User:Rcsprinter123/Adopt/Isarra

=Isarra= __NEWSECTIONLINK__ Hello, Isarra! As you know, most of the discussion will be taking place on IRC, but for anything we need to save, including tests and discussion, can happen here, your adoption HQ!  Rcsprinter  (chatter)    (Contribs)  ( Not Rcs )  20:51, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * But not discussion about fish, I suppose. Unless it's relevant. Whee!  — Isarra (talk)  21:08, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If you say so. Here are the tasks:
 * Patrol ten new pages from the back of the queue
 * Join a new WikiProject and do a task from their to-do list
 * Upload a new image for an article (Category:Wikipedia requested images may help) under the correct copyright
 * Report back here
 * Take as long as you need. I'll be waiting.  Rcsprinter  (yak)  21:15, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You'll check the patrolling for accuracy, I hope? The ones at the back tend to be there due to fuzziness, after all, and I'm still not entirely clear on the policies (or what they mean, for that matter). I'll poke at the other ones later. Any images I do will probably wind up on commons, though. Bloody hate copyright.  — Isarra (talk)  22:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course I'll check everything. You don't have to patrol from the back, it's just that usually from the front if you take some action (say CSDing) it can be considered a little BITEy. As always, just ask me to explain anything you don't understand, like policies. I'm here to help. Once you've completed the tasks and I've pointed out anything that could be improved, we'll have a chat about what you enjoy doing, what you'd like to do and what you don't like doing, and make you a better editor.  Rcsprinter  (yak)    (Contribs)  ( Not Rcs )  16:24, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

NPP

 * Xiong Yuan
 * Cheer Sticks - added a tag thing because I'm a horrible lazy person and think tagging stuff actually can be useful
 * Crascia Series - CSD A1 because I couldn't figure out what it was
 * ITunes Session (PJ Harvey EP)
 * Gratitud
 * Donny Montell
 * George S. Elrick

That's so far. Thoughts?  — Isarra (talk)  20:13, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Very good, you don't fail to disappoint. All of the above were fine. I trust you took the right decision with the CSD. Three more to go.  Rcsprinter  (deliver)  16:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh, thanks. And yeah, the admin agreed with the CSD, but on the other hand, I've mistagged a couple in the past and the deleting admin still went with the thing I'd put, so... that may not be saying much. On the other other hand, is it really so important that the deletion reason be entirely accurate so long as the thing does indeed merit deletion at least under a related reason (as opposed to mixing up an expired BLP PROD with a... F5 or something, I dunno), either?  — Isarra (talk)  01:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes and no. It is generally commended to put the correct deletion reason on a tag; putting a different one isn't wrong but is less likely to merit deletion. Also, that reason will stay on the delete log and somebody could pick you up on it for tagging it wrong.  Rcsprinter  (message)  16:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=patrol&user=Isarra&page=&year=2012&month=3 patrolled some more stuff], although I'm not entirely sure what I was doing with some of them.  — Isarra (talk)  05:38, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It's all fine. ✅

Image for an article
I've looked, but for something that would actually help an article that I could add... I seriously have got nothing. Maybe I'm just approaching this wrong or something, but...  — Isarra (talk)  01:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Category:Wikipedia_requested_photographs? There's a dozen categories for ideas. Maybe you have a free image hanging about that could be used, or you flick to a random article and see it needs one. Don't forget you can skip the task if you need to, but give me a good reason why. :)  Rcsprinter  (message)  16:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, there's this.  — Isarra (talk)  05:38, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool, well done. ✅. Going to find a wikiproject next?  Rcsprinter  (chat)  14:04, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikiproject
WP:TYPO has some disturbing lists of common typos - been fixing a few of them, though really a bot for that would help. Unfortunately I'm much too lazy to figure out how to get AWB working again (let alone get authorised to use it here), but... er, anyway, that work?  — Isarra (talk)  20:10, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Random questions
If that's all right; there have just been some things I've been wondering about.
 * On RfCs, AfDs, and other discussions, is it at all useful to come in, see someone who says something that seems very sensible, and then just say, 'I agree with that guy', but not have anything to add? On one hand it seems kind of redundant, but on the other hand, if people are after consensus...?  — Isarra (talk)  01:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikicup - what is that actually for? If you're taking part, perhaps you could say: does it motivate you? And/or if not, does it seem to motivate others? Or is it just a fun thing to do because why not? sort of thing?  — Isarra (talk)  01:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * People are allowed to say that they agree with somebody, they can either give reasons or just leave it at that. In AfDs, it is the strength of the argument that counts, not the number of !votes, so it is redundant in those, but in RfAs and such, it is the number of votes that count to give consensus, so in those you can say, 'Support as per . '
 * The wikicup is not really for anything, it just encourages editors to write content with a slightly competitive edge. It's fun too, motivating probably to those who get the high points. Have you entered it? If not, consider entering next year, it's a great way to get writing content.  Rcsprinter  (message)  16:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It may be allowed, but is it useful? Demonstrate that yeah, this is a shared notion, or something, I dunno. On the other hand, if it is, wouldn't whoever closes the thing have some sense of it anyway? Anyhow,I'm not really much of a content person, mon.  — Isarra (talk)  05:38, 10 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Would you be able to clarify - when does vandalism require revision deletion? The page seems pretty vague.  — Isarra (talk)  20:10, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If I want to have a three- or more-way discussion with multiple editors to whom the subject is specific, is there any right way to do that?  — Isarra (talk)  20:10, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you please remove the bouncy logo from your talkpage? When there's a banner or sitenotice, that just moves the image down further; it's currently covering the entire man navigation (as opposed to the most of it that it was previously).  — Isarra (talk)  20:10, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
 * (Sorted on IRC)  Rcsprinter  (state)  16:59, 12 March 2012 (UTC)


