User:Penubag/Archives/graphics


 * User:Penubag/graphics
 * User:Penubag/graphics
 * User:Penubag/graphics

Puzzle-globe
Enjoy! -- tiny plastic Grey Knight &#x2296; 06:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)



Wow, that was all done in POV ray? I'm impressed. Is that free software? -- penubag  (talk) 19:48, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * By the regular definition of the phrase, yes, but please also see the gargantuan discussion at Talk:POV-Ray for the "Free as in speech" crowd's take on your query! Personally I blame rms for not coming up with a better name (I mean, seriously, did he really think that "Free" would be completely clear and unconfusable with "free"?).


 * Anyway, I did cheat a little with the surface detail, which is "bump-mapped" and not "real" surface detail. Basically POV-Ray uses a "bump-map" image to get some elevation data from, and then distorts reflections from the sphere so that it looks like there are bumps in the same pattern; for instance, if you look carefully at the edges of the sphere's image, you'll see that the outline is circular, even where you might expect a "notch" where a groove is running around the side :-).  I'm still working at carving a physical puzzle-globe, but I knew I wouldn't get done in time, so I drew out a bump-map and used this approach instead.  It works well enough, it's just not appealing to the perfectionist in me :-)  -- tiny plastic Grey Knight &#x2296; 09:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Great! I might download it. Although I'd be far less skillful than you; so I'll let you handle the modeling. Great work so far!!!-- penubag  (talk) 03:59, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a layer file for that? If so, please email it to penubag, so he can tinker with it.  (It's fun, and sometimes has unexpectedly good results).  In the meantime, I'll examine this more closely, and will get back to you with comments.  The Transhumanist  22:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I couldn't stop staring at the full-sized image. "Wow" is right.  That image is way beyond my ability. I especially like the lathed wooden legs and the ornamental brace between them.  Awesome.


 * While admiring your work, I spotted a few ways it might be improved...
 * Could the perspective be changed to see the back legs?
 * The gold parts look almost like they're painted, rather than metalic. Could you fiddle with that and see if you can get them to look like shiny gold?
 * The puzzle piece edges don't look like puzzle piece edges. That is, the globe doesn't look like it is a bunch of puzzle pieces fitted together.  It looks like a globe with puzzle piece-shaped canals carved into it.  If that's really hard to fix, we may be able to find another solution (image compositing).  The stand is the important part - the missing component we've been desperately searching for.  It's pretty cool.
 * The globe is kind of dark. When shrunk down, you can barely see the puzzle pattern, or the continents on the bottom part of the globe.


 * I look forward to seeing your next version. The Transhumanist 23:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't have anything approximating a "layer file" &mdash; the kind of work involved here is best thought of as a combination of sculpture (in a virtual space) and photography, really. :-)
 * Perspective is trivial to change, I can just swivel the camera around to get any old angle. I'll try for an angle approximating that of Image:GIMP Globe-in-Stand.png.
 * They're actually very shiny; look at the reflection of the globe and circumpolar band in the surface of the equatorial band to see what I mean. The problem is that they're too smooth, I think; I'll fiddle with the textures again.
 * I think I can fiddle the bump map to get a better profile on the edges.
 * That's to do with the world map used for the "image map" on the globe, I can probably adjust contrast and brightness on it a bit.
 * That little "nub" on the circumpolar band is supposed to be the axle connecting it to the equatorial one, I must have calculated the rotations the wrong way around and it's gotten dislocated. I'll also flip the bump-map around, since the puzzle pattern is currently going the wrong way compared to the Wikipedia logo!  -- tiny plastic Grey Knight &#x2296; 08:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Image:Marble-wiki.png may be a good idea to use as a globe, but its copyright status is still uncertain so that needs to be fixed, and my version of Image:GIMP Globe-in-Stand.png is an approximate idea of the perspective from which we want to view it at (except that my version is a bit too blurry/jaggedy/imperfect). Thanks. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 01:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:Marble-wiki.png is only 477 pixels which is no where near the needed 1,280 pixels. I'd suggest making a larger version from Image:Wikipedia-logo.png. -- penubag  (talk) 04:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Grey Knight, have you seen Blender (software)? Have you tried it before? How does it compare to POV? Just little questions for my little brain. :) -- penubag  (talk) 04:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Past discussion:
{| class="collapsible collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:88%;text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;" ! style="background-color: lightgray;" |
 * style="text-align:center;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |

{| class="collapsible collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:88%;text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;" ! style="background-color: #708090;" | I need the words "Wikipedia World Developer" wrapped inside the bottom edge of a circle. I don't want to see the circle.
 * style="text-align:center;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |

The circle should be 400px X 400px.

Try different font sizes until you find one that feels right for a medal.

The font color should be gold.

Can you do that?

The Transhumanist 05:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That should be doable. I'll work on that as soon as I get home from work. How fancy would you like the font? -- penubag  (talk) 15:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I finished the type. Tell me what changes should be made. Image:Wpworldtraveler.png -- penubag  (talk) 03:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you center the words?


 * Can you create a (round) medallion? Gold.  Then place the words on the medallion (in its own layer) and then alter the words so they look like they are embossed or engraved into the medallion?


 * Then swivel the medallion to the right a little, so we can see its edge? And add an edge?

The Transhumanist 22:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like something similar to this:

250px

Except with the words "Wikipedia World Developer" on the bottom instead of on top, and the image in the middle should be a world map, with longitude and latitude lines. The words and world map should be engraved like the words and image in the medal above.

Then the medallion should be swiveled to the right a little as mentioned above.

Can you do that?

The Transhumanist 22:18, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I can do that, but it would be a lot easier if I had the medallion you want the text on. You wouldn't mind if I waited until that was done first? -- penubag  (talk) 04:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't have a medallion. Can you make one from scratch?  Or modify the one above?  The Transhumanist  04:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm kinda really busy for the next 2 weeks and won't have much time on the computer (<10 mins/day). If you specify what you want on the medallian besides the text, I may be able to whip one up for you in a couple of days. -- penubag  (talk) 04:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

OH OH, I didn't read what you typed above!-- penubag  (talk) 03:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've asked Azatoth (the creator of the medallion displayed above) to comment on our little project here. Hopefully he'll drop on by.  The Transhumanist  04:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No prob with me. -- penubag  (talk) 04:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Finished with the medallion: Image:Wikipedia World Development Award.png. How do you like it? -- penubag  (talk) 01:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Golden Medallion done
400px  Finished!  How do you like it? Suggestions welcome :) -- penubag  (talk) 01:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow. That's cool. Is there any chance I can get the layer file from you?  What format was this developed in?  xcf?  or psd?  The Transhumanist  01:26, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions
Could you remove the word "Award", and change "Development" to "Developer"?

The medal appears to have diagonal stipes. Can you smooth the shading or lighting out?

What program did you use to create this?

Tell me how you did it!!!

What would this look like with latitude and longitude lines?

The Transhumanist 01:31, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah, please point me to the world map image you used for this. The Transhumanist 01:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I've emailed you my email address. The Transhumanist 01:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Looking at it again, how about having "Wikipedia" at the top, and "World Developer" at the bottom. The Transhumanist 01:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Some more changes
The medal is a good start, but I think it could be enhanced to make it look even more impressive...

Would it be possible to use the same font as is in the Wikipedia logo?

Can you give the world map depth, and have the continents rise up from the medal more? (thicker embossment - it doesn't have to be much thicker, 2 or 3 pixels thicker.)

Can you remove the ring edge and give it a flat edge? More like the Jimbo coin? Or reduce the thickness of the ring edge so it is a thin raised edge around the perimeter of the medal?

The Transhumanist 22:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * To tell you the truth, I've been scourging around to find the font used in the Wikipedia logo for a long time. I gave up, so hopefully you can figure that out for me.


