User:Pldx1/Factions/Seoin (Joseon political faction)

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The Westerners (Hangul: 서인, Korean: Seoin, literally West Person, Hanja:西人) was a political faction that dominated Korea in the 17th century. In 1567, the Sarim split into the Easterners and Westerners. The Westerners remained the main contender of the Easterners in the Seonjo age, with Yi I as one of the most influential Westerners.

The Westerners lost power in the later years of the Seonjo age, and the Easterners and the factions that split from the Easterners had power throughout the last decade of the Seonjo age and the entirety of the Gwanghaegun age. However, the Westerners ousted Gwanghaegun from power in 1623, making Prince Neungyang king and causing the Westerners to regain power, which they had lost for a generation.

The Westerners had power for half a century, from 1623 to 1674, in which they were relatively unified. The era also led to the appearance of powerful Westerner politicians such as Song Si-yeol, Song Jun-gil, and Kim Su-hang, of which Song Si-yeol was the most influential. the Yesong debate of the Hyeonjong era finally toppled the Westerner government, and a Southerner government ruled for six years, until 1680.

The Westerners regained power in 1680 with the Gyeongsin Hwanguk. However, there was a dispute between the younger Westerners and the older Westerners in 1682 on whether Kim Ik-hun, one of the figures who had brought down the Southerners in 1680, should be punished. The younger Westerners thought that Kim should be punished, while the older Westerners did not. When Song Si-yeol took the side of the older Westerners in 1683, the younger Westerners were infuriated at Song. Those who wanted Kim to be punished became known as the Soron (young learning), while those who continued to follow Song became the Noron (old learning). With the Hoeni Dispute in 1684 between the Noron scholar Song Si-yeol and the Soron scholar Yun Jeung, the Westerners were divided forever.

History: Division from Sarim
After the death of Queen Munjeong and her brother Yun Won-hyeong in the late Myeongjong period, the Sarim faction, which had endured four literary purges throughout the sixteenth century, came to power as the dominant political faction. At the time, the Sarim were united as a single faction.

In 1574, the official Kim Hyo-won was nominated for the position of Ijo Jeongrang, which had the privilege of promoting scholar-officials, including the next Ijo Jeongrang. However, Sim Ui-gyeom, the brother of Queen Insun, opposed Kim's promotion on the grounds that Kim had often bribed Yun Won-hyeong, who massacred many of the Sarim in 1545. Despite Sim's protests, Kim was promoted.

The next year, Sim Chung-gyeom, the brother of Sim Ui-gyeom, was nominated for the next Ijo Jeongrang. However, Kim Hyowon, who had the right to appoint his successors, claimed that Sim was unsuitable for the position because he was the brother of Queen Insun (brothers of the queen were regarded to be more corrupt, as in the Yun Won-hyeong example). Yi Bal became the next Ijo Jeongrang.

The incident resulted in a large political debate on whether Kim Hyowon's actions were just, titled the Eulhae Dangron ('factional strifes of 1575'). Supporters of Kim included Kim U-ong, Yu Seong-ryong, Heo Yeob, Yi San-hae, Yi Bal, Jeong Ji-yeon, Wu Seong-jeon, and Jeong Yu-gil, while major supporters of Sim were Jeong Cheol, Yun Du-su, Park Sun, Kim Kye-hwi, Gu Sa-maeng, Hong Seong-min, and Shin Heung-shi. The people who took the side of Kim became known as 'Easterners', because Kim's house was in Geoncheondong (now Inhyeon) to the east of Seoul, while the supporters of Sim, who lived in Jeongreungbang to the west of Seoul, became known as 'Westerners'. The controversy forever split the united Sarim into two opposing parties. The controversy forever split the united Sarim into two opposing parties.

The Westerners of 1575 were the older members of the Sarim, who had taken office before the Sarim took power. Therefore, they tended to be more conservative, and they were more contemptuous of Easterner ideologues such as Jo Sik or Yi Hwang. The Westerners were by far the minority within government.

History: Dispute with the Easterners and Northerners
In the 1570s, the conflict between the Easterners and Westerners intensified, despite efforts by people such as Yi I or Seong Hon to reconcile the hostile groups together. However, because both Yi and Seong attempted to be completely neutral towards both parties despite the Easterners being much larger, the Easterners believed that they were biased towards the Westerners.

