User:Pedro/Mentoring/Archive 1

User:Jza84
Will I be a good admin one day? I'm sure I would. Would I pass RfA? I don't know, possibly. What do I want to obtain from this page? Well, I want to ensure I have the knowledge and expertise to be a sound, respected, respectable, just, effective administrator. So, if you would, I'd be grateful to receive to mentoring here to make me a pupil to be proud of. --Jza84 | Talk  20:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe the general consensus/thought process behind the creators of this page is the community requires highly specific questions/scenarios (diffs preferably), past and present, in order to give feedback. It appears as though your request is more for an editor review but with adminship trimmings.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 20:53, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * (e/c)Exactly, Wisdom89. Jza84, your aspirations are sound and noble.  But this isn't the right venue for a vague, general, "I wanna improve" type statement.  Do you have any specific instances in your edit history that you'd like a mentor to take a look at?  Any specific questions you have about what an admin does/doesn't do?  I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.   Keeper   |   76   |   Disclaimer  21:18, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. Well, the page was suggested to me by User:Pedro. My introduction was vauge, but, the instructions here don't really elaborate on what helps you guys too; what is and isn't appropriate. I'll continue below if that's ok (to keep the thread stable). --Jza84 | Talk  21:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I also agree the "instructions" are vague. This is a work in progress. If you review the history and talk I firmly believe you could be a great asset in honing this process. And I would strongly encourage you to make bold changes to things that aren't clear on this page. FWIW I think your are in the right place, but need to define what you need. Bottom line - you asked me to review areas you feel you may have weaknesses in - bring them here! An IP making bad edits you didn't report to WP:AIV ? An article you didn't tag for speedy deletion? Maybe a request for protection you made that was denied? Or a Did You Know hook you thought should have been included? Whatever it may be bring it forth my friend. Discuss how you need admin tools - not for you but for the good of our project. And discuss how you will learn to use them wisely. Pedro : Chat  21:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, frankly, yes that would help somewhat too! I've been on Wikipedia for some years now, and been exposed to quite a lot of its sides. I've been through the formal editor review process, but, regrettably, found it less than helpful. If there's some aspect that I can elaborate on or initiate to kick start mentorship, then please give me a nudge. If you think there's likely to be a more effective page for me to visit, then please point me in direction you believe is right. --Jza84 | Talk  21:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you been through RFA before? If yes, link?  If not, what's stopping you?   Keeper   |   76   |   Disclaimer  21:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * What's stopping me? Hmmm. Well, nothing really. I've been nominated for adminship by User:Rudget in the past, but turned it down at the time. I've also worked closely in mainspace with User:Malleus Fatuarum, who's kindly expressed his spiritual support. I just think I'd be a fool not to get some feedback and make tentative inquiries with users with more experience in this field, perhaps see if mentors believe I display the qualities of an admin-to-be and that my candidature would be a net positive for Wikipedia. Is there an aspect I can discuss here that might help you learn about my contribution history or style? --Jza84 | Talk  21:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a small comment. The fact that you were approached by a respected user (Rudget) for a nomination offer, and you declined due to uncertainty at the time shows some real maturity and humility. That will certainly work in your favor. In fact, I admire that kind of restraint.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 21:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * (e/c with Wisdom) The fact that you hesitate to jump into RfA headfirst is a sign that you are rather sane. And the fact that you've worked with Malleus (whom I greatly respect for his article contribs) also doesn't hurt ;).  What's your edit count? (egads, I can't believe I asked that)...any major conflicts?  RfCs?  ANI threads about you?  Other skeletons?  How's your balance?  Mainspace v. Wikispace? Any FAs?  GAs?  DYKs?  (Please note, I freely admit I have exactly zero of those three categories personally, and don't find them all that important to what an admin actually does around here once they have the extra tools.)  That said, do you want the tools?  Do you like article building?  Do you like dispute resolution?  Do you find that you are asking admins for assistance a lot? (Page moves over redirects, etc....)?  I'll nominate you for adminship right now if you feel that you a/could use the tools, b/deserve the tools, c/can benefit Wikipedia by having the tools, and most importantly, d/won't leave/burnout once you have the tools.   Keeper   |   76   |   Disclaimer  21:38, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * (Edit conflict) Firstly, to Wisdom89... Thanks. I genuinely didn't feel the tools would be helpful to me at the time, and also felt in my head and heart that I wasn't ready for the responsibility. Now, as I've explained to Malleus, the exposure I have and the WikiProject's I'm involved with would really benefit from having an admin around. I know I could make a perfectly sound administrator, but I think we all know that that isn't always enough. That aside, I don't just want to pass RFA, I want to ensure I am indeed a commendable administrator.


