User:Legis/GUE

I asked for a deletion review of the article on Global Underwater Explorers, as I thought it was inappropriate for a speedy deletion without a formal ADR. It has been suggested that I put reasoning down on the userspace, so I created this page to do.


 * Amongst technical diving training organisations, Technical Diving International is clearly the largest and most prevalent. Although there are no reliable statistics available, anecdotally, after TDI the two most prolific organisations in technical diving training are IANTD and GUE (for my anecdote, I am relying on an informal poll conducted recently on an online Scuba diving messageboard - see here).


 * It is worth pausing to note that less significant diver training organisations have Wikipedia articles, see for example American Nitrox Divers International. I know two bad arguments don't make a good one, but it does suggest a reasonable discussion should be had.


 * It is also worth noting the number of Wikipedia redlinks that point to a Global Underwater Explorers article: Special:WhatLinksHere/Global_Underwater_Explorers. It is not a vast number, but enough to show that the authors of other articles expect it to be there, or to be created one day.


 * It is also worth noting that the German language Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Underwater_Explorers), Norwegian language Wikipedia (http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Underwater_Explorers) and Swedish language Wikipedia (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Underwater_Explorers) all have GUE articles (of varying length).


 * Apart from its size, GUE has greater that normal significance within the diving community because of its controversial "DIR" philosophy. Although the DIR concept has been extremely divisive within the technical diving community, it has unquestionably had a significant impact on technical diving thinking.


 * Unlike many technical diving training organisations, GUE is not limited solely in its remit to diver training. It is also involed in scientific research and regional mapping projects.


 * On the deletion review it was mentioned that GUE was a local body; I am not sure that is correct (although I am truthfully not an expert). I know I grew out of the Florida cave diving community, but a quick Google search reveals that there are now GUE instructors training divers as far afield as Mexico and Australia.


 * In terms of third party notability, I did a few searches amongst diving magazines (those that allow you to search for content online) for GUE and DIR, and I attach links below:


 * Diver magazine (UK) - GUE
 * Diver magazine (UK) - GUE
 * Scuba diving magazine - Search return for GUE
 * Scuba diving magazine - Search return for DIR
 * Unfortunately the only magazine really dedicated to the technical diving community, Advanced Diver Magazine, is not user searchable.

I'll try and put some more stuff in as I come across it.

--Legis (talk - contribs) 17:46, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Not a secondary source, but I went through the GUE's course listings on www.gue.com for their introductory (DIRF) course, and found that in the past year they had listed 216 courses in 36 different countries including US, UK, Sweden, Norway, Italy and Australia each with more than 10 classes. The actual number of courses is probably less than that since some of the courses were probably canceled and I don't have the time to go through all 216 courses and determine their final status. That is at least objectively verifiable and the course listings database is much more NPOV than a press release. It should be at least sufficient to establish that GUE is notable outside of florida.

--Lamontcg (talk) 17:48, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Not for profit dive teams/clubs that have GUE certification as a standard (urls point to pages that hold their standards that reference GUE):


 * NWUE (Pacific NW, US)
 * SCRET (Pacific NW, US)
 * Ocean-Discovery (Sweden?)
 * NEUE (NE Atlantic, US)
 * BAUE (California, US)

