User:Rjanag/Lion RFC

We are looking for further input about whether using the full text of the poem is acceptable in this article. Some background on the discussion can be seen at Non-free content review; because the discussion there was not reaching consensus, I am opening an RfC here and will briefly outline the main issues so the discussion can be well-organized.

Things that are unclear about the poem so far (and we would be able to make a better decision if someone with the right sources could clarify them):
 * What is the copyright status of the poem (is it under Chinese or US copyright law, since Chao did most of his work in California)? Where & when did Chao write it? Do we know who in particular owns it now?
 * What was/is its intended use (creative work or educational example)?

Editors in favor of including the whole poem (at least in characters and pinyin) have raised the following arguments:
 * Overall, that copyright doesn't matter because the poem meets fair use for the reasons below...
 * The poem was intended as a linguistic example, not a creative work. Therefore it was intended to be reproduced (compare to List of linguistic example sentences) and doing so isn't hurting anyone's commercial opportunities since it wasn't meant to be commercial.
 * Poem already widely reproduced and linguistically significant
 * Useful for readers

Editors against including it have raised the following points:
 * There is no documentation of how Chao intended the poem to be used&mdash;saying it was intended as an educational example is speculation
 * WP:NFCC minimal use criteria: the whole poem is not necessary if a portion (such as the title) will suffice
 * Extra transcriptions also not necessary--the transcriptions have the same copyright status as the poem itself


 * On the Danish site we had a link to the .ogg-file from da:Pinyin, which is why I noticed this . I have mailed the Bejing Foreign Studies University (gjzxATfsuDOTeduDOTcn-Inquiry regards Zhao Yuanren):

你好.

我很对不起不能写整确的中文为解释解释我的求助.

To the Department 国际交流 at BFSU.

I am writing concerning the article 'Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den' on the English wikipedia. This language-example was written by Zhao Yuanren, and as of 28.th of October this year there have been raised the issue of copyright in relation to presenting that poem. Consequently no written or oral presentation of that poem can now be allowed on the English wikipedia.

It occurs to me, and others, that this is absurd. So, in this fashion, I hopefully ask you for help in this matter :

What is the copyright status of the poem (is it under Chinese or US copyright law, since Chao did most of his work in California)? Where & when did Chao write it? Do we know who in particular owns it now? What was/is its intended use (creative work or educational example)?

These specific questions has been formulated by another user on the English Wikipedia.

The current situation -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rjanag/Lion_RFC The issue -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content_review#Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den The article in question -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den

With many regards
 * I am puzzled by User:J_Milburn's stance relating to copyright . My personal impression on that topic is that copyright pertains to commercialization, and not to freedom of speech . Do we need to lodge a public declaration to the intent of use ? On patents at least that is not necessary . Sechinsic (talk) 11:41, 4 November 2009 (UTC)