User:Straif/LlyrNotes

In Welsh mythology, Llŷr (literally, "sea"???) is the father of a number of important characters, including Branwen, Manawyddan, and Bran the Blessed (Bendigeidfran). He is often compared with Lir from Irish mythology.

=The Mabinogion= Llyr himself only appears in a handful(or one?) of stories and references, however his children appear in many of them. In the Mabinogion, Llyr is named as the father (either directly or as a patronymic) in five of the stories.

Two of the Four Branches of the Mabinogi focus on several of his children.


 * Branwen, Daughter of Llyr from the second branch of the Mabinogion.
 * Manawyddan, son of Llyr from the third branch
 * Bendigeidfran - "Bran the Blessed" (bendigeid = blessed)

Two more children are mentioned:
 * Granwen son of Llyr in "Dream of Rhonabwy" is named as one of the 24 horsemen (?)
 * Caradawg Strong Arm, son of Llyr of the Sea (Dream of Rhonabwy, pg 183) Caratacus
 * Caradawg son of Llyr (Gereint and Enid, pg 172)

=Other Tales= In the Welsh Triads, Penarddun is the wife of Llyr and the mother of Branwen, Bran and Man.... Llyr is held captive by Eurossydd until Penarddun consents to sleep with him. The result was the twins Nisien and Efnisien.

Some other sources say that Iweriadd is the mother of Bran and Branwen. This would mean that Manawyddan was their half-brother and Nisien and Efnisien were only step-brothers.

In Welsh mythology, Llyr ?trans?, ?function? Llŷr ?offspring? ?stories?
 * Mid-Wales
 * Branwen, Daughter of Llyr from the second branch of the Mabinogion.
 * Manawyddan, son of Llyr from the third branch
 * Bendigeidfran - "Bran the Blessed" (bendigeid = blessed)

parallel to Lir

=Comparisons with Lir=
 * sea
 * manawyddan, Isle of Mann
 * half-tongue - Llyr Llediaith - need to look into this further...

=Llyr, Leir, and Lear=

Regardless of any common origin or relationship, the stories surrounding them are [very] different. OR
 * Regardless of any common origin or relationship, the stories surrounding them are so different, that to treat them as the same figure would be ???

Is Llyr ever mentioned as anything other than an eponym? yes

No relation to Llyr Llediaith, a king who may be the same person as Leir of Britain. -- I'm not sure this is true...

Gantz:
 * Granwen son of Llyr (Dream of Rhonabwy) (pg 190) one of the 24 horsemen
 * Caradawg Strong Arm, son of Llyr of the Sea (Dream of Rhonabwy, pg 183) Caratacus
 * Caradawg son of Llyr (Gereint and Enid, pg 172)
 * Triad 52 - Llyr prisoner of Eurosswydd (TYP - Bromwich 1961, pg 141)

From: Penarddun

In Welsh mythology, Penarddun was the wife of Llyr. With Llyr, she was the mother of Bran, Branwen, and Manawydan. Another man, Eurossydd, held her husband captive until she slept with him. The result was the twins Nisien and Efnisien.

=Original= In Celtic mythology, Lir ("the sea") was the god of the sea, father of Manannan mac Lir, Bran, Branwen and Manawydan by Penarddun and a son of Danu and Beli. He was held captive by Eurosswydd until Penarddun slept with him, giving birth to twins, Nisien and Efnisien. He had a daughter named Fionnuala by an unknown mother.

He is also called Llyr in Welsh. However, confusingly, Llyr is also used to refer to Llyr Llediaith, a king who may be the same person as Leir of Britain.