 * To Keeper 76... Yes I intentionally name dropped Malleus, whom I have equal respect for (I was disappointed by his own RFA, but life isn't always fair)! OK, well, according to Kate's tool I have 12,000 (under this account - I formerlly used User:Jhamez84, which had a further 7k). No major conflicts, but a number of heated debates., , and have been minor banes of my usership at somepoint or another! The threads at User_talk:Bpeps/archive1, User_talk:Dmcm2008 and Wikipedia_talk:Requests for comment/Yorkshirian respectively will probably show how I've reacted. No RFC or ANI about me, no swearing, breach of 3RR and no blocks :). Several FAs (including a WP:TFA!), GAs, guidelines, proposals, maps, images, FLs (all of which are probably best listed on my user page - sorry).


 * Do I want the tools? Yes. Certainly, I've filled in enough forms at backlogged process pages to watch a hoax page fester or a user to get out of hand (just look at MSJ1958!) when I could've nipped it in the bud. If I fail RFA, then, so be it; as I said to Mallues, I'll still be here writing articles, it's not life or death. --Jza84 | Talk  21:53, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There has been a rename issue in the past that I intended to discuss off-wiki. As the rename is clearly public I'd invite Jza84 to simply note if he'd prefer this issue to be off-wiki or on-wiki. No prejudice should accrue from either decision. Pedro : Chat  21:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it wasn't Wikipedia specific as such. I was rather foolish and had several accounts, on several websites under the same user ID (things like eBay, Yahoo! etc). I received an e-mail from a rather strange individual who had established a link between one or more of these accounts, (noting periods when I was editting). I didn't feel comfortable and distanced myself from those accounts (plural being my accounts outside of Wikipedia - not an army of sockpuppets!). I wouldn't like to give any more detail beyond that on-wiki, for obvious reasons. --Jza84 | Talk  22:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm ready for a nom if you are Pedro. Warning to Jza84 though: Malleus, as far as I can ascertain, fully expected his RfA to pass. It didn't. He almost left. If there is even a 1% chance that you will abruptly leave Wikipedia because of the "hurts" that come from RfA (and they will be there, they are always there), then I'll refuse to nominate in order to save an editor that is actually useful to this place. Your choice. Pedro, co-nom? Whaddya think? Keeper  |   76   |   Disclaimer  22:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I reviewed earlier and felt that the "arguments" Jza84 feels he has had, have been swiftly dealt with in a manner becoming a high quality editor. Yes, I believe I would co-nominate as more can be gained by granting sysop tools - net positive and all that!. As an aside from this, and it not bearing on a proposed RFA, I would certainly welcome Malleus' input. Pedro :  Chat  22:12, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I invited Malleus to view this thread. Not that he's the end all, but still.... Keeper   |   76   |   Disclaimer  22:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ....but he's an editor who has worked closely with Jza84 and his input would be of special value. I'm in agreeance with you Keeper that the last thing we want are failed RFA's driving editors away. I'd like another senior editors thoughts on this thread. Pedro : Chat  22:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I sincerely hope you both co-nominate Jza84. Jaz84, after reading your replies to everything in this section and viewing your edits etc, I would offer my strongest support. Regards, CycloneNimrod Talk? 22:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict) That seems sensible. The thread does seem to be more than productive, at least from my point of view. I've asked Rudget to pop over and make any query he may desire too (I did that earlier this eve).


 * I have to say, categorically, that if my RFA is not a success, then that's quite fine and I won't be retiring, semi-retiring, sulking, go mad, be enraged, vanishing or any such thing I've witnessed others do. I feel valued when users give the thumbs up to an article I've written, not being a sysop won't have any effect on me submitting GA and FAs. If it's not successful, then I haven't lost anything have I? I'd be no worse off. --Jza84 | Talk  22:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Bearing in mind that RFA is a "dirty word" round here I think this discussion is best on ordinary user talk pages. This isn't really the venue. (sorry - my fault to be honest). Jza (and Malleus if you read this thread) - please drop a note to Keeper or I on talk. Best wishes. Pedro : Chat  22:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, and that's fine. Though on reflection a little misplaced, I found the thread useful. Thanks all. --Jza84 | Talk  22:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

My view, for what it's worth, is that Jza84 would make an excellent admin, and that he wants the tools for the right reasons. In fact I think that he tends to underestimate his contribitions and knowledge of wikipedia protocols, as evidenced by this hesitant mentoring proposal. My advice to Jza84 would be to bite the bullet and let the devil take the hindmost, so long as he's absolutely certain that a potential mauling wouldn't be too traumatic. The encyclopedia needs content builders more than it needs another administrator. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * my thoughts exactly Malleus. We'll see how it goes... Keeper   |   76   |   Disclaimer  22:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Yep, that would be it. Pedro : Chat  22:51, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Excellent! May God bless her and all who sail in her. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)