User:Ipigott/Archive 29

Archive 1: Jan 2007-Jan 2010, Archive 2: Jan 2010-Jan 2011, Archive 3: Jan 2011-Jun 2011, Archive 4: Jun 2011-Nov 2011, Archive 5: Dec 2011-Aug 2012, Archive 6: Sep 2012-Dec 2012, Archive 7: Dec 2012-May 2013, Archive 8: Jun 2013-Nov 2013, Archive 9: Nov 2013-Aug 2014, Archive 10: Sep 2014-Feb2015, Archive 11:Mar2015-Aug 2015, Archive 12: Mar 2015-Aug 2015, Archive 13: Sep 2015-May 2016, Archive 14: Jun 2016-Dec 2016, Archive 15: Jan 2017-Aug 2017, Archive 16: Sep 2017-Mar 2018, Archive 17: Apr 2018-Sep 2018, Archive 18: Oct 2018-Aug 2019, Archive 19: Sep 2019-Jan 2020, Archive 20: Feb 2020-Jun 2020, Archive 21: Jul 2020-Sep 2020, Archive 22: Oct 2020-Feb 2021, Archive 23: Mar 2021-Aug 2021, Archive 24: Sep 2021-Dec 2021, Archive 25 Jan 2022-Apr 2022, Archive 26 May 2022-Jul 2022, Archive 27 Aug 2022-Jan 2023, Archive 28 Feb 2023-Jul 2023

Women in Red August 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 19:25, 28 July 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Touching base about my first new article in a long while
Thanks for your help several years ago with my work on expanding coverage of women in Social entrepreneurship.

I'm a bit rusty, and just did a first draft of an article in my personal space User:JRandomF/Somini Sengupta, the award winning female Indian-American journalist. Does this look acceptable? JRandomF (talk) 08:21, 30 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Good to hear from you again,, especially as you have started to work on new biographies. As for your draft of Somini Sengupta, in view of the awards she has won she certainly seems to deserve an article but you should be wary of using primary sources such as the articles she has published in the New York Times and the paper's accounts of her assignments. Instead try to build the biography on reliable independent sources. You could for example draw on critical reviews of her book such as this. It would be better to cite four or five good independent sources rather than lots of primary references. Hope this helps. If you think you can make improvements along these lines, let me take a new look at your draft when you are ready.--Ipigott (talk) 09:37, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the insights, and the generous offer of another review, Ipigott. I'll go digging for more independent sources. --JRandomF (talk) 13:07, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Scrubbed of all primary sources: was able to find a bunch of quality independent sources for just about everything except her new role announced in May, 2023. User:JRandomF/Somini Sengupta It would be great to see if you could check this out again. Thanks for doing a spot of retraining! JRandomF (talk) 10:06, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a great improvement. I've promoted the article to mainspace and provided wikilinks from many of the articles where she is cited. There are far too many more for me to continue.--Ipigott (talk) 12:53, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Judi M. gaiashkibos
If you have time and interest, could you give this article a copyedit? (I have GRuban working on a couple of photos.) Thanks! SusunW (talk) 19:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)


 * A BLP for a change, The article ends rather abruptly. How about creating a separate section on her awards and honors?--Ipigott (talk) 08:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I know, I prefer not to write BLPs, but when I read the article in July about her and the Genoa digs, I decided it was time to write her. Took a while to sort out the names, but fortunately someone had clipped photos of her winning that title and marked them as gaiashkibos. That unlocked her early life and marriage and the women's studies thing was a bonus. Really hard to try to write so as to never use her name to start a sentence. I think I only had to capitalize it twice. SusunW (talk) 13:43, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

August music
Today's music is played by my brother's orchestra, conducted by two very young men on their way up, - the picture was taken shortly after the invasion of Ukraine began, - more detail on my talk. Images reached the day of the Tenebrae concert mentioned in July. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:47, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

My story today - a first - isn't about an article by me, but one I reviewed for DYK, see here. I like all: topic, "hook", connected article (a GA on its way towards FA), image and the music "in the background". I just returned from a weekend of weddings, so also like the spirit ;) - Pics to come, I promise one cake, the other was too large! Good music, and better even in the concert ending the second day, - Goldberg Variations theme for an encore, after Dohnányi Serenade. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Now: picture of heart-shaped cake(s) uploaded! - Today's story is about a tenor, - why his roles are not linked on the Main page remains a mystery to me. Today is also the birthday of the Bayreuth Festival. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

One more day uploaded, with another wedding cake - I couldn't resist. Today's story is about the Inkpot Madonna who returned to "her place" 9 years ago, and also has aspects of early learning, remember? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Today is the anniversary of the premiere of Götterdämmerung. Berit Lindholm sang its final scene in concert at the Royal Festival Hall in London, only four years after her stage debut in a Mozart opera in Stockholm. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I too was really surprised at the mention of "bottom extension" in the DYK.--Ipigott (talk) 06:06, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Please say so. - I feel that the suppression of information - arguing that the masses will not be interested (but in vulgarity) - looks pretty much like censorship, but I would not be heard. I am told that I miss the spirit of DYK. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:12, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Not worth it. They would only justify it by saying it attracted over 6,000 page views.--Ipigott (talk) 06:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean. The DYK is only planned, and I don't want it to happen. I said no DYK is better than that one, and stand by it, but would prefer one that speaks about her. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:44, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm mixing things up a bit. I saw "bottom extension" in the queue here. I also noticed she had over 6,700 page views on 15 August, no doubt because her death was widely reported. She was also mentioned on our "In the news". As the DYK is still in the queue, perhaps you can either have it changed or removed. I just don't know what the procedure is for this. All I can do at this stage is to ping  in the hope that it can still be altered.--Ipigott (talk) 07:18, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * She had those page views because she was under the Recent deaths. I had hoped to attract a few more readers by saying more about her than just the name, - not by saying what a strange kind of wording some reviewer used, which says practically nothing about her. Today, my focus is on Renata Scotto, after days of updating. She is in all the media, a celebrity, a lead figure in the first Live from the Met (bringing opera to everybody since 1977) but some editors running DYK right now will still think that opera is some niche topic that people are not interested in. Her article was too long to go for DYK - relief. One rejection less. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:28, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Another recent death. Thanks for all your improvements.--Ipigott (talk) 15:43, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * now the next woman, also a tough job - pics updated to a happy day --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:31, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Today is Debussy's birthday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Today is Gwendolyn Killebrew's birthday, - pictured: a spider and sweet food - got a GA for a woman today, and bio #500 for WiR is planned --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks mainly to you, but also to others, the biography of Berit Lindholm has certainly come a long way since she died on the 12th. It's a pity we have to wait for detailed obituaries to document articles about such notable performers. You are really becoming something of a professional in this regard. 500 WIR articles will be quite an achievement.--Ipigott (talk) 07:50, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the encouragement to keep going! - This too shall pass. - Ten years ago on 28 August, I heard a symphony, with a heavy heart because of the pending decision in WP:ARBINFOBOX, and not worried about my future here but Andy's. - It passed, and I could write the DYK about calling to dance, not battle, and Andy could write the DYK mentioning about peace and reconciliation, - look. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:19, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Elisabeth Cobb
My latest article for Women in Red. I'd definitely like you to take a look at it. Abzeronow (talk) 19:50, 4 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks like you've made a good start. How about adding defaultsort and categories? Look at similar articles for guidance. You could also present the titles of her works in italics, if possible with ISBN numbers. Let me know if you run into any difficulties.--Ipigott (talk) 07:05, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Abzeronow Nice article, but one question: Does "sophomore novel" mean "second novel" or "novel written while a sophomore student"? If the former, I think that's a US-specific term (as is the latter, but one the rest of us have come across). Perhaps avoid?
 * And even if a source SHOUTS in all caps, we usually convert it to mixed case. I'm sure there's a guideline to cite, somewhere ... ah, found in MOS:ALLCAPS "Reduce newspaper headlines and other titles from all caps to title case – or to sentence case if required by the citation style established in the article." Just a tiny point, there's always something new to learn about editing Wikipedia. Happy Editing! Pam  D  07:11, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I can change sophomore novel to second novel since that is what I meant. I guess I'll try to not do ALL CAPS titles in the future.  I'll also add a few categories per Ipigott's suggestion.  Abzeronow (talk) 16:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Abzeronow That's great! Sorry if it seemed like nitpicking! Thanks. Pam  D  16:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Dorothy Davids
If you have the time and inclination, could you give this one a copyedit. I'd love to nominate an Indigenous woman for the WIG peace activist's goal. SusunW (talk) 17:54, 6 August 2023 (UTC)


 * First thing tomorrow morning.--Ipigott (talk) 19:00, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. All looks OK except for "as having training future leaders" which I've removed from the last section.--Ipigott (talk) 09:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much Ian. I found two other "red links" writing her. Obviously her partner Ruth, who I put on the LGBT list and because the center where they both died was named Ella Besaw, I added her to the Indigenous list. She was a traditional healer. I appreciate your help. SusunW (talk) 16:03, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I see from this biography of Ruth Gudinas that Davids was known as Dot. Other sources mention her as "Aunt Dot". Maybe worth mentioning.--Ipigott (talk) 19:11, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Laphonza Butler
Hey! You welcomed me into Women in Red last week, and was hoping I could take you up on the offer to help. I meant to start a draft for Laphonza Butler but accidentally published. It's bare bones right now, but if you have time to give feedback, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you! Eventhisacronym (talk) 19:51, 9 August 2023 (UTC)


