User:Merbabu/Archive13

VOC
Thanks so much for your needed comment about that newest graphic addition to the VOC article.

"Whoa" is a good first word. I must say that I had a similar reaction; but I was disinclined to get involved -- too many other irons in the fire.

In this context, I have a question -- not a suggestion, but really only a question: I wonder if the Indonesia history time-line/chronlogy box would be better moved to another place a little bit farther down in the text. I take it that you will agree that (1) there is a period in which the VOC is only a mercantile adventure: and (2) there is a certain point in time in which the VOC is irrevocably linked with the history of what becomes modern Indonesia. Obviously this graphic needs to stay -- absolutely. But if it were moved down the page, there would be more room for considering the VOC a priori as a mere commercial enterprise which "evolves" ....

In the process of working through this trivial issue of format and image placement, and you would take the lead steps in the diplomatic dance which will eventually arise when, for example, the VOC place in the histories of what will become Brazil or South Africa becomes something which others could be inclined to consider urgent. Do you see my point?

Just a thought, nothing more. I'm personally interested in the VOC in only a tangential way, but a few thoughts did occur ... which I'm now sharing. Hm-m-m-m? --Ooperhoofd 02:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I can see some (all?) of your points. There is a good argument to separate out the reporting of the VOC as an entity, and the reporting of that period of Indonesian history where the VOC played a big role. How that is done is up for the debate - separate articles, one article separate sections, or other? Currently, the two sometimes opposing ideas (VOC vs. period of Indonesian history) are lumped into together. If they were separate articles - for example - this lack of direction and tension in the article would be removed. Ie, there is more info that I would like to add (one day) about Indonesia during this time, in which the VOC is sometimes central, and other times it is not.
 * Thanks for bringing this up. It needs more thought. Can we move it to the Dutch East India Company talk page? --Merbabu 02:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

"Malay race"
Hello Merbabu, I have responded to your comment in Talk:Malays (ethnic group). I want to add that basically, the problem is about what makes "ethnicity". I suspect it can easily be confused with "identity", something that tends to be subjective and ideological. Language at least is a clear criterium but of course I admit it is somewhat restrictive, Anda Djoehana 08:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Cheers
Thanks for the word of encouragement. I must extend my congratulations to you for driving the Indonesia article to great heights of quality. Prester John -(Talk to the Hand) 04:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

on Bali
LOL, I got warning of vandalism. :-)) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 07:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note--no time to reply
Dear Merbabu, Thanks for the note. I really appreciate the connection. I've got heaps to say in reply, but no time to do so. Suffice for now to say thanks. Peace, --Dylanfly 17:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Still little time to write, but... Without enumerating the differences so far, I think some of them boil down to a disagreement about neutrality and POV. My personal feeling is that you've represented your own position as objective, while characterizing me as an ideologue.  Maybe you didn't intend to portray me in this light, but your use of words like "emotive" "rant" and "NPOV" toward me could serve to give that impression.  I think we could find a lot of common ground on that topic--you'd be surprised how often I edit out unreferenced stuff that I'm sympathetic to (e.g. my deletion of ABRI's alleged raping of 'little Chinese girls'; I've got no love for ABRI, but let's see the evidence on that one).  From your contributions (which, by the way, are substantial, substantive, and invaluable to the Indonesian articles) I infer that you are somewhat more friendly to the position of the Washington Consensus and positivism than I am.  In principle, I generally agree with WP:NPOV, but with a huge grain of salt.  Everything's ideological: ain't no way out.  That said, if I go on WP to read about John Howard (whom I dislike), I expect a pretty balanced representation, with contribs from people of all stripes and spots.


 * Ditto for Indonesia. But right now, I look at the article and see a World Bank document, a CIA FACTBOOK piece; an article that the Indonesian oligarchy could be happy with. It speaks glowingly of structural adjustment--hardly an NPOV position. Does the article accurately inform the reader about the basics of Indonesia?  Overall, I'd say the article gives a saccharine, sanguine take on Indonesia, one which prioritizes the superficial edifice over the structural content.  That in no way is meant to insult the people who have dedicated time and effort to the page (though I realize it might sound insulting), but rather is to highlight that the normative representation of Indonesia is not objective. Rather, it is the hard-won POV of American post-WWII hegemony.


