User:Merbabu/Archive12

Picture of the Week
&mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Brunei
As per WikiProject Countries: The title I placed is perfectly acceptable - because not only does it have the first level, but the second (or third) enhances the title/article. If you are questioning the use of 'mukim' - that is a perfectly acceptable term. Thanks! Rarelibra 12:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * (Subdivisions) - Quick overview of the administrative subdivisions of the country. Name the section after the first level of subdivisions (e.g. provinces, states, departments, etc.) and give the English name. Link to "(subdivisions) of X".

Elections in Indonesia
Hi there. Some time ago, Nigelfong added a POV tag to my edits the Elections in Indonesia article. I then edited it to try and address his concerns. I sent him a message asking if he thought the tag could be removed, but he didn't respond. Could you possibly take a look and see if in your opinion it can be removed from the Elections under the New Order (1977-1997) section so the article looks tidier? Obviously it needs to be someone else who makes the call. Thanks. Davidelit 15:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Tomorrow is fine. There's no hurry. Mimpi indah :-) Davidelit 15:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

"Racism" aginst the Malays
hi merbabu, what do you think about earth?Sghan 04:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hhmmm - well, I don't agree with some of his editing opinions on Anti-Malay racism and its talk page. --Merbabu 04:54, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

are you malay merbabu?Sghan 14:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * no. --Merbabu 14:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Image talk:LocationIndonesia.svg
Hello Merbabu. I hadn't known that images on commons should be tagged for a wiki project. Are you sure you tagged the right page? Maybe I'm wrong but I've never seen something similar before, so I decided to ask :) Regards --Oxymoron83 07:21, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah ok, that was the reason. But i tagged the talk page for speedy deletion, not the image itself. And as the image is saved on commons, en.wikipedia admins aren't able to delete the image (they also wouldn't do if it has been uploaded here) :)--Oxymoron83 07:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

hello
I'm hope everything is okay between us. I was just interested in recording and have not personal ill will against you. I apologize for being harsh earlier. __earth (Talk) 08:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * no problems. I don't know about 'harsh'. I've seen a lot worse, and I mean a lot harsher. Clearly we have "editorial differences" but i hold no grudge. :) --Merbabu 08:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Chinese Egret
I've expanded this article using the reference given. Hopefully this answers your question. Cheers. Smallweed 08:56, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

u2 wikiproject
i havent heard from you in a long time. how is the assessment dept. going?? as you may have noticed we have set of a collab. of the fortnight dept. Smithcool 19:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Garuda Indonesia crash Bombay.
Please refer www.planecrashinfo.com/Airline/AL%20F-G.htm Thanks for the query. Also, I am witness to the said incident(not the actual crash, but have seen the aircraft as it was there at the site for several months after the accident). There were also talks of converting the airplane into a restaurant as it was relatively unharmed, but for some legal reasons, did not materialize. Thank you. S. Pujari, U.S.A.

Toraja edits
Hi, I need your expertise of native English grammar. I saw long message by somebody who made recent edits in Toraja. Most of his/her complaints are about the grammar. I noticed he made different grammar style we'd discussed in his/her edits, e.g. Toraja & Torajan, using article "the" for tongkonan and Toraja, etc. I don't know which one is the correct one as I'm troubled with this issue myself. Could you please, if you have spare time, to check his/her edits? Thanks. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 23:53, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'm actually at work, and I'm actually really busy - i will try later today. --Merbabu 00:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. He/she seems to be persistent on his/her edit, but since it's grammar (not content) then I can't really push myself, because I'm sure I'm not the expert on that. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I made a few changes, however, I am satisfied with the rest of the copy edit, although it not necessarily how I would have expressed everything. But, that is just my opinion. :) --Merbabu 13:53, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

groan
Not yet, the way things are working with the probation conditions placed on TwentyYears and Auroranorth I think even Mrlob could be managed into being a contributor and get away from the puppet show, I made some suggestion on that talk page. If he's genuine he'll start to consider things. Gnangarra 14:22, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I am starting to comsider things, as I allready did. But I was on a three week break, and my IP-adress was blocked for 1 month. No that block has evaded, I can talk again, and do good things again. First, I wanted to make apolagies to some editors. You included. And I wanted to explain some things to those willing to listen to my side of the story. 84.87.138.105 16:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