 * You've made a really good start on this, drawing on good sources and presenting the essentials of her success. You'll see I've added categories, etc. It would help if you provided a bit more information on the organizations and companies she has been involved with (especially SCRB Strategies, Airbnb and EMILY's list). The Career section looks rather like a CV. Perhaps you could add a bit more detail if you can find appropriate sources and avoid starting too many sentences with "In 20xx". Hope this helps. When you are happy with the result, you might consider submitting the article to DYK. Let me know if you need further assistance.--Ipigott (talk) 07:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help! I'm going to keep working on finding more sources for her recent work and see where we end up. Eventhisacronym (talk) 14:16, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Johanne Jørgensen
Hi Ipigott, I have stumbled upon this article on early cycling in Copenhagen with some interesting some interesting details about pioneering Danish women sports cuclists and events. One of them, Susanne Lindberg, turned out to be covered in Kvindebiografisk Leksikon and have a stub on Danish Wikipedia. The other one is Johanne Jørgensen (1870-). The article contains a great picture of her and some interesting details. In an article called Kønnenes kamp i sport og gymnastik, which can be found through Google at Tidsskrift.dk but not linked to (at least I don't know how to), there are is a bit more and some quite funny quotes. She is also briefly mentioned here but it is very limited what else I can find. The sources do mention some contemporary media international coverage, though. Som what I would like to know is if you or someone else from WIR might be interested in writing her a biography. Alternatively, I may give it a try, but I would then like to know if you think that there are enough sources sources to satisfy the need for notability. I would hate to spend time on putting something together if it just ends up being deleted.Ramblersen2 (talk) 12:59, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Good to hear from you, . It seems to me that both Susanne Lindberg and Johanne Jørgensen are notable enough. They are also both mentioned here and here. I see there are short Wikipedia articles in Danish on both Lindberg and Jørgensen. See also this page. There should also be press coverage if you can find it. Cycling is not one of my main interests for women's biographies but I may be able to help you along. I'm now trying to put something together on the novelist Iben Mondrup. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 13:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Question from Amato7ArtsCafe (00:45, 14 August 2023)
Hi, I'd like to create a wikipedia page for a cafe in japan in an historic area of the Yokohama area called 7Arts Cafe that is very interesting and is considered an historical landmark with a traditional Japanese menu and entertainment. I was wondering what reference sources of information would be acceptable for me to use in this article. Thank you. --Amato7ArtsCafe (talk) 00:45, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. I've left a welcome message on your talk page with links to sites which provide guidance on how to begin editing. In connection with the 7artscafe, I've found your page on the Yokohama Seasider as well as other promotional articles about the cafe but I'm afraid these are not suitable as a basis for creating a Wikipedia article. Articles on Wikipedia have to draw on reliable independent sources such as coverage in recognized newspapers and magazines, critical reviews and awards. See, for example, the article on Sukiyabashi Jiro. I'm afraid Wikipedia strongly discourages people to write articles about their own businesses or achievements. Furthermore, your user name is not suitable as it promotes your restaurant. If you wish to continue editing on Wikipedia, I would advise you to change it (see Changing username). I'm sorry I cannot provide more assistance on an article about the 7artscafe but would be glad to help you with articles on subjects with which you have no direct associations. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 06:02, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Question from Arnbiology (18:31, 15 August 2023)
Hello, can I change a reference page to a Article page, such as... ...change "Imagination philosophy" (references) page... ...to an "Imagination philosophy" new Article page... --Arnbiology (talk) 18:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. I see that in any case you found out how to start an article on Imagination philosophy which is now up for deletion. The main reason is that every Wikipedia article has to be based on reliable sources such as published books or recognized journals and newspapers. In this case, the French philosopher Gaston Bachelard is recognized for this topic. Sources you could use here include La Matérialité de l’Imaginaire chez Gaston Bachelard or Kaplan's Philosophy of Imagination: An Introduction. I see there is also some interesting backgroud in connection with David Hume. But before you start writing articles, you should follow some of the links on your talk page to learn more about Wikipedia and how to edit. Please let me know how you get on or if you run into any other problems. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 05:39, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, I was "editing" an existing PmWiki Thumbnail Article that I was trying to hyperlink the title of-for easier access to the Article...it's my "editing" that will be "Deleted" not the existing Article...I am moving to a sandbox to learn about Hyperlinking 'PmWiki Thumbnail Article Titles'. thanks, Arnie Arnbiology (talk) 16:46, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * : I'm afraid I'm not familiar with your thumnail wiki. I see there is information about it here but it is not part of Wikipedia or Wikimedia. If you wish to contribute to Wikipedia, you should follow the links from your talk page to see how to edit here. Please let me know if you need further assistance.--Ipigott (talk) 17:05, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You provided the PmWiki link for the Deletion discussion, Thanks... Arnbiology (talk) 20:44, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Apparently the "Deletion" seems resolved now,Thanks again.Arnbiology (talk) 17:59, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Request for help
Hello @Ipigott. If I'm not canvassing, I would like to ask you to have a look at this article Talk:Fatemehsadat Zanjani that proposed for deletion. I believe that the article (female tennis player) meets the General notability guidelines due to the media coverage by reliable sources. I might need your kind help to check and see if I'm correct or not. Thanks for your consideration. Ma.Sa.54 (talk) 21:32, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for asking for my opinion on this, . I'm afraid I'm no expert on the notability of tennis players but I'm not sure whether she meets the requirements under WikiProject Tennis/Article guidelines. As far as I can see, she is still a junior player but has not reached the basic requirements for inclusion. If you want to justify the article on the basis of WP:GNG, then you need to find sources with significant coverage of the subject, i.e. not just a mention of the person's name. If you can find significant reliable sources in Farsi or English, you should improve the article on the basis of the information they contain and then remove the proposed deletion tag. You could include WikiProgect Women in Red and/or WikiProject Tennis on the article's talk page, in which case members of these projects will be alerted to the proposal for deletion although I'm not sure their response would be positive without further improvements. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 06:18, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for following up on this. The Google translations of your additional Farsi sources seem to qualify for more detailed coverage. I've removed the tag.--Ipigott (talk) 06:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Noted. Thanks for your consideration :) Ma.Sa.54 (talk) 18:42, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Louisa Briggs
I have never written a biography quite like this one. Very difficult, especially because of the cultural significance of her history. I would very much appreciate if you could give it a look and a copyedit. No worries if you are too busy or not interested. SusunW (talk) 22:56, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I've managed to plough through it, faced with the difficulty of producing something readable and understandable given your usual desire to present things as fully as possible in the light of everything you find. I must say I found all the different accounts of her origin extremely confusing, especially as two experts with the same family name seem to have drawn different conclusions. Most accounts in national biographical dictionaries of countries like Australia tend to be reliable but I can see that you raise valid concerns. Maybe you should confer with Laura, perhaps suggesting improvements to the national biography. Personally, I think a less detailed version of the biography of this important Native woman would be more meaningful for the average Australian reader but I bow to your academic background. Nevertheless, you may consider reducing the section on origin, perhaps expanding on more detailed notes instead. In any case, I hope the minor changes I have made will prove useful. Hope you don't find these comments too critical. You know I am a strong admirer of all your work so don't take things too seriously.--Ipigott (talk) 16:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I genuinely appreciate your input. It was incredibly difficult to write. If you look at the history, I rearranged it a bunch of times because I just wasn't sure how to present all of the contradictions. I also noted the on-going challenge to her identity in the federal court, but didn't put anything about it in the lede, mainly because the newspaper article said that same people who are challenging her Victorian heritage admitted to the judge that they actually do believe she isn't Tasmanian and is Victorian and the Victorian Aboriginal Heritage Council said they are unlikely to change her status without some new hard evidence (which seems unlikely, given the extensive research already done, but possible). Fels, is one of the "experts" presenting evidence and she was the first to raise alarm bells about Laura Barwick's entry in the national biography supplement. I thought I'd also ask Kusma and Gog the Mild to weigh in and I'm still working on photos. I truly, truly appreciate your looking at it and your critique. SusunW (talk) 16:29, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

September 2023 at Women in Red
--Victuallers (talk) 16:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Request
Sir can you review this article Chaitra Reddy? Arumobileworld (talk) 10:31, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there, . Good to hear from you. You may have noticed I had in fact been editing the article before you sent this message. I've now looked more carefully into the sources, some of which seem to comment on her in more than just passing mentions. As you have been writing about several Indian actresses, you might like to become a member of WikiProject Women in Red where we are trying to reduce the gender gap. The project should be able to help you write better women's biographies. You can sign up under "New registrations" on WikiProject Women in Red/New members. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 11:32, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you Sir Arumobileworld (talk) 12:05, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Hodan Said Isse
Hi, could you please review and write as Neutral point of view of Draft:Hodan Said Isse and publish into a main space. — Preceding unsigned comment added by QalasQalas (talk • contribs) 11:36, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Despite the negative reviews, it seems to me your draft has been well prepared. I'll take a closer look at it later.--Ipigott (talk) 15:08, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I've tidied it up a bit and moved it to mainspace. Am I right in thinking her family name is Isse and her first name Hodan? If so, she should be referred to in the article as Isse (or as Hodan Isee) but not just as Hodan. Under defaultsort (still missing), she should then be listed as Isee, Hodan. Is her nationality just Somali or does she also have US citizenship?--Ipigott (talk) 07:34, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Her name is Hodan, Said is her father and Isse is her grandfather. QalasQalas (talk) 10:45, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I'll leave things as they are but I see under Category:20th-century Somalian women that other Somalian women are not usually referred to by their given name.--Ipigott (talk) 11:58, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * How nice of you to respond with a barnstar, . Much appreciated.--Ipigott (talk) 15:29, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi. if u have time please see Draft:Gunnel Adlercreutz. —Patricia ( Talk ) 15:37, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * For a start you could try to expand it on the basis of the Swedish version. And how about this?--Ipigott (talk) 15:55, 29 August 2023 (UTC) : And for family details see here.--Ipigott (talk) 16:09, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I searched all Finnish and Swedish sources. It was mainly a site for selling books and worthless talks. I got tired. Enough. I have decided to request a Speedy deletion of the G7 standard. —Patricia ( Talk ) 16:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * See further discussion on the draft article's talk page.--Ipigott (talk) 08:26, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