In 1575, Yi I was an advisor to Seonjo, and advised the king to send both Kim Hyowon and Sim Euigyeom as officials in faraway counties. Seonjo followed Yi's advice and sent Kim as the governor of Buryeong, a small town approximately 650 kilometers northeast of Seoul, whereas Sim was made the governor of Gaeseong, a major city 70 kilometers northwest of Seoul. This angered the Easterners, as it seemed as if Seonjo was taking Sim's side. Thus to reconcile the Easterners, Yi I claimed Kim had a serious disease, unsuitable as a governor of the far north. Seonjo then moved Kim as a governor of Samcheok, a town slightly larger than Buryeong, 150 kilometers to the east of Seoul.

However, the Easterners, who were by far the majority in court, were not pleased that Yi I was apparently neutral in the conflict, when they believed that Sim Ui-gyeom had clearly wronged. However, Yi I believed that both Kim and Sim had done both good and bad things, and thus that being neutral was the most logical position. Yi I therefore believed that both sides were equal in their deeds and misdeeds.

Despite his beliefs, Yi I began to worry that his attempts at reconciliation were meaningless because the Easterners still saw him as biased towards the Westerners. To do so, he wrote an advice for the king to fire Sim Ui-gyeom and gave it to the Easterner Jeong In-hong, asking him to not change anything in the advice. However, Jeong added the single sentence "gathers other officials to create a faction" in the list of Sim's misdeeds in the advice. When Seonjo asked Jeong who "the other officials" were, Jeong replied that it was Jeong Cheol and the Yun Du-gu brothers, who were at the time the sole Westerners in court. Yi I was angered that Jeong had changed the words of his advice, forcing Jeong to revoke his former words by saying that though Jeong Cheol had done much wrong, he did not create a faction. He then retired to his hometown, causing the Easterners to be furious at Yi I. Both Yi I and Jeong Cheol were forced to step down, while Sim Ui-gyeom stayed in court. Despite Yi's later return, the outnumbered Westerners were powerless to stop the Easterners, leading to an Easterner government until 1589.

In October 1589, the Westerners Han Jun, Park Chunggan, Yi Chuk, and Han Eungin claimed that the Easterner scholar Jeong Yeo-rib was secretly plotting to be king himself. Jeong fled to the nearby Juk Island without destroying his letters or books and performed suicide. The supposed treason of Jeong opened a chance for the Westerners to regain their power. Seonjo made the Westerner Jeong Cheol oversee the investigation of the treason, and the Westerners, who had lost power for a decade, were vengeful. The Yeongeuijeong (the premier) of the time, No Susin, was first sentenced to death, but was finally exiled due to his high status. The Ueuijeong,

Jeong Eonsin, was exiled due to their connections with Jeong Yeorib.

One of the most influential Easterners, Yi Bal, died under torture, as did his brothers. Jeong Gaecheong, the adopted son of the Westerner minister Park Sun, was also exiled because he had betrayed his adopted father to side with the Easterners. A highly controversial death was that of Choe Yeong-gyeong. Jeong Yeo-rib claimed the existence of an entity named 'Gil Sam-bong', who to lead the rebellion. Despite the testimonies about 'Gil Sambong' not being matched on crucial topics like age, height, or appearance, the search for him continued. One of the Westerner advisers claimed that Choe Yeong-gyeong, an Easterner scholar of Honam, was in fact the 'Gil Sambong'. Choe died under torture in 1590. Killing a thousand Easterners, more than the four literary purges combined, the purge furthered the distance of the two factions as eternal enemies. However, the new Westerner government did not last for long. In 1590, the Easterners Yi San-hae and Yu Seong-ryong and the Westerner Jeong Cheol were the highest officials, the Jeongseung. At the time, Seonjo had not appointed a crown prince, although he was already nearing forty and had many sons, of whom the eldest was Prince Imhae. However, Imhae, in contrast to the younger Prince Gwanghae, was a well-known troublemaker, causing most of the

officials to believe that Gwanghae should be the Crown Prince.

However, Yi San-hae knew that Seonjo was much closer to Prince Sinseong than to either Imhae or Gwanghae. Yi also knew that both Jeong Cheol and Yu Seong-ryong wanted Gwanghae as crown prince, and that Yu was more cautious. Yi San-hae so decided to bring down Jeong Cheol and the Westerners by telling Lady In, Prince Sinseong's mother, that Jeong was planning to kill her and Sinseong after he had made Gwanghae the Crown Prince.

