User:Maunus/Talk:Archivepage1


 * The paragraph about Proto-Otomanguean sounds doesn't make complete sense to me. Stops are included in obstruents, for example. And other details. It would be difficult to fix it, however, because I don't know exactly what was intended. Nor is Proto-Otomanguean my area. Stevemarlett 18:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * hi nice article. note you can set up an info box which all different dialects or languages on wiki have. see Swahili language. It can be copied and then adapted. James Janderson 12:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The Nahuatl page could use your help. See my note on the talk page. Thanks! Lavintzin 17:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello, are you still there, Magnuspharao?
 * Thanks for your insightful comments on the Talk:Nahuatl page. Madman 23:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Mesoamerican Linguistic Area
Hi magnus, thanks for the notification re this new article you've created, it looks to be a fine start indeed. I've responded to your query re how to go about adding it to the scope of WikiProject Mesoamerica at the article's talk page.

ps. If you are interested, you'd be most welcome to look around WikiProject Mesoamerica's project pages, and/or sign up and help us out in improving articles in this subject area. We could certainly use someone with your linguistic expertise. Happy to answer any questions you may have, either at the Project discussion board or at my talk page.

pps. I noted your recent comment at another talk page that you would like to change your user name. This can be done, if you wish- see WP:CHU for details on how to go about it. Regards, --cjllw | TALK  03:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Etymology of Culhuacan
Hi Maunus (and welcome to WP:MESO, by the way!). In doing some background research into the Valley of Mexico site Culhuacan (or Colhuacan), there seem to be a couple of competing etymologies for its name. One source glosses the meaning as something like "place of those with ancestors", while others (such as the Relación geográfica of Culhuacan) give it to mean "bent hill/mountain" or "twisted ridge". In consulting some online Nahuatl dictionaries I'm struggling to see how either of these apply, although presumably -hua'can is indeed something like "place of where owners of [x] are". Does col- have some associated meaning such as "ancestor", or "bent, twisted", or...? Or (as seems to be implied) are these homophones, since the glyph used to denote Culhuacan in aztec codices is indeed shaped like a 'bent' hill.

Appreciate any insights you may have on the matter.--cjllw | TALK  03:55, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmations, Maunus- precisely what I was looking for - much appreciated! Cheers, --cjllw | TALK  23:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Otomi language
Hi Maunus- when I look at this page I don't see anything particularly amiss, just needs a bit more copyediting and perhaps a little rewrite in places so that the tone is not so technical. Perhaps it is a problem with your web browser? You could try clearing your browser's cache and reload the page, see if that improves matters. If not, what are the symptoms you are seeing- misaligned text, tables out of whack, or...?--cjllw | TALK  07:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the La Mojarra Stela 1 photos!!!
Being a creature of the American Midwest, I have no direct access to these artifacts and monuments that I write about. Therefore, it was a real treat to see the photos you've added to La Mojarra Stela 1.

Do you have the right side photo in higher resolution or larger??


 * No problems I am happy to contribute them. And yes I do have better versions. I have another photo taken in a straight angle too, but the signs are a little harder to see on that one because of the light. I'd be happy to supply you with them


 * It sounds like you've chosen the best photos, if you could upload a higher resolution right side photo it would give better detail.


