) 01:18, 30 April 2020 (UTC)ComedyFanAU


 * This is something of a borderline case. I sympathize with for considering it was not yet ready for article space as most of your references are to "primary" sources closely associated with the subject or simply to announcements of her future appearances. I did nevertheless find three valid secondary sources (refs 11, 16 and 28) in the form of reviews which actually provided some substance. In future, in order to avoid such problems, you should choose people who are more strongly supported in secondary sources in line with the Ten Simple Rules from Women in Red. For further assistance, you should perhaps become a member of wp:Women in Red. (Join at the top of the page.)--Ipigott (talk) 07:43, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

new draft for you to see
Kia ora! I've got a new draft in my sandbox ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tarkiwi25/sandbox ) and you suggested that I show you my next one before moving it. I could add a little bit more, possibly, but the available online sources I haven't yet cited are beginning to say much the same things. I'm ready to let this go. Any advice appreciated. Cheers --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 00:16, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This is coming along pretty well. As far as I can see, the only major problem is that you have included too many direct quotes. While one or two meaningful quotes are generally acceptable (providing they are clearly assigned), in order to avoid copyright violations it is generally better to rephrase other details in your own words. I suggest you edit the article along these lines. You can then have a go at moving it to mainspace yourself, adding categories, defaultsort and authority control. If you encounter any difficulties, please let me know.--Ipigott (talk) 10:41, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Academic training on the direct quotation front; intensive inline citation after getting caught between working on preexisting pages without any, and trolling editors unhappy with such. I take your point about copyright, so will try to find the happy balance.
 * Moving to mainspace is no longer a problem. I understand from previous experience that adding categories has to wait until then, but that's all I know about the process. At this point, I'll try copying from an existing example, or perhaps the WP cheatsheet page (I found it yesterday). I'll have to look up defaultsort and authority control; no idea what they are, but happy to try to learn on my own.
 * What I'm not making progress on is how to establish a red lined name when someone by the same name already has a page. The name in question is Robin Laing. Perhaps the Kiwi Wikipedians have redlined this significant film producer, but I didn't see her name on their radar when last I checked. --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 22:00, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Woohoo. Defaultsort sorted. Categories a bit rougher. Apparently one needs to know if categories exist before trying to attach them. How does one create a new category? (This has come up while previously working on other pages.) Onward to research authority control. --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 22:34, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * You've done a really good job on Brent Leggs. I've added a few categories. The most important ones are "Living people" and "xxxx births" where xxxx is the year of birth. As you have not established the exact year, I've just used the decade. Particularly for academics, the universities are important too. You can add new categories in the search box by writing "Category:Name of new category" but you should be careful as you need to adhere to existing hierarchies. Let me know what you want to add and I'll try to help. As for authority control, it's good to add it to all biographies as sooner or later it will turn up authority links to national libraries, etc. Look at a few other biographies to see how this works.--Ipigott (talk) 07:03, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. Apologies for not getting a citation for the second book I mentioned. I had it at one point, from the Library of Congress, which is how I had the title itself, but the actual page disappeared before I could complete the citation form and wouldn't reload. (And then I guess I got careless/lazy about finding another source. Apologies.) I generally load a whole bunch of pages at first to make sure there's enough to justify significance. This time, there was so much repetition with maybe one new tidbit per open tabs with similar names that I was getting confused about where I'd found what.
 * Good points about categories. I'll work on learning how the basics are referred to (syntax/labels are soooo important). I tried what I thought was a reasonable guess at linking with U of Kentucky, but when it didn't work, guessing felt like looking for proverbial needles. Same with African American as a starting point. I couldn't find a birth date and no names for parents. People are sensitive about putting their age on their professional profiles. I haven't had much reason so far to learn how to access birth records, and that's not really where I had planned to go in Wikipedia work.
 * I'm currently reading up on disambiguation, which has been a long-time blockage, along with red-lining someone whose name involves creating a disambiguation page. You've clarified what authority control is about; I'll try to work out how to apply it.
 * Meanwhile, your help over the last few pages I've worked on setting up has been truly useful and much appreciated. Interfering editors who were obstructive rather than helpful had caused frustration and a blockage. Your help has led to real progress. Thanks again! --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 22:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