 * So what now? Is this the point where I wander off to some other project and get buried in backlogs? Because that always winds up utterly sucking. I can feel it, though... commons is calling to me... calling... Ghack! But seriously, er... that one thing. Yes. So much backlog... AAAGHH!  — Isarra (talk)  06:24, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, you can if you want, it's a free wiki. What we are going to do in the next stage of your adoption is have a talk about you as an editor. What are your prime motivations? What do you like editing/doing? Do you spend a lot of time here. Discuss. :)  Rcsprinter  (state)  16:59, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Note to anyone who reads this: the questions above have been answered on IRC.

Random
I need a hug.  — Isarra (talk)  06:49, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * * Rcsprinter hugs Isarra.
 * Thank you. >.<  — Isarra (talk)  20:49, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Right, shall we get this moving again? Let's move on to some actual lessons before some tasks (remember your current one is just to help out at #wikipedia-en-help when you can). How good are you at copyright? Would you like help explaining the rules? Or if not we can do templates, or maybe something else. This is a very loose adoption course where I just help you with stuff you don't know, so just ask. I'll make a better editor of you yet, Isarra!  Rcsprinter  (talkin' to me?)  15:24, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm paying attention. Totally. And man, things get weird when I put the spellchecker in the wrong language... but anyway, yes. Helpfulness. Usually there've been other folks handling things, so I'm inclined to leave it in their capable hands when they're there. And copyright... copyright is a horrific pain in the arse. CC is generally straight-forward enough, but GFDL has some damn strange stipulations and whatnot to the point where I'd rather just no touch it. I've been cleaning up and verifying file descriptions of files moved to Commons, and the bulk of them are just... whaaaat? So I've been ignoring those, but I think you get the idea. Applying the sort of thing to text can in a way be even more difficult, though, because how much do people need to change before it's just a reference? And such...
 * As for the templates here, they horrify me. Nests upon nests, full of switches and parsers and weirdnesses, but at the same time it's actually rather elegant, as this keeps them consistent and in form and ensures that people don't do too weird of crap with them... Wikipedia's templates are really rather infamous, you know. But what would you have in mind for the things? So far all I've really done is oggle some of them and go 'hmmm', as well as add filler to a few for a certain white cat. Fellow certainly acts like a cat. It's kind of scary at times.
 * I don't know anything, though, you know.  — Isarra (talk)  02:50, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Who changes their spellchecker language? Now, you seem to know what you are talking about with CC and GDFL, that's very true. Although we all wish we didn't have to mess about with copyright anytime we upload anything, it's a sad necessary. Good job with the Commons images. Someone will take care of them eventually.
 * Templates... Yeah, in a word. Most except the most complicated are full of parser functions and switches and stuff, although the syntax is really quite simple when you know what it means. Parser functions can help with anything you don't get, and there's always me. To be honest, most are pretty simple. You don't need a nest, or even any parameters. You can just transclude words. OK?  Rcsprinter   (lecture)  15:48, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Like this? Well, okay, not really...  — Isarra (talk)  19:26, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I was going to say something here, but then I accidentally clicked on something and the software ate everything I'd written. So then I was writing an explanation of that with a summary of what I'd written, but then I accidentally clicked on something else and then it ate that, too. So I give up.  — Isarra (talk)  09:36, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually, scratch that. I can summarise the summary - place big, me lost, what now?  — Isarra (talk)  09:55, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