 * Since you were in the Museo de Antropologica in Xalapa, do you have any photos of the twins &/or jaguars found at El Azuzul -- also known as Loma del Zapote -- (as seen in the middle of this page), or of Altar 5, or even of more colossal heads?? That would just be wonderful.  Madman 14:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I was only really interested in the stela and I didn't get good photos of other stuff. My wife is in all the pictures of colossal heads (not that she's not pretty but I don't think it suits wikipedian needs). I will probably put up some photos of Chalcatzingo and Xochicalco though.--Maunus 14:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey, you have some nice photos there!! I've already added the "jaguarbaby" to the Jaguars in Mesoamerican culture article.  If you don't mind, I would also like to take a few excerpts of the frontal shot of La Mojarra Stela 1 and use them in the Epi-Olmec script and possibly the Maya calendar article.  The glyphs are so clear in the shot, I think it may be better than the oblique photo on La Mojarra Stela 1.  In any case, good work, and thanks.  I've been starving for good images.  Madman 21:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * >>I will probably put up some photos of Chalcatzingo and Xochicalco though<< I've been doing some work over at Chalcatzingo and was wondering whether you had any photos of the site &/or the monuments? Curiously yours, Madman 18:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I havent had a chance to acces them yet. Ill post you a message when I do.Maunus 18:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I will patiently wait. Thanks! Madman 19:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's discuss orthography changes
Maunus, let's discuss any wholesale changes to spelling (orthography) beforehand. In particular, the name of the Aztec capital is "Tenochtitlan", which is not only the name of the article in English, but Spanish as well. I have never seen "Tenochtitlān" used by anyone - I will occasionally find "Tenochtitlán" but none of the established sources (e.g. Michael Coe) use that.

I did open a discussion on orthography on the Nahuatl talk page some time ago, but without resolution.

Thanks, Madman 17:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Some recent changes made at Otomi language
Hi Maunus, would you be able to review some recent changes made at this article- they seem plausible but I'm not familiar with this area. For some background on the contributor, see also User talk:CJLL_Wright and here as well. Regards, --cjllw | TALK  05:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Accented chars
Hi Maunus. Do you know of any Mesoamerican languages which make use of accented characters in their native orthographies (in particular, as a marker for stress, and discounting of course how they might be marked in a written spanish context)? I've presumed there aren't any, but I could easily be mistaken. Cheers,--cjllw | TALK  13:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * A lot of Totonac orthographies use acute accent as a marker fort stress, as do some northern uto-aztecan languages. Others such as otomi and Mazahua orthographies use accents for tone. Some varieties of nahuatl that have phonemic stress also use them for stress, and even in classical nahuatl accent grave is used to mark stess in the vocative form of the verb which is the only form that doesn't have stress on the penultimate syllable. So yes, many languages do.Maunus 16:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

My Bot
It was just going through Category:Ancient Egypt and sub cat's which is where my bot got the list. Category:Ancient Egypt --> Category:Ancient Egyptian language --> Category:Hieroglyphs --> Mesoamerican writing systems is why my bot tagged it. Betacommand 16:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Re : Matthew Stirling
Thank you for the assessment and the corrections. I was wondering if you (or anyone else, actually) has a copyright-free image of Stirling that I could put on the page. Sdsouza 22:31, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Olmec
Hi, I ask an arbitration about French School. Can you give me your opinion. Thanks again. Olmeque 17:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Maunus, I am having some difficulty with Olmeque over at the Olmec article. He insists on using just his wording and only his wording regarding this so-called "French School". I have tried in several ways to blend his points into the article, but he wants his section in his exact words.

I would appreciate your input there, if you have the time. Thanks, Madman 15:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Question at Talk:Maquahuitl
Maunus, being one of the resident Nahuatl experts, could you pass judgement on the question of spelling Maquahuitl/Macuahuitl over at Talk:Maquahuitl? Any insight would be appreciated. Madman 01:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Tarascan state

 * Wonderfully well written and referenced. Enjoyed reading it very much.  Cheers -- Samir   धर्म 08:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

DYK P'urhépecha language
Congratulations, Maunus. You are well on your way to becoming a Did You Know addict! : )

And I do have to say, with amazement and affection, that only a linguist could write (or understand!) something like this:


 * Did you know ...that the P'urhépecha language isolate of Mexico is one of only two Mesoamerican languages not to have a phonemic glottal stop and that it has more than 160 affixes, 13 tenses and 6 modes? 

Keep up the good work!! Madman 19:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks :) . It may have been a little dense but it was all wikilinked: if you follow the links to all those linguistic terms you may end up becoming a linguist yourself! Maunus 20:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Edit summary
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Starting a Pipil language page
Following our recent discussion, I am thinking about writing the Pipil/Nawat language page we talked about. I don't know if you can give me any (technical) tips about how to get going. I have looked around in the help pages of course, but there are still some doubts in my mind, as this is my first time.