Meanwhile, the Easterners Yu Seong-ryong, Yi San-hae, and the Westerner Jeong Cheol promised each other that they would ask Seonjo to make Gwanghae Crown Prince together. However, Yi did not appear at the promised date (he claimed he was ill). The less-cautious Jeong Cheol was the first to advise Seonjo to make Gwanghae Crown Prince, and Seonjo was infuriated, believing that the story told by Lady In was true. Seonjo exiled Jeong Cheol and other Westerners recreating an Easterner government. Around this time, the Easterners split into two, the Southerners and the Northerners.

In 1592, the Japan invaded Korea with 200,000 soldiers as a result of Toyotomi Hideyoshi's attempt to conquer the Ming Dynasty. Because the Northerner-Southerner government had failed to prepare for the war, the Westerners became powerful again, though not as powerful as in the purge of Jeong Yeo-rib. The Westerners attacked Yi San-hae for claiming that the king Seonjo should abandon the capital (which he did, fleeing to Uiju), and Yi was fired. The crisis of the Japanese invasion (they occupied up north to Pyongyang), however, caused a cessation of political feuds for a time.

With the temporary retreat of the Japanese army in 1595, political feuds renewed. This time, the Northerners claimed that Jeong Cheol had killed Choe Yeong-gyeong for private reasons during the purge of Jeong Yeo-rib, and that Seong Hon did not save Choe despite Seong's ability to do so. The Westerners refuted that Jeong attempted to save Choe. Seonjo took the Northerners' side, saying 'The evil Jeong Cheol and the sly Seong Hon killed my just minister". The feud between the Westerners and the Northerners had ended with a Northerner victory.

With the Westerners gone, the Northerners removed the Southerners from the court and created a completely Northerner government in 1598. In 1599, the Northerners divided into the Lesser Northerners (of Nam Yi-gong) and the Greater Northerners (of Yi San-hae). While the two Northerner factions feuded, the Westerner remnants had little power.

In 1611, the Greater Northerner Jeong In-hong ferociously attacked the scholars Yi Hwang and Yi Eon-jeok. Some Westerners refuted Jeong's attack, but refutations against Jeong were also done by the Southerners and Lesser Northerners.

History: Gain of power and the Injo era


Despite the Northerner government of the early seventeenth century, the Westerners still existed, led by students of Yi I or Seong Hon, such as Kim Jang-saeng. Meanwhile, some Westerners, notably Yi Gwi, Kim Ryu, and Choi Myung-kil, had low seats in the government.

In 1618, the Greater Northerners exiled Seonjo's wife Queen Inmok under King Gwanghaegun's support. Because the Confucian ideology of the time meant that the wife of the former king was regarded as the mother of the current king (even in the case that she was not the present king's true mother), the act was seen as a son exiling his mother, thus a terrible sin against filial piety, or hyo. This, along with a purely Northerner government that excluded other factions such as the Westerners or Southerners, caused Gwanghaegun and his Greater Northerner government to lose the support of the Neo-Confucian scholars and be thrown into isolation.

The Westerner remnants, led by Yi Gwi, saw Gwanghaegun's recent loss of support from the scholars as a chance for the Westerners to regain power, and decided to stage a coup to bring down Gwanghaegun. Yi plotted with his sons, Yi Si-baek and Yi Si-bang, and they introduced their friends, Kim Ja-jeom and Choi Myung-kil, to the plot. They also plotted with Prince Neungyang, whose younger brother had been executed by Gwanghaegun.

Meanwhile, another Westerner, Kim Ryu, was plotting with the general Sin Gyeong-jin to bring down Gwanghaegun as well since 1620. Sin made contacts with Yi Gwi and his followers, and Kim Ryu and Yi Gwi allied. The plot, however, leaked, and in 1622 the advisers of the king advised Gwanghaegun to torture Yi Gwi. However, Kim Ja-jeom bribed Kim Gae-si, a courtly maid who Gwanghaegun trusted, and she told Gwanghaegun that he should not torture Yi. Gwanghaegun, already cautious about the overly powerful Greater Northerners, followed her advice.