And another thing, a trend of sorts I'm not liking at all - I'm bad with disagreements. Usually I get annoyed at people instead of trying to see where they're coming from or anything remotely productive; several times I've snapped at actually rather lovely folks (Σ, Ironholds, and Jorm come to mind) on IRC for various reasons that don't really bear going into, and it's not just there, either. On-wiki I've gotten rather irritated with people's !votes on certain discussions (such as mabdul's RfA) and reacted to those, and when I didn't understand what was going on with some templates... point is, how does one not do that? Just back away when it comes to it, at very least not say stupid crap... but how? Looking at ANI, there are plenty of folks who are far worse than I am, but that's still not terribly reassuring; on the other hand there are folks like Worm That Turned who are bloody amazing, and you yourself seem to be pretty good, too... honestly, I'm just at a loss, here, so if you have any ideas or wise words or whatnot... yeah.  — Isarra (talk)  09:55, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Task set 2: let's get you in gear

 * Yeah, that is a common weakness. Some people just point or don't drop the stick, but you don't seem too bad. Everybody can get on the bad side of nice people if they say the wrong thing, so you're not alone. Mabdul's RfA is a bit of a flop because of all this canvassing rubbish, I agree. In fact you were one of the first to comment! Your words seem pretty true, although I expressed it myself in French (see Support no. 56). Worm That Turned is a hero of mine, one of the best editors around. I wouldn't be surprised if he became a 'crat before the year is out. Thanks for calling me amazing, I really mean it. Right... tasks!


 * Keep helping in #wikipedia-en-help when possible
 * Participate in at least two AfD debates with reasoned comments. Please provide diffs in your reply.
 * That'll be all for now.  Rcsprinter  (converse)  11:25, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Funny you should bring up AfD - there are a couple articles I've been bemused at for awhile now, and while AfD seemed the thing, it also confused the hell out of me. See, I came across RaWrite and RaWrite2 awhile ago when an IP reverted a prior redirection of them, stating that they had in fact not been merged at all. Being thoroughly confused by the thing, I went and asked the guy who'd redirected them in the first place what his reasoning was and what he thought of the situation. His response [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Thumperward&diff=481486548&oldid=481486350 was thus], which seems sensible enough, but also leaves me a little lost. On one hand it doesn't even seem worth bothering with at all, especially since such software articles are apparently pretty normal, but on the other hand, the guy's right; they ain't notable, and redirecting them resolved it nicely previously. Should I take them to AfD, or just revert the IP, or ignore it, or what?  — Isarra (talk)  04:15, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, with regard to some of the other stuff, argh. Thank you, but argh. I usually only help in -help when nobody else is around, though... something about how they seem so hopeless. Then again, it's probably needed most then. Then again again, that also means there's nobody to bail me out when I monumentally screw up... um.
 * Less to the point, WTT would make a boring crat... but boring crats are generally a very good thing. *shifty eyes*  — Isarra (talk)  04:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * My, you're good at writing lengthy paragraphs! For the -help task, just try helping a bit more often, and if I'm not there when you do it I'll take your word for it. As for the AfD task, if you don't know where to find them, go to WP:AFD/Latest and there should be a log of all the latest AfD discussions. Reply back here!  Rcsprinter  (natter)  11:27, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I'd make them shorter, but I'm no good at that. No good at a lot of things, for that matter, like not WP:CANVASSING as I link this: Articles for deletion/RaWrite. Whoops.
 * More seriously, there's [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dick_Figures_(2nd_nomination)&diff=485861510&oldid=485284957 this one], but since I forgot to link any acronyms I doubt anyone will take me seriously.  — Isarra (talk)  08:41, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, the first one is good, you nominated something for deletion, but bad because that wasn't the task; One more please. Second one top marks, although you are right in saying you ought to link to a policy to back up your statement, although that isn't mandatory.  Rcsprinter  (Gimme a message)  11:36, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * And can you deny starting something is participation? Regardless, I'll get to another, but for now I must ask - when starting the things, who all ought to be notified, do you suppose?  — Isarra (talk)  04:49, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Technically, but I asked for comments. Notified, usually the page creator or major contributors.  Rcsprinter  (state)  12:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, here are [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Perverse_effects_of_vaccination&diff=486143624&oldid=485511075 some] [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Who_Wants_to_Be_a_Millionaire_(soundtrack)&diff=486138269&oldid=485820062 comments].  — Isarra ༆ 19:32, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey, two more! ✅.  Rcsprinter  (talk to me)  19:34, 8 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, continue being on IRC and vandal fighting, we can do some more tasks after I've caught up after you for a chat. :)  Rcsprinter  (state)  11:48, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

And something else...