September thanks
Nice to see Marguerite Priola on the Main page today! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Good to see we can bring unknown French opera singers to a wide audience.--Ipigott (talk) 08:33, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. - Now pics around a memorable concert, and the story of Walter Arlen, - proud that I survived the decision in WP:ARBINFOBOX for 10 years, standing and singing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:11, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The infobox case makes interesting reading. For the benefit of those reading this page, I should point out that I do not add infoboxes to the articles I write (mainly biographies), as I believe the lead section should contain key basic information which can then be expanded in the article. This is common practise in the majority of recognized encyclopaedias and biographical dictionaries. I do not however object to others adding infoboxes to my articles, providing there is consensus. In accordance with Manual of Style/Infoboxes, I would nevertheless like to stress the following: "The less information [an infobox] contains, the more effectively it serves [to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article], allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance." and "The use of infoboxes is neither required nor prohibited for any article. Whether to include an infobox, which infobox to include, and which parts of the infobox to use, is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article."--Ipigott (talk) 06:34, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I support all that! The infobox case should have been (only) about infobox opera (then new), not biographies, because that was the conflict at the time. The arbs failed to see it, - such is life. (It was still kafkaesque that an arb voted to ban a friend because he had uncollapsed an infobox, and none of the others pointed out to him that he obviously had misread the diff.)
 * Many encyclopdias I know provide when and where a person lived and died before starting the rest, and that's exactly what I want an infobox to more (and want almost no more), and Beethoven and Sibelius do that, and why not, and why "wars" about it I fail to understand. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Today's story is about a great pianist with an unusual career, taking off when he was 50. It's the wedding anniversary of Clara and Robert Schumann, but I was too late with our gift. Just for fun: when do you think did Mrs. and Mr. Schumann get their infoboxes, and by whom? (The answer can be found here, but please think first.) - I worked today on an Italian soprano who - to my surprise - has no article in German, and is not mentioned in GSL. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:56, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't feel up to the infobox stuff. My comments here already seem to have caused unexpected reactions. As for Margherita Rinaldi, thanks for the informative article. I've also come across quite a few without coverage in GSL. If I was one of those clever techies, I'd scan the Großes Sängerlexikon for missing WP articles. I'm sure many of them would be worth developing.--Ipigott (talk) 16:33, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I wrote my own story, smiling that her first opera was also mine - listening, I mean. Tomorrow will be Jessye Norman, - I feel blessed to have heard her in concert. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:32, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Today I remember Raymond Arritt, who still helps me, five years after he died, per what he said in my darkest time on Wikipedia (placed in my edit-notice as a reminder), and by teh rulez. - Latest pics from a weekend in Berlin (one more day to come). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:47, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * : Sorry to hear you have experienced such dark times on Wikipedia. You've always struck me as one of the most positively minded contributors here, always ready to cheer the rest of us up. Fortunately, I've never faced any major problems on Wikipedia myself, possibly because I do everything possible to avoid disputes and edit wars. From the start, editing has been an enjoyable experience and continues to be so today.--Ipigott (talk) 05:24, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry that I was to cryptic, - did you look at my edit notice? I think I try to be kind and cheerful because of it. Thanks for the recognition! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:11, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Question from Hassam poi on Voice type (14:19, 3 September 2023)
Dhinacey baneysato waa arka Nasahey baneysata waa arka Waji xumadasi aqlaaq xumadasi Dadko ujeeda --Hassam poi (talk) 14:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * That's a beautiful Somali verse,, but we're now on the English Wikipedia. If you want guidance on how to edit in English, you'll find some useful links on your talk page. You might also be interested in the Somali version of Wikipedia. Let me know if you need further help.--Ipigott (talk) 14:38, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

 * Thank you, . Good to see you are becoming a member of Women in Red.--Ipigott (talk) 09:19, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Joana Morais Varela
Hi Ian. How are you? I just uploaded this page. However, I am wondering whether the last section is the sort of thing that should be included in a Wiki article and would welcome your advice. If it seems OK with you, would it be acceptable to add that the subject of the article is bipolar, which would explain a lot of the previous para? Many thanks.Roundtheworld (talk) 08:49, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks fine to me. If she has publicly announced she is bipolar, then you could mention. The bio details on the talk page stated she was no longer living but this does not appear to be the case. As for her marriages, I don't know if you can find sources but it would be useful to mention the name of her second husband, whether she is still married and whether she has any children. But you can just keep things as they are and leave further additions to other contributors. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 09:29, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. re Bio details on talk page, too much copying and pasting in haste.Roundtheworld (talk) 09:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Women in Green GA Editathon October 2023 - Around the World in 31 Days
 Hello :

WikiProject Women in Green is holding a  month-long Good Article Edit-a-thon event in October 2023!

Running from October 1 to 31, 2023, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) edit-a-thon event with the theme Around the World in 31 Days! All experience levels welcome. Never worked on a GA project before? We'll teach you how to get started. Or maybe you're an old hand at GAs – we'd love to have you involved! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to women and women's works (e.g., books, films) during the event period. We hope to collectively cover article subjects from at least 31 countries (or broader international articles) by month's end. GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to earn a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.

We hope to see you there!

Alanna the Brave (talk) 00:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

You are receiving this message as a member of the WikiProject Women in Green. You can remove yourself from receiving notifications here.

Question from Introvertedwriter1995 (11:57, 22 September 2023)
Hi,

I'm new here as you already know, and still getting the hang of things. I'm interested in editing and creating articles on notable people in our society, living or dead. I'm still not sure what type of sources can be referenced for these articles, esp for people who are still alive. For example, if I were to create an article on a living person in a certain field I'm knowledgeable about, such as marketing or holistic health, how popular should they be? If I can't find articles for reputable newspapers or journals, are they still considered notable if their contributions to their community are recognized on other platforms? I'm trying to learn how to research and not work on sth that won't be viable to be published here. Thank you :) --Introvertedwriter1995 (talk) 11:57, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. It's good to hear you are interested in covering people in fields such as marketing and holistic health although I should warn you that Wikipedia does not encourage articles about people with whom you have personal relationships. In writing biographies, especially about living people, it is important to draw on sources which are independent of the subject. The notability of the person should be supported by reliable sources such as newspapers, journals, published books, biographical dictionaries or critical reviews of works or achievements. Awards and related presentations could also be useful. I see you have started a draft on Dr. Peter Dobias, no doubt the vet. As far as I can see, there are no solid independent sources on which you could draw as contributions to blogs and social media are not considered reliable. In my welcome message on your talk page, you'll find links to pages which offer guidance on Wikipedia and how to cope with the technicalities of editing. I suggest you look into these and then decide how you want to proceed. You are of course welcome to contact me if you decide to draft an article or if you have any other queries. I hope you don't find all this too discouraging. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 12:49, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your message and support, @Ipigott! I've been reading a lot these days on Wikipedia's definition of notability and what independent sources are, and I noticed that the topic I chose has very little in terms of reliable sources, as you also pointed out. I'm going to do more in-depth research before I drop this topic, since I'm interested in documenting people that bring positive change in the space of holistic healing especially when it comes to animal care. I'll eventually choose another topic/person that's more likely to be supported by reliable, independent sources, if I can't find anything on the holistic vet I chose. Thank you again for your help and resources and making this space welcoming for newbies! :) Introvertedwriter1995 (talk) 12:59, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for you kind reaction, . If you are really interested in providing support for people like this, you might consider encouraging news sources and related professional journals to start covering their achievements. That would provide Wikipedia and others with a basis for writing about them. That said, I would still encourage you to begin by drafting an article about someone who already meets the criteria for notability. It might be easier for you to start with someone who is no longer living as you should be able to draw on useful information from obituaries. You might also be interested in including entries in Wikidata where there are no notability requirements.--Ipigott (talk) 13:26, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your recommendations, @Ipigott! I'll have a look at Wikidata as well :) Introvertedwriter1995 (talk) 15:36, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Possible new woman in red to blue?
Dear Ipigott, I hope you are doing fine. I have had a go at a new woman in red. Her name is Marva Lee Pitchford-Jolly, a ceramicist this time. I wonder if you would have time to look at the draft and see what you think? It's not very long but it might be a possible? Balance person (talk) 09:15, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Always good to hear from you. Interesting kind of craftsmanship. I've moved Marva Lee Pitchford-Jolly to mainspace where you can continue to work on it if you wish.--Ipigott (talk) 09:32, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh that is great! Thank you!Balance person (talk) 09:36, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red October 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 10:53, 29 September 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Question from Teddythedev on Questions (15:36, 29 September 2023)
How do I get rid of this annoying space between my userbox? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Teddythedev --Teddythedev (talk) 15:36, 29 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there, . Good to hear from you. One way of filling in the space on your user page would be to tell us more about why you are interested in Wikipedia. You could also include pictures of your home town or region. If you are interested in creating articles yourself, you could tell us which ones or ask for advice about how to proceed. And if you are not too interested in what I have suggested, why not look at the user pages of a few other users? Let me know how you get on and if you need any help.--Ipigott (talk) 17:13, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Question from Jade.128 (21:09, 29 September 2023)
Heya Ipigott!

I was wondering whether there was a better way to edit articles than the default editor on the site.

Maybe I'm just inexperienced, but im having a lot of trouble with it and it feels like it's more working against me than helping.

Do you know of any resources I could look at? --Jade.128 (talk) 21:09, 29 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there, and welcome to Wikipedia. You'll see I've left a welcome message on your talk page with links to pages which should help you along with editing. From your draft about the Dortmund festival, it looks as if you are already coping quite well. You might also find it useful to look at Help:Mobile access. Please let me know if you run into any problems or need further assistance. Happy editing.--Ipigott (talk) 07:30, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Question from Theybothdieintheend on Northumbria Police and Crime Commissioner (05:15, 1 October 2023)
Hello and ask your questions!

I’ve been looking through the domestic abuse part, and have archived a link. But I can’t find any up to date info on the MASH pilot or wether they have actually incorporated this are of crime at all. What can i do? --Theybothdieintheend (talk) 05:15, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and thanks for contacting me. Not all pertinent information can be found on the internet. There may well be useful items in the local press which could be found in libraries or archives. I would suggest you explain what you are looking for on the article's talk page in the hope that someone may be able to help. In the meantime, unsourced details should be removed from the article. I see that the editors who contributed most of the content are no longer active. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 06:08, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you so much! Theybothdieintheend (talk) 06:34, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

"WP Women in Business" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WP_Women_in_Business&redirect=no WP Women in Business] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. * Pppery * it has begun... 15:51, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see no further discussion is needed.--Ipigott (talk) 15:56, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

October music
My story today is sad but great. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:42, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

A few more pics, and see my talk for what we sang today (I'm the woman in red), and what Tabea Zimmermann played (today's story on her birthday): I heard it, and it's on YouTube. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your interesting article on Maria, dich lieben ist allzeit mein Sinn but I could not find the full text of Maria, dich lieben although you do provide a link to the text of Maria zu lieben. Perhaps you could include another appropriate External link. Thanks also for all your work on Jacqueline Dark.--Ipigott (talk) 06:21, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm just looking about one line to say about Dark for my story, and find it not easy: too much good stuff. - The text: Wikipedia is very strict about copyright, so no, no link would be appropriate for a 1972 creation, see here (in red). Perhaps I should expand about it in plot style. It's really amazing how Gotteslob got away with such things. Like these buildings with a facade from centuries ago, and modern efficiency behind it, Humboldt Forum the latest of those that I saw, but that was demolished, so they had to do something. Funny thing for the song: it has been accepted, even Protestants can't blame anything, and yes, much in the old beloved versions must have been hard to still get behind in the 20th century. While the new was sung on two occasions within about a week. - Did you know that I had no idea of all this until I wrote the article, having "grown up" with the new version? I wonder if I should quote some sources for protests, though. If only days had 50 hours. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:39, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

