User:Merbabu/Archive19

Indonesian School list
I have thought about it carefully - it is crazy - proyek gila - in Indonesian - I will try to ask all involved for it to be abandoned SatuSuro 14:38, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Mosman, New South Wales
I don't think you should be removing photos from the Mosman article, which illustrate the landmarks in the article. We should be expanding the articles with information and photos, not deleting them. As a guide, I suggest that you take a look at some of the more extensive articles that have been produced for Ashfield, New South Wales and Parramatta, New South Wales. If we had that much information for Mosman, then the photos would not look out of place at all. You seem passionate about this subub, so maybe you can do some research and provide more information so that the Mosman article can come up to the standard of other Sydney suburb articles. Please leave the useful photos in there. Cheers J Bar (talk) 22:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The excessive number of photos are not useful and wikipedia is not an image gallery. That a pic or its subject might be pretty, is not the criteria for inclusion in wikipedia. Also, you will note that the history section is a copy and paste from the Council's site. Futher, it is a good idea to take your own photos and load them into wikipedia - it is a very bad idea to be seen to be forcing less than useful pictures, to the point of overload, when they are you own. --Merbabu (talk) 22:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not excessive at all. It's quite conservative really and quite usual for articles on places: South Yarra, Victoria, Prahran, Victoria. Why are the photos of landmark buildings 'less than useful'? They illustrate information in the article. J Bar (talk) 22:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Landmarks to the suburb possibly, but not wikipedia (at least in most cases, here). There needs to be a link to a section where notability can be clearly established. Eg, there is no notability of the Prince albert terrace. Otherwise, you leave yourself open to the suspicion that you are just trying to showcase your own pretty pics of nicish but non-notable items. But please discuss this on the article talk page from now on. Thanks --Merbabu (talk) 22:59, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

in-line citations...
You need to put page numbers into your inline cites. Here for example. This is particularly the case with the federation book you used which does not contain the info you said it did. thanks --Merbabu (talk) 13:13, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion. I've been trying to do that whenever I can. I am currently editing from a number of locations and do not have the reference material with me at every location. As I revert vandalism and do rewrites, I'm also trying to move my references to the particular information to avoid any information being deleted. Along with a few other people in the Sydney suburbs project, we are attemptiing to add those page numbers from the reference material used. It won't happen overnight butr it will happen. Cheers. J Bar (talk) 13:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, they need to go in at the time. I trust I don't need to point out that you can't add info without a reference, and can you use a reference if you don't have it in front of you? The page numbers need to go in. I hope the rest of your referencing is not like it has been at Mosman. regards --Merbabu (talk) 13:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that was the way it was done mate. As I said, we are going back and rectifying it, to include page numbers. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks. J Bar (talk) 13:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Re-release of U2 albums discussion
Hi Merbabu, there is a discussion on Talk:War (album) about whether to include information on the possible re-releasing of War, October, and Boy that you might be interested in. MelicansMatkin (talk) 18:43, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Suburbs articles
Hi. Have just looked at the debate on the Mosman article. It's true that the suburbs articles generally don't have enough references, but some of us are working on it. It's a slow process, but we're doing our best. Obviously, the people who wrote these articles should have put the refs in. Now it has to be rectified, but with that many articles, it will take time.

Perhaps you'd be interested in helping out?

Sardaka (talk) 08:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

about the reversion of my indonesia edit...
i like the compromise. i enjoy knowing about independencies of nations, and konwing who independence was gained form is key to the history of a nation. Indonesia also hits home with me, my grandfather's family owned the largest rubber plantation on Sumatra. Always obliged to work along side such an accomplished editor=)Duhhitsminerva (talk) 04:04, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The Manor
Thanks for the word on the manor. I don't think it's too long; the fact is that a lot of these "landmark" blurbs are a bit skimpy; more detail would go a long way.

Re it's own article: I thought of it, but didn't think it was notable enough. Might be hard to justify if challenged. But I've written it up in my new article, Heritage homes of Sydney. See what you think.

Sardaka (talk) 12:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Apparently we don't see eye to eye on the subject of galleries. In this case, the point is that the shots were there anyway, so I just organised them better, because they were all over the place.

Sardaka (talk) 13:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

On the subject of whether "exhaustiveness" is implied or not, what is wrong with my style in regard to this particular edit?