On March 12, 1623, Yi Gwi's forces gathered while Gwanghaegun was partying. Kim Ryu was late, so another general, Yi Gwal, took the place of commander until he came with his own army, and a guard who had joined Yi Gwi's plot then opened the door. Gwanghaegun was captured and dethroned two days later, and Prince Neungyang was crowned king the same day.

Although the Westerners had ousted the Northerner government of Gwanghaegun, they had not had power for a generation, and thus the early Injo government required an alliance of various factions. The Southerner minister Yi Won-ik became the prime minister immediately after Gwanghaegun's expulsion. However, power was in the hands of the Westerners; Yi Gwi was made the Ijo Champan (the vice minister of civil service affairs, who had the power to appoint people as officials), while Kim Ryu was made the Byeongjo Champan (the vice minister of defense), meaning that the Westerners were in control of both the appointment of new officials and the military.

However, the Westerner Kim Sang-heon felt that Yi Gwi and Kim Ryu were living luxurious lives contrary to what Confucian ideals demanded, thus causing a temporary split of the Westerners into the Merit Westerners (공서, 功西) of Yi Gwi and Kim Ryu and the Clear Westerners(청서, 靑西) of Kim Sang-heon.

In 1637, Kim Ryu suggested Nam Yi-gong, the head of the Lesser Northerners, as the Daesaheon. The reason for Kim's suggestion was because the majority of the Westerners liked Yi Gwi rather than Kim, and therefore, for Kim to increase his influence, he had to ally with the Northerners. The younger Westerners, who already preferred the recently dead Yi Gwi to Kim Ryu, opposed Kim Ryu's suggestion, and the Merit Westerners split into the Old Westerners (노서, 老西) and the Young Westerners (소서, 少西).

In the later 1640s (the late Injo reign) Kim Ja-jeom's power grew enormously because he supported the exchange of the Crown Prince from Prince Sohyeon's son (Sohyeon died in 1645) to Hyojong, and because he also supported the execution of Sohyeon's wife Lady Gang. Kim Ja-jeom was pro-Qing, and the other pro-Qing ministers gathered around Kim as the Nakdang (낙당, 落黨) faction. The faction was called 'Nakdang' because 'Nakseo' was the courtesy name of the leader of the faction, Kim Ja-jeom, and the first syllable in 'Nakseo' was combined with 'dang', meaning 'faction'.

The Nakdang conflicted with the Wondang (원당, 原黨) faction, centering on Won Du-pyo. The Wondang got their name from the surname of Won Du-pyo combined with 'dang'.

So when Injo died in 1649 there were four Westerner factions in government, the Merit Westerners, the Young Westerners, the Nakdang, and the Wondang. However, despite the division of the Westerners in the Injo reign, the era remained a Westerner one, with Southerners such as Yun Seon-do excluded from the government.

History: Hyojong era and the emergence of the Sandang
A day after his ascent to the throne in May 1649, the new king Hyojong invited the scholar Kim Jib and his students, Song Si-yeol, Song Jun-gil, Yi Yu-tae, Yun Seon-geo, and Yu Gye.

Kim Jib was the son of Yi I's best student, Kim Jang-saeng, and was also the best student of his father, who was also a famous Westerner scholar. With the appearance of Kim Jib and his students, various Westerner factions, such as the Clear Westerners or the Young Westerners, merged into the newly formed faction of Kim Jib. The new faction of Kim, the most famous Westerner scholar of his time, became known as the Sandang (산당, 山黨), or 'Mountain Faction'. They were, as their name suggests, based on mountain schools, especially in the Hoseo region.

The new Sandang conflicted with the most powerful faction just prior to Injo's death, the Nakdang of Kim Ja-jeom. Kim Hong-uk of the Sandang began the battle against the Nakdang by attacking Kim Ja-jeom himself, and on September 13, 1649, influential members of the Nakdang such as Im Jung or Yi Cheon-gi were fired at Song Jun-gil's request. Finally, on February 13, 1650, Kim was exiled to Hongcheon and his sons were sent to faraway places to serve as generals.

In 1651, Yeong-ui, a maid of Injo's son Sungseon, confessed that Gwiin Jo, a concubine of Injo and Sungseon's mother, had secretly done shamanistic rituals to curse the Injo's queen, Queen Jangryeol. Yi Yeong, a county magistrate, had a father-in-law who was the cousin of Gwiin Jo, and also friends with Kim Ja-jeom. Worried that the decline of the Nakdang would influence his career, he revealed that Kim was secretly planning a treason.