 * Quiddity informed me that the font is Hoefler Text smallcaps italic 13px (according to meta:Logo and this and this and this and this), but he wasn't sure if it's the italic weight or just the standard weight italicized. It's available if you have an Apple computer, or pay Hoefler & Frere-Jones US$299 for a single cpu licence.


 * Also, I've learned that user:Nohat designed the logo. So he probably has the font.  If you can contact him, maybe he can send you the words you need.  The Transhumanist  10:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've updated my reply at Village pump (technical) to include slightly clearer details. Just fyi :) -- Quiddity (talk) 19:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

These will be the changes to my next version of the gold coin: Are these correct? -- penubag  (talk) 02:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * More map depth
 * Use Wikipedia font (?)
 * Flat coin edge (honestly, I don't think this is a good idea)
 * Lower the ring shadows
 * Add latitude and longitude lines This doesn't seem to turn out at all

Keep in mind that we can always undo something if it doesn't turn out right. Be sure to keep past versions. If you can make something that looks better than flat edges, that's great with me. But the current edge looks like a giant ring sitting on a table top. I cant really tell where the face of the coin is with respect to the thickness of the ring. It kind of looks like the ring sticks out in front of the face of the medal.

In order to do the latitude and longitude lines, we're going to have to find a map with them already in it. I'll start looking around.

By the way, please put this notice somewhere on your user page and/or talk page where it is noticeable. I think we can get the awards done in time. Therefore, it's time to start spreading the word!

The Transhumanist 10:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

After comparing other maps (with lines) to the one you've compressed onto the medal, I like your version better (without latitude and longitude lines). The Transhumanist 11:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Heads up
I've posted a question at Village pump (technical), that might be interested in.

(I hope someone knows the answer).

The Transhumanist 01:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Re:Graphics request

 * Hello transhumanist, I'd love to help you out but I'd just like to let you know that I am extremely busy for the next 3 days. I barely have any time to myself until then so I hope you don't need the images for at least another 3-4 days. Sorry for the inconvenience. Just one question, would you like the gold coin touched up first or the trophy? -- penubag  (talk) 03:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not a problem. I need a breather too.  The competition doesn't start until July 15th, but it is going to need a lot of promotion, and I won't feel comfortable promoting it heavily until the awards are done and they impress all who see them.  Sooner is better than later, but 3 days won't hurt.  I'd like you to work on the trophy - it's the most important award, and we have all the elements for it except for the pedestal, so it's easier to envision how it should turn out.


 * I think I was too vague in my specs on the medal. I need something similar to the Jimbo medal in level of detail and resolution.  Only one will be given out per month, so they've got to inspire awe in the recipients and all who view them.  Or maybe I'm just judging too soon - it's easy to underestimate a work-in-progress.   Only you can envision what the final version of the medal you are working on will look like.  If you can make it look like it's a real gold coin, that's what I'm looking for.  I don't know how to do it - I can't even figure out how you made that ring around the edge!  :)


 * When I started, my guess was the medal would be the hardest award to create...


 * Keep in mind that since I didn't even have a clue of what types of components to use for a medal (unlike the other awards), I took a shotgun approach in seeking help, and asked as many people as I could to make one. There's one more I'm expecting, and I don't have any idea what it is going to look like.  We'll see how it goes.


 * The Transhumanist 05:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

medal components
On a hunch, I went looking around:

I found a world map that I was able to convert to a silhouette:

Image:World map black.png

An Aitoff, Hammer, or Mollweide projection would work better because they are not flat at the top and bottom. But I haven't been able to find one that I could convert to a silhouette.

We may have to widen the search to the internet - I'm sure there must be public domain maps out there that would work for our purposes.

Using a silhouette of a map will allow us to have latitude and longitude lines on the medal.

I haven't yet figured out how to engrave or emboss an image into a surface, have you?

The Transhumanist 10:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Courtesy of the User:Grey Knight:

 * Image:WP-World-Dev-circular-text-demo.pngImage:Image-WP-World-Dev-circular-text-demo (alpha).png (see page for full size)
 * "As to the font, apparently it's Hoefler Text, which is on my computer at work. They seem to have it for free download here, although I'm unclear if that's legal since Hoefler & Frere-Jones are selling the font and its relatives for what could loosely be described as 'pots of cash'".

The Transhumanist 20:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Rough draft
Before I proceed with anything else, I made a quick rough draft of what the medallion would look like with lat/long. lines. Are you sure this what you are looking for? Image:Long.lines(test).png As I said before, I do not think this is a good idea as map scaling and fitting would be impossible.-- penubag  (talk) 02:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually fitting is possible; see Image:Long. lines 2.png. Do you prefer this? -- penubag  (talk) 02:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Rough rough draft
400px

I'm sure you can make it look impressive.

Be sure to use the Wikipedia font.

And since it includes "Wikipedia", be sure to use the Wikimedia Foundation copyright tag.

But the first step in making this work, is to track down an Aitoff or Hammer projection. If the lines are solid enough, I can silhouette it like I did the above map. Either of those projections will fit the contour of the coin much better, because they don't have flat top and bottom edges like the Robinson projection does.

The Transhumanist 03:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, you want a smaller map? Did you see Image:Long. lines 2.png?-- penubag  (talk) 03:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It was just a rough draft to show that we can get crisp lat and long lines. I don't like the map at all, because it's Robinson. Its flat top and bottom doesn't fit the medal.  Your example shows that large is good, but there should be some space between the map and medal edges.  Probably the same distance that you put between the words and the edge. The Transhumanist  03:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Just because it contains the word Wikipedia, does not make it WMF copyrighted. trademark or PD-font suffices for the text. -- penubag  (talk) 03:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't just contain the word "Wikipedia", it includes the word from the Wikipedia logo. And the award itself is for use specifically on Wikipedia.  We should copyright it for the WMF.  If you want to place the rest of the medal in the public domain (or copyleft arena) before sticking "Wikipedia" on it, that's fine. The Transhumanist  03:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That doesn't matter, it's just text. You can view this for an example. -- penubag  (talk) 04:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Image:Another medallion draft.png

So which variant is your favorite. -- penubag  (talk) 03:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like an Aitoff or Hammer projection, with its latitude lines nice and straight. The figure on the medal should look like a map, not a globe.  Your sample above shows how an Aitoff or Hammer will fit, but you need to add a little space on the right and left.  We're getting close - we just need to find the right map.  The Transhumanist  03:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Great, I'll help look for one. -- penubag  (talk) 04:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Try this
Image:World map - hammer.png

It's a Hammer-Aitov projection.

Have fun.

The Transhumanist 09:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Done
Done with some of your requested changes:

Image:WP World traveler beta.png How is it so far?-- penubag  (talk) 03:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Damn that looks good. The Transhumanist 03:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

By the way, I'm really impressed at the silhouette you made in GIMP, I think if you keep up the work, you can call yourself a graphic artist :) -- penubag  (talk) 03:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you. By the way, for future reference, I took this:

Image:Hammer-Aitov Projection.jpg

and:
 * from the menu selected Layer/Transparency/Add alpha layer.
 * then Select/By color
 * then I clicked on the black in one of the corners, and pressed delete - which got rid of all the black in the image, revealing the transparent background where it had been.
 * the select by color was already set at a threshhold of 15, which turned out to be a good range for deleting shades from this map - shades of blue; that is: the oceans, so...
 * using Select/By color and delete, I experimented with clicking on and deleting various shades of blue until I erased all the oceans but was careful to leave as many shades as I could that were used in the longitude lines near the poles. There were dozens of shades of blue used in the map, but the threshhold of 15 got them in about 5 or 6 select-then-delete operations.
 * Then from the menu I chose Select/All
 * Then Colors/Colorize, and moved the Lightness bar all the way to the left. That turned all the remaining colors to black.
 * Silhouette complete.


