User:Sumple/CG Evidence


 * This is an archive of the evidence page at the arbitration case regarding Certified.Gangsta and Ideogram. I have preserved the state of the page just before the final revert by Penwhales for future reference in dealing with problem editor Certified.Gangsta, who really should be banned.

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form:.

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

Be aware that arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.

Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop. /Workshop provides for comment by parties and others as well as arbitrators. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact or remedies, arbitrators vote at /Proposed decision. Only arbitrators may edit /Proposed decision.

Starting with the basics: Edit warring
Certified.Gangsta and Ideogram have engaged in edit wars over and

Talk:Culture of Taiwan
Certified.Gangsta has been edit-warring over the removal of a WikiProject tag for quite a while. The first removal of the tag occured on October 18 of 2006.
 * 05:08, 18 October 2006 Revert 1, edit summary "rv pov pushing"
 * 00:34, 19 October 2006 Revert 2, edit summary "this is getting more and more outta control. taiwan isn't include on that project first off. saying china and taiwan are one country clearly violate the naming convention"
 * 00:34, 19 October 2006 Revert 3, no edit summary
 * 00:34, 19 October 2006 Revert 4, no edit summary
 * 05:06, 22 October 2006 Revert 5, edit summary "semantics, wikilawyering, and pov pushing"
 * 08:55, 29 October 2006 Revert 6, edit summary "public announcement of username change unrelated to this talkpage, whether taiwan is part of china is controversial, generalization is not allowed"
 * 09:10, 29 October 2006 Revert 7, edit summary "no reason, privacy concerns"
 * 09:38, 29 October 2006 Revert 8, edit summary "this is crazy, why would my usernmae change be announced on this talkpage?? and as for taiwan, putting this article in the project china is highly pov as far as i'm concerned"
 * 05:52, 1 November 2006 First attempt at discussion by Certified.Gangsta, no edit summary
 * 05:52, 1 November 2006 Revert 9, no edit summary
 * 18:58, 6 November 200 Revert 10, no edit summary
 * 08:33, 8 November 2006 Revert 11, no edit summary
 * 02:06, 9 November 2006 Revert 12, no edit summary
 * 23:02, 9 November 2006 Revert 13, no edit summary
 * 03:34, 20 November 2006 Revert 14, no edit summary
 * 07:42, 20 November 2006 Revert 15, edit summary "rv where did obasan, karaoke, hip-hop culture, and buddhism come from??"
 * 01:47, 24 November 2006 Revert 16, edit summary "rv"
 * 01:13, 25 November 2006 Revert 17, edit summary "rv blatant pov, care to justify this apparent pov pushing?"
 * 21:37, 25 November 2006 Revert 18, edit summary "rv see my takpage"
 * 00:48, 28 November 2006 Revert 19, edit summary "rv see discussion below"
 * 01:41, 11 December 2006 Revert 20, edit summary "pov pushing designation wouldn't be tolerated"


 * At this point, the edit warring moves to the article (see below for diffs) and Ideogram steps in 19 February 2007
 * Nearly a month later, the two engaged in a lengthy discussion about a "Taiwan related articles" template. See the thread here.

