User:Rachack/Shachne Zohn/afd


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was  delete. Jayjg (talk) 04:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Shachne Zohn

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

This was listed as a speedy, and while I concur that the article should be deleted, I believe that a more comprehensive review is warranted since the subject received some press coverage and the nature of the article may make its deletion without a full discussion divisive. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 19:01, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I just want to point out that most of the Orthodox Jews are probably busy right now in preparation for the Passover Holiday, and probably won't get to see this discussion for another week... --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 00:31, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Religion has no relevance to this debate, which is primarily about notability. andy (talk) 09:54, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Concur. The forum is certainly large enough to give this article a fair and proper assessment. Respectfully, Agricola44 (talk) 14:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC).


 * Delete - good point about the nature of the article. He's a former dean of what is, basically, a school but he's not mentioned in the article about it. He doesn't seem to have done much else worthy of note except have a weird dream. So, fails WP:N and probably WP:FRINGE. andy (talk) 19:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * He is now mentioned in the article - someone added his name after this AfD began. Presumably prior to this nobody thought he was worth bothering about? andy (talk) 19:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep per what I said on Talk:Shachne Zohn. --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 00:31, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:44, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. No GS cites so fails WP:Prof #1 and other Prof categories. There are some gnews hits about his dream. Notabilty seems to be weak and in WP:BLP1E. Xxanthippe (talk) 01:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC).
 * Delete. The only chance at a keep would be WP:PROF #6.  He was the dean of a higher education institute.  Joe407 (talk) 22:54, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:Prof per above. Culturalrevival (talk) 01:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per רח"ק and per Notability (academics) #6, which states: "The person has held a major highest-level elected or appointed academic post at an academic institution or major academic society". Dean of Yeshiva Torah Vodaas certainly fits the bill. Yoninah (talk) 18:59, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Correction. As I understand it this Yeshiva takes K-12 boys. Footnote #1 at Notability (academics) states: "School teachers at the secondary education level, sometimes also called professors, are not presumed to be academics and may only be considered academics for the purposes of this guideline if they are engaged in substantial scholarly research and are known for such research. They are rather evaluated by the usual rules for notability in their profession". The definition of "academic" is very clearly intended to be someone in a higher education institute such as a university. Moreover "scholarly" has a very narrow definition in this guideline - e.g. footnote #2 states that "citations need to occur in peer-reviewed scholarly publications such as journals or academic books". There is no evidence that the subject of this article held an "academic" post in the meaning of Notability (academics), nor any evidence of peer-reviewed publication. Therefore other means of establishing notability must be provided. Which they haven't been. andy (talk) 19:47, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeshivas and secular academic institutions are two different things. Rosh yeshivas do not engage in "research" in the traditional sense, nor do they publish in "peer-reviewed" journals. If you're looking for respected yeshivas, though, Yeshiva Torah Vodaas is certainly right up there. I don't think the Wikipedia notability guidelines for academics applies at all to yeshiva personalities like Rabbi Zohn. Yoninah (talk) 20:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh? - you said in your !vote "Keep per... Wikipedia:Notability (academics)" but now you're saying "I don't think the Wikipedia notability guidelines for academics applies at all". So that's a Delete, then? andy (talk) 23:09, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Huh? I said "keep" because the subject is notable, having been a rosh yeshiva of a major yeshiva. (BTW, Joe407 cited the same Prof #6 to keep the Hillel Weinberg page, since Weinberg, as a rosh yeshiva, also "has held a major highest-level elected or appointed academic post at an academic institution".) Then you answered me by trying to prove from Prof #6 that Rabbi Zohn doesn't meet Wikipedia's academic notability standards. Then I replied, "You're right" &mdash; because the academic notability standards simply don't apply to yeshiva personnel; they are written solely for academicians in universities and other secular institutions. I think it's high time for someone to rewrite the academic notability standards to take yeshivas into account (which they don't at present), so we can easily see that a rosh yeshiva is someone of note. Yoninah (talk) 16:50, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions.  —רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 04:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spirituality-related deletion discussions.  —רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 04:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Conspiracy theories-related deletion discussions.  —רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 04:39, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.