 * Anyway, I'd ask that you trust in me and in my erudition, and trust that I don't work for a politburo. If my role on WP:Indonesia is limited to that of a gadfly, so be it.     In the end, I'd also ask to to examine your own sense of objectivity--it's an intellectually problematic posture to assume, no matter how worthy the goal.  Thanks again for the dialogue, --Dylanfly 17:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Looking at what the CIA, World Bank references are specifically referencing we see Indonesian land area, population density, major Indonesian exports, composition of the economy, economic growth rates, that the rupiah crashed in 1997 and the economy shrunk 13%, that the Javanese are the dominant ethnic group, that approx. 86% of Indonesians declare themselves to be Muslims, and that about 1 in 2 Indonesians survive on less than $2/day. Isn't this info all (a) "basic" to an understand of Indonesia, (b) accurate, and (c) appropriately sourced? If not, how is it not?
 * As for your comments about the article being a "saccharine sanguine", "superficial" article that you imply misses the "basics of Indonesia", this is (a) way too general a comment (yes, I'm tempted to say 'rant') and (b) is similar to your previous comments on Talk:Indonesia over the last month or two. What specifically do you suggest that hasn't already been said? And, it would be better to put it on Talk:Indonesia. --Merbabu 10:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Orangutan
Got to say I have some concerns too. --Michael Johnson 00:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Selected biography
I just saw today our weekly's biography. I didn't know you're fan of her. :-) Nice one for variety of biographies. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 09:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * ha ha ha - I just think the Indonesia portal should show as much diversity as possible, just like Indonesia itself - we should list complex revolutionary leaders, religious leaders, influential writers, and yes, gyrating pop starlets. --Merbabu 10:21, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * PS, you've been damn busy on the project in the last day - your name is smeared all over my watchlist. ha ha. We have Friday as a special public holiday - APEC meeting. What will they wear on the last day? --Merbabu 10:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool, remind me of APEC in Jakarta and I lived in Bandung. It was three days of holidays that thousands of Jakarta residents flocked into Bandung and created a traffic havoc that I'd to walk kilometers from my school to home. Yeah it's difficult to find Australian dresses, but I wonder if they choose beach suit. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Just read up on a very very strange phenomenon in australia called 'the chasers war' - it might explain apec - and you might find it as hard to comprehend as the average australian might find understanding the descriptions of the taste of rambutan or durian written by an american tourist :| SatuSuro 10:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Re:Jakarta
Thank you for the information! I will see what I can do. Meursault2004 17:49, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

U2 copyedit complete
U2 has now undergone a complete copyedit and proofread by the WP:LoCE. Thanks! Galena11 18:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

ENGVAR
Yeah, I don't change if I know something is that case. My browser has automatic spell check in it, so sometimes things get changed because I don't know that it's just a non-US spelling. I actually think there's probably a little bit of weasellyness left in there that I just didn't have the heart to change, but thanks for noticing my "work"! Cheers! Murderbike 03:11, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

John Howard's page???
Who the hell is reverting my additions to the John Howard page??

I thought my inclusions were succinct and informative and allows the users to make up their own minds.

correct me if am wrong LOL

Chazzj 13:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

thanks
..for the welcome and footnotes. I m still learning how everything works here. A. Post-Muller 20:00, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

U2
I haven't done much work on U2 lately, but hoping to change that in the coming weeks. You might want to look at the "Campaigning and activism" section I wrote at R.E.M. (band) for an idea of how to tackle a section like that. WesleyDodds 10:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Discussion on Talk:Indosphere
Dear Merbabu (and friends), if you have thoughts on the Indosphere, there's a discussion on Talk:Indosphere, including a proposal to merge it away. --Smilo Don 03:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

i don't think i've ever visited that article
much less make an edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.107.129.72 (talk) 04:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Asking for suggestion
Hey Merbabu, I'm a newbie here, and I'm dying to start a new page but simply don't know what page to start... I'm also looking for some pages I may be able to edit, can you help me by suggesting any? I found out that u're an experienced user and you might have helped some newbies who had asked this question before... Perhaps you can know me better by taking a look at my userboxes and then figure out which articles are the right one for me to edit/start.

Thank You. ^^ 48th ronin 09:59, 13 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 48th ronin (talk • contribs) 07:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Sumatran Rhinoceros
Regarding the Sumatran Rhinoceros article, that in fact was not a copy and paste job. I wrote those sections for wikipedia in November. When I recently checked up on the article I reilized that beavior, anatomy and habitat (or the bulk of information on this species), for some reason had been deleted so I replaced them. The source you gave  is in fact quoting wikipedia as shown at the top of the page (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The references are already listed at the bottom of the page and have not been removed from the last time I added major contributions to the page. 

VT?! 20:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Ceram Sea
Hi: I noticed your recent edit to Ceram Sea, which I fact-checked. I was wondering if you could direct me to the policy page that explains the change you recommend? Thanks. Jlittlet 03:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Some trivial question
Hey Merbabu, I'm the newbie from yesterday... I want to ask you some seemingly trivial questions which I'm quite curious of:
 * I think I've read somewhere that editing people's comments on your own talk page is not allowed, is it true? If yes, why? Isn't a talk page supposed to be a part of our membership? What if the talk page has gotten too long and you wanna edit it to keep it neat(your own talk page is an apparent example, hehe..)
 * I wanna know if the Wikipedian community have any prejudices towards those whom they find out have an account at Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia each... I think it (uncyclopedia) is quite funny and I wannna contribute to their articles too (due to its ignorance of factual accuracies, that should be easy)

