User:Lquilter/WPdrafts/Episodes Guide

Lquilter 2008/1/16 formulation
What would be a notable episode? Pilots of long-running series; episodes that win awards; episodes that were highly influential or famous or received significant critical acclaim or broke highly notable viewership records -- for example, the "who shot JR" episode of Dallas is famous for its cliffhanger; the little boy who could change the world episode is a highly influential episode of The Twilight Zone; "Hush" is a highly notable Buffy episode. --Lquilter (talk) 02:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Guest9999 2008/1/16 formulation
Articles for TV episodes should ONLY exist if they have recieved significant coverage from third party reliable sources AND there is enough verifiable, real world information available to make that article more than just a plot summary.

This probably is the case for some episodes, which may have won awards, been part of a real world controversy, been the subject of real world accusations, had a major affect on the show in the real world or have sparked other reported upon incidents but is likely not true for many others. Personally I think that the current “rules” are pretty clear, the only real questions are:

1. Do those “rules” truly represent the current consensus of Wikipedia editors? 2. If this is the case is there a good reason to reject those "rules" in this instance? Guest9999 (talk) 00:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Kww 2008/1/16 formulation

 * No, episodes of a notable show are not inherently notable. No, an infobox and plot does not satisfy notability. Notable episodes are those that have been nominated for individual awards; have had elements of that episode nominated for an award (i.e. "best supporting actor" for a guest-starring role); reached an unusual peak of ratings (such as the finale of M*A*S*H); or achieved other notoriety (the "seizure-causing" episode of Pokemon; the Trapped in the Closet episode of South Park, etc.)Kww (talk) 16:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Eusebeus 2007/12/23 formulation
To make a more general point and incidentally respond to what Laynethebangs has correctly identified as an outpouring of concern at the Scrubs LOE page after we undertook the redirect, it is clear that episode retention is not really the issue. Scrubs fans - I'll speak for them since I know that case best - want

1. the songs featured in the episode + performer info 2. in-universe and continuity details, such as character family info, peripheral character info, guest stars etc... 3. detailed plot outlines 4. trivia

Per our existing standard at WP:N, WP:NOT#PLOT, WP:WAF & WP:TRIVIA episode retention would focus on

1. production 2. external reviews 3. wider, real-world cultural significance 4. episode specific awards

and would have a modest amount of in-universe details to provide context. Well, frankly that is not what "the people" named above likely want - and neither would I if I am looking for a detailed episode guide. WTF do I care if some camera guy named Frank won a $#^%# award for special angle work in My Random Episode. What I probably care about is like OMG why is JD bald?? or in which episode did Carla get pregnant or other such info. To caricature those of us undertaking these sitewide revisions as rabid deletionists may make people feel better, but such slander (intended or otherwise) does little to resolve the basic tension that is at work here. Even if we keep individual TV episodes, the onus to focus on real-world significance is not going to deliver the content fans want. Consistently, via AfD and policy discussion and now arbcom, there has been strong consensus that Wikipedia not be a fanguide, that this not be a place for extensive in-universe fan-driven content. Consensus can change, of course, but if people want to change our policies, going after a specific guideline is not the right place. We need to rewrite our standards - not to be undertaken lightly - at WP:N and WP:NOT, since this guideline - and consequently the actions of us evil deletionists - are a sincere reflexion of those principles. Eusebeus (talk) 13:26, 23 December 2007 (UTC)