About the sockpuppets
It would be nice to have a check user identify all these socks, so we can roll them back immediately per WP:SOCK and WP:BAN. Stop wasting everyone's time with sock puppetry and hoax articles. --Merbabu 13:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I shall. But you must have noticed, I actually have quite a lot non/hoax articles around here, created with several socks. Besides the many bad ones, of course...

A good starting point is to list all the sock accounts you have used or created. From there apologies to the editors who showed good faith in you only to be let done by yet another sock. From there we can talk about what further actions/conditions are needed to be in place and from when restoring editing privileges could be considered. At the moment there isnt any offer for unblocking its only a thought on what could take place, any decision would need to support within the wider community Gnangarra 14:14, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I can make that list, but I think you've allready got it. All the known "sockpuppets of Mrlob", are mine, since Mrlob was my first account on the English wikipedia, besides my IP-adress; the one on which I am currently editing. Note that I was also active on the Dutch, French, Frisian and Simple English wikipedia's. On all those, I have only one account, and no vandalism has been done there, at all. Except for the Dutch wikipedia, on which mine and also Kermanshahi's accounts have been banned indefinetely. There is a link on Kermanshahi's user-page, to a Dutch account called "Kermansjahi", with a "j". My own accounts there are called Sirlob, BozeJoop (Angry Jope), and OLOL. You might contact some Dutch admins on the Dutch wikipedia; most of them speak excellent English. You know all my accounts on this wikipedia; you might check out the accounts there, if you'd really like to solve this matter. At first, I tried to cover up Kermanshahi, but I now realised that is nonsense; he is more involved with sockpuppetry and vandalism then you might know. Truth is, I and Kermanshahi know each othert in real; we are students, and both live in the Netherlands. That might explain my edits on wikipedia; they are mostly to Dutch and Frisian related articles; (I'm partly Dutch, partly Frisian). Kermanshahi, on the other hand, is originally an Iranian. He has done some good things on wikipedia, and made 2900 edits, as he claims. But my Hagawaga-Oegawaga account also made 2000+ edits on here, and created three B-class articles, of which one, Dorus Rijkers, became a DYK-article. From on this IP-adress, I tried to unblock that account, on which I have much good edits. Because H.O was my fresh start, after a lot of socks. And when he was blocked, due the effords of User:Roland'91 and User:Blowland (another man I know in real), I was very angry, and tried to unblock myself. I failed, and my talk-page got blocked, and later deleted, which I still greatly feel angry about. My user-page, on which I did much effords to make it that nice, was deleted, and couldn't restore it, sadly (it was very nice, that page, and Phaedriel even gave me a star for it). Well, than there was the Murlock account, which told things on me which had me and both the vandals blocked; he was also someone I know. Many of his edits were made from this IP-adress, and I did them, because again, I had a fight with him in real life, and I knew his password, on which I took disadvantage (how mean of me to do so). But when you would take a closer look at a check-user and its results on him, you'll see that the accusations he mentioned on mem, were done from a different IP-adress, on which I never edited, as far as I know. On the same adress, the account was created. So, accept from Blowland, Roland'91 and Murlock, all the accounts known as socks of Mrlob, are indeed socks of Mrlob. As you now know, the whole story is more complex than you might have known. Kermanshahi, well, he just tried to save his own ass, but he also is a sockpuppeteer, probabaly. I don't know which accounts are his, but on the Dutch wiki, his account has allready been blocked indefenitely. Again, I think you might find it usefull to ask around on the Dutch wikipedia. The administators there also mostly have accounts on this wikipedia; you can contact them there if you'd like. I can't ask them myself, because this IP-adress has been blocked there, and so are all my accounts and Kermanshahi\Kermansjahi's overthere. Consider take a look at Kermanshahi's user-page, and click the link to dutch wiki; you'll then see he's blocked there for sockpupettery; (or "Sokpopperij", in Dutch!). Is that enough explanation for know? I hope this is usefull to you, for now. 84.87.138.105 16:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Red Alert !!
Wikipedia:Featured portal removal candidates/Portal:Indonesia &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 07:40, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I can help you to make selected article & biography avoiding redlinks, i.e. by pooling first several articles in advance and let the portal automatically use the current week to link to the article. I think I have told you before. If you like my idea (you can see how the selected pictures works), then let me know. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 11:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I think the way that the current selected article & bio appears in Portal is not automatic. You need to click the redlink and copy paste from the summary article, because you created ST_SA/SA_... articles. If you create directly articles with the name: ", " under Portal:Indonesia/AOTW/ subpage, then they will automatically appear every week. See for instances, Portal:Indonesia/Featured picture/2007. There are 2 not-yet-appeared pictures at the end of the subpage and they will appear automatically next week & two-weeks later. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:03, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes of course, but you know what the nicest thing is that you can do N * 90% of the works in advance and get lazy for N weeks. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 15:53, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Smells of the wali sanga arguments
The oz schools - 9 - very dubious - I'd like to see the specific page numbers and cites refs to believe that crap - there is porbably another set (like the wali sanga arguments i have seen) SatuSuro 11:16, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * ok just checked the contribs history - i say It needs the treatment - prod/delete/kick whatever SatuSuro 11:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Virgin Prunes
As you seem to be a U2 fan, I suggest you to have a look at this:

http://www.virginprunes.com/about/u2_connection.html

"It’s almost as though U2 and the Virgin Prunes were two sides of the same coin, with the coin itself (or “meta-group”, if you’d like a more intellectual and less laboured comparison) being the Lypton Village."

Regards

Pierre-Louis Lamballais / pl.lamballais@flashover.fr

Talk:Australia
Hi Merbabu, I think that Dcashm was editing his/her own comments made while not logged in, evidenced by them logging in in order to edit the main page within minutes of the comment. I have no idea why he/she has such a strange signature though (Righter than rain). Cheers, WikiTownsvillian 09:42, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You're probably correct. What bugged me most was him editing the comments. I will reply though - tell them to look further down and to watch their WP:CIVIL. :) --Merbabu 09:45, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

You
I'm taking a really long wikibreak because of users like you! CRBR 16:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm - i think I will take that as a compliment. --Merbabu 14:26, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

u2 wikiproject
do you know who made the FA noms?? Smithcool 16:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Building of the World Trade Center
Hello, You appear to have taken part in a vote to move Building of the World Trade Center. A new poll is in progress and your vote is appreciated!

Thanks Reginmund 04:52, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

União Nacional dos Escuteiros de Timor Leste
Can you help render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Tetum, for that article? Thanks! Chris 06:40, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry - I don't speak Tetum - just English (first language), Indonesian (thus a bit of Malay), German, and a smattering of Fijian. --Merbabu 10:32, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Indonesia & main page
Congratulations too, mas :-) Merdeka!! :D &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 08:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, Indonesia was a group effort - but Toraja was 99% solo effort on your part. --Merbabu 13:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, the summary is not good enough. Listing neighbouring countries does not summarize the country itself. It's just like a geography lesson. :-) We should ask admin to change that by giving an alternative summary. I believe only admin (Raul ?) can edit that page. And I agree 100% to mention 17th August as the national independence day so to notify the correspondence of the main page day. Could you make the alternative summary? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 07:44, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Coenraad van Beuningen
Did you remove Coenraad van Beuningen from the "See also" section of the Dutch East Indies Company article? If so, I wonder why? It's not that I'm particularly interested in this odd character -- rather, I'm guessing that your response will help clarify my appreciation of this "See also" category. In other words: If I had somehow stumbled across the article about this fellow, I myself might have taken the time to add his name as a "See also" link because his seems such a curious change-of-pace from the dry biographies of his VOC peers. In my view, perhaps that dash of colour would have