opting in to receive mass mailings
Hi. I just made this edit to add myself to the list to receive updates on items at WP:WIR. I got to that page by clicking the link to opt in for mass mailings. however, when I viewed the page history, it seems that you are the one who adds user names to that list. was it okay for me to add myself? If not, would it be possible for you to please add me to that list? I greatly appreciate your help. thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 15:36, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's fine. Everyone is welcome to add their name and receive our announcements. If you wish, you can become a member of WiR by click on Join WikiProject on the main project page.--Ipigott (talk) 16:00, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * that's terrific!!! I appreciate your help. I will think about membership as well. thanks! --Sm8900 (talk) 16:16, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Tilly Bébé
If you have the inclination, she could use a copy-edit. There are also sources I cannot read that I put on the talk page, after asking Gerda for help. Ancient German is impossible for me and I think one is in Estonian, but am unsure. Thanks so much. SusunW (talk) 19:26, 8 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Not too happy about the "sloth" of polar bears. As for the sources on the talk page, Refs 1 and 3 both refer to an incident in Munich's Nymphenburger Volksgarten where Bébé was "attacked" by a lion which laid its paws on her and was about to bite her throat. She hit it on the snout and moved away, dripping with blood. After the act was repeated a few days later, she explained to the audience: "I couldn't let him see I was frightened of him." The second is about the removal of a lion's tooth by a dentist. I can't read the others.--Ipigott (talk) 07:10, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help. I wasn't sure what to call them. Perhaps just group? It also drove me mad that I couldn't discover the Countess's actual name, but after 1/2 a day of searching, I finally resolved that I wasn't going to uncover it. It's probably buried in a French archive somewhere. SusunW (talk) 14:07, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I probably did not explain the mauling very well. As far as I can see, it was all intentional, including the blood, as she repeated everything a few days later. I've rephrased the passage.--Ipigott (talk) 14:40, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! This one was harder than most. Sources in so many languages were required to tell the full story. The Dutch piece was really helpful, as it clarified that semi-orphaned meant her mother died and gave information about her father. The French piece is the only one that relayed the identity of the Countess. The various German pieces give the information on her films and later life. I really appreciate the help. SusunW (talk) 14:51, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

I would like to cash in
Ipigott, hello again! I was wondering if you might be able to spare a few moments, look at Bishnu Majhi? I would like to see if it qualifies for DYK, but before that, I would be much more comfortable knowing I didn't get it horribly wrong. I hate having to write about people's personal lives, but this one had almost all the coverage focused on just that. So, DUE and all, seemed kinda important. TIA! Usedtobecool ☎️ 18:20, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry not to have replied earlier. The article is well developed and certainly suitable for DYK--Ipigott (talk) 06:04, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I figured you were waiting till after you'd had a chance to look. Thank you very much! It's a comfort to have an experienced 2O on BLP and WAW. Usedtobecool ☎️ 08:09, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People from Bogense Municipality