One idea that I am considering is to start by copying another language article (perhaps one of yours), renaming it and using it as a sort of informal template. I could do that and then if I came up with more specific difficulties I could come back to you (or someone else, if you prefer) to see if you can help me out.

Since we have, for now, apparently agreed to disagree on the point of the name of the language, I suggest the following compromise, and I'd like to know whether you agree to it. Initially I will name the page 'Pipil language'. At the beginning of the article I would like to refer, briefly and objectively, to the fact that there is some disagreement about how the language should be referred to, and then state that in the rest of the article the language will often be referred to as Nawat. Within that context there should not be any ambiguity regarding what language we are talking about. It will be undersood that nothing (including the name of the page) is to be considered the 'last word' on this matter; I would just like to get the issue (temporarily at least) out of the way so as to get on with the 'real' work of developing a good article on the language. Does that sound okay to you?

As for the contents of the article, as I said before, my strongest area is the description of the language system itself, i.e. sounds, grammar, etc. Other questions I can also touch on are: present state of the language and its speakers, and official status (or rather non-status!); relationship (i.e. lack of, genetically) to other indigenous languages of El Salvador, with cross-references of course; language recovery initiatives; writing and alternative spelling systems; typological observations; lexicon; sample vocabulary items; existing written and audio corpus; some sample texts and recordings; sources and references.

I have deliberately omitted some aspects here, because I would prefer someone else to help out, both to involve more than one editor but also to lighten my work load if possible. Naturally any or all of the aforementioned areas are open to other contributions, but I particularly think that sections on the language's history, genetic affiliation, language status (is it a dialect of Nahuatl or a language in its own right?) etc. could perhaps be done by someone else.

Then there is another matter of concern to me. One is not allowed to cite one's own work, or refer to an organisation to which one belongs. But there are references to both my work and organisations to which I belong that would help to make the information in the article more complete. From what I have gathered, a possible solution here is for another editor to supply such information. So if this works the way I think it does, perhaps I could first give you the relevant references or materials to look at, and if, as co-editor of the page, you (genuinely) consider that their mention is worthwhile and justified, you could insert such references. I don't want you to interpret this as in any way pressuring you to 'find them worthwhile and justified' or to put them in, I would leave that up to your judgment entirely. I'm just looking for a way to give the reading public the best and fullest information we can. Is this the right way to go about this, or if not what do you suggest? --A R King 09:03, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It sounds very good indeeed. I think you are more than wellprepared for making the page, and remember that we will all be there to check up on it, conform it to standards and discuss what is to be discussed. I will gladly look at your references and judge how they should be applied in the page, I think what you suggest is indeed the fairest and best way to get around the Original Research claim. I think that with all the deliberation you are putting into this that it will turn out a very good article. Maunus 23:07, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Lila Downs and Paul Cohen