More pics, and today's story is on a birthday, and the real DYK was already on that birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you today for having improved Fausta Labia whose image features on the Main page (again)! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:01, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * And thanks to for doing such a good job on the picture.--Ipigott (talk) 08:07, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I came to you after thanking Adam ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Deutsche Gründlichkeit!--Ipigott (talk) 08:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Love it ;) - I love to thank! - I remembered that in 2021, you made a list of top composers and their state of infobox, and just for fun, I added after a dot changes since then:
 * Mozart: no · yes
 * Beethoven: yes
 * Bach: yes
 * Tchaikovsky: no · yes
 * Chopin: no · yes
 * Brahms: no
 * Debussy: no
 * Handel: yes
 * Vivaldi: no
 * Haydn: no
 * Verdi: no
 * Schubert: no
 * Mahler: no
 * Wagner: no · yes
 * Liszt: yes
 * Stravinsky: yes
 * Schumann: yes
 * Mendelssohn: no · yes
 * Elgar: no
 * Rachmaninooff: no · yes
 * I still won't work on changes but see with some contentment, that not only there's a trend, but they are now already the majority. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:30, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Lovely boxers' pic! - Today, it's a place that inspired me, musings if you have time. My corner for memory and music has today a juxtaposition of what our local church choirs offer. After a round of sharing I'll return to a Romanian woman who was a great composer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:00, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Carmen Petra Basacopol is progressing well.--Ipigott (talk) 13:04, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, today's topic. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * 7k+ views, good for her! - And today it's about a couple - found the cute image only yesterday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * A French woman today with a small body and a great voice whose portrayal of a role with different aspects I enjoyed! And another interesting composer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:13, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I thought of Brian Bouldton today, and his ways to compromise. - I'm on vacation again, more pics to come, but too tired after church (pictured on my talk), hiking and paella. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Seekingmentalhelp on Five pillars (09:32, 14 October 2023)
Hello, thank you for being patient and I agree to my terms. --Seekingmentalhelp (talk) 09:32, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. I've left a welcome message on your talk page with links which should help you to learn how to edit. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 05:36, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Seekingmentalhelp on Help desk (09:41, 15 October 2023)
Hello, I want to continue and contribute but I am hesitant. Is there any way to get some assurance in what direction I should be going? --Seekingmentalhelp (talk) 09:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * If you can tell me where you come from and what your interests are I may be able to offer more help. Alternatively, you could perhaps pick up something from this Google search list of videos. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 10:54, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I am Raymond the second, count of Tripoli.
 * My intention are to focus on a more civil type of studies and to adjust my thinking. My other main focus to improve on shall be not always trusting my eye site and trusting the words of loved ones Seekingmentalhelp (talk) 14:30, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Seekingmentalhelp on User talk:Ipigott (19:04, 15 October 2023)
Hello, I uninstalled a driver in my user settings and am wondering how to enable again, my apologies. --&#45;--- (talk) 19:04, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I think this and other queries would be better directed to your talk page. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 20:44, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Vere Hodgson.... a possible?
Dear Ipigott, I hope you are doing well? I came across a Wikipedia page for a book ('Few eggs and no oranges') but no page for the author (Vere Hodgson). I don't know if this is common in Wikipedia but it struck me as strange especially as her writing as been used to corroborate WW2 happenings and the adaptability of those undergoing the blitz etc. So, I have drafted a page for her. It is not very long but perhaps, if you have time, you might see if there is any merit in it? Thanks if you can. Balance person (talk) 14:49, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Already looks pretty good to me. You could perhaps make sure all the paragraphs end with a reference. Once you have taken care of this, I can move it to mainspace.--Ipigott (talk) 15:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, sorry I should have done that before. I think I have taken care of it now. Thanks. If I find more on her, I will of course add it but have found nothing more yet. Balance person (talk) 16:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, I think that is okay now. Over to you to move it, only if you are happy with it of course. Balance person (talk) 21:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making the necessary additions, . It's now in mainspace. You'll see I've added categories, etc. I was surprised to see how often she has been mentioned in other articles. Click on "What links here" to see them all. And let me know when your next draft is ready.--Ipigott (talk) 16:14, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh that is great! Thank you. I am rubbish at categories! Yes, I thought she was worth doing when I found Arundel Gardens and the Rowley. Super! Balance person (talk) 16:18, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello again Dear Ipigott, I have found one more possible (the last one I think) from the 'forgotten woman writers' on the Persephone list. I don't know if it is good enough. She is Elizabeth Myers (author) not to be confused with Liz Myers the American musician. There are others on the Persephone list not in Wikipedia but they do not seem notable to me. This author seems to me to be as she wrote and published so much in a very short life and when she was apparently quite ill. Anyway, you will judge I am sure if there is any merit in the page. Also I made a mistake trying to add EM to the end of the Persephone Books list of authors. I wanted to make her a woman in red but it seems to have linked up with the other E M and the name is blue and I don't know how to fix that. Oh dear! Balance person (talk) 17:25, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll look at it tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 19:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Looking forward to hearing what you think! Balance person (talk) 10:13, 23 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I've moved Elizabeth Myers (author) to mainspace. There's a problem with a reference. Perhaps you can take care of it.--Ipigott (talk) 10:51, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I am happy that EM is now on main page. Thank you. And I have read the help page about the red alert several times. I am really sorry but I cannot understand what I have done wrong or how to correct it. I have not used curly brackets. I think I have cited everyone correctly. So sorry to take up more of your time but can you tell me what I have done? Balance person (talk) 11:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe it is because I use visual editor? Balance person (talk) 11:33, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've looked at the article and I really can't see what's wrong.--Ipigott (talk) 13:53, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've fixed it. It was actually my fault as I moved the Further reading section down below the refs (where it should be) but as there was a ref there it reported a problem. Good to see you made no mistakes yourself.--Ipigott (talk) 13:52, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah! Thanks. That's a relief although of course I should know that the Further reading goes below the refs. I will note that for the future! Balance person (talk) 14:32, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Machine translations
Hi Ipigott, I see you have contributed to a recent ANI thread on the subject of creating articles by machine translation. I think it is important to be able to understand the source language so you can fix problems, but I haven't found a clear policy. What do you think? TSventon (talk) 20:48, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for contacting me on this important matter. The following comments may be useful.
 * As a pioneer in the development of machine translation between European languages back in the 1970s, I have considerable experience of the subject. Until about 15 to 20 years ago, I would have strongly agreed that a knowledge of the source language was a prerequisite for using MT for creating English articles on Wikipedia. I must admit, though, that recent advances based on the use of AI to deal with huge volumes of text have brought the quality of translation between major language pairs up to a remarkably high level. The results are of course particularly good when the text to be translated is clearly presented. In cases where this is not the case, serious mistranslations can occur, sometimes so well presented that they appear to be correct. Contributors including and  have occasionally asked me to check articles based on machine translations from the languages I know pretty well (DA, DE, ES, FR, IT, NL, NO, PT, SV). In some cases, little needs to be done while in others important details need to be corrected. That said, the overall quality of many of our translated women's biographies, particularly those by Susun, have reached a standard of quality well beyond average. In conclusion, it seems to me that the careful use of machine translation is an increasingly valid option for translating articles from other language versions of Wikipedia, although in all cases the translation needs to be carefully edited. Mistranslated pronouns are frequently a problem as are the names of organizations, historical events and even place names (which can often be corrected on the basis of the titles of articles in English). As for my own work, although many of my biographies are inspired by articles in other languages, I nearly always draw on reliable foreign-language sources myself, frequently completely rewriting and expanding the presentation. Many of the biographies in other language versions were written years ago and often fail to take account of more recent research or, in the case of BLPs, of recent achievements.
 * It's all a rather complex business but in my experience, seasoned editors generally seem to do a pretty good job in translating from other Wikipedia versions. Nevertheless, knowledge of the language(s) involved is obviously always an asset. As you probably know, quite a number of contributors fluent in the less familiar languages are willing to assist. I hope all this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 06:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I've used machine-generated translation of Spanish, French, and Catalan Wikipedia content to create/improve EN-WP articles but I do so with the understanding of the source language. I don't think we have a policy on the topic. --Rosiestep (talk) 11:08, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * We might not have an "official" policy but Help:Translation warns against its use:


 * Machine translation can have difficulty with individual words or expressions for many reasons, including false friends, false cognates, literal translation, neologisms, slang, idiomatic expressions and other unrecognized compounds, words with multiple meanings, words with specialized meanings in certain knowledge domains different from a common meaning of a word in a more general context, unwarranted translation of proper names, and other reasons. Wikipedia consensus is that an unedited machine translation, left as a Wikipedia article, is worse than nothing.


