User:Kober/Archive8

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17

Award
Hi, I decided to award fellow Wikipedians before finally leaving. Keep fighting anti-Georgian POV.

Another Award
Dear Kober. Im giving you this Barnstar for your amazing contribution to Wikipedia and for trully scholarly work. Your contributions are example of NPOV and truthful integrity of factual evants. Amazing work Kober, daily enjoing your agreat articles.

Answer
First, you're wrong that I know that 'Confederate/Cossack and Russian support was critical to the separatist victory'. I didn't participate in these events and after reviewing numerous publications and speaking with many people about it I didn't get such impression. Btw, what I know is rather irrelevant to Wikipedia and such arguments shouldn't be used in any disputes, imho.

If you think that there are more peacock terms in that article you could probably point them out and then we'll deal with all of them at the same time. Alæxis¿question? 08:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course they are proud of it. And so what? Alæxis¿question? 08:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Koba Batumi
I am probably being stupid, but I don't see why Koba Batumi is an obvious hoax,-- is somebody playing a joke on you? so i changed it to a prod. Could you explain on the article talk page.?, & I'll remove it. DGG (talk) 16:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

few questions
Hi Kober

I have few questions:

1. didgori
In the articl of Mount Didgori: "is situated some 40 km west of Georgia’s capital Tbilisi". and in the article Battle of Didgori: "at the place of Didgori sixteen kilometers northwest of Tbilisi". which one is wrong?

2. Basian, Phasiane, Pasinler
In Battle of Basian. the place Basian is ბასიანი? and maybe is same place Phasiane that mantions in Battle of Svindax? if it so it must be the place Pasinler Pasinler (Pasinler District) in the turkish wiki.

anyway I belive Pasinler and Basian are same. but in the georgian wiki written that basiani in Meskheti (border with armenia not Tueky). can you make some order in my head.

3. Shalva of Akhaltsikhe
In Shalva of Akhaltsikhe written that they captured the city Kars in 1205/1206. but in article Kars: "In 1207 the city was captured by the Georgians and given to the same Zakarid family who ruled Ani". so 1205/1206 or 1207?

4. Former provinces of Georgia
In the map of Former provinces of Georgia there are only provinces in georgia now, but no provinces in turty and armenia. for exsample Kabardino-Balkaria was Former province of Georgia, but its out of georgia now.

So much disturb today :) Geagea 02:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks Kober for answering. I see a problem when I saw thet basiani is in meskheti, because according to the map it is small province in Georgia only.


 * About Kabardino-Balkaria. I agree. I made category for The united kongdom of Georgia her and I am trying to bild article about tha kingdom from the information her and the flag of the kingdom her. Kabardino-Balkaria is included in the category.


 * maybe former princes is better. it can be includ artani also and much other province in turky armenia azarbeijan etc.


 * I made nice article about tha battle of Kura plain, from this source page 90-92, the first battle of lasha giorgi against the mongols, but have 2 qustions 1. where is exactly Kura Plain. 2. it mention thet giorgi have Cumans in his army. maybe the are the Kipchaks in Georgia? anyway i inted to make article about the second battle of Kura Plain.


 * Thanks again for evrything. Geagea 13:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * one more thing battle of Shirvan in 1123 or 1124?

Geagea 22:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Byzantine studies
Please see my comment in reply to urs here.

Tourskin 06:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

გივი თუ ხარ ინტერნეტში შემატყობინე. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iberieli (talk • contribs) 16:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * About Byzantine studies. Theres a category here: Category:Byzantinists (type that in the search box) about people who have studied Byzantium that might help. However, as you may know, Byzantine history is heavily under-represented in curriculum world wide and in the UK and the US it is not even discussed until University / college. So there is little to write about I am afraid. Tourskin 04:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Iranel-Kartvelebi
Dear Kober, I think you are doing a great job in contributing to the Iranian-Georgian pages. I am only to a low extent familiar with the Georgian historiography, and maybe the Iranian historiography is different. The Georgian one is more ethno-national and the Iranian more imperial oriented. But still it is nice to see that in both there is a core of truth on which both agree, however they interprete it differently. It is striking to see that the (post-)Soviet ethno-nationalist historiographers of the republic of Azerbaijan are alone in their fabrications. Yes let them say that Saingilo and Heretians were Turkic. But it is evident that they were/ are Georgian. Not that important to me who were the inhabitants, but their stressfull efforts in falisfying the regional history is very unfortunate. Again didi madloba 17:42, 20 September 2007 (UTC)~

