User:Jaakobou/War Criminal Insinuations

War crime charges by PalestineRemembered
The following are statements made by PalestineRemembered which insinuate that I'm a war criminal.


 * Summary
 * Full
 * Comment

Summary of the charges PR
"User:Jaakobou... During the period of this action... If you were less than 4 miles away from it, did you handle a weapon... If you'd told us earlier of your involvement, there'd still be a danger of CoI, but your editing behaviour would be more understandable."

"...reference to the intention of the troops... - were you one of them?"

"... did you take part in operations... are there circumstances under which you could be charged with war-crimes and arraigned before the ICC at the Hague? Please consider your options carefully before providing a reply. If there are circumstances under which you might seek asylum in a civilised nation"


 * See also: Comments

Full quote PR
"User:Jaakobou, there is a question I need to ask you. During the period of this action (April 2002) were you more than 4, more than 40, more than 400 or more than 4000 miles away from Jenin? If you were less than 4 miles away from it, did you handle a weapon or otherwise take any part in the Battle of Jenin? If you cannot (or refuse) to answer this question, then I think you should recuse yourself from editing this article, because of the grave danger of Conflict of Interest. If you'd told us earlier of your involvement, there'd still be a danger of CoI, but your editing behaviour would be more understandable."

"this article is not complete without some passing reference to the intention of the troops. Of which you've still not answered the question - were you one of them?"

"It would appear it was time you answered the question - did you take part in operations described in articles in this encyclopedia, and are there circumstances under which you could be charged with war-crimes and arraigned before the ICC at the Hague? Please consider your options carefully before providing a reply. If there are circumstances under which you might seek asylum in a civilised nation (or indeed, in a western nation), then you might care to consider your response especially carefully. Please note, these questions were originally presented in the context of a Conflict of Interest, and you've not replied to the original question. However, you are welcome to do so now."


 * Comment

Extra comment PR

 * Comments:


 * 1) By no means did I make anything to remotely solicit such questions.
 * 2) The question (6 Aug.) was not only extremely loaded considering the POV of PalestineRemembered that Israelis massacred Palestinians, but it was also repeated twice (10+11 Aug.) after I've opened an AN/I to the issue.
 * 3) User:Eleland, apparently trying to diffuse the trouble his friend got himself into, added some insults and repeated the question.

War crime charges by Eleland
The following are statements made by Eleland which insinuate that I'm a war criminal.


 * Summary
 * Full
 * Comment

Summary of the charges El
"I find your need to see yourself as a helpless victim, unjustifiably targeted by hostile forces, regardless of how destructive your actions are, to be fascinating: you seem to mirror personally the attitude that your state takes internationally ... Were you a participant in the event?"

"''What do you think a self-described Hezbollah member would face when editing Wikipedia? ... And yet an IDF member ... about his involvement in the very battle which he is now rewriting the history"


 * -- (See also: Comments)

Full quote El
"''Yes, yes, I have noticed that you like to complain about incivility instead of addressing substantive issues. I find your need to see yourself as a helpless victim, unjustifiably targeted by hostile forces, regardless of how destructive your actions are, to be fascinating: you seem to mirror personally the attitude that your state takes internationally. If you remove material with no justification, or with no more than a passing reference to some TV show you saw on Israel's equivalent of the Discovery Channel, you'll face this type of response. It is extraordinary frustrating to deal with you. Even when you're completely off base, it takes reversions and multiple postings on talk before you — sometimes — accept it. Two cases in point would be your insertion of the term "Big Jenin Lie" in boldface to the lede, and your original research claims of accusations of "genocide" when that term only appeared once in all of the sources you provided. I'll try not to question your motives in future, because ultimately, it isn't helpful.

Now, on a related matter: Do you have a potential conflict of interest related to the Battle of Jenin? Were you a participant in the event? Although you have devoted much bandwidth to decrying this question, you have not answered it, which would be the most sensible way to deal with the issue.''"

"''Apparently I'm the "other editor"; I never would have dreamed of asking the question, except that Jaakobou's response when PR asked it was so suspiciously combative. PR, I don't believe you deserved to be blocked. On the other hand, note that I've asked the question without resorting to hyperbole and don't appear to be in any danger of being blocked, so it would appear that in some sense you did bring it upon yourself.

Here's a provocative, but important, question. What do you think a self-described Hezbollah member would face when editing Wikipedia? I suspect it would be a major uphill battle to avoid a community ban by default, regardless of how polite and moderate the guy was. And yet an IDF member who won't answer specific questions about his involvement in the very battle which he is now rewriting the history of not only gets a free pass, he gets people blocked by whining to AN/I. I almost wish I wrote Arabic well enough to pull of the impersonation, just for the hell of it.''"

Extra comment El

 * Comments:


 * 1) By no means did I make anything to remotely solicit such questions.
 * 2) User:Eleland, apparently trying to diffuse the trouble his friend got himself into, added some insults and repeated the question after I've opened an AN/I to the issue.