 * This has not been edited since February 2021 and was part of WP:Translation long before that. As I have been personally involved in MT, I have not tried to change anything but I certainly think it's time to present more realistic and helpful guidance. (WP:Intertranswiki seems indirectly to be more encouraging but cannot be considered as policy.)--Ipigott (talk) 12:30, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I will say that I write articles on many, many women and most of them are on international figures. Having a broad knowledge of history, and in particular women's history, is invaluable for providing context to the biographies I write. For the record, I am proficient only in English, but live in Mexico and have a working understanding of Spanish. I also studied Latin and German many years ago and thus can recognize base words that help with other Romance or Germanic languages. That said, I don't translate articles from other WPs but may use the sources that they used if they meet the requirements of en.WP RS. I use a slew of machine translators and typically more than one to evaluate the source material. I have found that for example Systran is best for Dutch, Yandex is best for Japanese and Russian and other languages that use a cyrillic alphabet, Google works pretty well for Romance languages, as does the Bing/Microsoft translator, etc. Often I will pull a source up in multiple translators and compare them.
 * If I then still have an issue, I consult with one of the multitude of specialists I have in my network, or at the language help desk, the same as I would do if say the woman is a scientist and I need an expert to evaluate her field of expertise, or an indigenous or LGBT person and I want to comply with culturally sensitive presentation. Upon completion of every article, I ask for a review by one or more editors I trust to ensure that it is accurate and in-line with the sources. If WP editors were doing word for word translations, it might be a problem to write articles using machine translators; however, since we are summarizing those source materials in our own words, I don't see their use as a problem for serious editors whose actual goal is creating accurate, educational material. Translation machines are merely tools that are invaluable, but they can be used wisely or abused, just as anything else. It depends entirely upon the integrity of the user. SusunW (talk) 13:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * SusunW, that sounds ideal, but many editors will not have the confidence or ability to write a better article than the foreign language article they started with. I have published a handful of machine translations with only minor adjustments, but only where I was familiar with the source language and had been able to verify the references. It is interesting to see your take on the different alternative tools, perhaps WiR needs a how-to essay on translating women's biographies.
 * Ian, the one guideline on translating from another Wikipedia is at WP:TFOLWP, which says that the source should be acknowledged in an edit summary, while putting a note on the talk page is optional. I think the best advice for new editors is to follow the guideline, what do you think?
 * Going back to the ANI thread, hopefully the help offered will resolve the issue. TSventon (talk) 23:21, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Like Susun, I have made use of the many different MT systems she lists. Editors might still wish to experiment with those available but I must say the results from the highly popular Google translate have improved so significantly that it might not be worthwhile. Although I was behind the development of Systran for Dutch, it seems to me that Google now also produces equally good, if not better translations. While we have been dealing principally with women's biographies here, the translations from other fields of interest are of comparable quality. One aspect which hasn't been addressed is the use of machine translation to provide a preliminary English version of an article from another language version of Wikipedia as a basis for further work, partly on the basis of the sources mentioned and partly on the basis of new searches. As for knowledge of the source language being a necessary requirement, I think we have reached the point where a carefully edited machine translation can provide a fully acceptable article in English. I have come across some editors who frequently provide stubs based on machine translations from languages they do not understand, often with a hatnote suggesting that the article can be expanded on the basis of the full article in the other language. This seems to me to be a sensible and useful approach.
 * Even in cases where I completely rewrite an article, I always state in my first edit comment that my creation has been inspired by the article in another language. It seems to me it is always worthwhile avoiding any possible problems of attribution. I also include the translated template on the article's talk page. When I come across "translated" articles, if they are new I draw the creator's attention to the need for attribution but would welcome a simpler way of dealing with the problem in cases when the article has been extensively expanded by several editors since its creation. It seems to me pretty artificial to include an edit comment at that stage. Perhaps an adaptation of the translated template on the talk page would serve the purpose.
 * As for the ANI incident, I simply assumed that given the willingness of editors to offer help, the incident could be considered resolved. This was indeed a very strange case as it had been suggested that the contributor should no longer translate from her own mother tongue.
 * In the light of these lengthy discussions, I think it would be useful to provide better guidance on how to make use of machine translations, especially in cases when articles in one or more other versions of Wikipedia have led to a new article in English. We have to move with the times. The problems with machine translations listed in Help Translation are no longer pertinent.--Ipigott (talk) 06:35, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

As Ipigott says, the quality of machine translations. particularly DeepL, have become so good now that there shouldn't still be major concerns about not having an understanding of the language, at least not in ones like Spanish, French, Italian, German, Portuguese, Dutch and Swedish. Ten years back, there were still a lot of problems with the technology. As somebody who has been learning a lot of languages over the last three years, the only problem I've encountered is Spanish quotes from Argentine newspapers about films which don't often translate well and the occasional mistranslation from common speech which can sometimes be taken too literally. I have communicated with locals in various languages using machine translations for three years and not one has ever said "you make no sense". I also think writing in your own words is a good idea, particularly if the content on another wiki is unsourced. If I encounter translated text which is awkward I tend to leave it out anyway. I think English Wikipedia needs to be doing more to translate content from other Wikis if anything. I wish there was something we could do to scale the Intertranswiki project.♦ Dr. Blofeld  08:53, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I've suggested on Help talk:Translation that the section on "Avoid machine translation" should be updated. Anyone prepared to contribute?--Ipigott (talk) 12:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Request
Greetings! This is related to Draft:Sabine Desvallières from WiR. I faced a problem on this. I couldn't see any editor who earlier edited this draft. The previous draft version had few incomplete information that I have updated. I am not sure about issues related to this draft. This is to seek your guidance. Thank you so much for your valuable time. With thanks & regards, Thirukannan (talk) 11:59, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I vaguely remember earlier discussions about this. In any case, as your draft seemed to me to be well presented, I moved it to mainspace. I've indicated that it might have been based on the French article. You might also like to add a WiR template to the talk page. Please let me know if you think I can help you further with this or other articles.--Ipigott (talk) 13:42, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your kind help and prompt response. Thirukannan (talk) 14:16, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from CharacterAiSolos (21:19, 22 October 2023)
How rizz up woman? --CharacterAiSolos (talk) 21:19, 22 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. You will find some links on your talk page to pages offering guidance on how to start editing. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 05:28, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Help!
@Ipigott Hey! I need your help let me when you are available? ~ India cup 12:57, 23 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I have replied on your talk page. You can always describe your problem there and ping me. I will usually be able to deal with it fairly quickly.--Ipigott (talk) 14:08, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks ~ India cup 14:16, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Elon Musk's Dickipedia
For those who would like some light relief, just look for the latest news on Dickipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 16:05, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

The pinged stay pinged!
Hallo Ian, I got a notification that you'd mentioned me on this page, but when I clicked to follow it up I got to your talk page with a little box telling me that "This comment could not be found: it might have been deleted or moved". I can see what happened, by rummaging around in the page history! It might cause less confusion to strike through, rather than remove, any comment pinging someone else, next time, as the editor will still be notified even if you delete the pinging post. Glad you resolved the mystery, anyway. All the best, Pam  D  19:09, 23 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Extremely sorry for bothering you, . It's just that you so usefully comment on my talk page from time to time that I thought you might have been able to sort things out before I realized I had caused the problem myself. I must say I'm not familiar with "strike through" although I see I ought to be more familiar with it. My efforts to help people along have caused unintentional upsets. In the edit markup, I cannot find "strike through" or "strike" although it seems to be mentioned in Help:HTML_in_wikitext but is apparently not recommended. Can you point to other more pertinent advice or explanations? Again, apologies for disturbing you. I'll be more careful in future. Happy editing!--


 * No problem, Ian, my comment here was for your information, not a complaint! The "strike-through" code is and the result looks like this . I see people using it from time to time in discussions, perhaps changing a !vote in an AfD discussion. There is always more to learn about editing Wikipedia.  Pam  D  20:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * See also WP:REDACT in the talk page guidelines, which recommends using, which looks the same as  . TSventon (talk) 20:26, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for you for your explanations. I had in fact misunderstood the Help:HTML link I quoted above. It also said use but I took this to mean delete. I now see it is the preferred alternative to .--Ipigott (talk) 05:36, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * If "del" is preferred over "s", it's strange that the latter, but not the former, is available as a choice in the editing box in source editing! I might raise that somewhere, as it seems out of kilter. Pam  D  06:27, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Where exactly is the editing box in source editing? Couldn't find it.--Ipigott (talk) 06:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I thought I wasn't describing it well! I don't use VE, and when I click "Edit" I get a display which includes a box with Bold, Italic, citation templates in a drop-down menu, etc above the input box, and options including "Wiki Markup", which includes "s", below. It's just my normal mode of editing - though evidently not yours. I have no idea what historical set of choices, .js tweaks, etc, has led to my current setup. If I'm on my phone I can get to the same editing system, but with difficulty.  Pam  D  07:31, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've found Help:Wikitext which says Outside of articles, it can be used to mark something as no longer accurate or relevant without removing it from view., which I think covers this sort of situation. I read the previous point, Help:Wikitext as telling us to use "del" only when indicating a deleted piece of text, eg in a change to a constitution. Pam  D  07:38, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that s is far better than del, especially in connection with our talk pages but the various write-ups are rather confusing. I've now found s in the edit box but until now had never looked into it. As you say, Pam, we learn something every day.--Ipigott (talk) 08:53, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Mrs. Ngo Ba Thanh
If you have the time or interest, I would appreciate your review and copyedit of this article. I have asked George for help with the photos. As much as it pains me to obscure her identity behind her husband's after consultation, this seems the best way to style it. I'd like to nominate her for WIG's editathon this month, if we can finish the review and get photos. SusunW (talk) 17:21, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Good to hear from you again after quite a long break. Looks interesting. I'll go through it tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 17:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Whatever they say, I really think you should title it Phạm Thị Thanh Vân with any Mrs/Madam redirects you think are necessary.--Ipigott (talk) 17:55, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I thought so too, but was overruled. I did a bunch of redirects. It's difficult because "my" instinct is that it is disrespectful to call her by her first name and hide her identity behind her husband's, but culturally, after numerous on and off wiki discussions, that is the respectful way to name her. I appreciate your help. SusunW (talk) 19:04, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks very odd, to me, to refer to her in the article by a name which is not part of the article title: very confusing, even if it's what an expert recommends. Pam  D  22:27, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I totally get it. But WP rule says call her by what the sources call her, which is most often her husband's name. No title, no changes, his exact name. That to me seemed absolutely ludicrous, so I began asking what to do. SusunW (talk) 22:39, 24 October 2023 (UTC)