Answer
Thanks for the advice. Btw there is a few people (of Russian, in broad sense, descent) in Wikipedia who are rather critical of current situation in Russia and write a lot about it. I appreciate their efforts very much even though I don't agree with them sometimes. On the other hand the articles about Georgia often omit some facts unpleasant to Georgians. I don't know why have this happened and will occasionally add a bit of The Truth to Georgia-related articles.

ps. Regarding the racism in Russia it doesn't affect me directly and, frankly, I'm not that sure that it's rising (although it exists, of course). Alæxis¿question? 15:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Armenia doesn't have any problems with minorities, afaik and there's not much minorities there now. Azerbaijan?.. hm, maybe I'll give it a try - I remember that they've got Talyshs, Georgians and Lezgins and probably there are some problems with them. Alæxis¿question? 15:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The Republic of Georgia
Greetings Kober, you mentioned that The Republic of Georgia is a historical name. FYI, you might want to update this template. Pocopocopocopoco 02:40, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Mamao andria da youri anuaa.jpg
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 * Hi Kober, can you see whats going on with this its a screen shot and has proper tag, the shot is taken from 1st channel. Iberieli 21:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * p.s erti es nahe Horror Iberieli 23:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

From Pocopocopocopoco
Greatings Kober, I don't really know what you are talking about. All I can say is please assume good faith. You said yourself that you didn't know of a better source than Asian Encyclopedia (which obviously doesn't qualify under WP:RS) so I thought I'd try Wikiproject Turkey as they may have some census data or some other sources. Although I find the 1.5m figure suspicious, I'm not really disputing it I just want a better source than Asian Encyclopedia. Despite what you may think, I am interested in Georgia and the Caucauses and I am interested in improving these articles and making them more accurate. I am honoured though that you are following my contributions. Pocopocopocopoco 18:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, just a friendly reminder, watch out for WP:3RR in War_in_Abkhazia. Pocopocopocopoco 18:04, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you mean by "trying to get rid of articles that do not meet your pro-separatist POV" if you mean the AFD for Kokoity Fandarast, I freely admit in hindsight that I was wrong about that, I was under the impression that the article would never become NPOV due to a lack of non-geogian sources. You have to agree that the AFD did provide many people the incentive to make that article more NPOV. I'm also not sure what you mean by "promoting slanderish articles about Georgia" if you mean voting to rename and not delete in the AFD for "Georgian Chauvinism", I recognized from the start the article was POV and most likely created in bad faith however I thought that some of sources in the article could be used to create an NPOV article about the status of minorities in Georgia. My reasoning was that bad faith and POV in and of itself is not justification to delete an article and its better to make the article NPOV and change the title of the article to something that doesn't make it an attack page. In hindsight I should have voted delete, but no harm done as it was deleted anyway. I do make mistakes, but they are good faith mistakes.


 * Now that we are airing our greavances, I'd like to try to convince you of not constantly assuming bad faith and trying to be less hostile. You always say that I have separatist POV and but I'm not yet totally convinced that Abkhazia and South Ossetia should be separated from Georgia. My interest in Georgia goes beyond just separatist issues and I appreciate your contribution to wikipedia with regard to articles about Georgian history and culture.


 * In terms of Georgians in Turkey, I think it would make more sense to break it down the way it was done for Iran in terms of the Georgian speakers vs the estimated number and the estimated number of partial heritage. Demography_of_Turkey sites the number of Georgian speakers as 83,306 including those that speak georgian as a second language but the census data might be a bit old. Pocopocopocopoco 01:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Mutso, Georgia.jpg)
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NPA
Calling someone a stalker is a personal attack. I advise you to refrain from doing it.

