User:Kober/Archive7

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 You can view the Kamani tragedy video here. Its in Georgian so i dont understand it, but as i know they are translating it. Many of the materials are available in Svetlanas book and evidence material collection (White Book of Abkhazia), also in US State Dep reports dated 1994. Ldingley 17:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * p.s those priests (father Ekvtime, Giorgi, etc) and people (locals) on the video are all dead. Ldingley 17:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Kober, i dont know who shot the video. Im currently working on Gali events, if you have something to add please go ahead [] Ldingley 18:53, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

C Праздником!
Kober, please see your email. Thanks. Ldingley 14:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Samtskhe-Javakheti question
E-mail me via Wikipedia. I'd like to know your opinion on this issue. -- Aivazovsky 02:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Georgia
Kober, great job the lead section for Georgia! Where have you been this long?

Only one remark. Although 40% of population is employed in agriculture, agriculture accounts only for 20% of Georgia's economy. Tamokk 06:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I am fine thanks :) no need of peaceniks. Although the only party I see here is Sosomk, who was violating wiki rules. Cheers! Tamokk 11:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, and unfortunately I am busy in real life too, I even gave up actively editing Georgian Wikipedia. Tamokk 11:32, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

No corrections needed Kober, its great. Ldingley 15:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Funny eh? unbelievable. Ldingley 15:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

If you have any additional info, please add Dmitry Sanakoyev. Thanks. Ldingley 19:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Kote Marjanishvili
Gmadlob. Happy Independence Day! - Alsandro · T · w:ka: Th · T 23:00, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Expurgation of Russian spellings
This is a very peculiar attitude which does not hold water. For more than a century, this was the official spelling of their name. I fail to see how it "does not belong to the lead". --Ghirla-трёп- 10:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Malkhaz Asatiani
Could you add his name in Georgian script? Alæxis¿question? 19:52, 31 May 2007 (UTC) Thx. Alæxis¿question? 07:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Darial Gorge also lacks Georgian name. Alæxis¿question? 08:15, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

from Soso
Kober, please vote talk:Georgia (country)SosoMK 10:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Dear Mr Kober, I was asked by Mr Dingley to join this web site and contribute information about Georgia and Abkhazia. Im York University student with Russian studies MA. Its nice to meet you. Taton80 16:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Ambrosius_of_georgia.jpg
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Article
Mr Kober Hi, its Patrick again. Can you please forward me the article about Stalins early years? I emailed you about the article a while ago. Thanks. Taton80 16:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

ABkhazia
Mr Kober Hello, wanted to draw your attention to this Russian text by Mr Marshania (ethnic Abkhaz historian and scholar of Abkhazia), its very interesting indeed. . Taton80 17:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Welcome Back
Hi Kober and Welcome Back. Geagea 22:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Kuropalates
Hi Kober

May be you know if the title "Kuropalates" is - Prince-elector ? Geagea 16:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Itske (Abram) Rizhinashvili
One more thing.

may be you have information about "Itske (Abram) Rizhinashvili". some of the streets in Georgia have his name. As far as I know Georgian jew revolutioner that died by shot of a cop when he was 20 yers old. Geagea 16:15, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Chosroid Dynasty
Hi Kober. You are off to such a great start on the article Chosroid Dynasty that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. Appearing on the Main Page would help bring publicity and assistance to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created and if you haven't already done so, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. If you do nominate the article for DYK, please cross out the article name on the "Good" articles proposed by bot list. Again, great job on the article. --  Jreferee  (Talk) 18:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Why do you constantly revert my economy section? I have added considerable information there. Tamokk 02:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Paravani lake
Please take a look at Paravani lake. Note the beautiful picture :) SosoMK 09:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Kober, imatma ar misces xma im surats, meag naglebma. magram ara ushavs sxvas gavamarjvebineb. SosoMK 08:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Persian Expedition of 1796
Hello. The reason I made the change was because Azerbaijan did not exist then, the area was made up of khanates. Would "Easter South Caucasus" be better?Hajji Piruz 14:36, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, Azerbaijani in that the khanates consisted of the Azerbaijani speakers, not that the khanates were Azerbaijan. The article currently links to the Azerbaijan Republic.Hajji Piruz 15:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Abkhazia
Kober, I don't know whether we should waste time on Abkhazia or not because the amount of vandalism is ridiculous to make it Kosovo-like (you know what I am talking about). I just corrected it a little bit. SosoMK 07:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Gamarjoba - in 'English - Hail to the Victory
ძმა ძმისთვისაო შავი დღისთვისაო. მადლობთ, კობერ, ჯიგარო SosoMK 10:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Narikala,_Tbilisi.jpg
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გივი
გივი როგორ ხარ ძამია? მე ვარ გიორგი. ანდერსენმა მომცა უფლება ამ რუქების ამოქაჩვის ვიკიპედიაზე (ზალიან მაგარი რუქებია). ლუისმა ამიხსნა როგორ დავამაგრო ესენი შენს გვერდზე. მოკლედ გამოიყენე ეს რუქები ისტორიული გვერდებისთვის აფხაზეთზე ან საქართველოს ისტორიისთვის. აბა დროებით. შენი გიორგი Iberieli 21:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Happy Peter's and Paul's Day
SosoMK 10:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