==Lamontcg (talk) 17:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

GUE wiki start
I agree that this is an important topic as are all of the training agency pages. Since you choose to work on this topic, can we start adding the items found to the draft article below? Thanks for keeping after this. --Gene Hobbs (talk) 03:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Gene. As ever, you are way ahead of me. --Legis (talk - contribs) 11:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know about all that but I did have more free time last night. --Gene Hobbs (talk) 14:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry to arrive late, but today I realised (quite independently) that we were missing an article on GUE. I worked my way from the deletion log to here! I missed the speedy delete (must have blinked) but I'm sure that it will happen again unless we can find something that proves notability. I've had this argument before (with Fabrictramp over Sub-Aqua Association) and what is needed is something that mentions GUE in the press. I'm currently searching for press coverage of the conferences, but I guess I'm going to need sleep soon. Incidentally, GUE is a publisher e.g. Amazon - Publisher: Global Underwater Explorers ; (September 6, 2001). That's ISBN-10: 0971326703 - might go a little way to showing notability. And, by coincidence, I did a clean-up on WKPP a couple of days ago - it had been hit by a driveby attack which seemed to want to get it deleted. WKPP seems to be part of GUE now, so it makes me wonder ... --RexxS (talk) 03:22, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yes, the speedy deletion was contested and upheld, which I have to say really surprised me.  But this is probably as good a place as any to build a new article with appropriate external references.  I don't have any doubts that a proper GUE article is appropriate for all the reasons canvassed previously.  I am off on holiday shortly, but when I get back I may return my attention to this issue (there is an irony to this, as DIR divers slightly get on my goat, but here I am fighting their corner... the greater good I suppose!). --Legis (talk - contribs) 12:11, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * So, of the 20 references, 11 are now external to GUE's own site. 2 are news media, 2 are from a magazine, and 2 from other web sites. If this does not make it notable enough for the main site, I don't know what will. Legis, I vote for you to move it and we will help watchdog it. Good work! --Gene Hobbs (talk) 14:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hehe - I was incoherent last night (much too late), anyway what I mean to say about GUE being a publisher is that you can find their books at Amazon, etc. which is another kind of notability. I'll see if I can find them another well-respected bookseller. It all goes toward making the point that they are not just a small outfit publishing material for their own use. I'll try to add a paragraph to say what I mean. Take it out if you don't like it. Similarly, it's worth mentioning what makes GUE interesting: the fact that WKPP is part of GUE (e.g. http://www.wkpp.org redirects to http://gue.com/Projects/WKPP/index.html); and the unique philosophy of GUE (all the Hogarthian & DIR stuff). --RexxS (talk) 18:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Can I "untweek" those refs please, Gene? Neither Amazon nor Barnes&Noble are the publishers - just the resellers (which was what I was trying to point to). The cite template is a good tool for standardisation, but it's perfectly acceptable to include other text inside the ref.../ref construction if it doesn't fit within the cite. (Edit/P.S. the article is much too big for a stub now - it's probably bigger than "Start class") --RexxS (talk) 20:42, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The cite template used is the "web" template. They are the publishers of the site to which you linked. It is not saying they are the publishers of the content held within their site. So in my mind no but when have I ever really cared before?  Good work on this! --Gene Hobbs (talk) 21:42, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I am utterly convinced by your argument - I wuz wrong: they shall stay where you put 'em!  --RexxS (talk) 21:54, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * (undent) See WP:CORP, particularly WP:CORP which suggests that a profile at Hoover's (or similar) establishes notability for those organisations. Then see: this page --RexxS (talk) 00:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

GUE wiki draft
Global Underwater Explorers, Inc. (GUE) is a non-profit organization devoted to excellence in diver training, underwater exploration and conservation. GUE was formed by a number of people involved in the Woodville Karst Plain Project (WKPP), which now has the status of a non-profit affiliate of GUE. Jarrod Jablonski, President of GUE, promoted the ideas of "Hogarthian" gear configuration and the "Do It Right" (DIR) system of diving to a global audience. The philosophy of a standardised approach to gear configuration and diving procedures was developed by WKPP, resulting in the significant reduction in diving incidents within the cave system since 1995. This is now the basis of the diver training programme of GUE, marking an important difference from the programmes of other diver training organizations. When GUE was formed it was co-located with Extreme Exposure dive store. However, Extreme Exposure has now changed locations allowing for further growth of the organization.

Mission statement
Global Underwater Explorers emerged out of a shared desire to safely explore and protect the underwater world and to improve the quality of education and research in all things aquatic. In line with the original vision of its founding members, GUE is committed to:


 * Developing safe, skilled, and knowledgeable divers
 * Undertaking and promoting underwater research
 * Pursuing global underwater exploration
 * Safeguarding the integrity of the underwater world
 * Providing the public with a comprehensive resource on all things aquatic.

Working to redefine the ties binding the average underwater enthusiast to underwater explorers, conservationists and scientific researchers GUE is committed to the overall goal of promoting the interests of the underwater world and of those who seek to engage it.

Board of directors
The GUE board of directors includes two fellows of The Explorers Club Jarrod Jablonski and Casey McKinlay as well as cave diving instructor David Rhea, entrepreneur Robert Carmichael and researcher Todd Kincaid.

Outreach
Some of their notable outreach projects have included:
 * GUE and Woodville Karst Plain Project (WKPP) members make record 3.5 mile cave penetration in 1998.
 * GUE and the WKPP provided video captured by documentary filmmaker Marc Singer  for Hazlett-Kincaid, Inc.'s interactive, multimedia exhibit Awesome Aquifer Adventure which highlighted various aspects of groundwater for the Reading Public Museum. The sixth month exhibit ended March 24, 2002.
 * The Ocean Conservancy beach clean-up at Hutchinson Island located in Martin County, Florida in 2003
 * The "Underwater Exploration and the DIR system" was held in Italy.
 * The "GUE Conference 2005" was held in Gainesville, Florida.
 * GUE volunteers supported the scanning and archiving of the Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society journals with the Rubicon Foundation.
 * The "GUE Conference 2006" was held in Gainesville, Florida.
 * The "GUE Conference 2007" was held in Budapest, Hungary.

GUE instructors regularly host "Introduction to DIR" workshops aimed at promoting the Doing It Right (DIR) approach to diving.

Courses
GUE has courses ranging from basic recreational diving through exploration level cave diving. These courses are available from instructors located around the globe.

Course work tends to be intense over a short period of time leaving students to be critical of the lack of training materials available.

Publications
GUE publishes a number of books and videos related to their philosophy of diving. These are generally available through their website, other online retailers and bookshops.