User:MountainsCalling/Choose an Article

Article Selection
Please list articles that you're considering for your Wikipedia assignment below. Begin to critique these articles and find relevant sources.

Supplementary Articles:

Article 1: Hiking in New Zealand

Article 2: Hiking

Article 3: Backpacking (hiking)

Option 1
Article Edit History
 * Article title
 * Marathon world record progression
 * Article Evaluation
 * Not a large talk page
 * Much more niche than option 1 and 2
 * Much more niche than option 1 and 2


 * Most recent record additions
 * Additions of women's times
 * from talk page - adding shoe sizes (no)
 * for me / not from history... how does just presenting records show progression? needs paragraphs to bring it together

From talk page

First section
The article states "Road racing events like the marathon were specifically excepted from IAAF rule 260 18(d) that rejected from consideration those track and field performances set in mixed competition"

Is the word excepted here meant to be accepted or exempted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.214.167 (talk) 20:07, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

The word excepted here meant to be exempted-preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.214.167 (talk) 20:07,22 April 2018Evangcherry (talk) 13:20, 19 October 2019 (UTC)Evangcherry (talk) 13:30, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Sections are displaying in the wrong order
In the History section, I see the men's record progression table incorrectly shown under the "Women" heading. However, when I click Edit to go and fix this, the sections are in the correct order in the source. Does anyone else see this? I can't figure out what is going on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:4B91:AB00:7189:5B69:C75:1CF9 (talk) 19:44, 12 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Fixed by adding a missing table end.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 22:44, 14 October 2019 (UTC)



Should list shoe models?
For the last couple of years the choice of shoes has become quite significant. I think we should consider tracking the model of shoe used in a record. 2001:9E8:148E:2800:FE:D627:610B:D173 (talk) 12:40, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Women's records?
As an unfamiliar reader, I can't tell if Tigst Assefa now holds both records? The follow paragraph seems to state that World Athletics recognizes the other two records, but not Assefa's?


 * World Athletics recognizes two world records for women, a time of 2:14:04 set by Brigid Kosgei on October 13, 2019, during the Chicago Marathon, which was contested by men and women together, and a "Women Only" record of 2:17:01, set by Mary Keitany, on April 23, 2017, at the London Marathon for women only. On September 24, 2023, Tigst Assefa broke both those records by finishing the 2023 Berlin Marathon with a time of 2:11:53.

Chris vLS (talk) 22:35, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Your confusion is warranted - Berlin was a mixed race, men and women, so that statement is simply wrong. Assefa broke the mixed-race record, but didn't break the women's only record. Canada Jack (talk) 22:47, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Sources
 * https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00793.2019

Option 2

 * Article title
 * Hiking equipment
 * Article Evaluation
 * Said to contain instructions and needs edits to make into encyclopedic format
 * Needs better sources
 * Article Edit History
 * List of equipment update
 * Repetitive citations
 * From talk page
 * From talk page
 * From talk page

Medical kit
A separate section specifying the contents of the medical kit might be a good idea, specifically for hiking (as opposed to first aid kit). DirkvdM 12:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
The "Basic equipment" section is a mess. It fails to differentiate:


 * Between equipment that you only need for backpacking (sleeping bag, tinder) and essential day-hiking gear (boots, sunscreen);
 * Between things that you need under almost any conditions (socks, clothes) and those that may or may not be needed (insect repellent, tinder);
 * Between sensible equipment (map, compass) and at least one ridiculous item (what would possess you to bring candles on a hike?).
 * Sources
 * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6993091/
 * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6993091/

Option 3

 * Article title
 * Coffee:
 * Article Evaluation
 * Semi-protected
 * Seems general and generic, but perhaps not nuanced enough to be able to contribute to
 * From talk page

What happened to the article
If Italian person brought lemons from China and squeezed them and added water to them and spread them in Europe does that mean that the country of origin of all lemon drinks is Italy? no of course read the source that  I added it says the origin of coffee drinking is obscure and even if Yemenites were the first to drink coffee which is disputed it doesn't mean the country of origin of coffe can't be Ethiopia, edits like these are the reason most people do not trust Wikipedia --Ernne (talk) 18:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Provide a WP:RS source for the disputed origin. Zefr (talk) 18:15, 30 August 2023 (UTC)