Kim's son, Kim Sik, claimed that he had planned with generals and magistrates near Seoul as to kill Won Du-pyo (the leader of the Wondang), Song Si-yeol (the leader of the Sandang), and Song Jun-gil (caused the exile of Kim) and to make Prince Sungseon the king. Kim Ja-jeom also confessed, saying that the plan was to revolt in March 1650, but that the exile of himself and the scattering of his sons had caused the plan to be delayed. Kim was quartered with his sons, as was the punishment for treason at the time, while Gwiin Jo was beheaded. The execution of Kim Ja-jeom marked the collapse of the Nakdang.

Meanwhile, the Westerners divided after the collapse of the Nakdang. The new battle between the Westerner factions were between the Sandang and the Handang (한당, 漢黨). The name originated from the first syllable of the medieval name for Seoul, Hanyang, combined with dang. Unlike the Sandang of the Hoseo region, the Handang were rooted in Seoul, and valued practicality rather than Neo-Confucian ideals. The leader of the Handang was Kim Yuk, a fierce proponent of the Daedong Policy. Taxes were originally paid in regional commodities, which were often nonexistent in the region. As a result, some people bought various commodities from different regions and sold them, lessening the difficulty of acquiring the commodities. However, the commodity sellers bribed the magistrate to accept only their products as taxes and raised the price of the commodities explosively, causing taxes to be much more costly then they were before.

Because the cost of taxes had rose astonishingly high, it was proposed that taxes be collected by rice (the vast majority of Korean farmers at the time grew rice, making taxes much easier to acquire), rather than regional commodities. The proposed law which enabled taxes to be collected in rice was called the Daedong Policy, and in the Hyojong era the law was already enacted in the Gyeonggi and Gangwon provinces. Kim Yuk proposed the law to have effect in the Chungcheong and Jeolla provinces as well.

Besides Kim Yuk, Jo Ik and Sin Myeon supported the Daedong Policy, and they formed the Handang centered on Kim Yuk. However, Kim Jib, the Sandang ideologue, said that the Daedong Policy was not a good law, and Kim Sang-heon, Song Si-yeol, and other Sandang members agreed with him. The resistance of the Sandang to the Daedong Policy caused conflicts between the Sandang and the Handang.

In 1656, Kim Jib died, leaving the Sandang to be headed by Song Si-yeol and Song Jun-gil, who were called the Two Songs (yangsong). Within the Two Songs, Song Si-yeol was considered to be a greater scholar than Song Jun-gil, and Song Si-yeol naturally became the Sandang leader. Meanwhile, with the death of Kim Yuk in 1658, the Handang were led by Kim's sons, Kim Jwa-myeong and Kim U-myeong.

History: Disputes with the Southerners in the Hyeonjong era
By the Hyeonjong era (1659-1674), the conflicts between Southerners and Westerners intensified with the Yesong Dispute.

The Yesong Dispute had its roots in Confucian philosophy. When a specific family member died, the rest of the family were required to wear mounrning robes for up to three years. The problem was that the Chinese text Etiquette and Ceremonial and the Korean text Five Rites of the Dynasty dictated somewhat differently on the matter of sacrificial rites. The two texts dictated the following.

Injo's wife, Queen Consort Jaui, was alive in 1649. Although the Queen Consort was not the true mother of Hyojong (Injo remarried, and Hyojong was the son of his first wife), by the rules of the Joseon court the Queen Consort was the mother of Hyojong, and therefore the Queen Consort had to wear a mourning robe for her stepson. Most Westerners believed that the proper time for Queen Consort Jaui to wear the mourning robe was a year, because Hyojong was the second son of Injo (the eldest son being Prince Sohyeon, who died in 1645.). However, Yun Hyu, a Southerner, believed that because Hyojong had inherited the line of Injo and because Sohyeon had died earlier than Hyojong, Hyojong was the eldest child by the doctrines of Etiquette and Ceremonial, meaning that the Queen Consort should wear the mourning robe for three years.

Song Si-yeol, meanwhile, thought that Hyojong was a Seoja, because Etiquette and Ceremonial said that all sons excepting the eldest son whose mother was not a concubine were called Seoja. Therefore, Song claimed that Queen Consort Jaui should wear the mourning robe for a year.

