User:Jnestorius/Vocational Panels

Historical list of bodies registered for the nominating bodies subpanel of the Vocational Panels electing senators to Seanad Éireann.

Constitution

 * SEANAD ÉIREANN:
 * ARTICLE 18:
 * 4 1° The elected members of Seanad Éireann shall be elected as follows:—
 * iii Forty-three shall be elected from panels of candidates constituted as hereinafter provided.
 * 5 Every election of the elected members of Seanad Éireann shall be held on the system of proportional representation by means of the single transferable vote, and by secret postal ballot.
 * 7 1° Before each general election of the members of Seanad Éireann to be elected from panels of candidates, five panels of candidates shall be formed in the manner provided by law containing respectively the names of persons having knowledge and practical experience of the following interests and services, namely:–
 * i National Language and Culture, Literature, Art, Education and such professional interests as may be defined by law for the purpose of this panel;
 * ii Agriculture and allied interests, and Fisheries;
 * iii Labour, whether organised or unorganised;
 * iv Industry and Commerce, including banking, finance, accountancy, engineering and architecture;
 * v Public Administration and social services, including voluntary social activities.
 * 2° Not more than eleven and, subject to the provisions of Article 19 hereof, not less than five members of Seanad Éireann shall be elected from any one panel.
 * 10 1° Subject to the foregoing provisions of this Article elections of the elected members of Seanad Éireann shall be regulated by law.

Oireachtas

 * 7 Oct 1937:
 * Dev : The Constitution prescribes that not more than 11 and not less than five members are to be selected from each of the panels. The first explanation that should be given is that the number for the educational panel is put at five, because we consider the six that will be chosen from the universities would be largely from a class belonging to that panel. There is no necessity, I think, to justify giving 11 to the greatest industry in the country. That is the greatest number and it is given to the agricultural industry. Labour is given the same number, meaning rural labour, agricultural labour and, of course, industrial labour. These would get representation—perhaps I should not use the word representation, because the whole idea is not a representative one—so as to get from the various organisations of our industrial life people who will have a special knowledge of that particular branch of the economic life of the country. When we think that on that panel we would have both rural, agricultural and industrial labour, there is no need to justify giving Labour that number. With regard to the other industries, it might be said that, with the development of our manufacturing industries, we ought now to get as large a section from that as from agriculture. I do not think the time has yet come when that could be said. At any rate, with the numbers at our disposal we consider that nine would be sufficient to get from it representatives of our manufacturing industry, sufficient to get men and women who would have a through knowledge of that section of our economic life.
 * Finally, we have the administrative panel on which it is suggested there should be seven. That, we think, would be sufficient to enable us to avail of the services of persons who had experience in public administration; of those who had experience by being members of some Government, of those who had experience, say, as chairmen of county councils and, if it was considered advisable, retired members of the Civil Service who had an exceptional opportunity of studying and knowing the details of public administration. As regards the numbers, from what I have said I think I have made it clear that we are not tied to any of these numbers.

The bill as introduced was only a discussion point, with Dev amenable to significant opposition amendment. The 1936 Second House report had about 3 different models; Dev generally favouring the minority view. The opposition parties each had slates of amendments tabled at committee stage which practically replaced the entire draft bill with one of the other 1936 models.
 * Right to nominate: "What substitute can we find, in other words, for the representative functional bodies that we certainly in the Government would give power to elect directly to the Seanad if they existed"; Dáil vs "nominating bodies"; compromise both, with quota for each ["if you allow a small number of Dáil members to nominate and put members upon the panel, you will practically be excluding the possibility of the outside bodies' nominees getting elected at all"]
 * Electorate: "There were two proposals. One was the Dáil itself, and the other was the proposal made by the Seanad Commission, that the electorate should consist of the candidates at the general election for the Dáil immediately preceding, it being understood that the number of votes each candidate would have would be in proportion to the number of first preferences he got. The actual proposal in the Bill is that a person who got over 500 first preference votes should have a vote; that he should have one vote for every 1,000 first preferences cast for him, a fraction of 1,000 over 500 being regarded as 1,000, and 500 or under being neglected"

History of process
Since some of this is shared with Oireachtas sub-panel, better to do in Vocation Panels page rather than (List of) nominating bodies page.