 * The Transhumanist 03:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I would even have to think a while to figure that one out. :D -- penubag  (talk) 21:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S.: How did you create the ring!? The Transhumanist 03:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a ring. It's just a beveled circle with lighting effects. You can view my layers pallet to see how it was made (see shape 1). Basically, it's just a white circle with color enhancements, I just used photoshop's bevel utility to carve the edge of the circle and apply lighting effects. -- penubag  (talk) 21:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

re Hi!
I'm the other person working on a version of these, I thought you might like to compare notes or something. My current version of the medal is linked below, I'm going to have a go at the globe-and-passport thingy next when I've finished tinkering with the medal. The Atlas-and-puzzle-globe I'm probably not going to be able to do &mdash; humans are hard to model, and I'm not very good at it. I can make you various images of the puzzle-globe once I finish modelling it though, if you need them for it? Have fun!

Image:Example-WP-World-Dev-Medal.png (still has a bunch of errors :-()

-- tiny plastic Grey Knight  &#x2296;  22:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd say your medal is pretty good, all it needs is a gold color gradient. What program did you use to create it? Also, thanks for Wikipedia font, I went over to my mac at work and wrote it out but you made it easier for me as when I brought it over, the whole layer became rasterized, although I expected that, I didn't know how bad it'd turn out after I warped it. Honestly, I'm not looking forward to the Atlas trophy, I'm not good in that either, so maybe we can work together, although I think I have a solution... -- penubag  (talk) 04:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I made it in POV-Ray, a 3D raytracer. I'm still playing with the texturing and lighting a bit to get some nice highlights, but applying a highlight pattern by hand is generally considered cheating in the 3D world! ;-)  I'll get on with the globe and come back to texturing in a little while I think, I need to refresh my head. -- tiny plastic Grey Knight   &#x2296;  13:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow! POV Ray! I know nothing in the 3D field. It may be easier if you make the general shapes in POV and upload them, I can then fine tune them in Photoshop. And it's not cheating, as long as it looks nice ;)-- penubag  (talk) 22:23, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's a few versions I made:-- penubag  (talk) 22:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC) straight corners (color may be fixed later)swiveledone engraved version

Ooh, you made the continents thicker. Nice. But keep in mind that they're not engraved - by that I mean carved into the medal rather than rising up from it. But I like the thicker continents. Can you reverse the lighting (back to the way it was) so that the raised edges of the continents are in shadow? That way the lighting and shadows will match that of the medal's ring. The Transhumanist 20:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi guys
Looking at the two medals above, I'm thinking a straight-on view looks better (like in Penutab's version), and adding a ribbon will make the medal too small in the space it will be presented.

Let's try combining the two designs...

Grey Knight - can you match the base color of Penutab's medal, and then create an engraving of the map and words, using the same size and placement in Penutab's version, and then insert them into Penutab's design - replacing the current face of the medal, while retaining the ring edge of the medal?

Don't forget the lighting / color gradient - perhaps Penutab can handle that part.

I'm curious what Penutab's medal will look like engraved.

The Transhumanist 03:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Graphics design - picking up where we left off on the medal
Penubag, have you figured out how to carve things out of an image yet? I still don't have a clue how to do it!

Grey Knight, can you apply the engraving (carving) technique you used on the continents in the world map I posted above (like you did in this):

Image:Example-WP-World-Dev-Medal.png

and replace the map in this:

500px

Just to see what it looks like.

We've only got 18 days left!

The Transhumanist 19:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't "insert [things] into [Penutab's] design", not sure what you mean by that. I will play with colouring and make a ribbonless face-on view later today.  I'll also go work on that globe; don't think I'll get my whole plan finished in time (busy in work lately), but I'll get something passable. :-)  -- tiny plastic Grey Knight &#x2296; 15:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a layered version of the medal. If you make an engraving of the world map, we can insert it.  It's easy to combine multiple images. It's what I've been rambling on about during this whole project.  :)  By the way, I look forward to see what you come up with on the globe stand.  The Transhumanist  19:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

discussion


Transhumanist, I didn't realize how badly you wanted the map carved out rather than out like a coin. I have several drafts on my computer but I need to know how deep you want the carve and such before I can make a really good one. -- penubag  (talk) 07:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC) v1 (shallow cut) Grey Knight's ray trace

Whoa. Nice. I can't make up my mind which one looks better. You've done such a good job on both of them. Please email me the psd files. I'd like to tinker with them. The Transhumanist 19:28, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There is one small problem with that. I over wrote my original copy with v2 by accident. I could easily recreate it but you'd have to wait a day or two. Besides, I'm working on another version that should be inbetween v1 and v2. -- penubag  (talk) 08:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ouch. In the future, keep in mind that I'd like to have all the layered versions.  Please send v2 anyhow.  The Transhumanist  08:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll send it to you as soon as I get home. -- penubag  (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Email sent, did you get it okay?-- penubag  (talk) 16:41, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Feedback's coming in on the medal designs
I requested feedback on the 2 versions of the medals. Comments are accumulating on my talk page, in case you are interested.

I'm thinking we should use one for presenting the award, and make the other available as an alternative image for those who prefer it. You did a very nice job on both of them, by the way. Thank you. The Transhumanist 22:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you :)! I'm glad to see so many people involved. I'll incorporate their thoughts into v3. To tell you the truth, the original is probably better than v2. The only reason why v2 is getting support is because when viewed side by side, after staring at v2 (the darker one) the original looks washed out. But if v2 was never seen, than the original would be a lot better. What I typed probably didn't make any since but it's a psychology thing, sort of like eating really sharp cheese before mild cheese, the mild tastes like crap in comparison even if you may like the mild better... okay, I'm rambling. Anyways, I'm making another medallion version that should be halfway inbetween v0/v1 and v2 so the continents and grid stick out but not too offensively. -- penubag  (talk) 08:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * LOL! I hadn't thought of that.  That's a plausible hypothesis, even though verifying it isn't.  But if the feedback inspires you to make an even better version, then I guess that's what counts.  :)  I look forward to the psd files, including v3.  I'm glad you are having fun.  Me too.  The Transhumanist  08:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Medallion v3 done


Although only a minor difference from v2, I actually like v3 where I disliked v2, maybe as much as v0. Some of my changes are: artifacts removed and the coordinates toned down. The lettering was fixed for realism and the map a sharper edge rather than the soft on v2. What are your thoughts? -- penubag  (talk) 19:02, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Version 3 is awesome. I was hoping for an impressive award, and you made one even better than the one I had envisioned.  Well done, man.  Version 3 is our official version.  Those who like version one can replace the image in the award after they receive it.


 * By the way, the page name is kind of awkward (especially the "v3"). Please rename it to "Image:Wikipedia World Developer Medallion". I think that can only be done by uploading under a new page name.  You should find something minor to touch up to legitimize the upload.


 * One down, two to go.


 * Thank you.


 * The Transhumanist 01:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Your very welcome! You know, it's flattery that drives us all ;). I fixed the name. -- penubag  (talk) 01:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Past discussions:
{| class="collapsible collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:88%;text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;" ! style="background-color: lightgrey;" |
 * style="text-align:center;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |
 * style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |

This one should be fun
Here are some components for you to mess around with to build a trophy image.