I can assure you that I'll monitor and edit articles dealing with current events from Abkhazia in future whether it happens before or after you edited them. If you think this is inappropriate you may bring this issue up somewhere. Alæxis¿question? 16:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Try searching for Ganmukhuri ))
 * If you want me to say that, I've indeed learned about Gregory B. from your contribs however as my goal was not to cause disruption but to help establishing a compromise (which I think I did) this cannot be consisered stalking per WP:STALK. Alæxis¿question? 16:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you already forgotten this? Alæxis¿question? 18:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Tbilisi
Kober, portali davicke da naxe iqneb romelime rubrika sheavso (gansakutrebit rcheuli statia tu geguleba rame). - Alsandro · T · w:ka: Th · T 09:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Another answer
No, it's not something that I'd like to be congratulated with. There was a holiday here recently and there'll be my birthday soon so if you want to congratulate me with something feel free to do it ;)

ps. What never fails to amaze me, though, is how you guys blame Russia for whatever bad is happening in Georgia. Alæxis¿question? 06:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I know that you really enjoy another crisis in my country, but...
You could be a little nicer if your trying to get other people to behave a certain way. The old saying goes, you catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. Of course, your post in my talk page may have been your idea of friendly banter or stress relief which is OK given the situation. Pocopocopocopoco 04:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Neponyatno
Hello! Ja istorik kotoryi zanimaetsja dinastiami.

I me konechno neprijatno kogda chelovek kotoryi v etom malo ponimaet nesjot kakieto strannosti.

Vopros o gruzinskih dinastiah izuchen i pereizuchen.

Ja byl v Tbilisi god nazat i byl porozon chto pravitelstvennye chinovniki, intelligencia i neznali kto takoi Nugzar Gruzinski, negovorja uzhe chto by ponijat chto etot chelovek glava tsarskogo doma Gruzii.

Ja vam trudno ponjat, chto Ispanskie Bagrationi konechno ljudi horoshie, i v prjam predstaviteli starshei vetvi Bagrationov, no tem ne menee ne predtsaviteli tsarskogo doma Gruzii, ibo etot dom suhsestvoval 1801 godu, i Bagrationi - Mukhraneli ne vhodili etot tsarski dom, oni ne byli princami krovi tsarstve Gruzii.

Eto vse fakti, i to chto vy ignoriruete eti fakti, ne krasivo.

Aarne iz Estonii. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.80.96.209 (talk) 10:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Washington Pravda
I remember you defending this newspaper. You might be interested in the article by one of their columninsts about Georgia. Alæxis¿question? 12:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

old Coat of arms
President of Georgia, Georgia (country), Image:Georgia coa.png - old Coat of arms. --Zangala 10:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Image:Georgian COA.jpg- new Coat of arms.--Zangala 16:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Many thanks, Zangala. --KoberTalk 17:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Byzantine Emperors
There is a template in this category : catdiffuse with this message: Articles in this category should be moved to subcategories where appropriate For this reason I've been removing this category and checking that the article was in the right subcategory.

I'm sorry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Margacst (talk • contribs) 14:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Monuments
Kober Megobaro, Do you have a list of monuments in georgia built in Safavid times but then destroyed and never rebuilt again? Recently Armenia has asked the Iranian cultural herritage to rebuild one Mosque. Having been to georgia I recognized that most buildings are in Russian style. Older buildings however are mostly churches. Those few remaining non-Church buildings have strong similarities with some monuments in Esfahan. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 18:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Texel
Hi, Kober

I noticed that there is no Georgian interwiki to this story. Just out of curiosity. Is this event even known in Georgia? nl:Gebruiker:Jcwf 75.178.179.208 (talk) 05:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Alexander of Georgia, Eskandar Mirza
Dear Kober, Eskandar Mirza on Abbas Mirza article was linked to a wrong one. It was suggested that he was an offspring of him. I think it was a mistake. Nevertheless it was redirected to a totally unrelated person, a modern Pakistani politican. So I corrected it. Can you please check this issue or rdit the articles, because you know it well. did madloba --Babakexorramdin (talk) 08:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Kober, can you check whether eskandar mirza mentioned as an offspring of Abbas Mirza was another one. 1- Do you know whether Abbas Mirza had had a son called Eskandar mirza? I don't. 2- was the Georgian Eskandar Mirza in an age which could be possibly be mistaken as Abbas Mirza's son? I think it is a mistake there because in persian too much the words like "donbale-row" (follower) "ham-mahfel" (of his/ the same circle)etc... is used in addition his title of Mirza (noble) make it difficult to distinguish him from the real sons. can you please check this by paying attention to these aspects?--Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

You can restore it, get some credit from them. Tamokk (talk) 06:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

ხოტოველი
Hi Kober

I have been asked about origin of ხოტოველი family. I know it Georgian jew. I find in this site:

ხოტეველი (ხოტოველი) - [გვარი ებრაულია; იხ. ილია გაგულაშვილი, ებრაულ საკუთარ სახელთა მცირე ლექსიკონი, ქუთაისი 1998; ზურაბ ჭუმბურიძე, რა გქვია შენ? თბილისი 2003, გვ.