For many years, Oireachtas easier than Nom Bod, hence "inside" and "outside" nicknames.


 * Nominations:
 * 1937-54
 * Max number of nominating bodies, and max number of candidates nominated by them
 * each nominating body nominates max 1 or 2 to shortlist.
 * "nominating panel" -- each nominating body elects five to the panel annually by STV; panel elects candidates to ballot from shortlist by STV
 * Taoiseach can nominate extra to make up numbers if below minimum (?still the case? is the minimum now lower, ie maybe previously it had to be, say, double the minimum number elected, whereas now could be the same as minimum number elected)
 * 1954:no nominating panel; each nominating body can nominate directly onto ballot.


 * General elections:
 * 1937-47: Each council nominates 5 (or 7?) (by STV?) to electorate; vote on single STV ballot with single quota but 5 panels and 10 subpanels with minimum and maximum number to be elected
 * 1947-54: ?Maybe electorate is same but separate ballot per panel? Or maybe all reform was in 1947, none in 1954.
 * 1954: All councillors vote by STV


 * By-elections:
 * 1937-47: nominating panel elects shortlist of 3 by STV; Taoiseach picks one.
 * 1947-54: nominating panel elects one by STV/AV
 * 1954: nominating bodies as for general election; Oireachtas votes by STV

In 1954 the Wholesale Grocers' Association canvassed other nominating bodies about "a meeting of representatives of all nominating bodies ... to appoint a representative deputation to call upon the responsible Minister to advocate election to the senate from the nominating bodies by direct vote". There was such a meeting in 1955, attended by 27 of the 42 bodies. Another meeting in 1958, by which time the Seanad Electoral Commission was in being; the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland wrote to the commission, suggesting the representative meeting did not replace the individual bodies in communication with the commission.

Registration as nominating body
1937 NUJ and InstJ both applied to be registered on Cult + Ed panel; Dept of Ed voiced objection to including journalism on panel; Dev and dept concerned both were UK-based. Substituted NUJ for InstJ in 1943 irishtimes 1943/0421/Pg003 already a ref

irishtimes 1943/0408/Pg001 revision appeal cttee of TDs to head InstJ appeal

Clerk's discretion on register has "been reduced considerably" [?by 1954 act?]

irishtimes 1951/0806/Pg007 Letter "The Senate Election" from T. J. O'Connell 11 reg bodies in C+E panel at 1951 gen election, explains nom cttee (51 of 55 eligible) lost out on quota

Hints

 * 12 June 1940 Seanad Éireann - Volume 24 - cc.1788–89 there are eight nominating bodies registered for the agricultural panel
 * 10 February 1954 Dáil Éireann debates - Volume 144 - c.69 Prior to 1947 the maximum number of bodies which could be registered in respect of a panel was 15. Since 1947 there has been no statutory limit but there has been no significant increase in the number of bodies registered in respect of the various panels. The largest number registered at the moment is 17 in respect of the industrial and commercial panel.

Table

 * Footnotes:


 * Queries:

Disallowed registrations
In 1938:
 * Dublin Cow-keepers' and Dairymen's Association (presumably Ag)
 * Irish Medical Union (probably C & E)
 * Irish Nurses Union (An Cumann Gaedheal Bhanaltra)
 * General Nursing Council (C & E)
 * ITUC appealed to exclude Cottage Tenants and Rural Workers Association
 * National Union of Journalists (Eire Executive) appealed its exclusion and the inclusion of the Dub & Ir Dist Ass, Inst of Journalists
 * Women's Social and Political League (whereupon it changed its name to Women's Social and Progressive League)

Later:
 * Association of Ophthalmic Opticians (C & E); appealed 1954
 * Federated Union of Employers (disallowed on Lab, then allowed on C & E);
 * Local Authorities Retired Officers and Service Association (Lab) too small; appealed 1954
 * Irish Bank Officials Association (Lab; already affiliated to ICPSA) Appealed 1954 rejection Apparently had been added in 1952?
 * In 2010, a private member's bill to allow the Local Authority Managers' Association to be on the Administration Panel was defeated.