 * You've certainly made a great job of researching her life. I've carried out an initial copy edit but I have the feeling that in the light of her considerable importance, it might be necessary to undertake a more careful review. I feel quite strongly about the title. Although the Vietnamese article is titled Bà Ngô Bá Thành (Mrs Ngô Bá Thành) and her writings are ascribed to "Ngô, Bá Thành (Mrs.)", despite the advice you have received from Wikipedia experts, I think you should call her by her own name rather than that of her husband. Otherwise the article is well written and there was not much to change expect the link to what should have been Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. I see that the French National Library includes this reference to her own name, which should eventually appear under authority control. Jimmy Wales keeps reminding us that there are no rules on Wikipedia. I think this is a case in which we should stand on our principles, break the so-called rules developed by others, and restore Phạm Thị Thanh Vân as the title of the article. You can then use a note to explain the alternatives. On this, I would welcome reactions from, , and .--Ipigott (talk) 13:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I would definitely appreciate the input as it is a conundrum. I should point out that I put the Mrs. in her publications. Both her husband's and her own publications in worldcat are simply listed as Ngo, Ba Thanh, so one must wade through whether they are about fish or law. I am happy to call it by whatever consensus is, and perhaps that should take place on the article talk page? Thank you so much for your copyediting expertise. I appreciate your help very much. Repinging . SusunW (talk) 13:42, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Commented at the article talk. Johnbod (talk) 17:51, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You're really quick in picking things up Susun. I was in the process of reviewing my changes and discovered one or two errors had already been fixed (but not too happy about removing the wl on Nixon who might not be known to everyone). And here you repinged Johnbod although I had fixed the typo within less than a minute! But it's great to know there's such reliable double-checking. In future, I'll be more careful and make better use of "Show preview"---Ipigott (talk) 13:51, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * LOL Ian. George hopped in with a few changes too . Nixon is linked in the sentence above so I didn't see the need for the second link. I also tried to input the BNF link to wikidata but got some weird error. Hopefully someone can fix it. SusunW (talk) 13:57, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry about Nixon. Hadn't noticed. I've now copied the above discussion to the article's talk page where further comments can continue.--Ipigott (talk) 14:01, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I truly appreciate your help with her. I was very, very happy to have discovered her. Finally got the last source on the one I started before her, so I'm trying to wrap it up too and will post here when I'm ready. SusunW (talk) 14:06, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I was wondering whether it would be worthwhile looking into the following from the Vietnamese article: "She then we.nt to Spain to study Law at the University of Barcelona and received an excellent doctorate in Company Law. She was personally invited by the Secretary General of the United Nations at that time, Mr. Dag Hammarskjöld, to work for the international law department as the first Vietnamese female lawyer fluent in three legal systems and three English foreign languages. , France and Spain . However, she refused to accept the position of Director of Scientific Research and Director of Organizations at the International School of Paris." (Google translation).--Ipigott (talk) 14:13, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is worthy of the article's talk page but if you look at articles beginning with Mrs. (see also previous and following pages), you'll find very few, if any, which are the main titles of a biography. Thought this might be useful.--Ipigott (talk) 14:49, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I put in both the International University of Comparative Law and the UN offer but without the "first" and language fluency. Other sources say she was fluent in French and English. Obviously she did write in Spanish, but was she fluent? I also put in that that university was based in Luxembourg and Strasbourg, because I had hope that that might help someone identify it. I had no luck in my searches. SusunW (talk) 14:56, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * At least two of the sources for the Vietnamese article say that she was fluent in English, French and Spanish and that was why Dag Hammarskjöld invited her to work for the United Nations. Of less importance but none the less interesting is the fact that she won a shorthand typing competition in France. You can read the Vietnamese version in English here. If you click on the sources, you'll see that after a few seconds they come up in English. I find this kind of use of machine translation particularly useful.--Ipigott (talk) 15:05, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Added both of those. SusunW (talk) 15:52, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There are minor points but it's good to have them included.--Ipigott (talk) 20:17, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've had a few instances where I've (begrudgingly) created a woman's biography with the "Mrs." title, e.g., Mrs. Alex. McVeigh Miller, Mrs. Bartle Teeling, Mrs. Findley Braden, Mrs. I. Lowenberg, Mrs. L. Dow Balliett, Mrs. A. M. Palmer. As mentioned above by others, we have to go with the sources. I've also encountered instances where I've uploaded batches of women's photos from PD books and had to start the file name with "Mrs.". I remind myself that in different times, different places, there were different customs. --Rosiestep (talk) 09:10, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for weighing in . And yes, it is a conundrum I often spend hours trying to recover a woman's actual name. I think between Kusma's idea to treat it like a pseudonym and Johnbod's proposal to switch the Mrs. him to first it's more logical and still in line with the sources. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm glad to see this has been sorted out (see also the article's sort page) and that we are keeping Mrs. Ngo Ba Thanh. I also see that recently created Madam Ghurka.--Ipigott (talk) 13:31, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I really appreciate your help with her and the discussion about the name. Got some good insights and perspectives that will help with future work. SusunW (talk) 14:27, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Yoko Matsuoka (writer)
This is the other one for the WiG editathon. I've asked PamD to help with a disamb page. If you would give it a copyedit, I'd be most appreciative. SusunW (talk) 15:56, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll look at it tomorrow. I'm really impressed with all the progress on the WiG editathon.--Ipigott (talk) 16:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Very much appreciate your help. SusunW (talk) 17:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. A long and very interesting read with little need for copy editing. The extent of your research is impressive. Daughter of the Pacific dates back to 1952. Despite her coverage in the works included in your bibliography, it seems surprising to me that apparently no one has written a dedicated biography, not even in Japanese. Fortunately we now have your account.--Ipigott (talk) 12:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help. I think she was probably a thorn-in-the-side of the Japanese, US, and USSR governments. Vocal, stubborn women have rarely been treated kindly by history, but I knew as soon as I discovered her I wanted to write her. I truly appreciate your help on both of these. They weren't easy to write, but give a side to our peace initiative that was missing, IMO. SusunW (talk) 14:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Now you're being over-critical, Susun. If she had been a man, she would not have been stubborn, she would have been decisive and influential, no doubt bringing about major policy changes. As a women, her opinions could simply be ignored. It's interesting to see that her major concerns have not yet been resolved. I actually wonder whether her writing was her major asset. I see the Japanese article, however rudimentary, calls her a "critic" in the title. Perhaps she was really more of a political commentator. But I'm not suggesting you should change anything, although we could perhaps add Category:Japanese political commentators to her biography.--Ipigott (talk) 15:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not criticizing her, just history and the way women have been seen and treated. I see lots of parallels between our very different lives, even to first being exposed to the idea of racism (it existed but I was not aware of it) in the 2nd grade. And yes, one of the reasons I found her compelling is that she looked at issues then that are still relevant. Like you, I think her import was in her social evaluations and I love that you found that category! SusunW (talk) 21:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red - November 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 08:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Question from Odumuyiwa88 (13:38, 26 October 2023)
Hello Mentor, Nice meeting you,

I want to start writing article how can i begin?

Thank you --Odumuyiwa88 (talk) 13:38, 26 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. On your talk page, you'll find some links which will help you to make a start with editing. If you let me know here or on your user page where you come from and what you are interested in, I may be able to help you further. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 16:08, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Translating biographies
I see from the WiR page that there is the possibility of making a bio page for Leonie Coicou-Madiou, one of the red link names from the Caribbean research tome. I know very little about her or Haiti. I have found a page for her that I can Google translate into English or French from the Haitian or Spanish wikis. My question is a basic one. If someone has a page in another language, is it a good idea to just translate it into English paraphrasing so that it is not exactly the same? Or is the fact that they 'exist' in another language wiki 'enough'? And could I just use the same references as in the original page? I have some French but am not bi-lingual. Given that a basic search on the English language internet throws up very very little about her, I would not be adding anything to the original I think. But it would be good for English speakers to know she existed. I would be grateful for your thoughts but no hurry! Balance person (talk) 15:30, 26 October 2023 (UTC)


 * This is an interesting question and I'm pretty sure you would receive different answers from different contributors. While I know there are quite a number of editors who do a pretty good job of simply translating articles from other versions of Wikipedia and drawing on the sources used, my own approach is to look more carefully into the life of the subject and to draw on any additional sources I can find. But if you would like to make a start by using Google translate to translate the Spanish article and its sources, I could perhaps help you along. Make a start and we'll see how it goes.--Ipigott (talk) 16:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much. My own doubts exactly. I will make a start then but it will be a couple of days before I can get to it. Big concert coming up! Thanks again Balance person (talk) 16:31, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello again. I have made a start on Leonie Coicou Madiou. I don't know how to indicate that it was originally on other language wikipedia pages. I have avoided translating word for word. There is doubt whether she just stood for the position of Mayor or whether she actually won the election. On balance it seems not. Well, I don't know if you can do anything with the text? Fingers crossed! I notice that there is a photo of her in the Commons but I would have to learn how to do that later on if the page becomes acceptable. Victuallers offered to teach me how to add photos some time ago so I would go back and ask him to help! Thanks for your own help with this, as ever! Balance person (talk) 09:46, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for Léonie Coicou Madiou which is now in mainspace. To indicate attribution, you simple need to say it contains a translation of an article in another language version, preferably in your first edit comment. You'll see I've now taken care of this and also included a translation template on the talk page. I've added the image from commons - you just need to copy the file name and add |thumb|description (see also my edit). You seem to have done a good job with the translation.--Ipigott (talk) 10:25, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh thank you! Lovely to see her photo there! Great. Balance person (talk) 10:36, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi,, and thanks for your interest in translating articles from a foreign language Wikipedia into English Wikipedia. I do a lot of these so wanted to share this link with you, Help:Translation, in the hope that it's helpful, though Ian has done a great job of explaining things already. --Rosiestep (talk) 10:47, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks,, for taking an interest. While you're here you might be able to help further. From this list, I found a link to her biography at Oxford African American Studies Center. Perhaps you can log in with your library card and check it out. I tried in vain to find it on the Wikipedia Library. It certainly seems to indicate that she was in fact elected mayor in 1955.--Ipigott (talk) 11:09, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I'm short of time at the moment as I'm preparing for international travel again, along with slidedecks but I can do so later in November. --Rosiestep (talk) 12:44, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Rosiestep Thanks for the translation link. That is most helpful and I will certainly refer to it next time I find a page in a different language. Yes, Ipigott helps me out a lot and is my total hero! Thanks for your help too.
 * Balance person (talk) 11:50, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * My pleasure, . There's a real joy in working together around here. No one knows everything so it helps to feel that connection. Glad to make your acquaintance! --Rosiestep (talk) 12:44, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Several sources say she was in fact elected mayor - so I've made the change. The item I mentioned to Rosie should have been accessible through the Wikipedia Library, but wasn't. If Rosie can turn up the full biography it would be better than some of the sources we have at the moment.--Ipigott (talk) 11:58, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, absolutely that would be excellent! By the way, I notice Rosiestep calls you Ian and you call her Rosie. Is it okay to refer to people other than the nickname they have given themselves? What is the wiki-quette? Is it like 'Tu' in French where you kind of wait for someone to suggest it? And also I notice that links are often made to a page I have just done. Do these happen automatically or do you do them for the page once I have done what I can? I know how to prevent a page being an orphan but wonder how the wikidata and other links get made. No hurry...just curious.  Balance person (talk) 12:07, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Although we've never met in person, Rosie and I have edited together for years. As neither of us makes a secret of our real names, it's quite natural for us to use first names. On Wikipedia, you always have to be careful not to use the real names of editors who prefer to remain anonymous, like you, I suppose! You can certainly call me Ian too, if you like. As for links to your pages, these may result from editors looking at your recent contributions or they may be "watching" the articles you have created. Tags like orphan are usually added by new article reviewers who check out the articles which have recently been added. The Wikidata links are often added if an article has equivalents in other language versions. There's a prompt at the bottom of the LH margin. If a Wikidata entry does not already exist, for biographies it can be created using the WEF:Person link. Now that you are creating more and more articles yourself, you could perhaps begin to make some of these additions yourself.--Ipigott (talk) 12:27, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your clear reply. I understand now! Balance person (talk) 13:07, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Duplication between wife and husband
The given case is Elizabeth, Lady Thurles and her husband Thomas Butler, Viscount Thurles. The duplicated information in question is the list of their children. I simply copied the information over from the husband to the wife's article. I wonder whether I should delete it from the husband's article and replace it there with a wikilink. Looking at FAs as examples, Queen Victoria and Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha as well as George II of Great Britain and his wife Caroline of Ansbach repeat the same section "Issue" containing a table of children. In the case of John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough and Sarah Churchill, Duchess of Marlborough, he has a simple list of children in a sentence, whereas she has a table. There is no link. In a similar case (duplication between parent and child) User:Mike Christie proposed in the (failed) GA review of Antoine Hamilton that the link on the child's side pointing to the father's article should go into a footnote and not appear in the text, and that this footnote should read "See Sir George Hamilton, 1st Baronet, of Donalong for a list of Anthony's siblings." or even just "See Sir George Hamilton, 1st Baronet, of Donalong". I wondered what authors specialising in articles on women have come up with. Thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 18:52, 26 October 2023 (UTC