givi es sroebit, aq daerien luisis damatebul impormacias da imitom, magram amis dro ar mak. ehla chvens proektze vmushaob, tan samsahurshi mak zalian bevri sakme, jarshic. sectembridan isev scavla da mokled tbilishi albat ver chamoval, maisshi movaherheb da aucileblad gnahav. aba bendierad! Iberieli 15:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

გივი
ქართველების სურათი გავაკეთე (არ იყო მანამდე) და დავამაგრე "ჯეორჯიანს" გვერდზე. აგერ. რას ფიქრობ? ლიცენზიის შესახებ რამე ხომ არ გამოვტოვე? მადლობა. გიორგი. Iberieli 18:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

p.s. ზვიადის სურათი შეიძლება ვინმე გააღიზიანოს, მაგრამ მაინც დიდი გავლენა ჰქონდა საქრთველოს ისტორიაში. Iberieli 18:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

ვაააა სოსოს ნახავ ხვალ? მომიკითხე აუცილებლად, ჯიგარი ბიჯია. გივი მაშინ მომეხმარე მაგ სურათებზე რომ არ წაგვიშალონ. დღეს გავიცანი იგნეს ბაგრატიონი (გიორგი ბაგრატიონი მისი ბიძაა), ესპანეთში დაიბადა და ბევრი რამ იცის ბაგრატიონებზე. ძალიან კარგი გოგოა (26 წლისაა) და შეგვიძლია ბაგრატიონებზე ვკითხოთ რამე. აბა ბედნიერად გივი. გიორგი. Iberieli 19:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Possible sockpuppetry at Joseph Stalin
You might be interested to know that not long after you reverted Ghirlandajo's blanking of Stalin's Russian ancestry, a new user,, took the ref out again. This may be an attempt by Ghirlandajo to avoid 3RR--started a sockpuppetry case. Blueboy96 00:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply
That's what one gets for correcting a typo one time and attempting to reach a compromise another time... sigh... Alæxis¿question? 17:41, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

ps.
 * I also have many Georgia-related articles (and articles created by Bonnie Tones benefit) in my watchlist. Alæxis¿question? 17:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Now - yes ))) Alæxis¿question? 17:53, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

As it is a rather sensitive topic Wikipedia would benefit greatly if some scholarly source is provided imo. The more evident it is the easier it would be to find reference, I believe. If you don't like the look of the tag I wouldn't object to its removal, as long as some source is brought eventually. Alæxis¿question? 16:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

ps. Yeah, what stalking are you talking about here? You've edited Mingrelians article several months and many revisions ago. Alæxis¿question? 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm really surprised at your reaction... Your nationality obviously has nothing to do with it. Alæxis¿question? 16:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I know that Mingrelians generally consider themselves Georgian. This is demonstrated even by the Abkhazian census where one could declare whatever ethnicity s/he wants and the overwhelming majority (like about 95%) of the Gali district's population identified themselves as Georgian. This is not what I question. Ethnographic group is not an intuitive term and isn't very widespread either (afaik) so I still think the reference would do no harm... Alæxis¿question? 17:21, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