been justification enough ...? Maybe this flimsy rationale is sufficient to restore sad, dour Coenraad's link? Ooperhoofd 12:57, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I reverted a few problems (as I saw it) in one hit. The 'see also' listing of van Beuningenwas was perhaps not the worst of those issues. But, in my opinion, a 'See Also' can be problematic stemming from lazyness. Ie, if it is not relevant enough to actually work the other subject into the article (ie, van Beuningenwas into Dutch East Indies Company), then why should we put him into a 'See Also'. Remember, a link should only go into the 'See Also' if it is not in the actual article - which does question why we have See Also'. If it is not important enough to go into the article, why is it important enough to put it into the 'See Also'. Does that help? kind regards  --Merbabu 13:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi!
Hi! I'm neweco and have just edited "Water buffalo" page. I think all information I added's right. If you know Vietnamese language, you can read this:

http://www.hanoimoi.com.vn/vn/18/74448 : it's about old name of West Lake, Hà Nội.

trâu

Some web pages're about this in English:

http://www.limsi.fr/Individu/dang/webvn/ebuffle.htm

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~jratree/2003-3.htm : about role of buffalo in Vietnam's agriculture.

http://www.vnstyle.vdc.com.vn/mycollection/myths_legends/trauvang.htm :about the legend of Golden Buffalo Lake.

http://www.hellohanoi.org/en/detail.asp?iData=486&show=news :about bronze industry in old Vietnam and Không Lộ with his story.

West Lake and Không Lộ zen master are famous in Vietnam and I think putting informations about them is resonable.

http://www.honque.com/HQ001/ld001a.htm : about a girl who translates some traditional Vietnamese poem including poem with 2 sentences: "Bao giờ cây lúa còn bông- Thì còn ngọn cỏ ngoài đồng trâu ăn".

I hope you will read and then understand the important role of water buffalo in Vietnam's agriculture and culture.

Best wishes,

Yoiks
Is it just me, or do you ever get the feeling that the more Indonesian articles you write, the more you realise there is so much more to do?! And I see that Overthrow of Sukarno has picked up a tag asking for better referencing, and there are so many Indonesian notables who are only at the stub article stage. Right now I have a 'to-do' list as long as my arm! MERDEKA! Davidelit 15:36, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I know – there is so much to do. My problem is I have such a huge watch list now, that I spend 30mins a day checking it – longer if I miss a day. So I only review now, not ‘build’ as much as I’d like.


 * Yup – it was probably me that slapped that tag on the Overthrow of Sukarno. I want to re-write it (and about another 10 articles) and good referencing is fundamental in my opinion. Wikipedia is often criticised as being unreliable – surely thorough and reliable referencing is thus the key to solving that. Looking at those references in the article, I think they only cover a small part of the article. Slapping a dated reference tag means in say 2 months, when I remove unreferenced material, no one has an excuse. :) Sometimes it is better to be bold. One can slap on a tag or a, wait 6 months and have no action. Then one removes the info, and voila!, more often than not, it is back fast with a reference.