Here's a statue that could be converted into a trophy:

300px

Here are the specs for the trophy I have in mind:
 * transparent background (no trees, etc.)
 * Atlas and the World must be made out of gold
 * orb is a globe (the kind with continents - also gold)
 * globe is also a wikipedia puzzle globe, retaining the continents (but only where the puzzle is completed)
 * the globe is to be much bigger than that shown above (see below)
 * the pedastal needs to be replaced with something nicer, not necessarily gold
 * The name will be on the pedastal: "Wikipedia World Builder Champion"

To see if the concept is feasible, I worked up a sample. Don't use this, it's just a rough work up for reference:

Image:Atlasgold and wikiglobe.png

The above is just an example, and is lacking most of the specs. But it shows the relative size I want for the globe.

Someone retained the proper lighting by using the original pic, and superimposed the wikipedia logo over it. I wonder if the initial bare orb could be enlarged? That would create gaps, but perhaps those could be filled in? Here it is:

300px

The author of the above used this logo:

300px

Maybe the continents could be extracted from this, but the continents from the other side should not show through.

Image:Globe.svg

Well, have fun with these.

The Transhumanist 10:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The continents were very easy to extract and colorize using the GIMP:

300px

Feel free to adjust the color. I changed the color as an experiment.

The Transhumanist 10:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Licensing comments:

Because the final image will be copyrighted by the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-logo components must all be public domain. Please remember to upload any new public domain components first, if any, to establish them as part of the public domain before copyrighting the final image they will be part of. The Transhumanist 11:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm assigning the trophy to you to create - we'll see what you can build, and will work from there. The main specification is that it must be impressive. I've asked another graphics designer to visit you here. Maybe he can provide useful how-to information, answer technique questions, lend a hand, etc. Maybe he can design the pedestal so that you can concentrate on the rest.

By the way, he'll be working on a variant of the Wikipedia logo (for the globe in stand award), and that might be useful for creating the globe in the trophy. I don't know yet.

I've got my hands full elsewhere, and I look forward to seeing what you can come up with.

Make me proud.

And most importantly, have fun.

The Transhumanist 21:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry for being so inactive. Working full time during the summer and the little time I have, I'm studying for college. I'm trying to get your requests through. I'm working on the atlas right now, little by little, but don't expect it on time 75% completed!. Also, I do know how to carve the map out of the medallion, it's just that it doesn't look good. The reason being is that the medallion is facing straight on, so you would not see any engraving effects. I did upload a sample for you though, view it above. -- penubag  (talk) 01:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Some observations on and ideas for the trophy
The lighting/shading on the wikiglobe is different than the lighting/shading on Atlas. Is that something we can fix? It was fixed on that blue statue above, but I have no idea how they did that. Any ideas?

By the way, I tried changing the black symbols on the wikiglobe to a shade of gold, but it doesn't look right because of the way it contrasts with the shadows. (Black doesn't have that problem). So, to make gold work for the symbols, different shades of gold will need to be used to be consistent with the shadows. Who wants to tackle that?

We need a pedastal for the trophy. Anybody want to tackle that? Its perspective needs to match the rest of the image, so it should probably be scratch-built rather than pulled from a photo.

I look forward to your replies.

The Transhumanist 20:47, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Discussion
I had a few spare minutes and did some work on it. See Image:Gold atlas beta2.png. I know it doesn't exactly fit your specifications yet but atleast we have a starting point. -- penubag  (talk) 06:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That looks pretty sweet already, actually. :-)  -- tiny plastic Grey Knight &#x2296; 13:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) I'm glad I'm on the right track -- penubag  (talk) 08:05, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Old image v1 [[:Image:Gold Atlas v2.png|v2|150px|left|thumb]]


 * He's oversaturated. Pull back on the brightness a bit.  He should be gold, not glowing!  :)  The Transhumanist  19:51, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed it before, but you're definitely right. -- penubag  (talk) 08:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Here's an idea for a pedestal that should be easy to make look real: and upside down pyramid. Not only will Atlas be holding the world on his shoulders, but he'll be performing an incredible balancing act as well. Just like us Wikipedia editors! The hard part will be to get the perspective right. If the pyramid is drawn in its final perspective, then getting the shape right will be the hard part. Just my guess.

The point of the pyramid should rest directly upon the bottom edge of the image.


 * Atlas balancing on an upside down pyramid? Sounds cool but in my opinion it will look awkward and unrealistic. I could create a good pedestal, I was thinking maybe out of clear glass with a plaque on it. The plaque could have the "WP World developer champion" on it and a list of all the names who earned the trophy. I could send you the layered file so you could easily add names. Just an idea. -- penubag  (talk) 08:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

For the globe we need to build it from the ground up.


 * We need a golden sphere, with shading and lighting to match the lighting and shading on Atlas. Inkscape can create spheres.  I think its lighting will carry through to the puzzle globe when the latter is overlayed.
 * Don't worry, I got that part all figured out. -- penubag  (talk) 08:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Then the following can be overlayed onto the sphere: Image:Continents from globe.png


 * I'm not sure which would look better: lighter oceans with darker continents, or darker oceans with lighter continents. Both should be shades of gold, of course.

Someone worked up a rough-draft from the rough-draft I made: Image:Atlas with Wikified Globe.png

The continents look pretty cool raised up like that, but they don't stand out because the oceans aren't a different shade. The marble texuture doesn't work, because this is supposed to be a shiny gold metal trophy, not gold-colored rock. Stone texture could be used on our pedestal to great effect (not gold-colored though). The puzzle layer should be on top rather than covered up by the continents.

I'd like the world puzzle-ized, without the black symbols.

To do that you'd generally stack the puzzle globe layer on top, with its opacity reduced. Here's the puzzle globe with the symbols removed:

Image:Wikipedia-logo-sans-symbols.png


 * If you have time, you could carve the symbols into the surface so we could see what that would look like.


 * The finishing touch on the globe:

Once the puzzle pattern is overlayed, Then the part of the sphere and continents that fill in the missing part of the puzzle globe need to be erased, to complete the puzzleglobe effect.


 * Remember, this is the size proportion to shoot for between the globe and Atlas:

Image:Atlasgold and wikiglobe.png

We can't use the above pic because it has the wrong lighting/shading on the globe, unwanted symbols, no layer data, etc. Not having layer data is the biggest problem, because we need to be able to swap these pics back and forth while retaining optimum manipulability. When the layers are merged, it makes the pics much harder to work with.


 * Atlas

Some things that need to be cleaned up on Atlas are the water marks. (On his right shoulder and chest). It looks like you figured out how to remove those on your rough-draft above. You're also on the right track on making him look like shiny gold. The oversaturation needs to be corrected though.

You're definitely better at this than I am.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with next.

The Transhumanist 20:46, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S.: For the globe, I think the most crucial part is the golden sphere that needs to be created to place the continents on. Be sure to keep each of its elements in their own layers, so that we can adjust them as needed. Here's an example in Inkscape's documentation.
 * Okay, I have a good idea of what you want. I'll have it done in a few days. -- penubag  (talk) 08:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Penubag, your idea for the pedestal is cool. Have you made it yet?  There's only 9 days left!  The Transhumanist  19:55, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm working on it as I have time. I think I'll manage before the time limit. -- penubag  (talk) 16:01, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Next Atlas finished!
atlas v1 400px Latest version of Atlas! -- penubag  (talk) 03:40, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow. Stunning.


 * Not quite there though. I couldn't tell what planet that was.  My mind kept playing tricks on me and interpretted the oceans as the land masses.


 * Could you switch the two colors? That is, make the oceans the darker color of gold, and make the continents the lighter color?


 * There's still a problem with saturation - the lion's face blurs out to white, and so does Atlas's edges (his backside, his forearm, his toes, etc.), and parts of the globe and pedestal.


 * Speaking of the pedestal, it is fantastic! The only problem is that the perspective (angle) of the print is slightly off (it doesn't appear to match the surface it is on).  That should be pretty easy to fix.  And I think we should leave the user's name off of there - having it on there will require that you always be available to change it (because I won't have access to graphics programs for the foreseeable future).