Im not sure about what it means. may be yoe have more information? Geagea (talk) 22:24, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Happy Giorgoba!!!
Dear Kober,

I am very happy to be again actively involved in editing Wikipedia. In Tbilisi I did not have proper prerequisites to edit that actively, and although I am very busy doing my A Levels here in London, I still find more time to contribute to Wikipedia and especially to Georgia-related articles.

Many thanks for your attention and once again congratulations on St. George's Day!

Best wishes,

Gegi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.168.16.6 (talk) 19:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Help on the Iranian Georgian page
dear Kober there is an annoying guy/girl spamming the Iranian Georgian page and claim that Iranian georgians were Jewish and were forced to islam and says that they are not Shia Moslems because allegedly they retain their (jewish) beleifs. It is total nonsense. (s)he cites an israeli book and again and again reverts my edits. Now 8s)he is on the verge of a war, I need your help. didi madloba.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I never herd about it. Can you tell me which Israely book he/she talking about. I'll try to help. Geagea (talk) 23:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * s/he refers to Habib lev´'s book on the Persian Jews. I told her/him I cannot judge it because has not read it, but I am suspicious s/he is misquoting it. Not strangely as I suspect her/him being from the circles of brenda shaffer who is the infamous anti-Iraniast with such psudo-scholarly methods. Moreover I myself had a hypothesis of the existence of Georgian jews in Iran but it was rejected. Two reasons: 1- It is mentioned that among Shirvanis (rep. Azerbaijan, but count also Dagestan) migrants might have been jews. They were then mountain jews. Georgian jews were concentrated in Kutaisi which was not affected by relocations by Shah Abbas. 2- Tat language of mountain jews is a south west Iranian language, makes them more possible being migrants from south than vice versa 3- persian jews are an ancient community decending from the jewish community which settled in persia during Cyrus the Great's rule. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:24, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I find in Hebrew that jews of Zagrum (or Zagrom or Zagram) from Georgia (I dont know where it is) migrate to Persia, with the leadership of Eliezer, in 1613, and they bild Farakh-abad and he helps abas to fight the ottomans. I dont know if they are same Georgians. I find it also her. Geagea (talk) 00:14, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * well I know it. But the jews of Zegem (today rep. Azerbaijan) were probably Tat speaking. Secondly there are non today. These Georgian jews islamized and became persians/mazandaranis. I also do not think that they remained jewish, because Farah Abad has no jewish community, Persian or (let stand) Georgian. And for the accuracy tell me to what source the hebrew book is referring regarding the Jews of Farah Abad?My sources all distinguish the migrants into three categories : 1- Armenian 2- Georgians 3- Jewish, suggesting that these jews were not Georgians. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:30, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * it is not in Hebrew, itws in english. I dont have it. the auther is the head of the Iranien Jews reserch in the univercity of tel aviv. Geagea (talk) 00:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok but Habib Levy should have had some sources to which he referred.
 * 1. about habib yuo have the ISBN maybe you can chack it.
 * 2. the Tat language of come to the area of mountain jews only durind Nadir Shah. befor that they speak Azerbaijani language and Hebrew. Geagea (talk) 01:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * well maybe, I can accept this assertion especially because nader had a campaign there to punish the Lezgins so he might have brought some Tat jews to there to the vacant land. It might be possible that the area was Turkified already in the 17th century but I think hebrew was not spoken. maybe only Rabbis did. There are however Aramaic sepaking jews in Iran but they live in western Iran near Iraqi border. but in any case not georgians. Interesting info by the way.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Uplistsikhe
Kober, thanks a lot for your work on Uplistsikhe - I started the article, but didn't know enough about the subject (and didn't read enough Georgian) to unstub it. Very thorough and encyclopedic. Kudos! Levan (talk) 08:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Zagrum
Gamarjoba Kober

