User:Jguy/VisualEditor

As one editor said, to VE or not to VE, that is the question.

My original thoughts on the VE might have been a bit rushed. I've kept them below, but want to cross post a couple of my comments on the matter over to this page.

Perhaps my browser was having an episode, as the site works correctly this AM (it was previously completely unbrowsable due to the amount of Javascript, e.g. would not load). My opinion still stands. While you might think the VE is the next big thing I do not support it being forced onto people and enabled in their preferences automatically. While it might not be broken and might include all the features to make editing easier, its quite apparent that most editors do not like it because they're used to what they know. This obviously is the exact opposite of 'easy' to them. This action by the WMF is almost like them playing 'big brother' and forcing things and ideals on people. What happened to concensus on this? Was it decided in a RfC that all editors will have it enabled by default come July 1st? I can't wait until it gets enabled on other language wiki's. We're going to have a very bad storm on our hands before too long. Jguy TalkDone 13:15, 2 July 2013 (UTC) From: Village_pump_(technical) - This could have been handled better. Way better. Yes, you want testers, beta periods are nice. But never in my 10+ years of software/hardware/product development and support have I ever forced a beta version to everyone and told people to just "deal with it". You release the beta to a handful of people, especially with something that is breaking content left and right. This does not improve Wikipedia. This does not help Wikipedia. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for a new editor! Bring it on! It sounds great! I'd love a new way to edit pages. But to force a clearly broken editor onto people is wrong. If it was working better and didn't include over 300 bugs then people might have been a little more excited about it, and a bit more accepting of the change. But as it is, you have crippled what we're here to do. It may recover, but the trust is honestly lost here. Kumioko is right here, this is great, but it's a long way away from a site-wide release. Jguy TalkDone 20:12, 2 July 2013 (UTC) From: Wikipedia_talk:VisualEditor - I would call it crippled. I see many many many talented editors that have been here far longer than I have just up and leave. While it might not be forced on us right now, for a short time it was. Only until people complained and started quitting did the WMF finally add an option to hide the editor from the interface (if I recall, it was at least 2-3 hours after the switch was pulled). I don't really think people have a problem with the VisualEditor itself (besides the bugs), I think the problem is the way it was presented and then implemented (at least that's what I have a problem with). A lot of editors stated that they did not see any notices about it, including me, and it was later confirmed that a cookie issue might have been to blame. I understand that technical issues/changes from the WMF don't have to have consensus, but in this case, that rule should have been ignored as it directly disrupts the improvement of the encyclopedia (the editor having 300+ bugs is pretty related to the improvement of the encyclopedia). While the disruption might not be long term, there is (still) no clear indication anywhere of how to hide the VE for those that can't or don't want to use it. People still have issues hiding it or finding where to hide it. Also keep in mind that it only hides the button. All the code, javascript and backend stuff is still loaded, so the interface slows down even more. I understand that it will get better. With the amount of feedback that WMF is getting it's a given. I, as well as seemingly countless other editors, feel that it would have been best to wait for a massive rollout such as this, given the amount of criticism that the WMF has been taking. Jguy TalkDone 23:24, 2 July 2013 (UTC) From: Wikipedia_talk:VisualEditor -

I have definitely hid the VE from my Preferences, but really wish there was a button to disable it completely. Make it opt-out. Please! Jguy TalkDone 23:37, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * New thoughts Jguy TalkDone: I've been largely inactive following the chaos that was the Visual Editor release back in July. I put my opinions in the RfC and noticed that nothing really changed. I am now declaring that I am on a semi-permanent wiki-break from Mainspace (I may stop by if I have nothing else to do and do a few maintenance things), but don't expect it. This place is no longer worth my time. Jguy TalkDone 16:43, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia has always been about concensus. Do you have the proper support, backed by site policies and procedures to do what you want to do? I cannot find any discussion or RfC that supports turning on VisualEditor site wide for all logged in users. Yes, it was announced, but was it discussed? Not as far as I can see.

It's not necessarily about "it's buggy", or "it's slow", or "it's not finished and I can't add references". I'm in support of a new editing interface. I really am. It sounds like a novel idea and one I'm fully in support of. What I don't support, however, is how this was handled.


 * It was assumed that everyone knew that VE was being turned on for all logged in editors come July 1st. I frequent the backend areas of WP quite frequently and had no idea. There was no watchlist notification for me, no "site wide banner", nothing.
 * There was no discussion or concensus about turning it on for all editors come July 1st. I for one, would not have supported it, and I know a large handful of people who wouldn't have either.
 * The WMF claims that 'it's still in Beta'. Isn't the goal of Beta to gather opinions from people that wish to be a part of it and give constructive critcism? You turn on 'beta' for 500,000 people and only 3,000 give you results. That isn't very productive.

In my opinion, this is the WMF playing 'big brother'. Pushing their thoughts down the throats of experienced editors. Nevermind the fact that I've seen multiple people say "you'll get use it to it", or, worse, straight up "get used to it". Sorry, no.

Not to mention the current buggy state of the editor, which is breaking content left and right. Why enable it for all editors if it's so broken? If I would take a look at these and see this type of behaviour with a piece of software it would be instantly disabled and fixed immediately.

So, in the interim, I am electing to stay out of mainspace until such a time where the VisualEditor is disabled for all editors and an 'opt-in' perference is added for those who like the old source editor. This also means no AfD work, no AfC work, nothing that involves anything outside of the WP and User namespaces. We're trying to cater to new editors, but what about the ones who have been here for many many years and have many hours of thankless contributions under their belt, who got this change forced onto them?

Jguy TalkDone 15:23, 2 July 2013 (UTC)