A tag has been placed on Category:People from Bogense Municipality requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz Read! Talk! 22:48, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Elise Mercur
I've been trying to work through a list of articles that the ref=harv change caused problems for. This one was a total mess. All sorts of information that had nothing to do with her had been added, bunches of information that had no citations and what citations were there didn't support the statements. Took me 3 days to read everything and totally re-write it. I am hoping if it goes to GA that kind of stuff will stop. I was also able to find quite a few photographs, so am happy about that. If you have the time or inclination, could you give it a copyedit? Thanks. SusunW (talk) 22:26, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw all the trouble you were having with bots interfering with your referencing. I would have thought it should be quite easy to prevent them from upsetting carefully prepared Harvard sourcing with page numbers, etc. As for Mercur, there was hardly anything to do. My desk is exactly like the one in the illustration. Great pity virtually everything has been demolished but I suppose that's a symptom of American prosperity.--Ipigott (talk) 10:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I still need to sort out her birthdate, but that's today's project. Hopefully I now know what that change did and how to fix it. Problem is I cannot see the errors, but if Headbomb gives me a list, I know what to look for now. And yes, I thought it horribly sad that all of her buildings may be gone. I did find several new ones while searching for refs, so it is of course possible that they aren't all demolished. I'm really curious about the photo I put on the talk page too. McCullough/McCulloch are pretty similar and the location seems to be as well. Perhaps someone from the area can sort it out. SusunW (talk) 13:11, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, well, that is finally done. She apparently started lying about her age when she married a guy 8 years younger. In the last census before her death, she managed to be younger than him. LOL SusunW (talk) 17:42, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Just as well you've sorted it all out.--Ipigott (talk) 18:15, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome to Women in Red
Thanks for the welcome. Please take a look at my comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Aviators and see if you can resolve the problem. Thanks again.Roundtheworld (talk) 14:54, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Replied here.--Ipigott (talk) 15:32, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Nina Demme
I've done what I can do with her until GRuban can proof the Russian and help me work out the photos. They are all in that winky period of not-renewed or never copyrighted, so I want more eyes on them and the ones on WP.ru are all done as fair use. I think we have some we can put on commons. If you want to do a copyedit, I think she's ready and I'd really appreciate it. SusunW (talk) 17:47, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. Looking forward to illustrations. Perhaps maps would help.--Ipigott (talk) 10:55, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. Maps I can look for on commons and will do that this morning. I am really hopeful that at least some of the photos from the talk page are usable. SusunW (talk) 13:03, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If the images are from the 1930s, they must be out of copyright.--Ipigott (talk) 13:06, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Depends. The newspapers themselves filed copyright, so I need to verify that they weren't renewed. Though they were sent out by wire (which is actually confirmed in several of them) I don't know how that is treated. Is wiring them in effect "published abroad" and within 30 days in the US? I was just preparing to search copyright.gov to see if any renewals were done on any of them. SusunW (talk) 13:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Sándor Vay
If you have the time or inclination to give this one a copyedit, I'd appreciate it. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 23:17, 2 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Working on this but rather confused, especially the para beginning "In the manner typical for the gentry at that time". Should the section not begin "Salolta"? Was it her brother Peter who was brought up as a girl? Was it Peter or Sarolta who was taught privately? Perhaps you could clarify these points yourself before I upset everything. I've also edited the rest of it but you might like to double-check the pronouns. I don't think italics should be used for the English translations of works unless they actually appeared in English but am not sure whether Wikipedia has developed its own rules about this.--Ipigott (talk) 10:45, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a very confusing situation. Sandor/Sarolta was raised as a boy and Peter was raised as a girl. It was Sandor who received a private education. Then when that education moved to institutions, Sandor was enrolled as Sarolta. I've tried to make it clearer. This was the only period in Sandor's life where he used Sarolta - from enrolling in school to publishing his first work. After that he was always Sandor. SusunW (talk) 13:04, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * As for the italicized thingy, I don't know. I always italicized only the published name. Then several GA reviewers told me to italicize both the published name and the translated one. Then there are those who want you to list the English name first, even if it was never published in English. It's confusing to me. SusunW (talk) 13:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I see that in the recently FA'd Isabelle Eberhardt, the unpublished English translation is not in italics.--Ipigott (talk) 14:02, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I'll try to remember next time someone hits me up on that. SusunW (talk) 14:08, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * That's very kind of you, . As I see you are active on the French version of Wikipedia and have been developing Elizabeth Cellier and Frances_Dana_Barker_Gage, you are probably referring to Liste des féministes which might have been inspired by our Women in Red Wikidata-based redlists but was in fact created by . Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. Bonne continuation en français et à un de ces jours sur la version de Wikipédia en anglais.--Ipigott (talk) 10:13, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