You may believe me or not but it was the discussion over there that brought my attention to this issue. Alæxis¿question? 16:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

akhali rukebi
givi, andersenis akhali rukebi Iberieli 21:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sanakoev746456.jpg
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კობერ: თუ ეს სურათი შენია image:Tower in Tusheti, Georgia.jpg, გთხოვ ვიკისაწყობშიც ატვირთო ქართულშიც რომ გამოვიყენოთ. მადლობა. - Alsandro · T · w:ka: Th · T 13:24, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * მადლობა, კობერ. :) - Alsandro · T · w:ka: Th · T 14:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Tower in Tusheti, Georgia.jpg
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Kober
Kober i just read your comments about Hewitt, here is what a researcher from US wrote about his book:

David Schaich (Boston, Massachusetts)

In case you are not already familiar with Abkhazia, let me give a very brief summary of its current situation. Abkhazia (or Abkhazeti to Georgians, or Apsny to its current government) is a small region in northwest Georgia, which was an autonomous republic (meaning only that the titular nationality had its culture promoted and benefited from a Soviet form of affirmative action) within Georgia during Soviet times. After Georgia broke away from the Soviet Union, Abkhazia managed (with some Russian help) to break away from Georgia following a war in 1992-1993 that was accompanied by ethnic cleansing and the flight of most of the ethnic Georgians in the region (200,000-250,000, or almost half of Abkhazia's 1989 population). Abkhazia has managed to maintain de facto independence ever since, though it has not been recognized by any other nation.

In this volume, Hewitt, a professor of Caucasian languages at the University of London, presents 16 essays on Abkhazia (in English), mostly written by Abkhazians themselves. These essays cover the geography, history, economy, language, culture, religion and demography of Abkhazia and thus form a very valuable source of information on Abkhazia for English speakers.

Unfortunately, because all of the material comes from Abkhazians or supporters of the Abkhazian side in the current conflict, I can't consider the information they present (especially that relating to twentieth-century history) entirely trustworthy. I recently wrote a long research paper on this conflict and found myself pulling my hair out trying to deal with the conflicting claims made by the two sides on a large number of issues. The allegations of ethnic cleansing and genocide made by both sides, as well as the issue of Russia's involvement in Abkhazia and the continuing refugee crisis, all serve to create and perpetuate a great deal of tension and conflict between the two sides (as can be seen by glancing through the reviews below). By (openly and unapologetically) backing one side in such a divisive and complicated conflict, Hewitt has done his readers a disservice. He has made it hard to fully trust the information the book contains and has made it more difficult for readers to really understand the Georgia-Abkhazia conflict.

That said, if you're interested in learning about the former (and possibly future) "Georgian Riviera", you will find a lot of information in this volume. It's up to you to decide how much to trust it. If you are seriously interested in the Georgian-Abkhazian conflict, you will definitely need to check out additional sources. I would suggest starting with some volumes edited by Bruno Coppieters (et al.) of the Vrije Universiteit Brussel (VUB): "Georgians and Abkhazians: the search for a Peace Settlement" and "Federal practice: exploring alternatives for Georgia and Abkhazia", both of which are available online on the VUB Web site. Both of these volumes are in English and include both Georgian and Abkhazian (as well as third-party) contributors. Iberieli 14:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Saakashvili
I am not sure whether he has LLM or JD. Tamokk 06:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

http://www.law.columbia.edu/alumni/highlights/alumni_news/2003/wint_03_04 this says llm.

http://www.law.columbia.edu/intl/intl_students/m_saakashvili it seems llm

Introduction
Hi Kober, i just wanted to draw your attention to the introduction section of Georgia article. Its a bit lame/uninformative and some parts are not suitable for the introduction section. For example the Russian withdrawal from Georgia and its tense relations with Russia should be removed (there is no place for that in intro section). Also the introduction should mention the key elements of Georgian achievement (like in Greece article intro), example: its own unique alphabet, early Christian conversion and churches, medieval academies, influential saints, world renown writers, musicians, etc. Also Georgian golden age should be mentioned and surely Rustaveli. Currently, its very poor and lacks important points. I just reviewed the history and observed the "unfriendly" people of Georgia trying to implement their POV (which in some case is anti-Georgian, evidently). I can offer some help regarding references and drafting the into. Do you want to co-operate on this with me? Thanks in advance. Taton80 15:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

აფხაზეთის ისტორია
გივი, როგორ ხარ ძამია? აფხაზეთის ისტორიის (შუა საუკუნე) სტატია ხომ არ დაგიმთავრებია? Iberieli 17:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Rustavi
Hello Kober, How are you?

