User:Pdebee/My sandbox5

Introduction
The purpose of this page is for my use as a personal sandbox, to develop article content without running the risk of either interfering with main space articles in any way, or of causing edit conflicts.

At the moment, it is used initially to collect Quebec French (Québécois) idiomatic expressions which I have come across but don't understand fully, or feel unsure about understanding correctly. I first came across many of these words or expressions through the lyrics of French songs recorded by Kate & Anna McGarrigle, including the poems written by Philippe Tatartcheff, which the sisters set to music.

My fellow editor Natalie.Desautels (a native Québécois speaker) has most graciously agreed to review this page when time allows, with a view to help elucidate the meaning of these idioms.

I am hopeful that, over time, this mini-project might produce useful idiomatic samples to add to existing pages in main space (such as Quebec French, Joual, etc.), subject to our ability to comply with the WP:VERIFY guidelines, of course.

With this end in mind, I include here some sample ref tags:


 * Sample ref tag for 'cite web'


 * Sample ref tag for 'cite book'


 * Sample ref tag for 'cite book' in French & (2nd ed.)

Example of usage
In the poem/song "Excursion à Venise", the first stanza is:


 * ''À Notre-Dame de Stanbridge, les regards voilés de bure
 * Et toi largement occupé, à délimiter les pavés
 * À Sainte-Anne de la Pérade, les idées à la saumure
 * Sur les chenaux ferme gelés, nos dimanches inachevés

Note(s)
In European French, bure is defined as:
 * 1) BURE n. f. (XVIe; burel, XIIe; probabl. lat. pop. bura, pour burra. V. Bourre). Grossière étoffe de laine brune. Par ext. Vêtement de cette étoffe. La bure du moine.
 * 2) BURE n. m. (1751; mot wallon, de l'a. haut all. bur). Techn. Puits reliant deux galeries de mine.

Initial interpretation(s)
It is, of course, entirely possible that the poet meant to be literal, by stating that some kind of garment was made of a rough, brown wool (like the sack cloth of a monk's habit!) and that it obstructed the glances the lovers were darting at each other. However, I never could bring myself quite to believe this and began to suspect a Québecism here; or, more to the point: I wanted to make extra sure.

So, I started trawling the web and, after a few days (!), came across this query about une bure de nuage. I felt that the following éclaircissement was a real breakthrough :
 * Il y a un québécisme, un "nuage", qui veut dire "un cache-nez léger en laine tricotée". Une définition de "bure" est "une grosse étoffe de laine croissée à poil long, en général rousse". Et voilà!

With this illuminating explanation, it became obvious to me that the poet had simply conflated the word nuage (a québécisme for the European French cache-nez, or muffler  in English) with the woolly material it was made of, and had used the word bure (instead of the word nuage in Québécois) simply because it rhymed with the word saumure further down. It seems clear to me that the poet was eager to use the word saumure, because Sainte-Anne de la Pérade is the world capital of tommy cod fishing; therefore, the idea of soaking fish in brine was a great device for the poet to re-cycle, with the intriguing: les idées à la saumure (= ideas soaked in brine).

Therefore, and assuming my initial interpretation is correct, my English translation of that stanza would be:
 * In Notre-Dame-de-Stanbridge, glances veiled by mufflers
 * And you largely busy delimiting the pavement
 * In Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pérade, ideas soaked in brine
 * On solidly frozen channels, our Sundays unfulfilled

Of course, the above translation does not even bother to attempt rhyming, since the main objective is for the translation to remain as close to the original words as possible, thus helping an anglophone reader to appreciate the meaning of the poet's original imagery, through as faithful a translation as possible of the ideas underpinning the words.

Final meaning
It seems that, in Quebec, une bure can be/is used interchangeably with un nuage, a québécism for un cache-nez, or muffler in English. Or, at the very least, this poet thought it was legitimate so to do.

Natalie's comments
The best match for 'bure' in this context would be: ...a fabric easily identifiable by its armor, which is braided, and the wire used which is called mock. This fabric is characterized by its mottled effect, that is to say by its irregular mixture of white and brown. The threading has almost no twist ... But frankly, you would probably have to travel 8 hours north of Montreal, to Abitibi—Témiscamingue, to hear this form of slang. I've never heard the word used this way although apparently it is official. I have heard it used, believe it or not, as a slang pronunciation for the word butter, 'beurre'. Anecdote; I have an educated lawyer friend who tried his best for his son to speak well, but certain words fell through the cracks. He was always upset when, at the diner table, his son would say in street French, "passe-moé du bure" ('passez-moi du beurre' in standard French; English: pass the butter). Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:27, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Natalie's comments
Délester: As happens more often than not, words have many meanings depending on the context. I've heard the verb 'délester' used to mean 'to shed' as in electricity. The verb also means 'to unload' as in the unloading of the ballast of a ship ('Décharger/Délester le lest d'un navire'); 'to offload' in telecommunications as in offloading a satellite of a portion of its traffic; and finally in transport as in off-loading freight. ...hope this is of some help and use Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:27, 17 February 2016 (UTC)