--Ernne (talk) 18:24, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

References




 * 1) Equity Capital From Ancient Partnerships to Modern Exchange Traded Funds By Geoffrey Poitras  page  217

That's a book about finance, written by a professor of finance. You're going to need something from a qualified historian. MrOllie (talk) 18:37, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

I added new source written by Professor of history https://sca.coffee/sca-news/25-magazine/issue-4/vessels-ages-25-magazine-issue-4

JONATHAN MORRIS is Research Professor in History at the University of Hertfordshire in the UK, and the European editor of Coffee: A Complete Guide to the Bean, the Beverage and the Industry, which has recently been republished in paperback. His new book Coffee: A Global History will be published in autumn 2018. --Ernne (talk) 18:45, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * That's not a true WP:RS source (published in a coffee association magazine), but it does confirm that Morris believes Yemen is the origin location in the 15th century, as stated in the article. Zefr (talk) 18:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)



Morris says in the article The exact origins of coffee drinking are still obscure and likely to remain so. --Ernne (talk) 19:07, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * That's consistent with what our article says: The earliest credible evidence of coffee-drinking or knowledge of the coffee tree appears... MrOllie (talk) 19:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)



the origins of coffee drinking are mystery according to Karch's Pathology of Drug Abuse 221 page

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Karch_s_Pathology_of_Drug_Abuse/G9E7gfJq0KkC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=&pg=PA221&printsec=frontcover

Coffee domestication in Ethiopia was begun in the 9th century (Tucker, 2011). The Oromo people of Ethiopia are said to have discovered and used coffee for the first time (Pritchard ) https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Potentials_Challenges_and_Prospects_of_H/GrujEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=origins+of+coffee+ethiopia&pg=PT220&printsec=frontcover

--Ernne (talk) 19:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * More unreliable sources from non-Historians. MrOllie (talk) 19:28, 30 August 2023 (UTC)




 * It is known that the drink was invented by the Yemenis and coffee spread from the port of Mocha to all countries. To make it easier for you, let us assume that there is a Chinese person who took tea leaves from Italy and made tea and spread it. Does this mean that the tea drink originated from Italy? Although there are narratives and disagreements about the origin of the coffee tree, it does not matter where the tree originates from. What matters is who invented the drink that we drink today. Y000zygyy (talk) 12:41, 15 November 2023 (UTC)



Just because the oldest writing talking about coffee was in Yemen does not mean it was 100% invented by Yemenis and the narratives and disagreements about the origin of the coffee tree are about how the coffee plant was introduced to Yemen from East Africa not where it was first cultivated, and your example that you stole   from  my example do no make any sense because the coffee plant was introduced to Yemen from East Africa not from  Yemen to East Africa and even if the Italian person made lemon drink it does not mean Chinese people can not invent Lemon drinks independently forever  --Ernne (talk) 15:35, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * None of these hypothetical arguments really matter - the Wikipedia article will continue to follow the reliable sources. And deleting those reliable sources with a unsupported claim of 'bias' is not constructive. Don't do that again. - MrOllie (talk) 15:46, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Other source written by graduate of Harvard Mark Pendergrast he mentions

It is possible that when the Ethiopians occupied Yemen they set up coffee plantations and cultivated it in Yemen

forms of coffee drinks before the 15th century before the Sufis in Yemen.

Once Ethiopians discovered coffee it was only a matter of matter of time until the drink spread through trade with Arabs across of the Red Sea.

The inventive Ethiopians quickly graduated to more palatable ways of getting their caffeine mix. They brewed the leaves and berries with boiled water as weak tea.