The Teamwork Barnstar 2020

 * Thanks for the recognition, . I actually also include a few words of welcome on their talk page, based as far as possible on their progress to date and offering assistance if they need it.--Ipigott (talk) 15:02, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, very nice! What I had noticed are the adds to the Opt-In lists as I have them watchlisted. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:22, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Nesta Obermer
If you have the inclination, it could use a copyedit. No worries if you are too busy. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 06:03, 10 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I think I've done what I can with this. Maybe you can include File:Gluck_-_Medallion.jpg as fair use.--Ipigott (talk) 09:57, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. You know I am bad at "Britishising" the language ;). I really wanted to use it but was unsure if it could be fair use twice. I'll do some checking and see what I can discover. SusunW (talk) 14:48, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * As for Britishing, until very recently I would never have called the First World War "World War I" or the Second World War "World War II" as these seem to be typical Americanisms. Nevertheless, you will see that British and European generals such a John Charteris and George Cockerill now have biographies commenting on their service in World War I while most of the others such as Douglas Haig, Edmund Henry Hynman Allenby, Edwin Alderson, Maurice Sarrail, Frederick Stanley Maude and Charles W. H. Douglas were active in the First World War. But I see there is a major article titled Military history of the United Kingdom during World War II. So I suppose you can take your pick.--Ipigott (talk) 15:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I always think of them as the First and Second World War too and have to modify my text for WP. Maybe it's a generational thing? For the record, confirmed I can use Medallion, so I have added it to the article. SusunW (talk) 16:24, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Leda Valladares
I only hope I did her justice. What an amazing figure and preserver of cultural legacy. If you are so inclined, it could use a copyedit. If you are busy, no worries. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 23:48, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It must be "Mapa musical argentino". As for the border regions, are we talking about borders between different indigenous groups or borders with other countries? Perhaps the lead photo could be improved.--Ipigott (talk) 11:56, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. Orquera calls it a border town, and describes it like any other border town as a mixing pot of cultures. Thus, I assumed that it is bordering other countries, but it could simply mean regions. The latter seems to be the correct interpretation, looking at the location map of Tucumán. I thought I would look for photos today. Argentina's copyright period on photographs is only 25 years, so perhaps I can find something. I don't like the one on the es.wp lede, she looks like a hunchback. Nor did I find anything in particular that I liked on commons. Sources use both "Mapa musical argentino" and "Mapa musical de la argentina", so I used what was actually on the album cover, which has the "de la". SusunW (talk) 13:43, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The problem was that you had "Mapa musical de la argentino". If you prefer "Mapa musical de la Argentina", that's fine too.--Ipigott (talk) 13:48, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah ha! Gracias. SusunW (talk) 14:25, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Eugenia Rasponi
Why are Italian women still so buried? This was so hard to do. If you could look at two sources, I'd appreciate it. This one is in French and I have no clues. This one talks about her getting Jiddu Krishnamurti to do seminars, I'm guessing. You would think that someone from so prominent a family would have more available. But, sigh, I couldn't even find a proper death date or place of death. Any help you can give would be appreciated. SusunW (talk) 21:42, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this. I'll look at it tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 16:01, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No urgency, I just get frustrated when I cannot properly write a life that should be written. Any help you can give will be appreciated. (P. S. I've also asked Camelia if she can help with any other sources or a death date. Seems to me that if they know her cousin inherited, they know when she died, but ...) SusunW (talk) 16:05, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The French article is devoted to detailed descriptions of the Ravenna treasures which Rasponi had safeguarded. The Italian piece tells how in 1937 Krishnamurti spent an extended period in Rome staying in Lady Berkeley's residence. From 26 February to 15 March, he held a series of private meetings with intellectuals on spiritual matters in the residence belonging to Countess Rasponi. All went well until there was an incident in which the police disturbed a meeting as Krishnamurti was suspected preparing political initiatives. One of Krishnamurti's sympathizers asserted in a letter that Potetti and Rasponi fully supported the government and that Krishnamurti was not interested in politics. The matter was then dropped.
 * It seems, by the way, that despite its name, the Rocca Malatestiana is in fact located in Cesena.
 * Can't find any records of her death.--Ipigott (talk) 10:29, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yay! Thank you, does the French article say what treasures or safeguarded from whom? On the castle/fortress, I thought initially they were the same but if you look at the photographs, there is an architectural detail (I don't know what you call it), sort of like a parapet, but lower down on the wall, that goes around the top of the Rocca Malatestiana in Cesena that is not found on the Rocca Malatestiana Santarcangelo. Plus the one in Cesena has two towers joined by a single hall and the grass comes directly up to its base. The one in Santarcangelo (near Rimini) has four towers (three octagonal and one large square) joining four wings and is surrounded by paved ground. I added Rocca Malatestiana Santarcangelo to the list of castles/fortresses of Italy and hopefully someone will write an article about it. SusunW (talk) 13:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You may be right that there are two castles. Perhaps the one you are referring to is Castello Malatestiano di Santarcangelo. There are lots of intricate details about the treasures. I thought you had already included the main points in the article but tomorrow I'll see if there's anything else of importance.--Ipigott (talk) 14:50, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It is very confusing, as the same name is used for the one in Cesena and the one in Santarcangelo in numerous articles, but looking at them, they are different and in articles about them, one is a museum and the other is a private residence/hotel. I am unsure what to call the one that Rasponi owned. I see Castello di Santarcangelo di Romagna, Castello Malatestiano di Santarcangelo, Rocca Malatestiana Santarcangelo, Castello di Santarcangelo - Rocca Malatestiana. I'm happy to call it whatever you think is best, as I honestly have no clue. SusunW (talk) 15:13, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * As I'm not at all sure what you want to use from this article, here's a rough translation of what appear to me to be the more important descriptions:


 * The article is based on the re-opening after 30 years of the rooms in the Rasponi residence with artefacts from the imperial (Napoleonic) period safeguarded by the great granddaughter of Caroline and Joachim Murat. An ardent defender of the rights of the individual, she lives with a small number of friends chosen for their intellectual qualities, either in her Ravenna residence or in the Sant'Arcangelo hermitage — a old medieval castle with bastions and parapets which, according to local legend, was the site of the Paolo and Francesca drama as well as one of the nests of the eagle of Sigismond-Pandolphe Malatesta.


 * In the well preserved rooms, there are fine works of art, museum pieces and documents of interest to historians. There is a fine copy of Gérand's sumptuous portrait of Murat, another by the same painter of a smiling young Caroline with two of her children, certainly one of the artist's finest pieces. There are also sketches of Florence, Naples, Frohsdorf and the deserted beach of Viareggio as it was between 1830 and 1840, and a view of the interior of the house beside the sea with its decor and its hosts going about their customary duties; the Florence apartment which is now the Hotel d'Italie; a depiction of the tomb of Sainte-Hélène, a host of moving souvenirs and happily sketched portraits.


 * But a large proportion of the Napolionic inheritance is no longer in Ravenna but in Rome as Countess Rasponi chose to gift it to her cousin Count Gien Battista Spelletti.


 * Count Spalletti, a descendent of Marquis Achille Fontanelli who was a minister under the viceroy, takes a special interest in everything connected with the First Empire. His collection includes the rich jewels of Queen Caroline: pearls and cameos, coral, turquoises and cameos. Then, set in a medal, there is a thin strand of Napoleon's hair, left to his sister Pauline... a bracelet made with Caroline's golden-green hair... rings, miniatures of the Emperor's father, Charles Bonaparte, of his mother, of Jérôme, of the Queen of Westphalia, Catherine of Wurtemberg, of the Prince of Canino and of Cardinal Fesch.


 * The collection also includes a snuffbox in gold left by the exiled emperor to his son which eventually was left to Caroline, one of Murat's watches which he wore throughout his campaigns; all his decorations..., including those of the royal couple's children.


 * Then there is the Emperor's spoon which he used until the end of his life...