Sardaka (talk) 13:55, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Heaven's Army
Lol did you have to shut me down by deleting my picture of merbabu and merapi =(--Heaven&#39;s Army (talk) 09:41, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Which article are u referring to?--Heaven&#39;s Army (talk) 11:27, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah well u wrote it with the intention of altering a specific article which i just did so which one is it....????--Heaven&#39;s Army (talk) 11:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Yea i know wat u mean but its just i get a feeling ur saying it because u just saw an article...could u please just tell me which one...???? --Heaven&#39;s Army (talk) 11:40, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Yea i get wat ur saying its just wat im saying is that i got a feeling that u wrote it after reading an article recently edited by me and i wanna know which 1 it was....plus i have referenced my articles like Indonesian Air Force, Lamborghini Reventon, F-16 Operators, and nearly all of them unless they're basic knowledge--Heaven&#39;s Army (talk) 11:49, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Again?
I see you were a bit hasty there Beethoven Prester John (talk) 04:39, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah - I made a mistake - have you ever admitted that? As for stalking - your accusations are getting as boring as they are baseless and hypocrtical. Don't you use a watch list? Now drop it already. --Merbabu (talk) 04:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well what have we here? And here? See, crying "stalking" every 5mins is a pointless game. --Merbabu (talk) 04:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Dummying
Hi Merbabu. I respect your efforts on the Copra article. However, the article is about a chapter in the history of both Australia and PNG. All references, from the Parliament of Australia in the early 1900s to todays news articles, all use the term dummy or dummying. How can the term be POV when it is was the widely used term? To call it something else wipes out part of our history. Also, the article is not about 'copra plantations in New Guinea. It's about Copra Dummying. Regards,  Lester  11:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Apologies, Merbabu. I thought you had moved the article. In fact it was Prester John who did it. Lester  11:07, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm - I understand where you are coming from on this issue, but I actually think it is more interesting and valuable to create an article on the whole history - copra dummying can be part of that. You'll notice from my extensive work on Dutch East Indies and Indonesian_architecture, that the colonial history of our neighbourhood is a little pet topic of mine. I always find it interesting to see how us white fella's coped in the exotics. --Merbabu (talk) 11:17, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Jamsheed Marker...
St. Petersburg Times is a national newspaper, the largest in Florida and is reliable. So please don't jump to conclusions just because it's sexy. Below is the article:

Eckerd instructor injured in car crash St. Petersburg Times (Florida) August 29, 2001, Wednesday, 0 South Pinellas Edition Copyright 2001 Times Publishing Company St. Petersburg Times (Florida) August 29, 2001, Wednesday, 0 South Pinellas Edition SECTION: CITY & STATE; Pg. 3B LENGTH: 281 words HEADLINE: Eckerd instructor injured in car crash BYLINE: LEANORA MINAI BODY: A weekend car accident in New York has injured Jamsheed Marker, an Eckerd College instructor and retired diplomat, his wife and daughter. Marker, 78, and his wife, Arnaz, 64, are in stable condition at Saint Francis Hospital in Poughkeepsie, N.Y. Their daughter, 50-year-old Feroza Marker, who works as an occupational therapist in New York City, is in critical condition. "We're all terribly, terribly sorry to hear about this," said Kitty Rawson, a spokeswoman at Eckerd College in St. Petersburg, where Marker teaches diplomacy and international relations. Marker, a former Pakistani diplomat, suffered a fractured hip. He has lived in northeast St. Petersburg with his wife since 1989. The accident happened at 5:48 p.m. Saturday while the Marker family rode in a hired car in Stanford in Dutchess County, N.Y., said Sgt. Robert Hogan of the New York State Police. A westbound 1998 Ford on County Route 17 crossed the double yellow line and collided head-on with the Marker's eastbound 1993 Chevrolet, police said. The driver of the 1998 Ford, Jessica Olay, 17, of Pine Plains, N.Y., and her three passengers were not seriously injured. No charges have been filed. The investigation continues. Marker was the U.N. special envoy to East Timor in 1999. As such, he helped negotiate a settlement to a conflict that killed more than 200,000 people and threatened the stability of Indonesia. He has taught at Eckerd College since 1995. "He's well-liked by students and valued by his colleagues," said Rawson, the college spokeswoman. "We are not sure whether he will be able to teach this fall." - Times researcher Kitty Bennett contributed to this report. --RossF18 (talk) 14:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Sydney Heritage
So, you're suggesting I write 20 separate articles. It would sure be a few arrows in the quiver, but let me think on it a while, especially since I'm thinking of turning it into a book I almost wrote 20 years ago, but not quite. I'm now adding shots of the manor. Did you do the article on it? Sardaka (talk) 07:54, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like an article on the Manor, but I was going to give you a chance to do it - that is, if I created it, it would be more than likely that my work would be limited to using the info you've already obtained. I certainly think it would make a nice little article - it will never be huge.
 * As for Mosman article and Manor photos - it seems commenting or even removing other people's photos in the Mosman article seems to get me accused of WP:OWN, but my suggestion would be not to include the Manor for a photo. I would like to see some shots of good and typical examples of federation housing stock (no, not necessarily the biggest house - just the modest typical ones), some shots of the water, and national park. Mosman Bay is iconic - for example.
 * As for the house articles, you don't have to do the whole lot now, why not go through them on a priority basis? And for each one, you have most of the info to at least start. So it's not really writing - setting up. A nice navigation template could also be done. :-) --Merbabu (talk) 08:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The Manor is an iconic house and the biggest house in the suburb - I think a photo would be more than warranted (as is the information). Let's leave it as is. JRG (talk) 05:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Timor dispute
Yeah, I've been glancing at that dispute from time to time. I'll need to go back and review my sources, but I probably won't have time to do so until this weekend. Sorry for the delay, and thanks for addressing it in the meantime. (And for your other work on the article – but I'm not sure about splitting up the Horta and Belo images. We can discuss it later.) Cheers. – Scartol  •  Tok  11:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Petition of Fifty
Yes, the heading is better. Thanks for the improvements. Regards Davidelit (talk) 06:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Traitor?
Bapak saya pada Universitas Guelph kira kira 1932-1937, dan lebih awal tinggal di seskatchawan dan tempat yang lain kira kira 1919 - hampir 1922 - bukan! negara bapak saya hampir sepuluh tahun - anyways it is to do with project management tags - whatabout the usa ones you didnt see - most WP projects are inordinately lazy when it comes to organising their own Categories with Non article tagging - some use bots - and some ignore the red discussion tags on otherwise well organised category pages - so the human bot strikes again :( SatuSuro 06:40, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Demographics of Indonesia
Hi Merbabu,