Culture of Taiwan

 * I'm only including the most relevant edit war here, although there were several "skirmishes" in the past.
 * 11:26, 16 February 2007 Ideogram removes two templates and two categories. Edit summary "rm nav templates and cats"
 * 01:05, 19 February 2007 Revert 1 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "reason??"
 * 03:36, 19 February 2007 semi-Revert 1 Ideogram, edit summary "cat Taiwanese culture is already in cat Taiwan and cat Republic of China. Don't just click on revert you idiot, THINK"
 * 03:45, 19 February 2007 Revert 2 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "your explanation doesn't make sense, that revert was irrelevant, the only idot is yourself"
 * 04:01, 19 February 2007 Revert 2 Ideogram, edit summary "don't include a topic in a cat and cats that include that cat. Can you understand that?"
 * 09:01, 25 February 2007 Reversion of several edits by Ideogram, Revert 3 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv please stop deleting large chunks of info without discussion. you're destoying the articler"
 * 10:32, 25 February 2007 Revert 1 Kusma, edit summary "rv readdition of large section on one individual TV show; why should that one show be so imprtant?"
 * 00:00, 26 February 2007 Restoration of header template originally removed by Ideogram, Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "remove show, re-add ying-yang symbols and other deleted articles"
 * 05:08, 4 March 2007 Revert 1 Sumple, edit summary "rvv"
 * 00:42, 5 March 2007 Revert 4 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv misleading edit summary, stalking"
 * 00:40, 11 March 2007 Revert 3 Ideogram, edit summary "rv"
 * 05:07, 11 March 2007 Revert 5 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv"
 * 05:51, 11 March 2007 Revert 4 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 20:48, 11 March 2007 Revert 6 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "reason for mass removal?? stop stalking me too"
 * 21:49, 11 March 2007 Revert 5 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 21:49, 11 March 2007 Revert 7 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv explain yourself?? stalker"
 * 21:52, 11 March 2007 Revert 6 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 05:37, 13 March 2007 Revert 8 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv politically motivated removal"
 * 06:41, 13 March 2007 Revert 7 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 23:17, 13 March 2007 Revert 9 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv unexplained, unwarranted deletions"
 * 00:26, 14 March 2007 Revert 8 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 00:41, 14 March 2007 Revert 10 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv pov pushing, hostile comments on talkpage irrelevant to the article"
 * 01:09, 14 March 2007 Revert 9 Ideogram, edit summary "rv we have stated our reasons for these edits on the talk page. Discuss there."
 * 17:49, 15 March 2007 Revert 11 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "no reason for mass removal. see talkpage"
 * 17:50, 15 March 2007 Revert 10 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function


 * No edits to the article by the parties until April 6


 * 22:48, 6 April 2007 Revert 12 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv mass removal by LionHeartx"
 * 23:30, 6 April 2007 Revert 2 Sumple, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 06:36, 9 April 2007 Revert 13 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv restore category"
 * 06:42, 9 April 2007 Revert 1 Blueshirts, edit summary "you're reverting more than categories, nice try"
 * 22:47, 9 April 2007 Revert 14 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv you need to explain why you remove the category other than saying you don't like them"
 * 23:00, 9 April 2007 Revert 11 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 07:37, 11 April 2007 Revert 15 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv"
 * 08:22, 11 April 2007 Revert 2 Blueshirts, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 00:45, 12 April 2007 Revert 16 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv"
 * 00:53, 12 April 2007 Revert 3 Sumple, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function. This is the current revision at the time of this submission.

Michelle Marsh (model)
The edit warring here has been quite extensive as well, but I'll only document the edit war between Ideogram and Certified.Gangsta.
 * 05:21, 11 March 2007 Revert 1 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 21:37, 11 March 2007 Revert 1 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "ideogram please refrain from stalking"
 * 22:09, 11 March 2007 Revert 2 Ideogram, edit summary automatic due to use of undo function
 * 22:13, 11 March 2007 Revert 2 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv when is this harassment campaign gonna stop"
 * 22:16, 11 March 2007 Revert 3 Ideogram, undo
 * 20:11, 12 March 2007 Revert 3 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv please stop the harassment"
 * 20:14, 12 March 2007 Revert 4 Ideogram, undo
 * 08:12, 13 March 2007 Revert 4 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv"
 * 08:37, 13 March 2007 Revert 5 Ideogram, undo
 * 17:55, 15 March 2007 Revert 5 Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "see talk"
 * 17:58, 15 March 2007 Revert 6 Ideogram, undo

Yeah, so you get the picture. The parties have edit warred on multiple venues. // PTO 20:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing by Ideogram
Despite my brief attempts at coaching Certified.Gangsta last month and Ideogram's assertions of favoritism at WP:CN, I believe I am sufficiently neutral to offer an uninvolved statement. I did not give CG any advice about his interpersonal conflict with Ideogram, nor did he seek my advice on this matter until after I opened the arbitration request. What follows is no vindication of CG's mistakes; I offer this evidence because it is of primary importance to the community sanctions process.

Shortly before this request for arbitration opened Ideogram canvassed several article and list talk pages for supporters in his campaign to ban Certified.Gangsta from Wikipedia.

For example, at Talk:List of Chinese Americans:
 * WP:RFC canvass
 * WP:CN canvass
 * Canvassing removed by Certified.Gangsta with an edit summary request not to canvass
 * Both canvassing posts restored by Ideogram

The same pattern repeated at Talk:Culture of Taiwan and Talk:Michelle Marsh (model). Note that the canvassing took place before Ideogram downgraded the WP:CN thread to request 1RR instead of a siteban.