1. Do you have same information about the origin of the name Rustavi. acording to the city site her:

"The same historical source tells us that Rustavi is early antique city. The trace of city life is discovered from IV century. This is the time then the building of one of the biggest cities of the Middle Ages began. Historical sources (“Georgia’s life”, “Convert of Georgia”) connect the King Trdati to the building of Rustavi. He built the first church and a canal here. The Georgian word for canal is “Ru”, as the city was built at the beginning of the canal, it gave push to the city name “Rustavi”, “the beginning of the canal”."

2. Acording to he same source "Bostan-Kalaki" is name from IV-V century. but according to this source it came from the wife of kartlos.

thanks. Geagea 16:31, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Government of the Autonomous Republic of Abkhazia
Hi Kober

do you know if this flag is the flag of Government of the Autonomous Republic of Abkhazia ?


 * No, its not. Iberieli 17:19, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Geagea 01:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Just what is it the flag of then? sephia karta  19:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Giga
Hi Kober and thanks for welcoming me. I hope I can contribute. How long have you been editing wikipedia? Giglia 07:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

ქართველთა გენერლობა და ოფიცრობა
გივი აგერ საინტერესი ფოტოები ჩვენი გენერლების, საქართველოს დემოკრატიული რესპუბლიკა 1917-1921

Iberieli 17:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

გავჩითავ ხოლმე. ნიკოლაძეების სურათები ნახე ჩებს facebook–ში, შემო იქ, ერთი ამას უყურე, საღოლ, რას მუშაობს მოსკოვი. Iberieli 17:37, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Abkhazia
Why unclear and unbalanced? Tamokk 07:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

უკრაინელები
გივი თუ გაქვს დრო, მომეხმარე ამ სტატიაზე საქართველო–უკრაინის დამოკიდებულებაზე. დიდი მადლობა. Iberieli 21:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Iberieli 15:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

ერთი ამას უყურე. გივი რამენაირათ უნდა დავიცვათ ეგ გვერდი. თუ ეს გამოუვიდათ და წაშალეს სტატია მთლიანად, ყველა აფხაზეთის სტატიებს დაერევიან. Iberieli 19:04, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Sasireti
Hello Kober

1. the Battle of Sasireti was in 1042, but acording article Kldekari (duchy) it was in 1048, and acordint the article Bagrat IV of Georgia it not possible because in 1048 liparit was captured by the selejuks. so it must be in 1051 when he released.

2. acording to the article about Battle of Sasireti the vikings fight with the georgians, and in another battle of Byzantine-Georgian wars, Battle of Shirimni the Varangians (also Viking) fight with the Byzantine Empire is it passible?

3. about Battle of Svindax. why "Svindax" it should be "svndax" (სჳნდაქს-ი) ?

Geagea 22:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

George II of Georgia
Hi Kober again

1. about Battle of Sasireti, if the vikings of the Caspian expeditions of the Rus lead by Ingvar the Far-Travelled (1036-1042) are involved so it should be 1042.

2. it is written that (about George II of Georgia):

"In 1070, Prince George, at the head of a combined Georgian-Alan army, inflicted a decisive defeat on the Shaddadid emir of Arran, Fadl III, and ravaged his possessions at Ganja"

but Al-Fadl III bin al-Fadl II was lead 1073-1075 (acording Shaddadid article). maybe it is Fadl II that lead 1067-1073?