I do not know where it is Zagrum. I find it when I try t help Babakexorramdin. I find it in Hebrew and then look for English, and I find this. same infomation like the Hebrew one. Because I don't see it in the research about Georgian jews I assuming that they are the mountain Jew. Geagea (talk) 22:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It was in what is now called rep. Azerbaijan and probably name of an area and not only of a town. Alamara says that Matqopi was underway from Zegem to Kartli and Tbilsi. It seems also that it was somewhere not to far from Dagestan because after the battle many fled to dagestan.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:38, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Images on Marines.mil
Hi Kober, not sure if you already know this but there are high resolution images of Georgian soldiers on Marines.mil. As works of military of US, they are in public domain. VartanM (talk) 18:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Yuri Anuaa.jpg
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email
kober plz check your email--Babakexorramdin (talk) 19:47, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

გივი გამო სკაიპზე თუ გაქ დრო. Iberieli (talk) 17:21, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Kober chemo megobaro naxe shen emails (sheni wikistvis gmail)--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:09, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Svaneti.jpg
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Harmonious editing
Kober, this is hardly helpful. The editor accidentally reverted your edit which is absolutely clear since he self-reverted with an apology within a minute. And after 6 hours have passed you come to his page accusing him of stalking (1) and chastising him (2) despite it is clear that the accidental revert was an honest error for which he already apologized. It looks like you are merely looking for any reason to accuse him of something. Please do not treat the editing disagreements as a WP:BATTLE. Thanks, --Irpen 05:42, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your tutelage, but this is not the first case with him. He appears wherever I go, claiming that his mission is to tell the Wikipedians the "truth about Georgia", something, he seems to think, cannot be expected from Georgian users. Best, --KoberTalk 05:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Look, even if it were so, there was nothing objectionable in this particular incident, an accidental revert with immediate self revert an apology. Especially the latter. No need to look for ways to escalate your feud (there seems to be one.) Regards, --Irpen 06:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

policies
Wikistalking refers to the act of following an editor to another article to continue disruption.

The term "wiki-stalking" has been coined to describe following a contributor around the wiki, editing the same articles as the target, with the intent of causing annoyance or distress to another contributor.

Reading another user's contribution log is not in itself harassment; those logs are public for good reason. In particular, proper use of an editor's history includes (but is not limited to) fixing errors or violations of Wikipedia policy, or correcting related problems on multiple articles (in fact, such practices are recommended both for Recent changes patrol and WikiProject Spam). The important part is the disruption — disruption is considered harmful. If "following another user around" is accompanied by tendentiousness, personal attacks, or other disruptive behavior, it may become a very serious matter.

I'm getting tired of it. What exactly do you consider disruption here? Correcting spelling mistake, adding reference, or editing an article on a subject that is immediately in my sphere of Wiki-interest (I am taking the cases in which I got accused of stalking)? WP:NPA is also a policy and continuous personal attacks are certainly against it. Alæxis¿question? 06:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not getting angry, I'm getting tired, as I've already written :) Alæxis¿question? 06:36, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

request
Kober chemo megobaro naxe shen emails (sheni wikistvis gmail)--Babakexorramdin (talk) 18:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

გამარჯობა Kober, ცოტა ხნის წინ დავამთავრე სტატია "თავისუფლების მოედანი" ქართულად და სურვილი მაქვს ეს იფორმაცია გარკვეულ წილად გადმოვიტანო აქაც, მაგრამ შენ რომ გიყურებ რა გარემოში გიხდება მუშაობა!!! ცოტა არ იყოს გამიჭირდეს შეიძლება :)) ეგებ ამასაც გადახედო – რა აზრის იქნები?. პატივისცემით--Rastrelli f (talk) 08:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Merry Christmas


Hi Kober! I wish you a Merry Christmas and all the best in the new year. - Darwinek (talk) 12:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi
I would like to ask your opinion about my recent revisions on the article about Peter the Iberian. The previous one was obviously biased. Giglia (talk) 16:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

December 2007
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. &mdash; slakr \ talk / 18:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Huh, you might wish to have a look at the page's history. I did not know that reverting external linkspams was subjected to sanctions. --KoberTalk 19:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text below. &mdash; slakr \ talk / 09:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I believe this block is unjustified, but I don't think that there is much point in contesting the decision since Wikipedia does not possess an effective mechanism to prevent the content-creating users from being distracted by edit-warriors and ethnically/politically motivated accounts.--KoberTalk 09:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)