 * Keep up the good work. I'm impressed. I can hardly wait to see what the final version will look like. Won't be long now.


 * The Transhumanist 21:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll work on it when I get home (if time permits). As for switching the two colors, I do not think that would be good. It would make my mind play tricks on me. Besides, I've read a psychology report that color switching does not help with image interpretation. I won't bust my sources out here but I'd say it'd be best to leave it as is, unless you are really dead-set on me changing it.
 * That thing on Atlas is a lion?? Wow, I never noticed, it looked like a garment of some sort but I never thought a lion. I'll fix some of the contrast and saturation areas on Atlas and his...lion. The parts on the pedestal that are white is actually semitransparent glass. It's just hard to see on a white background, but you could see better here. I'll fix up those saturation problems anyhow. And the perspective and lettering will also be fixed.-- penubag  (talk) 20:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you approve of medallion v3? -- penubag  (talk) 20:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I approve of medallion v3! See my complete response in the medallion section above!


 * By the way, in case you are interested, you can see the lion better from this angle:

Image:DSC02383.jpg


 * Getting back to the trophy, I wasn't sure at first why I was interpretting the oceans as land masses. Upon looking at the image very closely, it appears that the oceans are raised instead of the continents.  Look at the west coast of Africa, for example.  The reflection of light on its edge is too bright a shade to be the edge of such dark ground.  That line of light looks like lighting upon a raised edge of shiny gold - it fits the gold much better and therefore tricks the eye - making the ocean look like a raised land mass.


 * Did you carve the continents? Or did you carve the oceans?  It's hard to tell which.  The oceans should be carved, with the continents rising up out of the ocean.  We did it on the medallion the opposite way for contrast (we don't want the awards to look too much alike - that would be boring).  :)


 * Could you carve the oceans deeper, and fix the lighting/shading. I think that would make a big difference.


 * The Transhumanist 01:57, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, the continents are supposed to be sticking out. I made the shadows and glare more prominent. Can you tell a difference? I also fixed up all the white spots along the edges and a ton of other places. I fixed a bunch of random color spots and all the artifacts. The lettering should be fixed as well. Do you see anything else that needs fixing? -- penubag  (talk) 02:55, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Now all you have to do is tell me why atlas has a deflated lion under the world. -- penubag  (talk) 02:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * That's his clothing: a lion skin cloak (a close relative of the bear skin rug). Though I've never heard them referred to as "deflated" before!


 * There's still a problem with oversaturation.


 * And the lighting of the continents is still wrong. It's the edges of the continents - there's no way that dark orange reflects light like that.  Change the white edges of the continents to be a shade of orange a bit lighter than the color of the surface of the continents.  The way it is now, the oceans look like the continents - because the light gold would shine that bright at the edge, if it were raised, which is exactly why it looks raised.  See the west coast of North Africa, for example.  That doesn't look like Africa's raised edge - it looks like the raised edge of the "Atlantic continent", along its coast against the "Africa Ocean".  Do you see it now?  :)  The Transhumanist  01:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think I can complete your request tomorrow, maybe. Sorry again! -- penubag  (talk) 05:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, little delay but I found enough time to finish your request. Saturation was fixed through out the image, notably on the globe and his chest. I didn't change the chisel color because I couldn't color it right and also because I think it looks nicer silver. The continents are made of bronze, not gold, so perhaps bronze reflects light like the way it is. Please let me know what you think. -- penubag  (talk) 02:23, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad to see you again. I'm very happy you haven't forgotten the project. The editing team has been slogging away on the page set, and it's getting close too. It's starting to look like Around the World is really going to happen!

Looking at the current atlas image still makes me squint (it's too bright). And it has a few other minor problems...

It may help to see the prototype and the current beta side-by-side:

300px185px

Observations:


 * The globe isn't big enough - its proportion is smaller than the prototype
 * The globe doesn't look real - like it's painted or drawn. This really shows up in the larger image further up this page.
 * On a golden world, it's more intuitive that the land be gold, not the sea - and on all the maps I checked the bodies of water are in a darker shade than the land. When the oceans are too light, the eye interprets them as land.  Mine did.
 * The image is still oversaturated.
 * The bottom edges of the pedastal appear to be out of perspective - raise the left hand front corner up a little to fix? Not sure.
 * The words on the pedastal are off-kilter: the words are straight on, while the surface they are on recedes into the distance. Their perspectives don't match!
 * The words on the pedastal seem a little too dark, and thus don't match the pedastal well. Try a lighter shade? And change them to blue?
 * The right and left edges of the pedestal are like Jello: wavy. They should be straight edges.
 * I didn't know what you were referring to by "chisel" and "silver".

I know tweaking images is difficult, but we're getting closer as we go, and that's good. Keep up the excellent work.

Won't be long now.

The Transhumanist 20:24, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll try my best. There are some things on your list that I won't be able to do because of lost layer data. When I was editing my image (all the way from the beginning) I was always experimenting with atlas and always "stamp visible"ed my image to prevent the original layer to lose data. What that does is, let's say I add some beveling to some text and add a sharp shadow to the underlayering picture. I can modify the shadow and bevel until I stamp visible, which takes every visible layer and compresses it in one layer and places it over the other layers. Now the shadow and bevel on the new top layer are uneditable but the original layers are immune to my experiments. The main reason I did it was because I largely had no idea how I would go about and make a gold atlas, so every time I wanted to experiment, I stamped visible, which resulted in my 30 some uneditable layers. That way if I disliked my result, I could just delete the stamped visible layer. But because I was lazy, I just kept on editing from there, so any changes to any underlaying layers under the stamp visible layer won't be visible.  If you are really unhappy with the current atlas, I can start all over from scratch, but now that I know what I'm doing, I won't have to experiment and make the same mistake. I'll first tell you which changes I won't be able to easily fix:


 * The globe isn't big enough - its proportion is smaller than the prototype I stamped my original design, I can try to enlargen it a little but you may/may not see megapixels
 * The globe doesn't look real - like it's painted or drawn. This really shows up in the larger image further up this page. No way I can combat this. I actually got the globe straight off the original photo and just enlargened it.
 * On a golden world, it's more intuitive that the land be gold, not the sea - and on all the maps I checked the bodies of water are in a darker shade than the land. When the oceans are too light, the eye interprets them as land.  Mine did. There would be no way I could invert the colors now without starting over. Just my opinion, a gold atlas holding a bronze globe would look kind of awkward.
 * The image is still oversaturated. The probem with desaturating any more will leave atlas very white and overly bright, darkening atlas would be a better idea
 * The bottom edges of the pedastal appear to be out of perspective - raise the left hand front corner up a little to fix? Not sure. I think I know what you mean, I can fix that
 * The words on the pedastal are off-kilter: the words are straight on, while the surface they are on recedes into the distance. Their perspectives don't match! This is intentional, the pedistal is slightly on an angle
 * The words on the pedastal seem a little too dark, and thus don't match the pedastal well. Try a lighter shade? And change them to blue? Okay, I'll come up with some drafts and we can see which looks the best
 * The right and left edges of the pedestal are like Jello: wavy. They should be straight edges. I see, I should have saw that before
 * I didn't know what you were referring to by "chisel" and "silver". The thin border around the bronze map on the globe. It is intended to be silver and any other color would require me to restart.