3. it is written that:

"In 1059, Bagrat IV was able to resume the throne and made George his heir apparent... "

but in the article about Bagrat IV of Georgia:

"After three years of difficult negotiations, Bagrat managed to guarantee the emperor’s neutrality and returned to Georgia to regain what had been lost. In 1058, he forced Liparit into exile and attacked Aghsartan, king of the secessionist eastern Georgian Kingdom of Kakhs and Rans (Kakheti and Hereti)."

so is 1058 or 1059 ?

hope not disterbing to much, Geagea 09:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks Kober. I'm just transelating to hebrew. so I check the details. Geagea 09:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Chuburkhindji
Hi again

if I undestand right her they men that was a meeting in 27.7.2007. Geagea 21:40, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Georgians
Hi and thanks again for welcoming me. I would like to ask why did you decide that including Abkhazians as ethnic Georgians was inaccurate? If we consider Meskhetians (and they indeed are) to be Georgian why not include Abkhazians (descendant of Colchians just like Mingrelians) as part of one general Georgian ethnicity. Giglia 08:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * My point is that from all things considered (the fact that most of the separatist were actually Chechens is the Abkhazian War, ethnic mix with Turks, etc.), I don't think that Abkhazians have changed as much as some other Georgians (Lazs, Fereydanis, etc.) Giglia 08:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Gerzel Baazov
Hi Kober

Very good. You have in georgien გერცელ ბააზოვი and in hebrew הרצל באזוב. in hebrew Gerzel=Herzel. and the picture is book of his sister pania baazov who wright about family. also you have information her. Geagea 10:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * also if you have information about his father david baazov, who was leader of the Zionism in Georgia. it will be good. Geagea 11:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Gerzel from georgien. and thanks for the above. Geagea 14:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. about his David Baazov, well russian is not my best language. thanks again my friend. Geagea 01:07, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Georgian wikipedia
An overzealous admin speedily deleted the article Georgian Wikipedia. I restored it because it satisfies WP:WEB, criterion 3. I am quite sure that deletionists will not sit on their hands, therefore I suggest you, Georgians, expand this article. E.g., do you know any articles in Georgian press thta discuss georgian wikipedia? `'Míkka 22:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Abkhazian districts
Hi Kober

pleas see in the heb wiki her the two picturs of dividing to sub devisions. I belive it explain the meter that the abkhzian dividing is not recognized. best Geagea 11:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you very very much. Geagea 23:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

1. about Samtskhe Province, Ottoman Empire. did you see ახალციხის საფაშო?

2. I try to transalate the article ქუთაისის გუბერნია, but I find alot od differns with the russian version Кутаисская губерния. I belive that the georgien article is more correct. what do you say? Geagea 01:42, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Poti Cathedral
Maybe we should do a little exchange of the pictures if you have one for this article. If not, don't worry about it too much. Giglia 10:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Sakartvelos Skauturi Modzraobis Organizatsia
Hi Kober, This article has been sitting in Pages needing translation into English for nearly two years just because the Georgian Scouting Oath hasn't been translated to English! I did some research on Scouting Oaths, and they do differ slightly from country to country, so it would be great if you could translate this particular one so we can remove the article from Pages needing translation into English!! I hope you have the time to help! Thanks, --Sepa 19:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks!! Much appreciated. --Sepa 12:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

გივი აგერ საინტერესო იმფორმაცია გამოვიდა Iberieli 18:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

ილია ჭავჭავაძე
გივი აქ Ilia Chavchavadze ბევრი გრამატიკული შეცთომებია და აკლია ბევრი საინტერესო იმფორმაცია. იკნებ როცა დრო გექკება, დაამატო და შეასწორო ეს სტატია? აგერ საინტერესო წყარო ილიაზე. დიდი მადლობა. Iberieli 19:09, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

p.s გივი ეს სწორედ დავწერე? Iberieli 19:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

ქართველი მწერლები და მათი სურათების კოლექცია Iberieli 20:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

User:Pocopocopocopoco/sandbox/Government_of_the_Autonomous_Republic_of_Abkhazia/
Greetings Kober, I would really like to know if you are OK with the above sandbox article as it is? I feel it's reasonable and isn't significantly differ from your own suggestions. Please indicate that it is acceptable and we can ask user:Mikkalai to promote it from my sandbox and lift the protection and the tags from it. Pocopocopocopoco 02:38, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Greetings Kober, thanks for your help on the above article. I've currently been adding reference to the article and I was wondering if you have a reference that indicates that this government partly responsible for the affairs of the IDPs? I don't think it's a big deal but I'm just trying to cover all bases an avoid the possibility of any future disputes in this article. Have a look at the latest version, I made a few minor changes in addition to adding references. Pocopocopocopoco 01:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

დემეტრეს ახალი ეიფორია   —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iberieli (talk • contribs).