 * Anyway, keep up your good work. Millions can see it (and sometimes they do see it). --Merbabu 22:36, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree about the Overthrow of Sukarno article. I think there should be a separate article for the G30S, with perhaps less about the Konfrontasi and more discussion about the 30 September, especially given the wealth of books written about it in the last few years. Soebandrio, Abdul Latief and Omar Dani have written (or had ghost written) books about their roles, while many of the bit players have given their two-cent's worth. And there is the new book by John Roosa that provides a very plausible and comprehensive account of events. Incidentally the article has no mention of the events in Central Java. Hmmm. Perhaps I will put something together.... Regards  Davidelit 16:35, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * For a re-write of the 'overthrow' article, go for it. I think getting that main article in good condition is a priority before any new articles (but create them if you a certain they're needed). My suggestion would be to first strip out what is not referenced, and start again. I suspect not much is referenced! There's a few newspapers listed from memory. Better to have less quality info, than lots of rubbish. I am fascinated by that time and I will try to help with my refs, but no promises. cheers --Merbabu 16:39, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Indonesia and U2
Congatulations on the Indonesia thing! I am working on the U2 portal and was wondering if you could help/give suggestions; I would really appreciate it! (You don't have to.) Thanks and congratulations, Ne ra n e i   (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd love to help - but you know wikipedia, too many things to do, too little time. Hopefully I can, but no promises. One suggestion, you have a feature biography and article. Do we really have that many biographies? Maybe just combine them into one section. I rotate the articles and biographies on the Indonesia portal every fortnight. --Merbabu 16:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea. Thanks! You have done great work with both the Indonesia and U2 articles. Congratulations! :-) Ne ra n e i  (talk) 16:15, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for doing the article thing. I appreciate it! Ne ra n e i   (talk) 19:31, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I was just looking at the selected things, and was wondering if you could explain how it works. I'm a bit confused. Thank you again! Ne ra n e i   (talk) 21:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure - give me a day or so as I'm tied up right now. But it is not as hard as it may look, and there may be another way. --Merbabu 22:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much! Ne ra n e i   (talk) 22:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Flag of Indonesia
Please explain why you have reverted this accurate, relevant, appropriate and fully-referenced edit? 212.71.37.97 09:31, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Each section of this article has been carefully scrutinised over 18months by many editors. Every section carefully considered. See this as well. Why do you think you can just add yours immediately without such scrutiny? Doesn't need a whole section and is irrelevant. And don't call things vandalism simply cos you don't like it. I've done about 500 edits on that article since last year - do you think I'm going to vandalise it the day it gets to main page? --Merbabu 09:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Indonesia Portal
May I humbly ask why you undid the recent changes to Indonesia Portal? Based on the code change I withdrew my earlier nomination of this portal to be de-featured. I am going to revert that as well. Arman Aziz 04:54, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Why did you change it in the first place? Without explanation either. A portal is not something anyone just changes when they feel like it. Why not ask first? Anyway, we've already had Jakarta and there is a list of pre-programmed articles. If you really want to see a particular article, then ask. As for your withdrawal followed by your unwithdrawal, I don't know what you are on about - maybe relax a little and think before you act without dummy spits. --Merbabu 05:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * PS, if the fix is as simple as a code fix (as you are suggesting), then why not fix it first instead of nominating for removal (particularly when you are nominating to have your own portal as Feature)? --Merbabu 05:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Mini project