 * Thanks for bringing this up here, . I don't see any pressing problems but you might like to bring the matter up on the talk pages of the articles in question. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties.--Ipigott (talk) 19:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Multimal (13:21, 29 October 2023)
How do you get articles while editing the article you chose --Multimal (talk) 13:21, 29 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. I see you are running into problems with the additions you have made to your user page. I suggest you delete them, tell is where you come from and why you are interested in editing on Wikipedia. You will find some guidance on how to edit on the welcome message on your talk page. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 16:07, 29 October 2023 (UTC)--Ipigott (talk) 16:07, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of New Zealand women writers


The article List of New Zealand women writers has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "Looking at the gender diversity for the List of New Zealand writers article using this tool, it says that 70% of the articles listed on that article are women. Wouldn't that make this List of New Zealand women writers redundant?"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. — Panamitsu (talk) 03:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you,, for deprodding and adding names to List of New Zealand women writers. The reason there are so many women's names on List of New Zealand writers is probably that Category:New Zealand women writers is a non-diffusing subcategory, which means that all the women covered also need to be added to Category:New Zealand writers and its subcategories. Our interest in writing articles about NZ women writers is encouraged by WikiProject Women writers, events under WikiProject Women in Red and of course the many meetups organized in New Zealand such as the recent Auckland meeting on women architects.
 * I think you will find that lists of writers for many other countries also contain a large proportion of women for similar reasons. I see you are a keen contributor of articles about New Zealand as well as a supporter of Women in Red. If you come across any other problems with lists of women, perhaps you could bring them to my attention or post a message on the Women in Red talk page. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 07:14, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Babirye Anna Grace on Whistleblowing (07:04, 30 October 2023)
Title:Whistleblowing Hi. How is whistle blowing carried out in different parts of hlthe world --Babirye Anna Grace (talk) 07:04, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. Under the welcome message on your talk page, you'll find a number of links providing guidance about Wikipedia and how to begin editing. As for Whistleblowing, you'll find some explanations in the article. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 07:20, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

CopyVio checks during NPP
Hi, Ipigott! During an NPP re-review, I saw that one of the pages you marked as reviewed had subsequently been deleted for unambiguous copyright infringement (Jeannie Deva). You marked the page as reviewed on October 17 at 02:44 and added an orphan tag. It was deleted five hours later for G12. Sometimes, I forget to do all the checks before making a hasty decision (as Liz has told me), but try to remember to check for copyvio before marking for review in the future. :) Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 00:30, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you,, for bringing this to my attention. As the article Jeannie Deva was not a BLP (she died in 2016) and was well sourced, I did not consider it a problem but can now see some of the text was lifted virtually unchanged from here and from a further source from the same site in connection with an addition on 16 October. I'm glad to see that other editors quickly detected there were copyvio problems. It's a pity the matter was not brought to my attention at the time, in which case I would have tried to sort things out. I look through quite a number of new (and older) articles about women every day and believe that most of my reviews are correct. As there are bots for copyvio, it would help if potential candidates, for example biographies by new contributors, could be checked automatically with a warning on the new pages for review page. Recent contributors are often unaware of the constraints and their articles can often be "saved" if the text is reworded. I'll try to keep my eyes more widely open for copy violations in future but in nearly all the cases I check with Earwig's Copyvio Detector, I am told that there are no serious copy violations, even when over 30% of the content bears close connections with one of the main sources. It looks to me as if Jeannie Deva certainly deserves to be covered on Wikipedia. Maybe one of our keen Australian contributors can recreate the biography.--Ipigott (talk) 07:22, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I absolutely agree that Jeannie Deva should have her own article! Would you be interested in starting one or at least starting the draft so other editors can contribute to it? Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 13:04, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * As I have a copy of the deleted article, I may not be the best person to recreate it. Let's leave it for a day or two and see if any Australian page watchers pick it up. If not, I'll recreate the article myself although I usually leave articles about English speakers to our huge force of English-speaking editors.--Ipigott (talk) 14:46, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * On further checking, I see that she was in fact American and not Australian. She was born in New York and died in Hollywood. On re-examining the sources, I'm not certain she was notable enough for a biography. Maybe an item on Wikidata?--Ipigott (talk) 15:05, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

November music
Hevenu shalom aleichem is my story today. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your interesting article on Hevenu shalom aleichem. With just these three words and a simple melody, it must be easy to learn.--Ipigott (talk) 06:36, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The article was by three users (see my talk), the music can be heard in the article. The melody is simple but has a rather wide range. Full of life here. - I added some images from Aachen, taken 21 Oct. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I proudly remember having sung in an oratorio premiere seven years ago OTD. And I brought a woman to the Main page within minutes after nominating, - a pleasant surprise. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:42, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * More, if you like: today I have three items on the Main page, almost too much of a good thing! Bach's amazing cantata with the unusual scale, first performed 300 years ago OTD, still the nun for the prostitutes, and Schumann's wedding gift for Clara. Also first day of vacation pics uploaded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:24, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Today is St. Martin's Day, which stands for sharing. Sharing one more day of vacation ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:10, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The new church is rather too austere for my liking but probably serves well as a concert hall. As you might know, Sankt Morten is well known in Denmark. On the evening of the 10th, Mortensaften, the tradition to eat goose (now generally substituted by duck) is widely followed. Apparently in Germany and Austria, some families still enjoy Martinsgans, usually on the 11th rather than the 10th.--Ipigott (talk) 07:26, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I love the austerity of the church, and yes, all seats are equally good for listening. - The official Catholic Saint's Day is 11, but the evening before sort of belongs to it (as for Christmas), and Martin Luther's parents will have had that in mind. - The geese I pictured the other day are still alive (and very noisy), probably being fattened for Christmas. - I began another day of vacation pics, with the deepest blue of the sea ;) - we celebrate the birthday of a friend who wrote quite a book about the compositions of a man who will turn 300 soon. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:22, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Next day of pics - today my topic is a soprano. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Vacation pictures offered if you click on songs, and my story today is a DYK hook from 13 years ago OTD: about the great music at one of my churches. Mozart's Requiem to come on Sunday, coupled with Arvo Pärt's Da pacem Domine, - I guess you might come if it was a bit closer. Perhaps watch the video of our last production, our first on yt, ever. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:20, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the invitation but as you say it is rather a long way.--Ipigott (talk) 06:08, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for saying that! - My story today, Canticle I: My beloved is mine and I am his, - the composer, born OTD 110 years ago, didn't want it shorter (but the publisher), more here. I'm back to a good tradition: a Britten composition on his birthday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:44, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What a story! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * User Talk:Gerda Arendt --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:55, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Today: in memoriam Jerome Kohl who said (In Freundschaft): "and I hope that they have met again in the beyond and are making joyous music together" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Justyouraveragewikieditor (09:27, 12 November 2023)
Hi there!

I was wondering if there was a way to retroactively add my account to an edit I made before I made an account? Is there any way to claim an edit after I've published my changes to a page?