As I said, my atlas is largely uneditable due to my poor editing habits. Now that I know what I'm doing, I can restart with atlas from scratch and do it just as you want it. Otherwise, I can do the things you requested above and have another draft by tommorrow. -- penubag  (talk) 08:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that you know what you are doing, I think it would be best to start over, following these steps:
 * Start with Atlas (gold colored)
 * add the pedestal (the edges don't have to be straight, but they do need to be artistic, i.e. not globby)
 * add the words to the pedestal. The words should match the perspective of the surface they are on (if the surface is viewed at an angle, the words have to fit that angle).  GIMP can adjust the perspective of elements.
 * make a gold globe from scratch (create a gold circle; add gradient, i.e., spherical lighting/shading: should match the lighting/shading on Atlas - Inkscape can do gradients.)
 * size the globe to match the proportion in my sample pic above. (GIMP has a scaling tool).
 * overlay the continents (lighter color, raised edges)
 * overlay the puzzleglobe (reduce opacity)
 * Good luck. I look forward to seeing what graphics wizardry you can perform with your newfound skills.  This is going to be cool, I can feel it.  :)
 * The Transhumanist 18:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll do what I can. Keep in mind that I have a tight schedule so starting over will require a lot of time. If I could continue from my draft, I should have another done by tomorrow.

The raised map on the globe's edges are silver now, do you want a different color? -- penubag  (talk) 01:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Next version of atlas done
400px I finished atlas! I remade the entire thing from scratch, this time preserving all the layers for editing ease. Let me know if there's something you want done. :) -- penubag  (talk) 04:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Awesome. Truly awesome.  Now that the colors are swapped, I instantly recognized the globe as Earth.  This version of the trophy is visually stunning!  There are only 4 things I noticed with the trophy that should be fixed:
 * The oceans appear to be raised instead of the continents - it's the shadows on the edges (the continents appear to be sunken instead of raised).
 * The right and left edges of the pedestal are wavy or blobby, and this flaw especially stands out if you place the image on a page with a darker background. (Try it.  I tried it on my user page, for example).  Can you smooth out those edges?
 * The message on the pedestal is straight on, while the surface it is on recedes into the distance to the right (that is, the perspective of the message doesn't match the perspective of the surface it is on). Here's a sample page with perspective text.
 * The whole thing seems just slightly oversaturated. Not much though.
 * When you lick those 4 details, I think you're job will be done. I'm very impressed with the progress you've made.  We can now see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it is very bright indeed.  :)
 * You've definitely honed your skills, and I can hardly wait to see the end result.
 * The Transhumanist 04:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, thank you, all that effort was worth it! :)
 * A few points: the left and right edges of the pedestal are meant to be uneven and not straight as if his pedestal was made of uncarved quartz stone; if it bothers you, I can straighten the edges though. The center corner (the corner touching the 'W') is definitely not straight, so straightening the other two will look awkward. Also, the pedestal message is slightly in perspective, I toyed with this a lot already, but maybe my eyes stared at it too long to notice a difference, I'll twinker with it more. And, I'll fix the other two tommorow! Cheers! -- penubag  (talk) 07:00, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You could make the right and left edges slightly curved, rather than straight - I think that would somewhat match the way the front corners are done, and should avoid the awkwardness you mentioned above.
 * I used a straight-edge to check the perspective of the message. It appears to have the same perspective of this text I am typing to you right now: text on a surface perpendicular to the line of sight of the reader.  But the front surface of the pedestal is not perpendicular to the line of sight of the viewer.
 * Good luck! Have fun.  :)  The Transhumanist  02:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the pedestal. Aren't the outer edges already slightly curved? And you want me to get rid of the wavy, or is the wavy the curve you are referring to?  The stone pedestal I was attempting to make is supposed to resemble uncarved quartz, with wavy edges, like this one .  Maybe you can show me what you want in MS Paint and upload it. -- penubag  (talk) 03:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It would look better carved, rather than uncarved. Instead of a straight-line, a slight concave curve would look nice.  Very slightly concave.  The curve (not referring to the waviness here) is already there - you can see it from a distance.  The eye just sort of naturally fills it in.  Did that explanation help?  The Transhumanist  22:38, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I sort of get what you're saying. Is it the base of the pedestal you want to have a concave curve? If not, what straight line are you referring to? And you want me to get rid of the jagged edges on the right and left sides and smooth them out? -- penubag  (talk) 06:34, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No, not the base. The far right vertical edge, and the far left vertical edge.  If you ignore the wavies, you can see the general shape of those edges is already slightly concave.  I'd like you to get rid of the wavies, and maintain a slight concave curve.  The Transhumanist  22:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, I've noticed one more thing. The statue would be even more impressive if the globe were larger.  See Image:Atlasgold and wikiglobe.png for the desired proportion of the globe.  Let's show how strong Atlas really is.  :)  The Transhumanist  22:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I gotcha, I'll have it done (hopefully) by tomorrow. -- penubag  (talk) 05:45, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I have completed your requests on the latest version above. (Sorry for the time delay). You can compare differences here: Image:Atlas trophy bronze.png with Image:Atlas v3.5.png. Let me know if there is anything else that needs fix'n :). -- penubag  (talk) 10:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, let's take a comparitive look
300px185px185px

Yep, the newest one, at the far right is clearly the best.

It's time for a round of outside feedback. I'll keep you posted.

(Hmmm, I forgot Internet Explorer doesn't support transparent backgrounds. I'll test the image on Firefox when I get a chance.)

The Transhumanist 22:46, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Are you still cooped up in a public library? That's awful, when do you expect to get a new computer? Anyways, I'm glad you like my latest version, but if there's still one little thing there that needs fix'n, just go ahead and tell me. :) -- penubag  (talk) 06:25, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Cooped up? Uh, staying at home is usually referred to as being "cooped up".  By comparison, visiting libraries is a form of "getting out of the house".  :)   And you never know who you might bump into.  It's all good.


 * We might need to change the words on the trophy.


 * The saturation is still off a little, but I can tinker with it using http://www.splashup.com/ ("the only full-featured, free range, image editor online").


 * The Transhumanist 19:50, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I know you're keep telling me to fix the saturation, but whenever I try and fix it, it never looks as good afterwords. (I did desaturate it a bit since I made the globe bigger though) I'll let you fix it to your liking. -- penubag  (talk) 23:31, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

touch ups
OK, I think I figured out why peoples' eyes are playing tricks on them with respect to the oceans. The oceans are textured, and look like land masses, regardless of their color. The continents are smooth, and look more like bodies of water because of this.

Can you reverse this? That is, give the continents some texture to make them look more like land masses? And smooth out the oceans?

The Transhumanist 20:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I can try, but I'm not sure if it'll turn out correctly..-- penubag  (talk) 23:31, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Astrohurrican has really picked the thing apart on my talk page. I've been staring at the image so long I didn't notice any of those! I've elaborated on his observations on my talk page. A careful comparison with the original image really helps to notice flaws. The Transhumanist 21:57, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Replied on your talk -- penubag  (talk) 23:31, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Summary of changes

 * ✅ Change the blue color of the base to something lighter
 * ✅ Fix the Caspian Sea and Great Lakes
 * ✅ Fix the dark parts of the statue to a lighter color
 * ✅ Fix the gradient inside the globe
 * Attempt to fix damaged areas (right foot, butt)
 * ✅ Erase parts of background that should have been
 * ✅ Lighten dark areas, darken light areas

All done; I overwrote the preexisting file with the new one. This will take a minute to load but you can see the differences here and here old new. Let me know if you see something else. -- penubag  (talk) 04:55, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Worthy of a Titan
Testing default mode:

left|100px

Testing thumbnail mode:

thumb|center|Testing testing

Testing frame mode:


 * (picture not shown: sizing didn't work; it turned out full-size (huge), I don't know why).

Testing complete (here, and on my talk page - which has a different colored background): image has transparent background. Excellent.

Penubag, you've nailed Atlas. He looks like he's made of solid gold. Fantastic job. Bravo!

You've also nailed the continents. They obviously rise up out of the oceans. Nicely done.

