User:MinorProphet/Draft subpages/Monument to Edmund Waller

While adding some cites to the Thomas Rymer article back in 2019, I came across the following lengthy funerary inscription, and on a whim I attempted to render it into English. This may have been a Bad Idea™, since my Latin is Babel 1. (Is that like Babylon 5?)

I'm hoping for a little assistance with my rudimentary translation - I think I have got the jist of most of the Latin below, but some bits are entirely beyond me: I wonder if anyone could help.

Background
cn, obvs.

The inscriptions below were written by Thomas Rymer in 1688 for the monument to Edmund Waller in Beaconsfield churchyard. Rymer was an outspoken literary critic who urged a return to the origins of Ancient Greek drama, and wanted to bring the Chorus back onto the English stage. He had the temerity to criticise Shakespeare, and specifically Othello : he called it "a bloody farce" which should be renamed "The Tragedy of the Handkerchief." He knew John Dryden and probably a number of other Restoration poets & playwrights around 1700. Dryden said Rymer's Latin was much better than his criticism.

Rymer changed his career in 1692 in order to compile the Foedera, a vast collection collection of all foreign treaties made by English monarchs 1100 to c1550. In the end there were 20 volumes of Latin transcriptions.

Waller had a long and eventful life, (read the article) and was highly regarded as a poet by many. He was elected MP for the rotten borough of Amersham in 1628 and sat until 1629 when King Charles I decided to rule without parliament for eleven years. Waller was again elected MP for Amersham In April 1640, which he lost in 1643 for his part in a plot to take over London with Parliamentarian troops. This is treated in the second stanza (On the south side) He was marrried twice and had 15 children in all (3rd and 4th stanzas. His monument was erected by his son, also Edmund, who in the last stanza seems to have fled the country like his father, although I haven't dug deep into the son's history.

Vague thoughts about the Latin
The inscriptions seem to be fairly flowery and 'Latinate', with (I think) eg double datives, missing verbs and participles, esp. est/fuit; and lengthy parenthetical clauses like (I think) "qui .....bla bla...... musis se dedit" in the second stanza. I am absolutely no expert, but he seems to make the most of Latin's peculiarities and constructions, inflicting inflections on the unsuspecting reader wherever he can.

The Latin text in the book where the inscriptions were printed in 1700, HTML text here, is printed in ALL CAPS and in very short lines (to fit the page). I have turned it into continuous prose in lower case.

I did this for my own amusement, I don't even know whether it has any place on WP, maybe Wikisource? ProphetasMinima? MinorProphet (talk) 16:04, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Updated. MinorProphet (talk) 00:21, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

On the WEST-END: early AI attempts
Welcome, my son, welcome to the machine translator. (Wish You Were Here)

''Edmundi Waller hic jacet id quantum morti cessit; qui inter poetas sui temporis facile princeps, lauream, quam meruit adolescens, octogenarius haud abdicavit. Huic debet patria lingua quod credas, si graecė latinėque intermitterent, musae loqui amarent anglicė.''


 * "Give way to death, here lies the quantity of Edmund Waller; easily the prince of the poets of his time, which is not one, a laurel crown, which He merited a young man, even fourscore years old can not be discarded. This must be the language of the country they believe will discontinue Greek and Latin, muses that might speak English." eprevodilac.com


 * "Lies here, that of Edmund Waller gave way to death, as much as; among those poets of his time easily the leader of the laurel, which He merited A young man, not to say discarded. To be home the language that he believes that if Greece latinėque leave muses they liked to speak in English." Google Translate MinorProphet (talk) 16:53, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Off-topic: Extra info for genealogists. It seems that Edmund Waller and his second wife Mary Bressy might be the 10x great-grandparents of Princess Diana: see from here to here.

Current version
Reduced from ALL CAPS to to modern English orthography. (DONE) indicates the limits of my language (©Wittgenstein, Notebooks 1914–1916.) and my comptetence, which hasn't increased since 2019.

On the WEST-END.
Edmundi Waller hic jacet id quantum morti cessit; qui inter poetas sui temporis facile princeps, lauream, quam meruit adolescens, octogenarius haud abdicavit (DONE). Huic debet patria lingua quod credas, si graecė latinėque intermitterent, musae loqui amarent anglicė.


 * Here lies whatever part of Edmund Waller that yielded to death; who among the poets of his time was easily the the prince; the laurel which he deserved as a youth, as an octogenarian he by no means renounced. (DONE). To him ..... it is owing whichever native language you might accept/believe/trust/suppose - even if Greek and Latin be omitted, that the Muses should love to speak English.

