User:Masem/t

Moving forward
Ok, we're getting too much bickering and not enough forward progress here.

First, I feel it necessary that we need to assert that the poll results have been concluded and that unless someone has identified significant vote fraud, that the results need to be taken for what there is. That is: arguing about where the poll was advertised (it was put to the Village Pump and CENT, so it's hard to argue that it wasn't widely advertised), arguing about the split between Irish and British voters, and the like is wasting the collaboration's time. I'm aware of the issues, but I cannot see how this could be considered to invalidate a poll with >200 editors input. I'm also aware of what those strongly against the use of the RoI are coming from and can sympathize, but to be honest, the evidence against using this term is extremely weak compared to the evidence that the term is readily accepted. I'm not trying to judge on the term, but just a fact of this case - if you want to persuade people that we need to stop using this term, we need stronger evidence than what has been given. Counter example: We aren't calling African-Americans by a certain 6-letter word that starts with "n" despite the fact a subgroup of them use it freely among themselves because there's documented evidence that that term is a racial slur. If you find similar evidence for using ROI, then you might persuade the case better. Again, I'm not trying to be biased here, just brutally honest as to why the vote resulted in the way it did). Second, we're getting off track of the remaining issues. I believe these are limited to:
 * How to refer to the island or country in "History of X"-type articles.
 * How to disambiguate other pages that would use (X) as a disambiguation term
 * How to refer to the island or country (and other related terms) in any article relating to them.

My advice on these two as starting points, but please do not take these as "you must agree to these", are listed below. --M ASEM (t) 16:47, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Names in "History of X" type articles

 * I believe that for these, if it is about the island (which may include details of the country but also include other parts including N. Ireland and what existed before the country was in place), then X should be "Ireland" as per the naming poll.
 * If it is strictly about the country, then X should be "Republic of Ireland". --M ASEM (t) 16:47, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation Terms
This depends if the term is unambiguously associated with a facet of a country or the government of that country (e.g. "Currency") or may be interpreted as either the country or island (e.g. "Roads")
 * If the term is going to unambiguously be recognized as referring to a country, then the disambiguation should be "(Ireland)".
 * If this is not the case:
 * If the article is strictly focused on the country, then the disambiguation should be "(Republic of Ireland)"
 * If the article includes the island-wide facets, the the disambiguation should be "(Ireland)" --M ASEM (t) 16:47, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

In article bodies
We should strive to be similarly consistent with our linking policy, and make sure that we are clear on the first use of "Ireland" as to what it will primarily mean for the rest of the article to avoid excessive words. So for instance: When I say "primarily", I am implying that the other facet is brought up, say, no more than five times during the course of the article, while the main facet would be 50-100 or more times. --M ASEM (t) 16:47, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * An article primarily about the island should always identify the island as "Ireland", with the first use in the lede stating "the island of Ireland", while the country should always be identified as "the Republic of Ireland" or just "the Republic" after the "Republic of Ireland" term is established.
 * An article primarily about the country should establish in the lede "the Republic of Ireland", and then always refer to the country by "Ireland" after that point. If the island is mentioned, it should be "the island of Ireland" with "the island" as the appropriate use later after that.
 * An article that is equally split between the island and country should probably clearly refer to both as "the island of Ireland" and "the Republic of Ireland", reducing those to "the island" and "the Republic".
 * If possible, if there is no significant reference to any other countries besides the Republic of Ireland, then it can be simplified further as "country". Same with using "island". Once you've established what the proper names are, generic nouns will help to remove much of the contention in using the terms.
 * Always consider to strive for precision and clarity above all these rules. Consider reorganization of content if to help separate discussion of the island from the country if  possible to avoid invoking the third rule of thumb above. If a possibly contentious statement is included that could be inferred to be either the country or island under the first two rules of thumb, spell it out.