With enough pictures and sources, how about another mainpage day for the 10th of November? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, do you mean we put it there now, or we make the article better, and then put it there? There is a good book at Macquarie Uni - The British Occupation of Indonesia - that has about 20 pages just on Surabaya. But I no longer have 'my connections' there, so I can't borrow it. Amazon lists it at US$175. I will try to get it at another library. But i think it is rare. --Merbabu 10:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehe, of course we should make the article featured first, and then put it on the mainpage. :-) I'll try what I can do to find other sources, but it's a nice little article about the battle and 10 Nov is a feasible date to improve it. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:32, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh - i thought you mean Indo Portal. yeah, but 10 Nov is tight time frame for FAC. But, we can try. --Merbabu 11:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * From memory there are more indonesian language sources than there are english language - best of luck with it - I am not 100% where or how I can help but its a very good idea - SatuSuro 12:37, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * BTW please email me the detail of the book i probably can get it at a uni here - let me know :| SatuSuro 12:38, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, I have a massive Indonesian book called 10 November '45: Gelora Kepahlawanan Indonesia that I could wade through and contribute some bits. I may also be going to Surabaya on business next months, so I'll try and take some photos. Incidentally, we are going to have to be very careful to avoid accusations of bias. Even the current page has the picture caption "Scene of the battle in Surabaya where Mallaby was murdered (sorry Indon). At the time, one side called the Indonesians heroes, but to the other they were terrorists, and there is the emotive question of whether Mallaby was killed in breach of a ceasefire. Davidelit 14:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem, Davidelit. :-) Please take a lot of pics while you're there (now sorry, Merbabu :-). &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Reid book i used for the Indonesian National Revolution has some good info - not too much. Yeah, i think 'murdered' should be changed to killed. That will be an interesting topic - maybe I can create a Mallaby article - if someone doesn't beat me to it. :-)  --Merbabu 14:47, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Pendopo
Hi Merbabu, I am a very active Wikipedia writer myself, in its French version though, and mainly on anything related to Indonesia, my country of origin. Would you mind my translating (part of) your article to put it in the French Wikipedia? Anda (anda@djoehana.net) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djoehana (talk • contribs) 03:34, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd love to - but I don't speak French. German or Indonesian is possible though. Good to see that people actually read the article though. Merbabu 04:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Short-Tailed Paradigalla
Unfortunately, the ref (Firefly Encyclopedia of Birds) only says one of the species and does not specify, but I think it is the short-tailed because Answers.com says that it is. Though they usually use Wikipedia text, this article was not. Its text was from Grzimek's Animal Life Encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frankyboy5 (talk • contribs) 06:47, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Template:History of Indonesia
Oh dear, what an embarrassing typo... Thanks. Davidelit 10:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not at all. Some long-needed changes. It's good to be bold. --Merbabu 11:54, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Liberal Democracy Era in Indonesia (1950-1957)
I see you've made a start :-) Ricklefs should do for a reference for the return to UUD45 - see President Sukarno's 1959 Decree. By the way, I've never got the hang of those fancy numbered references! I must go now - I'm being nagged to give somebody else a go on the computer. Regards Davidelit 12:26, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah - sorry to get the jump on you - feel free to change anything. I'm not really giving much attention to planning a structure, and have taken an organic scatter brain approach. I feel as long as I keep it referenced, it will sort itself out eventually. --Merbabu 12:30, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I was going to tackle it next weekend. I'm reading Feiths's The Decline of Constitutional Democracy at the moment, but I'm only up to 1955! Thanks for the Barnstar - much appreciated. Davidelit 14:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * By the way, have you noticed that I seem to be incapable of writing edit summaries free of spelling errors. Please don't tell anybody I'm an English teacher! Davidelit 15:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Liberal Democracy Era in Indonesia (1950-1957) II
By the way, I assume the timeline is a temporary feature to guide you or others through the writing of the article. The subheadings I had in mind were pretty much the same as your timeline points, with some extra info about the rise and fall of the cabinets and the runup to the state of emergency. Also, the Permesta article needs work, and as I type, I am working on the PRRI article, much of which seems to be written in the present tense! Regards Davidelit 16:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Re timeline - you are correct. It was just a guide to get soemthing in there. I put a hidden comment there to that effect. Also, re the Lonely Planet reference, that doesn't have to be permanent either - again, it was just a temp stop-gap measure – I just paraphrased it as it was such a short and succinct summary – whereas my other books are quite long and detailed. Feel free to replace as the article expands. --Merbabu 22:40, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