Thanks ^_^ 48th ronin 11:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Agriculture
Let's discuss the issue on the article's talk page, because the article itself cannot be read on my machine with that box there. If the box is a navigation tool, but the reader assumes it will just navigate them to more unreadable information, there's really no point to it. KP Botany 01:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Template:Asia topic
There are full instructions available at Guidelines for "(Continent/region) topic" templates. If there is no article on Terrorism in Asia, then there are several options: write an article, create a disambiguation page, redirect the link to an appropriate article which covers the topic, or introduce a second argument to display an alternative title (e.g. will produce:

If you need any more assistance with using the template, just ask, but please don't make changes which affect a large number of uses without further discussion. Warofdreams talk 00:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Indonesia banner
Sorry for the delayed response. I'm not sure what you would like updated about the template, though I am willing to help if you can be more specific. It should be noted that talk page templates are standardized per WP:TPT. Cheers. --MZMcBride 19:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject U2 membership update
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Maybe
Cuisine of Indonesia's need for more refs would be a more succesful shout - than a list of tv stations and isps at the other c-indonesia article?:)   SatuSuro 06:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've wanted to improve that article for sometime. I have a few good foodie refs, but as a collab, I am afraid that it will just become an even bigger and boring list of Indonesian food (groan). --Merbabu 06:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

We did?
10 things you did not know about Wikipedia - oops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banyumasan_language check out item 3! SatuSuro 09:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * huh? a link? thanks --Merbabu 09:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Timeline of Indonesian History
Hi. I take your point about in-text references to Timeline of Indonesian History. I added the references I used to the list at the bottom, but if you would like those fancy numbers linked to the notes at the bottom, you'll have to wait until I figure out how to do it... In the meantime, I'll refrain from my plans to expand the 1960s section from the same sources :-( Davidelit 17:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ha ha! Nobody's perfect.... Fixed now. By the way, I'm about to be bold with both Transition to the New Order and 30 September Movement. Watch this space. Writing offline as we speak. Davidelit 06:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Mossman's Rebels in Paradise in probably the best reference for the events in Sumatra and beyond. I'll give it a go after Transition to the New Order, 30 September Movement and Timeline of Indonesian History :-) Davidelit 06:50, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

30 September Movement & Transition to the New Order
I have, as promised, made major changes. Please let me know what you think. The Transition to the New Order article needs in-text references (there's no stopping me know I know how to do them!) but my other half is starting to nag me to get off this computer, and I can feel a case of Repetitive strain injury coming on. Incidentally, starting the 30 September Movement article may be asking for trouble, so let's see what happens... Thanks for the in-text refs guide. Davidelit 09:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

HI
HI, IT'S NIKKI.... JUST WANTED TO COMMEND YOU ON YOUR PHOTOS ( ON YOUR USER PAGE.) I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY HAVE BEEN THERE, BUT THIS IS MY 1ST TIME SEEING THEM (AS I HAVE NEVER READ ANY OF THOSE ARTICLES.) NICOLE 22:13, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

:-)
You crack me up. Was just about to revert myself. (Caniago 12:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC))

Contributions to Indonesia Entry
Not trying to horn in on your territory - I like the article and since I love Jakarta and the Indo people I was simply making a contribution.

Just as September 11, 2001 is a most important date, so is October 12, 2002 - both mark significant terror attacks, so spelling out the entire date is not only non-trivial but also desirable. As for describing Indonesia as a "republican democracy," this is accurate - the people of Indonesia do directly elect their own representatives. Former American President Jimmy Carter was in Indonesia in 2004 to supervise the country's first direct election of president, no small matter. Despite Indonesia's problems with corruption it is, nevertheless, a democratically-elected republican form of government. Rome was a republic, so was Iraq under Saddam Hussein, but neither was ever a democracy.

I won't 'argue' about this by engaging in a war over the entries... you may have the last say. But the changes I made were, indeed, legitimate and accurate and in a small way enhanced a fine entry. Good luck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikimuppy (talk • contribs) 15:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I advised you to take this to the article's talk page. I am not the only person you need to convince. --Merbabu 04:14, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

PKI
Hi, thanks for your comment. Yes the source states that 2 million was 3.8% as of a UN report from 1963. --Soman 23:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Nias pics
Hi, I'm happy you like the pic. I should have some more somewhere and will add them in commons within a few weeks, cause now, i have a lot of work to achieve. They were taken during holidays in Nias, more than 10 years ago. Sorry for my very poor english, I'm the most active on fr:wikipedia actually. Regards --Ouicoude 14:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

More Than Willing to Work with the Community
You want to talk? I'm always willing to do that. Hopefully you are, too. Wikimuppy 15:59, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The conversation is at Talk:Indonesia - from memory you were not at all civil. PLease don't post here again. --Merbabu 16:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)