Byzantine-Georgian wars and Noe Zhordania
Hello Kober

Byzantine-Georgian wars

1. It is written in the article of Byzantine-Georgian wars that:

"...In the meantime George received reinforcements from the Kakhetians, and allied himself with the Byzantine commanders Nicephorus Phocas and Nicephorus Xiphias in their abortive insurrection in the emperor’s rear..."

Nicephorus Phocas must be mistake.

2. I call the article in the hebrew wiki "The Byzantine-Georgian conflict". maybe it's better name.

Noe Zhordania

In the article of Noe Zhordania

"chaired the government of the Democratic Republic of Georgia from July 24, 1918"

and in the article of Noe Ramishvili

Ramishvili was elected a Chairman of the Government and was replaced by his close associate, Noe Zhordania on June 24 1918

Geagea 23:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Givi
amis tsashla undat, propaganda ariso Iberieli 17:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Georgia and Russia: air space violations
Hi Kober, I address this question to you as you are one of the most active Georgia editors around who has also played a major role in editing Georgia-Russia relations. Currently, there is another incident between Georgia and Russia concerning whether or not Russia has allegedly violated Georgia's air space (again), and whether or not Georgia downed the plane in this case. The new incident is not (yet?) big/notable enough to deserve it's own page, but at the same time it becomes increasingly too big for something not directly being part of the 2007 Georgia missile incident (where I currently added it). So I'm wondering whether a new page should be created that deals with all alleged air space violations - as a sort of main page which deals with the situation as a whole and that has sections to every mediatized incident: the 2007 Georgia helicopter attack incident, the 2007 Georgia missile incident and the current plane downing incident. I ask you this because the page should avoid being (perceived as) a copy of the subarticles and I could use some help with it. What do you think? Sijo Ripa 08:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it is nevertheless a good idea to have a separate article for the plane downing, but I still feel a air space violation article is needed. Sijo Ripa 09:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Since when did the alleged violations start according to Georgia? I found a source in which Georgian Deputy Defense Minister Batu Kutelia said (on August 22, 2007) that nine air space violations had been recorded over the past three months. But did similar incidents happened before in recent years? Put differently, can we put a year or a period of years in the title? (e.g. 2007 or 2003-2007). I know for sure that Georgia claims that it happened before - in the 1990s - but if there is a large period of non-violations, I should just put the (recent) year(s) in the title and refer to similar incidents in a background section. The most difficult problem is finding a title that is NPOV. Perhaps, something like "Georgian alleged air space violations". (That's just one suggestion, I'm open to other suggestions.) Sijo Ripa 11:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "Georgian airspace violations"? Basically, no one denies that a violation could have occurred. Russia only denies that the planes or helicopters were Russian. Furthermore, there always seems to be some evidence that there was indeed aircraft in the air. Therefore, the "alleged" is not necessary as the title does not refer to Russia. Also, was there a continuous period of airspace violations since 1999? If not, it's perhaps best to put only the most recent continuous period of violations in the article, and the earlier incidents in a background section as I can imagine that te violations during the Chechen war had different motives and goals than the current ones. Sijo Ripa 18:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

მარიამობა
Iberieli 16:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

madloba
givi, didi madloba. eg surati ukve gamovihene War in Abkhazia gverdze. kargi suratia. bendierad givi. Iberieli 15:46, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Kikaleishvili
Kober, can you help to expand Mamuka Kikaleishvili article? I created it, but only put the information I had or found. Thanks. Atabek 04:41, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and this one as well Vakhtang Kikabidze, my other favourite. I improved it a little bit, added a picture, but it would be nice to have a filmography section. Atabek 05:18, 30 August 2007 (UTC)