gmail
Needs a check - and I might be on and off - maybe tonight - uncertain when though SatuSuro 09:25, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

The Revisions you deleted of Majapahit.
The Revisions I just added are from facts derived from folklore. Meticulously detailed as such there are no detailed recorded history. It's judged on your own conscience that you perhaps just deleted a piece of painstakingly recorded history.
 * OK, assuming that is the case, 'folklore' can indeed have a place in wikipedia, as long as it is (a) notable, (b) published by a reliable source, and (c) is presented as folklore. Is this the case? --Merbabu 14:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Immigration Detention
Nice work cleaning up the page but why delete 'deaths in detention' and Ukraine sections? I've reverted the deletions for now. Paki.tv 00:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Because it is unreferenced. If it is really notable, I am sure a reference isn't hard to find. --Merbabu 00:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

References in the lead section (your edit summary re John Howard)
Per Wp:lead I don't believe there is a problem having references in the lead. This is a topic I am still trying to learn about. Is there anything you think still needs fixing in the lead of John Howard? EdJohnston 01:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Admittedly it is not so clear cut - editors' opinions vary. And, it is more a stylistic thing. I will find some other editors who feel strongly about this, and ask them why. Firstly though, the lead should not contain information that is not in the main prose, including any references - i think we can agree on that for starters. I am fixing the John Howard article now for this issue. Then, that leads us to the question of whether we need those cites for the lead if they are already in the main prose. I played major role in the FAC for Indonesia and that article had many refs in the lead. It was requested in the FAC that we remove all cites from the lead - this highlighted the fact that much info in the lead wasn't actually in the main prose. Now, all info in Indonesia's lead, including cites, is in the prose. I will let you know as I go. --Merbabu 02:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * PS, looking at the Howard article, none of the in-line cites actually refer to any contentious info. Just facts, dates, etc. Also, no cites in the lead is just a mindset - when it was first suggested for Indonesia, I was opposed - now it makes perfect sense to me. --Merbabu 02:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Permesta categorization
It's a difficult call. The argument for putting it in Category:Liberal Democracy Era in Indonesia (1950-1957) is that it started at this time, and was partly responsible for the declaration of emergency that ended liberal democracy. On the other hand, events such as the shooting down of Allen Pope as well as the eventual defeat of the rebellion make it more suitable for Category:Guided Democracy Era (Indonesia). On balance, is it a cop-out to put it in both? If you must choose one, I'd go for Category:Guided Democracy Era (Indonesia). Regards Davidelit 05:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * OK - i'll go with the latter. it's no big deal i guess. --Merbabu 05:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Just a note
Wohooo, your name pops up a lot in my watchlist. Good work, man! &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 07:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * yeah same here - when are we going to have a shift from overthrow to transition ? SatuSuro 11:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Transition to the New Order
Hi. As you may have spotted, I rewrote the intro in the light of the name change (it was in any case an odd hangover of the "Indonesian Civil War" era). I also went through the article eliminating "civil war". You may like to glance through it and see if any of its does not read well. Given the article is a bit too long, how about creating an article called the 30 September Movement and cutting and pasting the relevant content from Transition to the New Order, leaving only a summary? This would be a short-term fix pending the rewriting of the 30 September Movement page (which now goes to [[Transition to the New Order via two redirects! Regards. Davidelit 13:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup - the lead is heaps better. The old version was hideous, something like "...was the name of a conflict between..." GAHH!! I added a short sentence and tweaked the first paragraph - please wordsmith as you see fit.
 * I fixed the redirect you mentioned, but I do think your idea for a summary (child) article for the Transition article is a good idea. I don't think the Transistion article is overly long, but a separate article is a good idea.
 * We should be careful about not going down one POV line. Ie, don't go down the New Order propaganda line, but don't make it into a CIA-capitalist conspiracy theory either. lol Of course, these POV's must be mentioned. I'm sure you know that.
 * By the way, i just split Dutch Ethical Policy and Indonesian National Revival into two articles. The only reason they were one was because they were essentially the same time frame. --Merbabu 14:00, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Hai Tanahku Papua
Hi, I've just created a page for Hai Tanahku Papua (Oh my land Papua). I've put together what I could find and what I know, and tried to keep it as neutral as possible. I don't really know much about its use or status under the New Order however.

I'd like to keep articles relating to Papuan nationalism as neutral and factual as possible, and would appreciate a look at it, and any adjustments or additions you think are necessary. Cheers! Mostlyharmless 01:27, 31 August 2007 (UTC)