User:ShyamDasUK/rebuttal Sept 2012

Actual reference is: - it is unbelievable how you can just change the title as much? The problem is that Gaudiya Vedanta Publications is unknown and unrecognized sectarian source. I have already conceded that some plain bio material can be used from it here but only for a bio data, it will be a laugh to just assume that one can claim to be an acharya or a 'prominent leader' on ones own website, and this would be accepted as 'reliable source'. Back to this article, sources were added, so I assume nobody will put rani in the corner. Wikidās ॐ 21:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikidās ॐ, Thanks for your help with expanding this article, and your patience with my inexperience being a wikipedia editor. Syama (talk) 04:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Sri Radha Vallabha (talk) 21:31, 14 May 2012 (UTC)Big libraries such as the New York Public Library have plenty of books published by Gaudiya Vedanta Publications/Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. One can easily find their books through internet booksellers such as Amazon or Abebooks. At present there are approx. 60 English titles published (and many titles in other languages). Gaudiya Vedanta Publications, and its main published writer Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja (writer of B.P. Kesava Gosvami's biography) may therefore be considered significant in contemporary Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

User:ShyamDasUK

Why is Gaudiya Vedanta Publications unknown, unrecognised, and sectarian? It is a highly respectable publishing operation with over 100 titles, in at least 7 languages (English, Hindi, Bengali, German, Spanish, Russian and Chinese) among others, who have printed at least a million books since 1996, and many before that as well, especially in Indian languages. (available in 5 languages in e-book format, free, here)

This seems to be a campaign against Srila Narayana Maharaja and even his Gurudeva, Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja, who gave sannyasa to Srila Prabhupada and was very dear to him (Prabhupada speaking about his sannyasa guru Sri B.P. Kesava Maharaja after his demise in 1968). Srila Prabhupada honoured his sannyasa guru Srila B.P. Kesava Maharaja in this letter.

You cannot delete a Vaisnava acarya from the pages of history simply because you do not like him! Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja was the founder of Sri Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, along with Srila Prabhupada, in 1940 - but you have deleted that institution from Wikipedia. The successor acarya was Srila Bhaktivedanta Vamana Maharaja - you have deleted him as well! He used to lead a parikrama of 20,000 Bengali pilgrims every Gaura Purnima (Feb-Mar), but you have convinced the non-devotee Wiki elite, who know little about these esoteric matters - to your profit - that he was not "notable", despite being a highly senior & respected Vaisnava (Bhaktivedanta Memorial Library).

The World Vaisnava Association (WVA), a non-sectarian umbrella group of Vaisnava societies, saw Srila Narayana Maharaja as a respectable enough source to publish the obituary he wrote for his dear god-brother - (BVVM obituary). Indeed, ISKCON itself felt it appropriate to post an obituary to Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, as did the VVRS/WVA (Visva-Vaisnava Raja-Sabha/World Vaisnava Association) (samadhi/funeral). Look at the photographs, how many people came to his funeral! In the temples that he and Srila Vamana Maharaja had built and maintained (Sri Devananda Gaudiya Math and Sri Kesavaji Gaudiya Math, Navadwip WB) - both large enough to accomodate 20,000 pilgrims on the annual parikrama.

Srila Narayana Maharaja himself made at least 10,000 initiated disciples, and hundreds of thousands of followers and well-wishers, both in India & worldwide. He travelled the globe at least 16 times, and along with his godbrother Srila Vamana Maharaja (vice-president and president Acaryas of Sri Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, respectively) maintained the 16 maths his guru B.P Kesava Maharaja had founded, and built new ones as well (such as Sri Rupa Sanatana Gaudiya Math, Seva Kunj, Vrindavan; Sri Giridhari Gaudiya Math, Govardhan; Sri Raman Bihari Gaudiya Math, Janakpuri, Delhi and Sri Keshavji Gaudiya Math (II) in Nadiya in India - and many all around the world as well, such as the New Vraja (Badger CA) community; Rose Temple, Venice CA and Gour Govinda Gaudiya Math, Birmingham UK (now divided into two, including Narayana Goswami Gaudiya Math).

Is not the construction of a building such as this, which I personally saw transformed from a building-site to this gorgeous temple in a very short time circa 2001, a marvellous achievement? How then can you and your collaborator aptly named "Ism schism", claim that he is a completely non-notable person? How many persons do you know who have constructed buildings of magnitude? Or who host festivals like this (please enlarge if need be), or this? (from http://vrindavanadhama.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/vrindavana-darshan.html )

There is a list of modern-day Gaudiya Vaisnavas, all of whom I respect, at the bottom of this page, but how many of them have initiated over 10,000 disciples, maintained 16 and built at least a dozen more temples (I have listed only the most notable above), travelled the world 15-20 times (beginning in 1996, aged 75!), written 73 English books and 43 books in Hindi, with followers translating 13 of them into German and 21 into Spanish (link)? If the list of modern Vaisnavas above each deserve their own Wikipedia entry (I have nothing against that), then doesn't Srila Narayana Maharaja, who achieved more than many or most of them?