 * The remainder of the article describes other items in Joseph Primoldi's collection in Rome. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 09:39, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's a lot. Thank you. I'll see what I can incorporate. SusunW (talk) 13:18, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Ljuba Prenner
I know this one will drive you crazy, as I opted to use the pronouns "they" and "them" throughout, as clearly Prenner recognized very early that they were "neither man nor woman". (I admit that I wrote it and then had to change the pronouns, because it is very difficult for me to use they/them as singular). But, it definitely needs a copyedit to make sure that who is being spoken of is clear. I am working on photos and hopefully will have those sorted in a day or so. If you are too busy, or involved in other work, no worries. Thank you so much. SusunW (talk) 20:42, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll do what I can with it but I cannot help with the pronouns.--Ipigott (talk) 06:17, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Obviously an interesting individual deserving an article. After ploughing through the whole article, I can find no justification for using they/their throughout. I find the article far too difficult to read with these pronouns, especially as the only early mention of male tendencies is "As a teenager, they first cut their hair short and began transitioning their appearance to male" but this is immediately followed by reference to a period in a girls school. I seriously suggest you use female pronouns throughout, perhaps adding a footnote explaining why some commentators might prefer more a-sexual treatment. In any case, as far as I can see, she did not begin to appear openly in male attire until the communist era. Why then complicate the earlier life story with inappropriate pronouns? Awaiting your comments on this before I go any further. (And don't forget that she was something of a language expert herself.)--Ipigott (talk) 06:57, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It is so difficult, (but important to recovering our diverse history, I think) to write historical articles on people who lived in times where there was no concept of a sexual or gender spectrum. As you can see here  has similar concerns. Y'all are my language experts, (and I was mindful that Prenner was as well), but I honestly don't know. I have asked in the past on the LGBT project and gotten no guidance. I do have a friend here from the former Yugoslavia (Serbia) who is a generation younger than Prenner and trans F to M. She uses feminine pronouns and says that in her part of the country, surgery/transition was impossible, so she just accepts that she feels male and most people call her female.
 * As for Prenner, there's a lot more information I could write, but did not because it seemed like too much detail. I know that from childhood, they played with boys; their father was accepting of their gender but mother was not; and they dressed as a male long before the communists came. That lede photo is from 1929 and this primary school photo from 1918 in the front row middle appears to show Prenner in male clothes, but this 1930 image shows female dress. The photos suggest that Prenner's appearance was fluid until the communists came in and after that point, they never presented as anything other than male. Perhaps up to "Legal career" it should be she and afterwards he? I really do appreciate both you and George's input, as it is a sensitive situation, but I'd really like to honor their perception of themselves as "neither man nor woman" and don't know how we can best actually do that. SusunW (talk) 14:48, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The English language has been rich enough to communicate a vast array of concerns on sexual attitudes for hundreds of years. The way the article is written at the moment makes it particularly difficult to understand. I sympathize with those of our contemporaries who feel the pronouns he and she are not adequate to describe their sexual contexts but I do not share your view that their preferences for ungrammatical structures should be extended to those who are no longer able to express their views on the matter. As I suggested earlier, I think the article would be far clearer with shes and hers rather than theys and theirs. If you wish to express the views of others on the matter, you could always include an explanatory section in the article itself or use footnotes. I really don't think I could competently copyedit the article the way it is at the moment. The only possible way out would be to use combinations such as "she/they" and "her/their", but it might make the whole think look clumsy. Remember I was born in 1943 and though I am really open-minded, there are limits to what I find acceptable in English usage, especially in a historical context. If you decide to keep the theys and theirs, please let me know if there are any other specific issues you would like me to help with. And now I need to get back to creating July's editathon pages. Bon courage!--Ipigott (talk) 15:36, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Claims like "Camoflaging the sexual orientation of biographical subjects was common through the 20th century in Slovenia,[34] but in the 21st century more openness in society has allowed more balanced presentations of their life, including Prenner's exploration of sex reassignment surgery.[35]" are quite strong, ideally should have more sources. There's also quite a lot of weight on the sexuality in the lead when the bottom only briefly mentions it. Good work though!† Encyclopædius  16:14, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I totally get it Ian. It is difficult for me to wrap my head around "they" as a singular pronoun as well and my concern is that the language will prevent people from understanding the article. Perhaps as you suggest, footnotes are the answer., thanks for weighing in. I can add additional citations and will rework to strive for a better balance. Appreciate you both and rely on your judgment. SusunW (talk) 16:29, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Glad to see you have come round to a more traditional approach on pronouns. I read 's comments but am pretty sure there are no a-sexual pronouns in Slovenia. I know the country quite well, first visiting in the 1960s when it was part of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, the Slovenian language was combined with other regional variations to form Serbo-Croat. To the best of my knowledge, pronouns are still as they used to be. The only "Indo-European" language in which new pronouns have had a significant (yet limited) impact is Swedish.--Ipigott (talk) 16:41, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Taking all of the discussions into consideration, I have reworked the article. I took out much of the discussion of sexuality in the lede and put it as a note. Recognizing Prenner's language expertise, but also respecting the choice to write, practice law, and live their private life as a man, I have done what I suggested above and used the pronoun "she" up to "Legal career" and afterwards have used solely "he" as it focuses on his career and private life. Does that make it where you can copyedit, Ian? Doc, I also added footnote 3 which explains why legally and policy-wise gender was ignored in the previous Soviet bloc. Let me know if you think that is insufficient to support the why. Your question led me to this lovely quote Prenner had "an understanding of himself as a lesbian who used masculine identifiers and existed outside of the binary of male and female", which I think sums up the situation well. I did find it ironic that in the year of Prenner's death same sex relations were decriminalized. I really, really appreciate all of you and your input. It definitely takes a village and I thank each of you very much. Please let me know if there are other concerns for improvement. SusunW (talk) 22:47, 27 June 2020 (UTC)