Hi Maunus, do you have a source regarding their marriage? We need to cite this to put it in the article. -MrFizyx 16:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I suppose I consider that common knowledge snce he is always referred to as her husband. Try conducting a search for "Lila Downs Paul Cohen" on google, in interviews, reviews and descriptions he is always reffered to as such. If you speak spanish the spanish sites are even more consistent in calling him her "esposo". Do we really need to see their marriage certifiact to believe it? Maunus 16:26, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No need for a marriage certificate. I actually have searched for this before and everything I've read was pretty ambiguous.  If you could please, just cite one of the articles you've mentioned next to your statement.  The article can be in English or Spanish. -MrFizyx 16:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I took care of it. You were right, it was trivial to find! -MrFizyx 17:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Chochotec
Hey, I noticed that you did some work on the Chochotec article. I appreciate that -- I started it, but I really didn't know much about it. I also started Coatlán Zapotec language, and you may want to look at that as well. It's just a start. I was trying to create basic articles for languages which had interesting linguistic features, but I ran into a wall on finding information on them. CRGreathouse (t | c) 13:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I've expanded the Chocho article a bit. The only info I had was quoted from an article about another interesting language: Amuzgo. Maunus 14:09, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It looks great. Nice work! CRGreathouse (t | c) 14:40, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Mixezoquemap
HI, How did yu make the Mixe-Zoque map? I'd like to make some maps, esp. of Austronesian languages... Thanks!--68.72.44.62 12:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I made it in Photoshop using one of the blank maps that can be found through the Blank maps page as a base and painting the different languages in different colours. Maunus 12:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:50pesos.jpeg)
Thanks for uploading Image:50pesos.jpeg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image is unlicensed for use on Wikipedia and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Nv8200p talk 14:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I was going to use it for an article, but found a better one. Please go ahead and delete it.Maunus 07:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Toltecs
Hi there. I've been following bits of the recent debate about the disputed existence of a distinct Toltec culture. The issue comes as news to me since it goes against I've been told at school. Thus I was wondering whether you had some academic sources at hand so I could go on reading about it, instead of asking random questions in talk pages. I would prefer journal articles, but books could do as well. Thanks! -- Run e Welsh | &tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa; 15:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The articles supplied by Dr. Silverstein on the Talk: Toltec page are good to begin with. Also Introductions to Mesoamerican studies written after 1990 usually mentions that sources to "Toltec history" are more of religious/mythical origin than historical/archeological. For example the correlation betwee "Tula, Hidalgo" and the mythical Tollan of the Aztecs and Maya etc. is based solely on guesswork, nobody knows what culture built Tula (I think they were probably Huastecs). As for  Quetzal coatl as a "Toltec king" it is increedible that nobody seems to wonder how he got time to start so many civilizations and lineages after being expelled from Tula, almost every Mesoamerican people claims descendence from Quetzalcoatl or a similarly named (Kukulkan, Gucumatz etc.) persona. I will look for other journal articles on the subject. Try this online article:  and this one from "Ethnohistory" also by M E Smith
 * The Aztlan Migrations of the Nahuatl Chronicles: Myth or History? Michael E. Smith, Ethnohistory, Vol. 31, No. 3 (Summer, 1984), pp. 153-186