--Ernne (talk) 13:31, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Pendergrast, a person with no relevant academic qualifications, (yet again not a historian) does not overrule all the reliable sources we do have. And he doesn't appear to dispute the 15th century / Yemeni origins anyway. MrOllie (talk) 13:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Sources
 * https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/food-features/coffee/

Option 4

 * Article title
 * Fourteener
 * Article Evaluation
 * Talk page seems heavy on fact checking
 * Needs sources
 * From talk page
 * From talk page

Untitled
What is the source for the claim that


 * By this rule, Colorado has 54 fourteeners, California has 12, and Washington has 2.

and


 * Alaska has 16 peaks over 14,000 feet

According to List of United States fourteeners, there are 15 in California and 21 in Alaska. Which ones in that list aren't counted in this article? dbenbenn | talk 23:47, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

The counts can vary depending on the rule used for inclusion. Not sure exactly what list the above numbers refer to, but the List of United States fourteeners is not a particularly good list; e.g. Browne Tower is a silly inclusion, as it has less than 100 feet of prominence (based on the USGS topo) and is never climbed as a separate objective. --Spireguy 15:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of lists, people have noted that the List of United States fourteeners is lacking context; I propose that we just import that list to be part of this article. In the process, it would obviously be good to make the numbers and the list agree, based on some explicit rule. If nobody objects I'll do that and change the list article to redirect to here. --Spireguy 15:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

All of the peaks elevations are 5-7 feet to high. They need to be changed. --Maroonbells 13:32, 13 November 2010 (MST)   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maroonbells (talk • contribs)

Prominence Methodology
Although it may be convenient to use the latest topographic maps to determine each peak's prominence, that does not necessarily produce the most accurate listing. Other sources of information (e.g., statistical models based on the underlying topographic source data, barometric altimeter measurements, and independent field surveys) can certainly refine our view of a marginal summit.

At the bare minimum, this page should clearly state these limitations on prominence source data (i.e., to the USGS topographic maps), and whether optimistic, pessimistic or mean prominence was employed (apparently mean prominence for at least the California Fourteeners).

I would also prefer to add a caveat to the inclusion of Mt. Muir, but wanted to float the idea here before doing so (please comment). Based on a field measurement conducted on 22 July 2000 in clear, stable weather using several independent barometric altimeters, the prominence of Mt. Muir came in at 276(+/-20) feet. In my view, this suggests that Mt. Muir has only a small chance of being among the California Fourteeners.

For more information about the California Thirteeners (including the Fourteeners), I suggest that you visit the VRMC web site, which was the first prominence-based listing of these peaks to be published on the web (c. February 2000). In particular, the site includes tools to apply different prominence criteria and marginality restrictions to the raw source data, which often changes the resulting peak list (e.g., Fourteeners Climbed by Schmed). Schmed2000 (talk) 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sources
 * https://epublications.regis.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1880&context=theses

Option 5

 * Article title
 * Marathon:
 * Article Evaluation
 * Not a lot of talk on the page
 * Similar to the coffee article in that it is general
 * From talk page

new woman record in 2022
https://nos.nl/artikel/2424610-brinkman-spot-met-wetten-van-topsport-en-loopt-nationaal-record-in-rotterdam Nienke Brinkman "Prompt klokte ze 2.22.51, waarmee ze het negentien jaar oude Nederlandse record van Lornah Kiplagat uit de boeken schreef." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.149.83.125 (talk) 02:45, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Ambient temperature double-check?
> runners recorded their fastest times when the temperature was around 6 °C (43 °F)

That value, just six centigrades above freezing sounds strange, because such kind of weather (late autumn / early winter) usually implies high humidity, like fog or rain as well - a combination that places heavy toll on joints, esp. the knees and thus detrimental to running. Even road cycling races (where athlete's body weight doesn't burden the knees) tend to cease by mid-autumn and restart in late February at the earliest (from European perspective). 94.21.121.96 (talk) 15:19, 16 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Since 1981,the Marathon world record progression list shows all the records have been either spring or autumn, so your comment doesn't seem to match the data.
 * And I'm dubious that humidity is high when temperature is around 6°C. Surely this is going to be very location dependent. Geoffrey.landis (talk) 22:45, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Paragraph break
I've added a paragraph break for clarity, which editor Track1News  talk has been reverting for unknown reasons.

This seems trivial, but the main desideratum of an encyclopedia is that it should be readable. Excessively long paragraphs are hard to read. A paragraph that wanders from one topic to a different one is hard to follow.

I'm baffled as to Track1News talk's zeal for eliminating paragraph breaks. The explanation "we didn't have a paragraph break here before so we don't need one now" has no basis in Wikipedia policy.

Geoffrey.landis (talk) 15:07, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Sources
 * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7449326/