I did notice a few more things, mostly with the pedestal - unexpectedly the most difficult part of this project. Hopefully, this will be the last round of changes:


 * 1) It seems so top-heavy.  That's been bothering me for a long time, but for some reason it never occurred to me to fix it.  :) Please double the height of the pedestal.
 * 2) The oceans are close to brown, which is the color of land - this may be why some people's eyes played tricks on them.  Could you change the oceans to a (bluish or turquoisish or aquamarine) color that matches the pedestal?  (Not splotchy like the pedestal; a simple tint change on that layer should work).  That should help with the visual problem and help balance the image at the same time.
 * 3) There are some bumps on his left foot, please remove them.
 * 4) There's a line around the pedestal, please remove it
 * 5) Please remove the words from the pedestal - that will make this a generic image which can be reused for a variety of purposes (we can always add words later to customize it for specific purposes if we want, but the first completely refined version should be generic)
 * 6) If you look closely at the original image, you can see that only 2 sides of the pedestal are showing: the front, and the left side.  The front of the pedestal is curved.  In your graphic, the curvature and shading of the front panel of the pedestal doesn't match the pedestal's front top edge.  Please fix that.
 * Note that when the above fix is completed, the pedestal's front bottom edge should have the same shape as the front's top edge (adjusted for perspective).

My guess is that the last task will be the toughest. When you are done, I'll be very interested in hearing how you conquered that one.

Good luck.

The Transhumanist 03:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm looking forward to getting this completed - I think I have an idea of how I'd do this. I'm writing a paper right now (due tomorrow) so I'll complete this when I have time. You can still leave me a message on any page I've watchlisted and I'll know thanks to a wonderful addon. We're almost there! -- penubag  (talk) 03:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The add-on looks great. Unfortunately, I only have access via library computers these days, and even the ones with Firefox are anonymous and therefore start from scratch each time (which means there's no way to save settings - the add-on would only be able to monitor for changes during the sessions, not between).  I'll test it out anyhow, but can't today (I'm on an IE-only machine).  The Transhumanist  03:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Doubling the height of the pedestal will be easy but keep in mind that doing so will make the rest of the image look smaller at 100px or any thumbnail size. I'm assuming that'll be okay though :). Regarding the addon, you don't have to try it out, I was just saying you can contact me even while I'm writing my paper and I'll be on all day. Just curious, don't feel obligated to answer, but how long before you get your own computer? Another thought: you can save your firefox settings on a public computer, just install OPIE and mozbackup and save the file they create to an external drive and run it each session. -- penubag  (talk) 03:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) ✅ It seems so top-heavy. That's been bothering me for a long time, but for some reason it never occurred to me to fix it.  :) Please double the height of the pedestal.
 * 2) The oceans are close to brown, which is the color of land - this may be why some people's eyes played tricks on them.  Could you change the oceans to a (bluish or turquoisish or aquamarine) color that matches the pedestal?  (Not splotchy like the pedestal; a simple tint change on that layer should work).  That should help with the visual problem and help balance the image at the same time.
 * 3) ✅ There are some bumps on his left foot, please remove them.
 * 4) ✅ There's a line around the pedestal, please remove it
 * 5) ✅ Please remove the words from the pedestal - that will make this a generic image which can be reused for a variety of purposes (we can always add words later to customize it for specific purposes if we want, but the first completely refined version should be generic)
 * 6) ✅ If you look closely at the original image, you can see that only 2 sides of the pedestal are showing: the front, and the left side. The front of the pedestal is curved.  In your graphic, the curvature and shading of the front panel of the pedestal doesn't match the pedestal's front top edge.  Please fix that.
 * Note that when the above fix is completed, the pedestal's front bottom edge should have the same shape as the front's top edge (adjusted for perspective).
 * Okay, I've fixed most of the round of changes but I haven't uploaded it yet. Giving a blue tint to the bronze globe will make it look greenish and ugly. I could experimental with the concept of a glass globe though, how do you feel about this? -- penubag  (talk) 11:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I was assuming the ocean's coloring was in its own layer. Guess not.  Note that GIMP has powerful selection features, and it would be a simple matter to select just the oceans.  Then the color of the oceans could be changed with ease, without affecting the color of the continents.  Note that "tint" refers to changing the color scheme to whatever base color you want.  It doesn't just overlay a color, it modifies all the colors in the area selected to shades of any base color you choose.  I think the feature is called "tint", but I'm not 100% sure.


 * If you can't upload (or convert and upload) the layered version into GIMP (as a layered file), GIMP can still be used on the final PNG file.


 * By the way, I'm dying to see it! Upload! Upload! Upload!




 * The Transhumanist 03:16, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, is that what you wanted? Tint generally refers to adding a certain color while leaving the other resulting in a blend. You're probably asking me to change the hue, right? This would make the globe blue, like a blue marble. Is this what you want? -- penubag  (talk) 03:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Change the hue. Yes, but only of the oceans, not the continents!  The GIMP will let you easily select just the oceans, so you can manipulate them without affecting the rest of the image.  I don't want it to look like the Blue Marble.  I want it to look like it is made out of valuable materials, such as gold and jade.  The Transhumanist''  23:28, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll change the bronze to a jadeish color. No need for selection tools, the color's on its own layer. -- penubag  (talk) 23:10, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I look forward to seeing it. The anticipation is killing me.  The Transhumanist  22:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

alt color
Alright, I finally uploaded it. Sorry for the delay and stuff.

Honestly, I think the bronze looks better than jade but it's your call. How's the pedestal height? -- penubag  (talk) 23:12, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The green color does make the oceans instantly discernable as oceans, and that's what we're after. But green does make the statue look strange - green doesn't fit in with the rest of the color scheme - it contrasts too much.  We need to tie it all together.  If you could color coordinate the oceans and the pedestal (with blue sapphire, perhaps?), that would tie the whole statue together quite well, aesthetically speaking.  I'm guessing that since our oceans are blue, blue would look rather natural in the trophy.  But it needs to look expensive too.  :)


 * BTW, for some unknown reason, the background is white now instead of transparent. Please make the background transparent.


 * With the trophy on the verge of completion, it's time for me to start preparing for the big event! How long do you think it will take you to complete the blue version?  The Transhumanist  19:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, green does not really mix with the yellow. I think sapphire would look lovely but since I'm going to go for realism, I thought it would look nice if the blue sapphire had some transparency like a gem stone would, only round. This would also make it possible to see the continents on the other side (more like their shadows, sort of like the shadow in the pedistal). If I don't do this, the sapphire will look more like blue marble then a gem.  This will take considerably longer though and with my very limited scedule at the moment it may take a few weeks. Also, I'm not M. C. Escher and the puzzle cuts worry me on how realistic I can do this. What do you suggest I do? -- penubag  (talk) 03:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Please finish it in blue (similar to the green version) for now, to give me something to reward people with. Then you can work on your truly awesome idea above as time allows, and those who receive the award in the meantime will be awestruck a second time when the image is updated with your masterpiece.  And by the way, once you do complete the above, you might as well be M. C. Escher.  :)  The Transhumanist  03:37, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I finished the blue color. Does it look good? I overwrote the jade with the blue. I'll try to get to the sapphire if I have time. It'll be challenging but I'd like to give it a try. Let me know when the big event's taking place and fill me in on the details. I can hardly wait myself! -- penubag  (talk) 01:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It looks very good. A lot better than the green.  Though, and I hate to stretch this project out any further than I already have, it still doesn't blend well with the pedestal.  Would it be much trouble to make the the pedestal and oceans match?  That is, use the shade you gave to the oceans as one of the colors in the mosaic of colors in the pedestal?  Honestly, I can't think of any other ways it can be improved (knock on wood - but I'll speak up if I do).  :)  Except for this color matching thing, it's done.  So it looks like I get to say the following phrase for the last time: we're almost there!  :)  The Transhumanist  01:49, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Give me a shot at sapphire. I think it'll look stunning. I've already came up with the design, I've just got a few complications to work out. But if you'd like me to do the above, please tell me, I wouldn't want to do it twice. -- penubag  (talk) 04:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I gave a shot at sapphire. I know it's not stunning or anything but it's the best I know how. Do you like this idea or should I try what you had above? There's still a few things I need to clean up on the sapphire like the line but tell me how I should continue first. The map is covering up all the lighting on the sapphire so it doesn't really look much like one.-- penubag  (talk) 08:59, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

200px200px


 * That looks great. Even better than the previous version.