Maunus 15:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Mighty kind of you. Thank you! -- Run e Welsh | &tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa; 15:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

OIT
Dear, you are knowing IPA ( Int. Phonetics Alphabet ). So, if you can try learning Sanskrit, it will be most delighting to you. As a language sanskrit will make you more happy than others - as phonetics is your liking.Then, you can understand the whole points written by any Aryan Invasion/Migration theory opposer. If Sanskrit is some central asian language then why that area had not developed some scriptures or language tradition like ancient India ? You are invited to understand about ancient India. WIN 08:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Dear Win. I am not saying that Sanskrit is a central asian language, just like I am not saying that english or any other indo-eeuropean languae is a central asian language. Noone is saying that, we are saying that it is very likely descended from one. I understand that you like Sanskrit very much and that is your right, but science shoudln't be based on your personal tastes but on evidence and there is no evidence supporting the OIT theory I am afraid. You must understand that not everyone has the same tastes as for what is a beautiful or highly refined language.Maunus 08:46, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

As per Aryan theory, Avestan people left from some Central Asian land and Sanskrit speaking Aryans from that central asian land or Afghan. Now, Avestan words are linguistically Degraded form ( Apbhransh form ) of Sanskrit with not so perfect Sanskrit grammer. If you know Sanskrit then Avestan can be tried as reading ( which I have from Avesta.org ). Then, as per Aryan theory, do we understand that Aryans `purified' words in India. Or ancient Indians helped them to improve their word pronunciation with bettter grammatical structure. Whatever here I said is not my personal taste but told by Brahmins who are told to be nearest to Aryans ! WIN 09:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You are talking nonsense, there is no such thing as degrading or purification in linguistics and avestan didn't evelove from sanskrit but avestan and sanskrit have a common ancestor. Brahmins are not linguists nor scientists and nobody is closer to the aryans no matter their occupation or religion. I don't want to discuss this with you. You obviously have very little understanding of linguistics. Please don't comment here again. Maunus 09:32, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I have knowledge of linguistics very well.My mothertongue is IA. In fact, while learning Sanskrit that is taught first in India showing how words change due to improper pronunciation along with time and space. Some particular Sanskrit word's change in different IA languages is known to me alogwith English. Just one example Eng. navigate is derived from Sanskrit. navgatih ( to drive ship ). I have written about linguistics in talk pages of AIT or AMT and OIT. I will not write next time here, but it's sure that you need to come out of eggshell. WIN 12:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I was not talking about knowledge but about understanding. Maunus 12:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Did you do it?
I was reading the Classic Maya Languages page and noticed some vandalism. I checked the history after fixing it, and your name came up. Did you vandalize the page, or did you just not notice the vandalism and reverted the page to an earlier version to fix some other problem?--Dark Fennec 08:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No I didn't. I reverted another bit of vandalism but left out the other bit which had been there even longer because I didn't see it. Thanks for fixing it.Maunus 10:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh okay. DIdn't know, wanted to make sure. Thanks.--Dark Fennec 06:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Popoloca language
I read both articles before merging, and understand the distinction. If you think the Popoloca language variants support a separate article, that's fine, but then the Popoloca page should probably be an actual disambiguation page. That way a reader looking for the general term, language sub-family, or smaller sub-group can find it quickly. -- Alan McBeth 21:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Fransblom.jpg
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DYK
Sorry about my oversight earlier today. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 08:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Favio
I blocked them for 24 hours. The other place to post somethin like that is Administrator intervention against vandalism. THat way if I'm not around someone else will be able to see it. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 14:51, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Aztec map
There are a few things on your map that I think should be changed:


 * The colors are too hard to tell apart.
 * You use both Moctzeuma and Motecuzoma.
 * Otomies would normally be spelled Otomis or even just Otomi.
 * The map has unfilled whitespaces on it.

Haplolology 19:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, I just made it because there was no map at all.Maunus 21:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

References, also orthography
Hi there Maunus. I note that you've compiled a pretty handy list of Mesoamerican references. I think it could be useful to blend these in to a similar list of pre-filled citations of Mesoamerican refs which is being developed at the project subpage, WP:MESO/CITE, which I think has a similar intent.