 * I don't think I care much for huggle, though it makes for something not entirely terrible with which to sidetrack during lecture. A js with similar queue-generating and -handling capabilities, however, would be very nice. Slap that on Special:BlankPage and let whatever handle the rest... pity I'd be too incompetent to write that.  — Isarra (talk)  02:21, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe Igloo would be more to your taste.  Rcsprinter  (natter)  11:27, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * My apologies; I'm doing it again. Thank you for the pointer. >.<  — Isarra (talk)  14:14, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * And the pointy.  — Isarra (talk)  04:57, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Don't forget I'm here to answer any questions at all you have. I'm your kind of 'safety net' so you don't fall back in the river (trouble with admins), though I'm sure you'd never do that! :) One thing you can do that lots of serious editors like to do is visit the administrators' noticeboard. Have a single read down there, comment if you see fit, and see what you make of one of the most drama-y places around here! There is also the incidents admins' noticeboard to see, although that's more drama-y and 'let's block that guy' pile ons. There are also a whole host of other noticeboards you can help at, visible in the navbox at the top of those links I just gave you. The Help Desk and BLP noticeboard are some suggestions. Also the RfCs although we can look at those another time; I hope I'm not overwhelming you with too much stuff all at once!

Next, I'm going to set you a kind of goal that isn't a task as such, and you can take as long as you like on it. Simply... create an article. Anything you like. You can discuss ideas with me here, and I'll help you write it (but not actually insert content, it's your task) in your userspace, or wherever. Reply back here! Yours truly,  Rcsprinter  (message)  16:31, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Mmm, quite, though a lot of my questions have been winding up on IRC lately, sometimes not even publicly given the nature of a few of them. Perhaps I should stop asking about the administration of this poor place, though. It shouldn't affect me, should it? And if I have to ask if something's a bad idea, it probably is, isn't it... like trying to get arbcom to take a case about someone I don't even know would be a bad idea, wouldn't it?
 * Mmm, and WP:AN and WP:ANI are fun ones. Very entertaining reads. Also somewhat reassuring, since I often find I can point at something there and say to myself, hey, at least I'm not that bad. Does that make me a horrible person?
 * I have taken a gander at a few RfCs, but I've often found I just don't feel comfortable commenting due to a lack of familiarity with the areas, or I just can't bring myself to care one way or another. What does it matter how you capitalise that stuff? Can't people sust pick something already and be consistent, for crying out loud...
 * I do have an idea for an article, but that will have to wait until next week, possibly later. We'll see, though. Yes. Zulch!  — Isarra ༆ 22:34, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Very serious reads at WP:AN and WP:ANI. It's basically turned into a place for people to have long meaningless rants and argue with the admins, and then get blocked. That does not make you a horrible person. Oh no.
 * Common point with the RfCs, sometimes it's not worth getting involved. And very good with the article; I know you have a lot of coursework at the moment so I won't hurry you... I'll be here.  Rcsprinter  (Gimme a message)  11:07, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yay! -— Isarra ༆ 19:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

So I got sidetracked...
And I was looking through your userspace, and I decided to take that final test thing, sort of, despite the fact that it said not to do that on the thing. And in retrospect I'm not sure that was such a good idea.  — Isarra ༆ 04:52, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay - maybe not. Good job for trying and finding it though; even though I hadn't assigned it you yet! We'll try that after achieving some more goals and having more lessons and when we both have more time.  Rcsprinter  (constabulary)  10:39, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Some day I strive to become an experienced WP:WIKILAWYER.  — Isarra ༆ 15:46, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Shall we get started on this article, then? What is your idea?  Rcsprinter  (gossip)  10:33, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy to let you know once I've done some research; for now I'd rather not commit to anything until I'm certain that the topic meets GNG. Completely unrelatedly to anything at all, I also don't suppose I could interest you in washing a fairly bushy 2m tall palm tree for me? It's really dirty. Covered in... stuff. Also needs to be oiled for some reason, and I've never oiled a tree before. Not really relishing the idea of it, either, as unlike with an article, I have no idea where to even start with that.
 * That said, mon, I have to ask - would you be willing to consider my graduation at this point? I've learned enough to know my way around the wiki at this point, generally speaking, and for anything less clear that might come up, well, I know who I can ask. What say you? -— Isarra ༆ 08:25, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's good, I'll be here whenever you are. Now who washes palm trees? Can't they look after themselves? I don't know anything about them and can't help you with it, because you happen to be in a different continent. :) Starting an article? Write down your sources on the page you're writing it on, and expand on them. Maybe see the way it started in userspace for some of User:Rcsprinter123/Creations/my articles.
 * And yes, I do feel you have learned a lot and maybe it is time for you to move on. I am always here to ask any questions or just have a chat with, and this page will remain open. As this wasn't really an adoption programme for the reasons I think I explained at the top, I'm not going to graduate you but dismiss you from my services officially. I will help with the article too when I have time. Nice knowing you. Cheers,  Rcsprinter  (natter)  16:55, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Another question
Are you at all familiar with the WP:RFAR process? -— Isarra ༆ 19:41, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope. Why do you ask?  Rcsprinter  (talk to me)  20:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * A bad idea, that's all. -— Isarra ༆ 05:28, 9 May 2012 (UTC)