On the SOUTH-SIDE.
Heus, viator! Tumulatum vides Edmundum Waller qui tanti nominis poeta, et idem avitis opibus, inter primos spectabilis, musis se dedit, et patriae. (DONE). Nondum octodecenalis, inter ardua regni tractantes sedem habuit, À burgo de Agmondesham missus. Hic vitae cursus; nec oneri defuit senex; vixitque semper populo charus, principibus in deliciis, admirationi omnibus.


 * What ho, traveller! You are looking at the entombed Edmund Waller who--- (a poet of great account, and also of ancestral wealth, visible among the foremost men,) ---dedicated himself to the muses, and to his country (DONE). Not yet [OR Not until] in his eightieth anniversary during/among [the] difficulties of handling a kingdom did he have a seat [in Parliament], [and was] sent away [from] the borough of Amersham. This is/was the trajectory of his life: neither was his old age lacking in burden; yet he lived always beloved by the people/nation, to/for? the delight etc. of the foremost men, [and] to the admiration of all.

Hic conditur tumulo sub eodem rara virtute et multa prole nobilis uxor, Maria ex Bressyorum familia, cum Edmundo Waller, conjuge charissimo: quem ter et decies laetum fecit patrem, V filiis, filiabus VIII; quos mundo dedit, et in coelum rediit.


 * Here in this tomb he is preserved/concealed near the same [i.e. his] respected wife, Mary of the clan Bressy /Bressy family, of rare character/virtue, and of many [...] the offspring/descendant, [and who] together with Edmund Waller [was] a most beloved wife/consort : with/for/of whom thirteen [children] she bore him, the happy/glad father to 5 daughters and 7 sons; [and] to whose world [she] was devoted, and returned to the skies/heavens.

On the EAST-END. (Mostly done...)
Edmundus Waller cui hoc marmor sacrum est, Coleshill nascendi locum habuit; Cantabrigiam studendi; patrem Robertum et ex Hampdena stirpe matrem: coepit vivere IIIo Martii, A.D. MDCV. Prima uxor Anna Edwardi Banks filia unica haeres. Ex prima bis pater factus; ex secunda tredecies; cui et duo lustra superstes, obiit XXI Octob. A. D. MDC LXXXVII


 * Edmund Waller, to whom this marble is dedicated/sacred, had his birth at the seat of Coleshill; he was diligent at Cambridge {NB he left without a degree]; his father was Robert and his mother was of the lineage of Hampden: he began his life on the 3rd of March, 1605 AD. His first wife was Anna, the sole daughter and heiress of Edward Banks. By his first wife he became a father twice ; by his second, thirteen times; outliving her by twice five years [Maria died 1677]. He died on the 21st of October, 1687 AD.

On the NORTH-SIDE.
Hoc marmore Edmundo Waller Mariaeque ex secundis nuptiis conjugi, pientissimis parentibus, piissimė parentavit Edmundus filius. Honores bene-merentibus extremos dedit quos ipse fugit. E L.W.I.F. H.G. Ex testamento H. M. P. in Jul. MDCC.


 * By [means of] this monument, to Edmund Waller and to Maria [his] wife by his second marriage, his most affectionate/dutiful parents, their son Edmund most piously performed rites at their tomb [OR made this peace offering] Honouring the well-deserving, he himself gave this, who has fled into a furthest country. E.L.W.I.F.  H. G.  By the will/testament of H.M.P. in July 1700.

Last rendering attempt from 2019
(open edit window...)


 * On the WEST-END.

Edmundi Waller hic jacet id quantum morti cessit; qui inter poetas sui temporis facile princeps, lauream, quam meruit adolescens, octogenarius haud abdicavit. (DONE)

Huic debet patria lingua quod credas, si graecÈ latinÈque intermitterent, musae loqui amarent anglicÈ.

Dat S X        3rd Sing Pres Huic           deb—et To this M/F/N  s/he/it owes/is responsible for/is obliged/is destined  /  should/ought/must [ie to him?]

TO HIM THE/YR. NATIVE LANG. OWES atm/SHOULD... (THEY MIGHT/SHOULD NOW atm (Temp.) OMITTING GREEK & LATIN)

F.S Nom/Abl      F.S Nom/Abl     Neut.S Nom/Acc patria           lingua          quod native/parental  language        which NB Nothing else Neut, thus conj=because/as far as/ quod...si = but if

2p Pr Sub credas, You [O reader] might/should believe/owe /think/trust/accept [as true] [addressed to the reader, You [sing.]

si graecÈ latinÈque

3 1 IMPF ACTIVE SUB 3 P intermitterent, they might have been /were temp./. were being (have been temporarily) omitted/left off doing/thought 2 2 or more things/people Might have been [OR should have been/ (were thinking)

musae loqui amarent anglicÈ. [the idea that] the muses should/might love to speak English.