Re the discussion on orthography at talk:Aztlán, I think we need to expand upon the proposed WP Mesoamerica guidelines if (as seems desirable) we should aim for some consistency re Nahuatl & other Mesoamerican terms. However, I'm not that familiar with Nahuatl conventions and so if you've time perhaps you could help out documenting the proposal and any ideas you may have there, and on the corresponding talk pg. Regards, --cjllw | TALK  08:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think both ideas are good. My list of references is unstructured but they are there. Anyone can begin putting them into the better format of WP:MESO/CITE, I don't have the time or interest at the moment myself. As for the large discussion on nahuatl transcription it really is a can of worms that I am somewhat reluctant to open. There just isn't a good way to do it. In fact I think spansih or english transcriptions are better because people will be looking for them, ideally the choice between the two should be motivated by which is more commonly used, but more often than not it is an arbitrary choice. But it would be nice to at least be consequent in a mediochre solution, that is true. Open the discussio0n and I'll participate. Maunus 20:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Ortografía del nahuatl
Maunus, espero que este bien escribirte en español, me dirijo a ti porque viendo los conocimientos que tienes sobre lenguas, quisiera preguntarte tu opinión acerca de la ortografía correcta del náhuatl, la razón es que soy colaborardor de la Wikipedia en Nahuatl y ahi estamos teniendo el conflicto entre si utilizar la ortografía clásica o la moderna que utiliza la Secretaría de Educación Pública, ojala que nos pudieras orientar, saludos! --Battroid 22:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Lo siento mucho pero no puedo ayudar mucho en este asunto. Las dos ortografias ambas tienen ventajas y desventajas y la eleccion entre ellas es basicamente arbitraria. Ahora me parece que están usando una mezcla de los dos (escriben huiquipedia pero usan el w y la k en otros lados) eso solamente sirve para confundir la gente. Tambien el dialecto que escriben ahí es una reinvencion del Náhuatl clasico (es la gramatica del clasico pero con palabras inventadas) eso tal vez sería un argumento para usar la ortografía clasica. Sin duda sabes que existen un multitud de variantes modernos del nawatl y la gran mayoría de sus hablantes no leen ni escriben el nawatl, mucho menos en el internet. Cuando se hacen enquestas de cual ortografiá les gusta mas a los hablantes mismos unos prefieren el moderno (con k y w y j) y otros la mas hispaniolzada del clasico (con qu hu y h) no hay ninguna preferencia de la comunidad nawa entera, porque no hay una comunidad nawa entera hay miles diferentes variantes, y muchos de ellos no se entienden entre si. Asi es que la mayoría de los hablantes modernos no van a entender lo que ustedes están escribiendo de todos modos, si es que llegan a encontrar la pagina en el internet (en tal caso el hablante de nawatl seguramente habla muy bien el español tambien y a lo mejor le va a servir de mas usar la wikipedia española). En mi opinion hay dos lados del wikipedia en nawatl: ees muy bueno que alguien se preocupa por hacer visible los idiomas indigenas en ele internet PERO el wiki en nawatl realmente no tiene otro publico que los editores mismos Maunus 09:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Maunus, muchas gracias de cualquier manera por tu respuesta, creo que este problema es de muy dificil solucion y sobre todo va mas haya de los wikipedistas, la razon de la que en este momento se estén mesclando ambas ortografía es por un conflicto estre usuairo, oringinalmente había consenso en utilizar la ortografía clasica, por lo que se procedió a hacer el cambio de nombre a Huiquipedia, posteriormente surgipo el conflicto de la ortografía y dos usuarios se enfrentaron realizando cada quien artículos con clasica y moderna (por esto la mescla) ante esto es que hemos buscado concensuar sin lograr algun resultado aún, como tu dices lo que a mi en particular mas me preocupo es la invencion de palabras que se ha dado, pues los usuarios nos hemos convertido casi en reguladores del idioma, yo nunca he inventado palabras sino que me he basado en vobularios y traductores, sin embargo creo que este problema sera de dificil solucion, de cualquier manera muchas gracias y saludos. --Battroid 21:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Macuil-Tochtli
Say, Maunus, I think you know a bit more about Nahuatl language and culture than I, could you comment on the veracity of the above article? Thanks!! Tubezone 22:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Endangered South American languages
Hello,

Am starting a table for list of endangered languages, based on the UNESCO Red Book. Of course many things need to be done; but would like initial comments:

User:Ling.Nut/ELSA

Thanks, --Ling.Nut 00:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It is a very good idea, I will take a more thorough look at a later time. At first glance i can see that you have lned the "nahua language" of Peru to "Nahuatl language" these are two different and unrelated languages. Nahua of Peru is a Panoan language which also called "Yora" or "Yoranahua" its ISO code is mtl. I will take a more detailed look later.Maunus 11:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I will incorporate your info into the table as time goes on. In fact, feel free to add/change anything you like, any time you like.
 * Cheers --Ling.Nut 13:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ahah, you totally threw me. Look at your ISO code; there's a typo switching "mtl" for "mts." I didn't click your link, but read the text instead, which sent me to Nigeria! :-) I'll use the name "Yora," following Ethnologue.
 * Cheers! --Ling.Nut 00:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * PS someone made a redirect from "Nahua" to Nahuatl;" that's why they are linked. As you said they are unrelated. I will request the redir be deleted.--Ling.Nut 00:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Better yet build a disambiguation page on nahua, nahua is also the name of the people who speaks nahua and they have their own page too.Maunus 17:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Help needed (again)
Hi Maunus. As a not very experienced Wikipedian I am concerned that the discussion/argument with Sugaar on the Talk:Polysynthetic language page is getting out of hand. I'd appreciate your advice (as a disinterested third party) as to what to do at this stage in terms of etiquette. I don't want to get into a scuffle with this guy, but it looks like we're dangerously close. Any suggestions welcome! --A R King 16:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again with this, but I am having a lot of trouble with this Sugaar, and I would appreciate having somebody in the background listening to what is going on here. (Whether you choose to intervene I leave entirely up to you.) I just don't know what to do with the guy. So I have tried something new: addressing him directly on the issue on his talk page. I think I have a serious problem because I have spent the past month working on an article on Basque grammar (in my "grammar series", so to speak) - it isn't finished yet, but it's getting there. I already told Sugaar I planned to post it when he approached me with his Basque project/portal proposal last month. But judging from his behaviour in response to everything else I do relating to Basque, I'm afraid he is going to give me such a run for my money (no matter what is in the article; for him I think it's just a game) that I am seriously considering not bothering to post the article rather than subject myself to that. For this reason, my policy so far of answering him back rather than ignoring him had a purpose, since I thought it would be preferable to bring his "problem" to a head first, and try to reach an understanding or "peace treaty" of some kind. But quite honestly, if that doesn't happen I will probably withdraw my participation on Wikipedia on Basque matters (that still leaves me with plenty to do!), rather than let myself get dragged down any further into this. Any suggestions? --A R King 08:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I am afraid that editing here do more often is often a greater challenge to ones social skills than to ones scholarly skills. From what I am reading Sugaar is not among the worst he is simply critical and demands sources putting his own sources above anyones word - that is in itself not a bad thing - even if it is obnoxious. But it does mean that dealing with him will take more efforts from your side because he seem to question everything and will dmand explanations and sources and references for every claim you make (even as simple as dialect areas and basic vocabulary it seems) as well as edit the article. You will have to weigh it out with yourself if you have energy both to teach him and write the article or if it's not worth it. My guess is that it is worth it because you have a lot to contribute - of course I wouldn't mind personally if you dedicated yourself fully to native american languages - but I think the basque area would lose a valuable contributor. It is a sad truth but also a necessary drawback of the wikipedia system that being an expert here is difficult - one cannot expect any respect for the knowledge that one has and there will always be people who put ones patience to the test. What I do myself when I feel the patince wearing out is that I turn to other uncontroversial topics for awhile and come back with replenished energies to the field of battle at a later time. Maunus 09:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Maunus: Re my post earlier today, it looks like things may have calmed down for now (but time will tell). So the crisis may be past (let's hope so). Cheers, Alan --A R King 09:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your words of advice above (which I failed to see yesterday). I assure you it is not my intention to abandon native America on Wikipedia. But my wider interests include a concern about practical models of (as opposed to theoretical frameworks of) grammatical description; this has interested me for a long time and I think it is of great potential interest to Wikipedia too (as long as there is a place in Wikipedia for such grammatical sketches as the ones I have produced for Nawat and Miskito; apparently there is!). I think I have a lot of experience and some demonstrated talent in the actual production of such descriptions, and would be very happy to exploit these in order to provide Wikipedia with useful descriptions of languages for which such are lacking. Since I have delved about in various areas of the world over the years (sometimes only within the confines of my library, I admit) I am able to do this over a rather diverse range of languages (typologically as well as geographically), which I think is better for the purpose of developing a more broadly applicable descriptive model, and also ultimately more instructive for individual descriptions, of course. But it seemed a shame not to turn my attention to Basque, as the language I can describe with more authority than most. (The descriptions I can offer will not necessarily be "authoritative" or even 100% accurate, but I believe they will be good initial structures amenable to subsequent improvement and refinement through the collaboration of present or future editors.) However, I'm finding the Basque sketch tougher going than the others. This may really be because I "know too much", though I try to override that factor and it feels more like the problem is that Basque is just more complicated. Hopefully I'll have finished it by around Christmas.

One further remark. I am not very much given to making announcements about such grandiose schemes ahead of time in case things don't work out that way in the end (or I just get bored and change my mind!). This is just a private confession of an idea I have conceived, which may help to make sense of some of the things you see me doing over coming months (hopefully). Your suggestions and input are welcome, and your support greatly appreciated. Alan --A R King 11:10, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Renaming survey
Hi,

You may wanna see this: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Renaming survey.

BTW, I liked your contribs to the Indigenous peoples discussion.

--Ling.Nut 17:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)