You say his own historical accounts of the society which he was Vice President and initiating guru of are not valid, simply because it was him providing them. This would be as nonsensical as saying Bhagavad Gita As It is were bogus, simply because Srila Prabhupada was a member of the Gaudiya Math, or that Sripad Satsvarupa dasa Goswami's biography of Prabhupada were not valid evidence because he was Prabhupada's disciple and a member of his institution, ISKCON. Who better to write such books? Gita should be learned from a devotee, and a son or brother makes the best biographer. Likewise, Srila Narayana Maharaja is the best biographer for Srila Kesava Maharaja and Srila Vamana Maharaja, because apart from being a consummate and widely respected scholar, he was closest to them and knew them best.

He was awarded the Yuga Acarya (Teacher of the Millennium) award in Uchagaon, Varsana (Radharani's village in Vrindavan) in 2003; was honoured by Mr. John Alden, the Lord Mayor of Birmingham, UK, where he gave a lecture before various religious leaders, including the Bishop of Birmingham Dr. Chris Hewer; Mr. O.P. Sharma, MBE, President of Hindu Council of Temples, UK; and others from the Muslim faith, Church of Latter Day Saints, etc. (see here). He was also honoured with the title "Cultural Ambassador of the City of Houston" by the city Mayor, and was interviewed there on the radio (here). The tape of him accepting that honour is also available online, although it will take a little longer to find, since it is among 4000 videos and 7000 audio recordings of this prodigious acharya (spiritual teacher). (large selection of videos here) - (comprehensive collection here) - (full audio archive here).

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami Maharaja has the following list of websites dedicated to him or produced by his followers - this list is not exhaustive, but it serves to illustrate -

(NB: for original list, please see [http://www.purebhakti.tv/ PureBhakti.TV - left hand side of page) -

http://BackToBhakti.com

http://PureBhakti.com

http://ipbys.com

http://SrilaNarayanMaharaja.com

http://srilaprabhupada.com/

http://SrilaTrivikramaMaharaja.com

http://bvml.org/SGGM/index.htm

[Bhakti Centers World Wide - http://www.purebhakti.com/contact-us/centers-mainmenu-60.html]

http://youtube.com/user/krsnakarunya - videos here of the 1000's of pilgrims on parikrama

纯粹奉爱中文页

Pure Bhakti In Chinese

http://purebhaktichina.com/

Hindi

http://guruvani.com

Spanish

http://saranagati.org.ve

http://radharanikijay.tk

http://hari-katha.tk

English

http://GVPbookdistribution.com

http://Japaretreats.com

http://GoldenLord.com

Houston Texas Gaudiya Math - http://www.sggm.org/

http://www.shyam.org.uk

http://gaudiyamath.multiply.com

http://360darshan.com

http://KrsnaKatha.com

Houston Sanga - http://BhaktiYogaSchool.com

http://Bhaktibooks.info

http://bhaktistudies.com/

http://narayanamaharaja.com

http://gangamatas.com

http://bhaktibooks.net

Sanga Space - purekatha.ning.com/ [recently defunct, no doubt superceded by Facebook - but it was a thriving little devotee sanga in its time]

http://bhaktiprojects.info - this page alone demonstrates Maharaja is "notable".

Bhaktivedanta Memorial library - http://bvml.org - a vast archive, detailing the teachings & life history of many famous acaryas since 1486, including several whose biographies have been deleted from Wikipedia.

http://giriraj.com.au

http://FloridaVedicCollege.edu

http://shukasari.blogspot.com

http://youtube.com/user/devarsi

http://Harekrishnasociety.com

http://krishnathought.com

Philippines

http://krishnaphilippines.multiply.com

http://sevateams.com/sevateam/bhakti-yoga-society-philippines

Poland

http://purebhakti.pl

http://bhaktijoga.pl

Portuguese

http://vrindavanadhama.blogspot.co.uk

http://radhesyama.multiply.com

http://jornalharekrsnabrasil.blogspot.com

http://gvebrasil.blogspot.co.uk/

http://sadhanatimes.com.br

vidasimplesepensamentoelevado - http://gvebrasil.blogspot.co.uk/

Ukrainian

http://sadhusanga.com.ua

Italian

http://www.gaudiya.it

http://bhakti-italia.blogspot.com

Holland

gaudiyavedantanederland - http://gaudiyavedantanederland.blogspot.co.uk/

Vaisnava Netwerk Nederland - vaisnavasnetwerk.ning.com/ [now defunct, see Sanga Space above]

Zuivere Bhakti - zuiverebhakti.ning.com [ditto]

http://hollandsanga.blogspot.com/

Sweden

http://bhakti.se/

Lithuania

http://tyrabhakti.lt

S. Africa

http://purebhakti.co.za

Germany

http://harekrischna.de

Russian

http://RadioKrishna.ru

http://a108.net

http://PureBhakti.ru

http://prem-bhakti.com

Above are websites from at least 16 countries, dedicated to or about Srila Narayana Maharaja, in around 14 different languages.