I am confused as to why you undid my edits on Demographics of Indonesia. Ethnic groups in Indonesia redirects to the "Ethnic groups" section of "Demographics of Indonesia". The idea of using navboxes is that the navbox should exist on all articles to which it links. The "Ethnic groups in Asia" navbox, for example, is placed at the bottom of each of the articles to which it links. As "Ethnic groups in Indonesia" redirects to the "Ethnic groups" section of "Demographics of Indonesia" rather than constituting a full article, that is the only place for the navbox, unless you feel it more appropriate to place it at the bottom of the article. Please let me know your thoughts on this issue.

Neelix (talk) 23:27, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There are two issues which I alluded to in the edit summary:
 * (1) Do we really need another nav box? They are large, cumbersome and don't provide any extra functionality - what are the categories for? Further, the boxes you have provided are largely red links anyway.
 * (2) Positioning. Assuming we do have the nav boxes (I don’t agree), then of course they need to go to the bottom and out of the way. Have you seen any other articles with large nav boxes part way through the article?
 * It may also be a good idea to get the opinion of the Indonesia project editors. regards --Merbabu (talk) 23:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Timor occupation
I finally responded about the 400 paratroopers number on the talk page. Sorry for the delay. I'd also like to attempt a copyedit to remove possible POV prose, now that I've spent some time away from it. (It's amazing how foreign my own writing becomes after a few weeks.) However, I'd rather do it once you've completed your content work. Could you let me know when you think you might finish up? No rush, though I do have to return these library books in a couple of months. Cheers. – Scartol  •  Tok  00:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I've done some copyediting, but I plan to do more. Also, I'd like to put an image of some kind into the section on transmigration. I'm sure it'll be tough to find a photo, so I was thinking of a graph. Do you have numbers I could punch in to make such a graph? (I got mad Excel skillz.) Maybe from the Vickers book? I was thinking numbers of Timorese and Indonesian (and Chinese?) in East Timor in 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, and 2k. – Scartol  •  Tok  12:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Page hits
Hi Merbabu. Actually, the David Hicks article seems to get a lot of page hits. 67,000 in December 2007. 82,000 hits in January 2008. It's tapered off in March, but would probably rise when he gets mentioned in the news again. Lester  23:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but even if it was the most read page on the site, I have better things to do with my valuable wiki and off-wiki time than put up with the consistently poor form shown by a number of editors on that page. Editors should think hard about how their combative-rather than collaborative-efforts effect the desire of others to contribute. --Merbabu (talk) 23:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