 * OK, I've been through it all for copy editing. You've uncovered a lot of interesting detail but I still think it would have been more natural to maintain she/her throughout. The sudden change to he/him, without any strong justification, makes for rather surprising reading.
 * I think there's also a slight chronological problem with the para beginning "After a new complaint was made". As 1952 is mentioned in the previous para, it looks as if "that year" is also 1952 but I think you are still referring to 1949. Perhaps this could be clarified.
 * Carinthia is a province which stretches from Austria to Slovenia and is now partitioned by the border. Although Slovenia was indeed part of Austria-Hungary in 1906, I'm pretty sure Prevalje was on the Slovene side. That's why I've substituted the Carinthia (Slovenia) link.
 * Finally, I was wondering if there are any instances in any language in which Prenner was referred to as a male and with male pronouns. If not, your use of them might be considered by some to be original research. Do you know of any other instances in which historical Wikipedia biographies have used pronouns other than those commonly used in the subject's lifetime? Sorry to dwell on this but I think it's important.--Ipigott (talk) 12:58, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much Ian. I truly do value your help and input, as it always makes improvements to the articles and makes me consider things carefully. I've clarified the 1949 date you indicated above. As for OR, it isn't. There are enough sources which confirm that the male identity was used in the courtroom and writing and at least a few which use male pronouns. I think I can rest on Give precedence to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, even when it doesn't match what is most common in reliable sources. from the MOS:GENDERID and In the case of a historical figure, if reliable sources indicate that they lived consistently as a gender other than the one assigned at birth, use the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns that reflect the gender they lived as. from Historical figures. While the last is a discussion, it is on a policy development page. Now to figure out the photos. SusunW (talk) 14:51, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * OK. You've obviously been doing your homework. Let's see how it survives GA, perhaps with assistance from .--Ipigott (talk) 15:04, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks btw for correcting my typos, etc. I was going to go through it all again but you got there first!--Ipigott (talk) 15:09, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It was George who first pointed me to that policy and then your question which helped me search for the second discussion. I am serious when I say it takes a village. There were very few changes to make. I appreciate that you correct me all the time and I really enjoy our collaborations. They definitely improve articles. SusunW (talk) 15:13, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say "correct". There's virtually nothing that's "wrong". Maybe "guide" would be better. But we've reached the stage where's there's very little to work on in copy-editing your work, apart from those recurrent problems which most Americans seem to encounter. Perhaps someday I'll try to put together a guideline sheet for you all (or y'all as you like to say down there in the South!).--Ipigott (talk) 15:24, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but I still rely on your expertise. Nice to see that you recognize y'all, as it is far easier to understand the plural you using our term than the one the rest of the English-speaking world uses. LOL SusunW (talk) 15:48, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * In Quebec, they always say "vous autres" (rather like vosotros) if there's more than one, instead of the Metrolopolitan French "vous". Same sort of thing.--Ipigott (talk) 16:02, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

July 2020 at Women in Red

 * anyway I can get added to this list? I do a lot of work improving recently-created articles about women and would love to stay abreast of the latest. Thanks. Donna Spencer talk-to-me ⛅ 20:50, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi . Glad to see you are becoming a bit more active again and that you want to see what we're doing month by month. I've added your name to our mailing list but you can become a WiR member by clicking on "Join WikiProject" at the top of the main Women in Red page. Let me know if you experience any problems.--Ipigott (talk) 08:33, 30 June 2020 (UTC)