User:Phil wink/Translation workshop

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POEM TITLE

 * Text and translation




 * Literal translation


 * Target article


 * Target prosody


 * Target tone

Discussion
}}

Stvoření světa (The Creation of the World)

 * Text and translation



Chaos! Chaos! Who can recognise all these elements, That lie here in colourless mixture, Where does the base of Mother Earth flow, Where is the stream of lava and where are rocks climbing to the moon, Where are corpuscules of light that make tail of a comet up? Chaos! Chaos! Only (visible) darkness everywhere, Giant worlds still sleeping in the depths, Where is the axle, the Earth is placed on, Where is eternal fire, the planet keeps inside?
 * Literal translation

Spenserian stanza
 * Target article

Iambic pentameter; Spenserian stanza
 * Target prosody


 * Target tone

Discussion
First attempt above. Naturally the lines vary in literalness, but I'm pleased by how many are quite close. I guess "Where are the pillars of the continents" is probably the furthest from literal; something like "Where are the seas and Gaia's continents" might be closer, but I do like the scriptural ring of "pillars". Note that "cast" may serve as "discarded" ("out of sight"), but also "molded" (as bronze -- which is a "compound"). I look forward to your constructive criticism. Phil wink (talk) 01:19, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Uwielbienie (Adoration)

 * Text and translation



Although dead, I will still adore you! And I will never forget, under the ground or in heaven, About Your light. For me you were not a vain dream, Not a rainbow-coloured bubble of nothingness, But my soul’s refreshing longing For eternal love.
 * Literal translation

You didn’t surround me with caressing in my sleep, You were not a flaming wave To cover my breast (chest) waiting, You didn’t invite me to bed covered with petals of rose, Where only bodies sink in bliss, But you gave me lust for beauty, An everlasting power.

Likely Sapphic stanza — possibly Adam Asnyk, Hendecasyllable
 * Target article

Two stanzas rhymed aabcbcb. Iambic pentameter, except dimeter with feminine ending for 1st & 3rd "b" line of each stanza.
 * Target prosody

The poem is addressed to a woman. I think it is deeper than romantic love poems.
 * Target tone

Discussion
I know the "hour" line is a bit of a cheat, but I think the rest is reasonably solid ... stanza 1, not so much yet. Phil wink (talk) 04:31, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
 * First (and possibly final) draft done. I wish I could have hit the mark more often, but I think some lines are good, and I think that the final 2 lines of both stanzas have a good ring to them, leaving the reader with a good taste in the mouth. Thoughts? Phil wink (talk) 18:37, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, looks like this needs a . Phil wink (talk) 18:46, 2 September 2016 (UTC)


 * This is the source of the text from the nineteenth century in Polish with English translation of each word.


 * Adam Asnyk, Uwielbienie [w:] El...y [Adam Asnyk, pseudonym], Poezye [Poems]. Tom I. [Volume I] Poprzedzony słowem wstępnem [With a foreword]. Wydanie nowe z portretem autora [A new edition with a portrait of the Author], Nakład Gebethnera i Wolffa [Edited by Gebethner and Wolff], Warszawa [Warsaw] 1898, p. 118.


 * Perhaps it is not much important, but I want to explain that Gebethner and Wolff was a very famous publishing firm at that time, something like Penguin Books or Wordsworth Editions today.


 * You work quickly, I go some steps after You, but have already added some sections to my sandbox about Sapphic stanza and other strophes derived from this form. (Anagram16 (talk) 00:46, 3 September 2016 (UTC))

Štědrovečerní zvony (Christmas Eve bells)

 * Text and translation



From depths of a city sleeping in fog, through shadows with strong voice over the water clothed in black, over the fields (hills) go far Christmas bells.
 * Literal translation

Sapphic stanza? Sapphic stanza in Czech poetry?
 * Target article

/ x / x / x x / x / x (times 3) / x x / x (no rhyme)
 * Target prosody

The tone of the poem is calm and idyllic, but also solemn and prophetic in last stanzas (there is the image of a Czech baby who can fight against serpents like Heracles and the question: Who can say that the Messiah does not sleep here?)
 * Target tone

Discussion
I think this Sapphic stanza is comparable - as an imitation of Old Greek measure - to Alfred Tennysson's Milton in Alcaics. Perhaps it is not much English with its feminine endings, but it should be somehow unusual, as it is not a common form in its Czech environment, either.


 * A couple requests, and a comment:
 * Please add a source for the text (you can put it in  right at the end of the Czech text above, just as you normally would). If this is the whole poem, then that's enough -- if this is an excerpt, then please note line numbers too.
 * How would you describe the tone of the original? My sense was to go for something like "calm; idyllic", but with just 4 lines, it's hard to be sure whether my call was right.
 * I think you may overestimate the unnaturalness of feminine endings in English verse. Most of our 2-syllable words are paroxytonic, and of course a lot of our 3+ syllable words are too. So (to me, anyway) verses like those above do not sound at all exotic... "sable" is a little unusual, but because of its diction, not its rhythm; likewise "bells are" might be a little unusual, again not because of its rhythm but rather this type of enjambment seems a little modern, more like a bad habit from the 20th century. It is true that in rhymed verse, feminine endings become much more prominent: certainly more self-conscious, sometimes yielding a lighter tone; and it is a challenge for a triple rhyme to be anything other than hilarious (whether intentionally or not). But this is all when feminine endings become feminine rhymes -- not only doubling the number of syllables normally thus emphasized, but also massively limiting the words available in those positions. Then, of course, the degree of self-consciousness created corresponds in part to the frequency of feminine endings: eventually they get tiring, but more quickly in rhymed than blank verse -- and I don't think any poetic trick could get tiring in 4 lines.
 * Cheers. Phil wink (talk) 20:48, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * 1) I added a source.
 * 2) I added lines of the poem (which consists of six stanzas).
 * 3) I don't think all femininine endings are bad in English verse, and I don't think all masculine endings are bad in Polish verse, either. You are right, someone can write a long poem in English using only feminine endings (like Robert Browning in One word more) or in Polish using only masculine endings, when they are unrhymed. But when You read some dozen poems by poets of the "Young Poland" (end of 19th century), who enjoyed using masuline rhymes, You are fed up with that. (22:54, 25 August 2016 (UTC))


 * Thanks. Re tone: I may try to make it just a little more somber then. Phil wink (talk) 23:50, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * You can experiment, but I think this version is good enough. It is said that Horace, when shooting a bow, hits his aim mostly at the first time. On the other hand, Adam Mickiewicz - as far as I know - made five versions of the first line of "Akerman Steppe", the first of the "Sonnets from the Crimea". Of course, there can be two versions, suitable for different purposes.

Lament XVI

 * Text and translation



Because of my misfortune and my sorrow, Which pierces all my body to the bone, I am compelled to abandon my lute and my fair rhymes And almost my soul, too.
 * Literal translation

Sapphic stanza in Polish poetry
 * Target article

Polish sapphics
 * Target prosody

Wyatt
 * Target tone

Discussion
Even though the "a" rhyme is a slant-rhyme, I thought it was too on-the-nose not to use. The English short line does not have the punch of the Polish, but nothing better has come to mind yet. I have not attempted to duplicate the rhythms of the "o o o" syllables, only the characteristic "S s" of the hemistich and line endings. Phil wink (talk) 03:09, 25 September 2016 (UTC)