St James pic…
I put the pic back to its original size. OK, it’s a stylistic choice to have two pics in the lead and not strictly wikified, but I think it works well within the space. (and, the two buildings are generally broad representation of the article’s content – no room for a Seidler pic in the lead). You might want to see Architecture for the idea. By adding in the 180px, the pic now looks too big, but worse, it pushed the other pics down into the next section on most screen setups. Hope you can see merit in it. Regards --Merbabu (talk) 00:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Something to keep in mind. Not everyone views the articles with the same set up on their PC. Some editors try to add spaces or change the layout based on their own PC set up. When viewed by other editors it can look totally disjointed, out of line or full of white spaces. J Bar (talk) 00:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * But of course, in fact, this is my point to the change. I noticed on my current screen, that the lower pic spreads itself into the next section with the 180px specified. That's why I put it back to "upright" only - the smaller the pic, the less it's likely to interfere. WP:MOS suggests a larger pic can be used in the lead, I squeezed another one in to fill the gap from the TOC. I too hate spaces being added to "fix" layouts. When I've been overseas in developing countries, large pic sizes on older lower monitors can look bloody awful. But, I think we are OK now with this article, right?--Merbabu (talk) 00:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * On my screen, it's all gaps and spaces. J Bar (talk) 02:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Pain
Hi Merbabu, can I interest you in having a look at Pain and perhaps editing there? The present article grows from the latest scientific definition of pain, which allows for a simplified but very incomplete article. But "pain" has a rather longer history and more complex meaning than that contained in the present definition. I am still considering whether involvemnet would be satisfying and would like knowlegable, well rounded, editors to work with. SmithBlue (talk) 01:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Improving Star Wars to Featured Article status
I am currently working on improving Star Wars to Featured Article status, and I noticed that you have made a substantial amount of contributions recently. If you have time, I would appreciate it if you could help out and improve the article. Right now, the primary thing that needs to be done is the addition of more references - the article simply is not referenced enough. I have added tags on the page, which shows up as   to make it easier to find what information needs references. Thanks for your time! Gary King (talk) 04:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Cripes
All this fan mail - did you join up with help a ... Anyways maybe you could do a captain cook past the Abdullah Sungkar trainwreck, ta. SatuSuro 08:42, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah well - thats a few beers, and a lot of recuperative coffee that one :| SatuSuro 12:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

And look at that red link kecamatans in the middle of it all - and the ones that link are linked to things that need disambig - bah ! what a disgrace SatuSuro 12:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

WTF SatuSuro 13:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Shall we suggest someone makes stubs for each one or deletion? What about the other states? --Merbabu (talk) 13:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Suharto
Really? If that's the accepted academic figure, which it might be, get an academic source, please. Don't use partisan magazines that fail WP:RS, especially in the lead of the article. Relata refero (talk) 14:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * According to John Prados of the Natl Security Archive, the estimates range from 78,000, an internal Suharto government estimate, to over a million from Amnesty. Those figures should be in the lead, the details in a footnote. Relata refero (talk) 14:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Just wait
Clearly the more fiery responses will come later - sabar sabar SatuSuro 01:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC) What people make of the precedent of it bothers me more than any devices to challenge it - if there is a consensus it is too big - its what the hell to do with it and the resolution of the issues that interest me more - SatuSuro 01:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Greycliffe disaster

 * Well done for a bit of maritime history there! SatuSuro 08:21, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Indonesian Pics
Hi. To answer your question, I have three volumes of "30 Tahun Indonesia Merdeka" published by the State Secretariat, with all the photos credited. I use those released by Indonesian government departments as per the copyright law. I also have the two voulmes of "40 Tahun ABRI", plus all kinds of out of copyright stuff. Oh, and a digital camera and Paint.NET. And not much else to do on Sunday afternoons. Davidelit (talk) 10:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

lucky b i say - i remember in the mid 90's in some of the more obscure second hand book shops in 'shopping' in yogya (just south of beringharjo) - things like that you could buy so easy  - it was the problem of coming back to oz with overladen back packs etc :( SatuSuro 12:33, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

oh well you can tell the geographrically challenged have their day :) SatuSuro 13:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Not a road id travel myself
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_and_nociception give me a harbour night cruise anytime as to editing in that article :) SatuSuro 14:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Surry Hills
Have you seen the nice gallery of about 20 or 30 so pictures in this article. Surry Hills, New South Wales. --User:Adam.J.W.C. (talk) (talk) 08:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was actually exaggerating but then I went back and counted at least 26 photos is the one article . --User:Adam.J.W.C. (talk) (talk) 08:19, 1 April 2008 (UTC)