Thanks! --Justyouraveragewikieditor (talk) 09:27, 12 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. As far as I know, there's no way of incorporating the edits you made before you registered but we now look forward to many more. You'll see that in my welcome message on your talk page, there are a number of links to sites which offer useful guidance about how to edit on Wikipedia. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 10:07, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Justyouraveragewikieditor (Having seen your enquiry at the Teahouse) If no-one else has edited the article since you did, perhaps you could revert the edit, explaining why in an edit summary@, and then redo it under your newly-registered name. But not if anyone else has edited the article since then. And only if you have no concerns about the IP address being linked to your new identity. Pam  D  10:26, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to see you were able to sort things out on the basis of this suggestion. Please let me know if you run into any other difficulties.--Ipigott (talk) 08:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Umi Sardjono
Okay, finally done. If you could give it a copyedit, that would be wonderful. SusunW (talk) 18:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Roger.--Ipigott (talk) 18:29, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I very much appreciate your help. Hers was in many ways a tragic life, but one I felt compelled to write. SusunW (talk) 14:33, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Not quite finished yet. I intend to look through it once more either today or tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 14:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I've now had time to go through it once more. Please let me know if you need any further help with it.--Ipigott (talk) 07:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. I truly appreciate the help. I'll wrap her up and then get back to Popova, who is also a fascinating story. SusunW (talk) 14:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Sandvich Mann (03:49, 16 November 2023)
Greetings. Have good day and eat plenty of sandvich. --Sandvich Mann (talk) 03:49, 16 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. In my message on your talk page, you'll find links to sites which offer useful guidance on how to start editing. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 06:11, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you, . I seem to be in good company. My primary interest is to see that deserving articles about women receive approval, not only while I am reviewing new pages but when I come across them in connection with assessment, user creations, women's sports, etc. As a result, I am often able to encourage their creators to become members of WikiProject Women in Red. I see that you are taking the project seriously as you continue to write interesting articles about women, most recently Angelina Muniz, Renjusha Menon and Adele Fátima. The icon on your user page tells me you have now made 63 women blue. Great stuff!--Ipigott (talk) 10:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hoping to create more. Cheers :) Thilsebatti (talk) 10:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Chiqui Vicioso
Hello again! Bit of a challenge this one. I have tried to do a page on C Vicioso and with huge help from SusunW was able to get to a page in the Oxford Dic of C and AL biographies. But whether I have dealt correctly with the Spanish...? hmmm...I am not sure. Would you at some point have a look at the draft and see what you think? I have at least cited the translation from the other pages this time!! Trying to learn! Thanks, if you can. Balance person (talk) 13:57, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . Yes, I read with interest your long exchange with Susun. Rather busy at the moment but I'll look more carefully at this later today or tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 14:01, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Chiqui Vicioso is now in mainspace. Given all the times she has been mentioned in other articles, she's obviously pretty prominent. We're getting to the point where you could create articles in mainspace yourself but just let me know if you think I can help you along.--Ipigott (talk) 08:05, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you as ever User:Ipigott (ah I have just learned how to 'ping'!) TBH I feel safer if I consult you first as I am still no good at doing categories and such. But I will try to get more independent as I go along! Thank you again for your time and care. Balance person (talk) 08:28, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Nina Popova (official)
Her life absolutely brings clarity to the issues about evaluating socialist activists as women's rights activists. Talavar (the main scholar I used) does a really good job of explaining how complicated it was to work in a state-funded and controlled organization, but still focus on women. Clearly Popova had the skill to walk those lines. I've asked George to help me with photos and if you have time or interest, I'd appreciate you giving her a copyedit. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 22:10, 20 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Not an easy article to digest. I had difficulty in understanding "They argued that war and economic control by colonial powers impeded laborers from gaining full citizenship because government desire to enact reforms hinged upon land and economic policy change which upper- and business-class people opposed." Perhaps you could spell it out a little more clearly. I cannot see this reflected in the WIDF article.--Ipigott (talk) 10:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Basically wealthy people and business owners put pressure on governments to impede legislation that would give workers rights as full citizens. Is that clearer? Thanks for your help. I genuinely appreciate it. SusunW (talk) 14:30, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's clearer. I found the term "citizenship" rather strange in this context. But is it indeed the case that governments were keen to bring about reforms to land and economic policy? I rather doubt it. Perhaps it would be better to say something like: "They argued that pressure from the business community did not allow the colonial powers to introduce initiatives liable to improve the rights of workers (or working-class people." -- unless that is not reflected in your source.--Ipigott (talk) 14:53, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll go back and re-read the source, but yes, that's the idea. Purposeful underdevelopment so that pockets could be lined. IMO business and government are never likely to voluntarily pass legislation that benefits the masses. They do it only when pressured by riots, pandemics, economic/environmental disaster... Malthus wasn't wrong, people are in general greedy and don't want to give up their own power unless forced to do so. SusunW (talk) 15:02, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I've made the change anyway, . It's much clearer and is basically a paraphrase. Thanks for going back over my edits and sorting out one or two problems, especially my mistake of "he" rather than "she".--Ipigott (talk) 06:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * We make a good team. I appreciate your help always. 13:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC) SusunW (talk) 13:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I've just completed a short piece on Veneranda Manzano and was thinking of writing about Russian-born Eva Priester but I see from her Jstor coverage that there's also lots to be said about her achievements as a poet. There's also a short biografiA account and an even shorter one under Geschichte Wien. Maybe you are planning to cover her yourself or perhaps you are more interested in some of the other WIDF women or their organizations?--Ipigott (talk) 15:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was thinking of working on Liu Qingyang, but asked for help from Justiyaya. You are much better at poets than I, so please do Priester. Perhaps I'll take a shot at some of the African women. SusunW (talk) 16:34, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll make a start on Priester tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 18:28, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Africans are hard! Ordered some sources on Lucette Mazzella, who as it turns out is French, but was raised in Algeria/Morocco. Found very little from here on most of the others, but finally found enough sourcing and am working on Abassia Fodil. SusunW (talk) 14:33, 23 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I've covered Eva Priester and now intend to start on Isie Smuts. Let me know when you want me to look at Abassia Fodil.--Ipigott (talk) 12:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Very cool. Smuts looked to be an interesting one. Slow going, but I am scraping everything I can find. It's clear to me that there are a lot of blanks in her life, but hopefully more info will eventually surface. I got the article I ordered on Mazzella too. All in French, ugh, but will give it a go. SusunW (talk) 13:28, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Think I have done all I can with Fodil at this point. Happy to have you look it over. SusunW (talk) 17:30, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Justaquack (09:19, 24 November 2023)
How to add pics? --Justaquack (talk) 09:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. On your talk page, you'll find links to guidance on how to edit. As for pics, you can add photographs you have taken yourself but you should not copy those you find on websites as most of them are protected by copyright. You'll find more explanations on Images. Please let me know if you need further assistance. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 09:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Copyright issue
Apart from the verifiability issues and incorrect claims at the Isie Smuts article, please also take care not to violate WP:COPYVIO rules. If the copyrighted source says "played a leading role in the Women’s United Party, and in 1940 founded the Gifts and Comforts Fund for soldiers during the Second World War." then it is best that our article doesn't say "played a leading role in the Women's United Party and in 1940 founded the Gifts and Comforts Fund in favour of the troops during the Second World War." Fram (talk) 15:56, 24 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks,, for pointing this out and for your interest in the article. As explained on your talk page, I've reworded this. As a result Earwig has dropped to 2.9 from the earlier 5.9. I've also added the correct source for her WIDF involvement. It's always good to have other contributors coming along with such positive suggestions. I don't actually think any of the claims are incorrect. Things will become clearer as I expand the article.--Ipigott (talk) 17:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I see you have again edited the article and re-added citation templates with the comment "Replacing it with another source that doesn't mention Smuts is getting rather tiring, and adding "anti-apartheid" without a source isn't much better (the source which does mention apartheid does so for her husband, nothing is said about her opinion or activities around this".
 * Maybe you are right that "anti-apartheid" which I added as a result of her involvement in Federation of South African Women is premature and could be removed from the lead but what is far more important is that the article behind this is the one specifically cited in connection with Isie Smuts in Women's International Democratic Federation. It was as a result of the redlink resulting from this that I embarked on the article in the first place. I have been working with and others for the past couple of weeks on trying to improve background on many of the women associated with the WIDF. If you find this source unacceptable, then there is no point in my continuing further work on this article.--Ipigott (talk) 17:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Once again, she is not involved with the Federation of South African Women, she is involved with the Suid-Afrikaanse Vrouefederasie (South African Women's Federation), a completely different organisation. I think that there is indeed no point in your continued addition of wrong information and of sources which don't mention the subject or don't support your claims. It doesn't matter one bit if the source you added to the Isie Smuts article is the same as the one used in another article: it is your responsability in the Smuts article to make sure that the source you add actually references the information you added. I'm rather mortified that I have to explain such things and check such edits from an autopatrolled editor (and new page reviewer and pending changes reviewer) with 200,000+ edits and nearly 3000 articles created. I hope (but have more and more trouble believing) that this is just a very bad day and your normal editing actually adheres to those basic standards of sourcing and fact checking. Fram (talk) 18:03, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I was probably just taken aback by your stepping in here,, shortly after I had started to work on the article. I now see that other mishaps occurred as I tried to sort things out in the short space of time available to me yesterday. I do of course always welcome constructive comments and I am sure that we are both on the same page, striving not only to improve this article and but to make Wikipedia a reliable encyclopaedia. We all unintentionally make mistakes from time to time but as a result of the collaboration we enjoy here, we are usually able to sort things out -- perhaps not in a matter of minutes but as we look into things more closely. Bearing you comments in mind (and thank you for noting my achievements), over the next day or two I'll try to produce an article reflecting the "basic standards of sourcing and fact checking" which we all try to adopt. I also see that SusunW has contributed a useful source which should help things along.--Ipigott (talk) 06:44, 25 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I have an appointment in a few minutes, but will check back on this, Ian. I did find that this available from the wikipedia library has a detailed bio for her. SusunW (talk) 18:04, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, well I am winnowing it down. Mostly have it written, but will have to be "Britishised". Don't have anything in there yet about her relationship with Olive Schreiner, the Greek royal refugees, the British royal's visit, her reaction to her husbands many female friends, nor what the heck happened to all of those scrapbooks. Surely their papers are donated somewhere. Also need to put in the bit about the house now being a museum. There are some photos we could add (see talk page and note that George is on vacation). The first publishing of the photo of Smuts and Jan with Santa seems to have occurred in 1962, (the other version I found was published in 1986), which means that while it went into public domain in South Africa in 2012 (50 years) it won't be in the public domain in the US until 2057. Photos published in South Africa before 1946 could be used, as that would comply with the URAA date of 1996. SusunW (talk) 23:50, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your efforts with this, Susun. If there's a problem with the photo, then it will be best to remove it. You've been doing a far more thorough job than I could ever have done. I'm sorry you were landed with the job of working on it in mainspace. I've decided to return to work on my Scandinavians rather than working on any more WIDF redlinks. I've just starting working on Britta Holmström who needs to be covered in some detail. --Ipigott (talk) 06:56, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries Ian. 21:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC) SusunW (talk) 21:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red December 2023
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 * I'm afraid I couldn't find any indication on their user pages that any of these are women although one expresses an interest in feminism. Please correct me if I am wrong.--Ipigott (talk) 07:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Futurebentley (02:40, 30 November 2023)
Do you have any strategies for finding pages that have good potential for editing? I’m not having a ton of luck with the articles that are being automatically suggested to me. Thanks! --Futurebentley (talk) 02:40, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there,, and welcome to Wikipedia. I suggest you start by creating your user page where you could tell us something about your interests and why you want to contribute to Wikipedia. On that basis, I might be able to suggest articles which you might interest you. Until you have gained further experience, I don't think you should make further edits on Henry Kissinger which is undergoing extensive revision. Removing passages like "A 2015 survey of top international relations scholars, conducted by College of William & Mary, ranked Kissinger as the most effective U.S. secretary of state in the 50 years to 2015." is not helpful. On the other hand, I see your "turning a blond eye" has survived as "turning a blind eye". Happy editing.--Ipigott (talk) 07:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)