Because Song Si-yeol and Song Jun-gil had almost absolute power by 1659, the mourning robe of the Queen Consort was decided as a year. But ten months later, in 1650, Heo Mok wrote an essay detailing the reasons for the Queen Consort having to wear a three-year robe. Heo believed that the reason for parents wearing three-year mourning robes for their eldest sons was because the eldest son inherited the line of the father. Thus, the reason that the eldest son was special was not because they were the first male child, but because they continued the male line. Because Hyojong had inherited Injo's line, Hyojong's death required a three-year mourning robe.

In response to Heo, Song Jun-gil attacked Heo's beliefs by saying that if Heo was right, if the first, second, third, and fourth sons all died before the father died, with the older sons dying first, the father would have to wear three-year mourning robes for all four sons. He also promoted the definition of Seoja as all sons other than the eldest son. Heo then rebutted his original statement by saying that the reason for a three-year mourning robe for the eldest son was because the eldest son generally inherits the line of the father, therefore meaning that if the second eldest son inherited the line, his death also merited a three-year mourning robe. He also said that Prince Sohyeon had remained a prince, but Hyojong had become a king of a nation, and as kings were higher than princes it had to be that the mourning robe for Hyojong had to be at least as Sohyeon.

The Westerner Won Du-pyo agreed with Heo, advising Hyeonjong to change to a three-year mourning robe. Then, Song Si-yeol attacked Heo himself, saying that there could logically be only one eldest son, and that Seoja also had an additional meaning of all non-eldest sons. Song also said that the second eldest son being the eldest son referred to second eldest sons inheriting the line when the eldest son died in infancy or childhood (Sohyeon was thirty-three when he died), and that if Hyojong's death required a mourning robe at least equal to Sohyeon's because Hyojong was a king, then the death of any king, even if he was the son of a concubine, required a three-year mourning robe, which was against both Etiquette and Ceremonial and the Five Rites of the Dynasty. Hyojong then said that it was not right to argue that everyone ought to wear a three-year mourning robe for a king's death, because the Queen Consort was a queen when Hyojong was only a prince, meaning that the Queen Consort was above Hyojong in degree. He finally said that there was no great scholar to decide on the mourning robe, and that it was necessary to do what was certain (The Five Rites) and leave the decision of what was right or wrong to the future.

Then, Yun Seon-do, an influential Southerner, replied. He first said that the Etiquette and Ceremonial directly said that the death of sons who are not the eldest but inherit the line also require mourning robes for three years, and therefore that it was unnecessary to bring up the term seoja. He then said that it was illogical that a second son whose mother was not a concubine and who had inherited the father's line and become a king would never be a true inheritor of the line, and sarcastily asked if a king who was a second son was a "false crown prince" and a "regent emperor", and if the second son could not "reign as king to the descendants of the first son". He finally said that the title of "Crown Prince" was equivalent to the eldest prince, and therefore Hyojong was the eldest son, whose death required a three-year robe. He then attacked Song Si-yeol's argument based on the impossibility of two eldest sons, saying that all that meant was that there could not be two eldest sons at the same time. He then attacked Song's claim that it was unnatural for the Queen Consort, of a higher rank than Hyojong, was to wear a mourning robe that children wore for parents by pointing out that it was just as unnatural for parents to wear three-year mourning robes at their eldest son's death. He finally said that he was not a wise person and that it was natural for some contradictions to occur in his argument, but that if his argument was logical it was naturally true.

Hyojong, who was wary of the power of the Sandang, ordered a low level of punishment; stripping him of his honors and sending him back to the country. However, the Sandang continued their attack against Yun, and Hyeonjong was forced to imprison him in Samsu, near the northern border. Yun's attack was burned.

However, many of the philosophers and scholars of the day supported Yun's opinions. Six days before Yun's exile, Gwon Si, a friend of Song Si-yeol, said that "Although I am soaked with sweat at the sight of Yun's writing", "there is no doubt that the Queen Consort ought to wear a three-year robe." Won Du-pyo, still an influential figure in the court, also supported the Southerners. The matter was brought to court on May 3, 1660, and as Yun Hyu, the Southerner who had brought the matter up in the first place, only said "In this great event each man, great and small, had his own thoughts on the matter and so Your Majesty must decide with your wisdom." while the other, Westerner ministers supported Song, the Southerner opinion was discarded.