Is this the sign of a person who is in no way "noteworthy"?

Or an institution Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti that is "in no way notable"?

I think not, and I think any fair-minded person would agree.

It seems there has been a concerted campaign to purge our Guru Maharaja from the annals of history, or from Wikipedia at least. A cursory Google search will show, there are also numerous hate pages about him. This proves two things - one, he was a controversial figure, bold & uncompromising (like his forebears, eg. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura) - and two, he was "notable" enough for an awful lot of self-interested or less knowledgeable persons to attack, slander & malign him. Such politically minded persons should not be allowed to continually delete the pages we post to honour and remember our spiritual masters. We do not attack your pages - why do you destroy ours?

Please Wikipedia editors! Stop deleting our hard work!

Stop belittling our affectionate guardians, our beloved Gurus!

I have seen 2 deleted pages (Bhaktivedanta Narayana and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Syamadas/Prajnana_Kesava ) which were carefully crafted, with lots of detail, and plenty of references, such as I have supplied above - cruelly deleted with no comeback, at the behest of persons who have a personal vendetta against these great saints of our modern times, because they feel their own institution threatened by them. On the contrary, they were great well-wishers of that Institution, founder members indeed - but that fact seems lost on these people. This is sectarianism, pure and simple.

I have also seen several editors burned out and leave on account of the harassment of constantly having their pages put up for deletion by these people. (user) Ism schism knew he was lying when he said that Srila Narayana Maharaja, a world-famous Guru, was not in the least bit notable. Gurudeva led annual autumn pilgrimages for over 55 years, latterly with 2000 participants in Mathura in Autumn (Vraja Mandala Parikrama) and over 15,000 pilgrims, all of them fed twice daily, in Navadvipa, West Bengal, in Spring (Navadvipa Parikrama).

Here's another page with 250 photos of him, and a Google search "Photos of Narayana Maharaja" produces this result - dozens and hundreds of photos - there are many more! Such as - 200 photos here - one of many albums taken by this one lady alone! There is a collection of galleries of photos here. If Srila Narayana Maharaja was so un-noteworthy, how did he attract so many people, who followed him to India and around the world, and why did they take so many photos of him?

I have supplied as evidence dozens of webpages, over 100 published books (some of which are on Amazon - here). That link shows around 40 of Srila Narayana Maharaja's books in print & available online - they are also distributed around the world on the street by devotees, just as Srila Prabhupada's are by ISKCON.

So, please tell me: What does one have to do to become notable?? Travelling the globe 16 times, having over 10,000 initiated disciples, hosting up to 20,000 pilgrims every year (in Feb/March alone) for decades, writing & publishing scores of books, translated into various languages; having dozens of webpages dedicated to you, in a dozen languages; thousands of photos, meeting Mayors, Bishops and being awarded honours both at home in India, and also abroad in the UK and the US; having 7000 lectures recorded and 4000 videos - all supplied above - yet all this does not seem to cut any ice in the wierd & wonderful world of Wikipedia!

I've a good mind to write to Mr. Jimmy Wales himself and ask him what he thinks. And for someone not notable, yesterday I set up a group on Facebook, "Re-instate Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja's Wikipedia page", and within under 24 hours, we have over 1250 members! (28-08-2012). Clearly there are plenty of people who not only think Srila Narayana Maharaja is noteworthy, worth following and sticking up for - they also actually worship him, as God's ambassador on Earth. This concept should be more than familiar with devotees of Gaudiya Vaisnava groups, such as ISKCON. Guru is as good as God, for Guru is the dear servant of God.

saksad haritvena samasta sastrair, uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih

kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya, vande guroh sri caranaravindam

"The spiritual master is to be honoured as much as the Supreme Lord, because he is the most confidential servitor of the Lord. This is acknowledged in all revealed scriptures and followed by all authorities. Therefore I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of such a spiritual master, who is a bona fide representative of Srī Hari [Kṛṣṇa]". Sri Gurvastakam, verse 7, by Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura (link)

Please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Sri Guru & Gauranga! Yours for harmony and co-operation, Shyam das (BVNM, UK)