 * The pedestal though, is the wrong one. It needs a color adjustment or something, so it matches the oceans of the globe in some way.  You know, like color-coordinating your clothes (making sure one of the colors in your shirt match your pants, etc.) or your apartment (choosing the new carpet from one of the colors in the drapes so they blend, etc.).


 * The pedestal has a bunch of different hues or shadess (or both?). Currently, none of them match the oceans on the globe.  If one of the dominant colors in the pedestal matched the oceans of the globe, or if the overall hue of the pedestal was shifted so it (the pedestal) matched the oceans in some way, then I believe the whole piece would blend together a lot better.


 * Does that make sense?


 * Will it be difficult to color-coordinate the pedestal with the oceans?


 * There is one other small thing. You've placed Australia in the northern hemisphere!  (And where's the rest of Russia?)  :)


 * The Transhumanist 20:07, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

 100px|leftI extracted the map from this image for the "sapphire" (might as well just call it clear orb; it looks nothing like sapphire) so the position on the globe is the same as on Atlas. Although the orb is recreated from scratch. Russia is cut off on the top because the Wikiball is also cut off on top. Australia isn't in the northern hemisphere, it's just the angle at which it is being viewed, but I see the problem. It will be easy to shift the back side of the map a few centimeters. But I don't like how the clear orb turned out. The solidness of the other one looks a lot better in my opinion; it looks heavier, not like a bubble. As for the pedestal, do you want the hue of the entire pedestal changed or just one of the dominate colors? If I change just one color, I fear it may lose the illusion of a crystal/quartz. I'll make a few mock ups and I'll let you decide. -- penubag  (talk) 23:47, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

mock up pedestals
left|200px(also see my post above) Ok, here's a few quick mock ups. In 1, I used a semi-automated process to find the darker areas and change the color. In 2, I changed the color of the entire pedestal, and in 3, I manually selected one dominate color and changed it to be closer to the blue on both the glass orb and the original. The 'a' ' s are further editing I've done to each design that I though would go nice with atlas. 'b' ' s are the raw output, and orig is the unedited original pedestal. Which one looks nicest? I could combine a few or incorporate them so use this pic as reference. Also, remember that I can easily change the darkness, saturation, contrast, and hue of any of these or any color. These are just a quick slam to get started. -- penubag  (talk) 04:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You'll be able to tell which pedestal looks best when you add it to the trophy. My guess is 3b looks closest, but I leave it up to you to tweak it all in whatever way you feel best to make it all fit toegether just right.


 * About the globe, you mentioned you like the solid version better. Whichever version you decide on is fine with me.  If you choose the solid version, there are a couple things I'd like to suggest: there appear to be smudges in the South Atlantic.  Could you clean those up?  Also, if you could deepen the blue a little, I think it would look nicer.  Similar to the clear version's color, but solid.  Just some suggestions - I'm sure whatever you produce will look awesome.  After this stage of touch ups, I'm pretty sure it will be done!


 * Keep up the excellent work.


 * The Transhumanist 23:24, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the delay, I just have to get my gear back into this. -- penubag  (talk) 03:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * When we started, I didn't realize creating these graphics would be this involved (difficult). You've gone way beyond the call of duty, and the results show it.  I think your graphics skill level has ecclipsed mine for sure.  I can hardly wait to see the final final version.  :)  The Transhumanist  20:11, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

center|210px

I'm sorry for taking longer than I said I would, but here's atlas with a bluer pedestal. And really, do ask me if there is the slightest thing annoying you, I'll be quick to upload from this point forward.-- penubag  (talk) 00:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I like the blue oceans of the following version, without the green continents in the background:

center|200px


 * Can you remove the green continents and then see if you can make the pedestal match the oceans?


 * Thank you for your enthusiasm, and thank you for the tips on my talk page. The Transhumanist  03:53, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I see what you want now. Would you like the exact color of the globe or should I lighten it? The pedestal, I envisioned it to be a see-through quartz stone, but to make it darker and retain realism, I'll need to make it completely opaque, like a shiny blue stone. How does this sound? btw, that smudge in the southern hemisphere is a reflection, but I guess it didn't look enough like one :). w/o the smudge would look like the older bronze version above. -- penubag  (talk) 04:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * There is no smudge on the deep blue seas version above. The smudge was referred to in a message I deleted, and was referring to this version:

center|100px


 * but that was before I looked back at the other version, with the deep blue seas. :)


 * you can play around with the deep blue seas version all you want - just make it look cool (with matching color schemes between components to tie it all together).


 * The Transhumanist 04:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I knew what it was referring to. I'll work more on atlas when time permits; this next step might take me a while to nail (the opaque pedestal), so I'll let you know when it's done. -- penubag  (talk) 04:56, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Pedestal development
Which one looks the most realistic or attractive? Suggestions? I didn't remove the pedestal shadow from 3 (and the others partially), but you can imagine what it looks like. -- penubag  (talk) 02:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Oooh, that globe looks nice. (It will have the puzzle pieces when finished, right?)


 * Pedestal #2 is the closest color match. The others are more purplish than the globe.


 * Lookin' good.


 * And thank you for the speedy reply.


 * The Transhumanist 03:00, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the puzzle pieces will be there, I hid that layer by accident when I was hiding the others. Okay, so you've picked the color, now which looks the most realistic as a stone? The shadows and light spots should be just the right shades. I need your input here since I don't notice all the things since I created them. -- penubag  (talk) 03:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Number 5 looks the glassiest / most crystal-like. And it has the least blotching at the top.  I didn't even notice that until you made me look close.  :) The Transhumanist  03:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The blotches were supposed to be the shadow from a kneeling Atlas above. My excessive tone balancing screwed those up though it's not a problem. I half-attempted to remove the shadow from just 5 and 2 so that's why it has the least. You mention that 5 "looks the most glassiest/ crystal", and you seem to like that one. So should we stick to a crystal base or change into opaque? My original intention was to go opaque to accommodate for the new darker color, but the clearish crystal's fine (I actually prefer). But that means I should probably add Atlas' shadow back in. -- penubag  (talk) 03:55, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, clear looks best. And I think it looks better without the shadowing.  I can't tell what shadows should be affecting the pedestal anyways, since it is clear and light is theoretically coming through it from the other side, so I doubt there would be any shadowing anyways.  The Transhumanist  04:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What I've meant was the shadow on the top of the pedestal (the faintly darker portion), but I'll just use my judgment here now that I know that we're using crystal again. -- penubag  (talk) 04:32, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I uploaded the next version of atlas, see him above! It's a 2 and 5 hybrid. Anything else you see itching you? -- penubag  (talk) 08:56, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Bravissimo!




 * It's done! It's awesome.  I love it.


 * Now we need to figure out the best way to apply all these awards you have created. :)


 * The Transhumanist 20:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm thrilled that Atlas has gone live and am very glad to have undertaken this project. I have learned a tremendous amount in the process and am happy to have done so. I wish you luck with the outlining and geography development. I'll be a few clicks away if you'd need my help in the future, so don't hesitate to ask. -- penubag  (talk) 02:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)