This is a very serious precedent: an editor has attempted to manipulate the Community sanctions noticeboard and the community banning process to attempt to force another Wikipedian out of the site during an edit war. When I posted a request to open this case I was very concerned about the appearance of impropriety in Ideogram's prior disputes with Certified.Gangsta. Now there remains no room for doubt: Ideogram even restored these highly inappropriate requests at every page after Certified.Gangsta deleted them.

I urge the Committee to respond to these actions with the strongest remedies at its disposal in order to protect the integrity of the community sanctions process. Durova Charge! 02:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Unequal demands for recusal by Ideogram
Ideogram is aware of the principle of recusal. During the community sanctions discussion at WP:CN Ideogram repeatedly claimed that I ought to recuse myself from even commenting on the proposal. Yet he did not consider his own history of edit warring with Certified.Gangsta grounds for recusing himself, nor did he raise an ethical objection to any post by involved parties who joined that thread in support of the ban or 1RR proposals - as naturally he wouldn't, since he had repeatedly solicited their comments. Although one of Ideogram's posts to that thread makes a vague insinuation that he and I have been in some sort of prior conflict, I have no recollection of such an thing. It should be obvious since I am one of the coauthors of the disruptive editing guideline and the editor who proposed the community sanctions noticeboard that my dedication to a fair and equitable community sanctions process overshadows any interest in the outcome of a particular case. Durova Charge! 14:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gangsta edit-wars and does not engage in productive discussion
I believe the documentation I provided at Requests for comment/Certified.Gangsta is sufficient. --Ideogram 03:32, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to emphasize Gangsta's extensive block log  ; he has been a problem editor for a long time. --Ideogram 22:28, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Indiscriminate reverting by Gangsta
Another example of Gangsta reverting a substantial amount of work by a third editor when enforcing his preferred version. --Ideogram 23:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

This exchange has settled the matter. --Ideogram 01:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Bishonen
Bishonen has repeatedly labelled my posts "trolling" and her statement reflects this view. This view is the opposite of the truth: I do not "poke until an angry exchange gets going" and then "keep poking to maintain it". The fact is there is an angry exchange going (sometimes for weeks) before I get involved, and as soon as the conflict is over I stop. I defy Bishonen to supply diffs proving that I initiate conflict or perpetuate it. Bishonen and her friends need to learn that I am not trolling when I say things that make them mad. I do not say these things to prolong conflict, and I have every right to say them without being labelled a troll.

Blnguyen's block for disruption was overturned; there was no ongoing disruption. Note that whenever I am warned my behaviour is unacceptable I stop. The diffs supplied by Bishonen are not relevant to Blnguyen's block, as far as I can tell, which followed a brief edit war on What is a troll.

I have a history of conflict with Giano, Geogre, and Bishonen, and the diffs Bishonen supplied need to be viewed in that light. They are not relevant to my conflict with Gangsta. I also work well with the other members of WPCHINA who have commented here.

The extensive diffs Bishonen supplied are a mix of good faith attempts to discuss differences and exasperated slams on Giano. Note that sarcasm in edit summaries is not against Wikipedia policy. I've said it before and I'll say it again until I get booted off of Wikipedia: Giano is stupid and arrogant and needs to think before posting.

Bishonen likes to apply the idea of "setting a good example". I do not subscribe to this philosophy. I allow other people to show me what rules they play by and then play by their rules. I believe that people should not revert others' comments off the page; but if other people do it to me I do it to them to see how they like it.

I am glad Bishonen references the block by Phroziac. As I stated before, my two sustained blocks were for edit-warring over removal of my comments, not article content. Anyone who tries to remove my comments will start an edit-war with me. I hope that the ArbCom will see fit to rule on whether removing other people's comments is acceptable.

I have no idea how Bishonen gets the idea I am saying Giano thinks he's God from that diff.

Four users supporting my statement is a pretty good record for an RFC, even though they did not take the time to make statements of their own. In any case the RFC is old history and many users have made extensive statements on this RFAR.

As Bishonen herself admits to being unsure about the scope of this case, it doesn't matter that she thinks Sumple's example is a poor one of interaction between me and Gangsta. The point of this example is that the Gangsta problem is not limited to his interaction with me. If Bishonen wants to supply evidence of my behaviour with other editors, others can certainly do the same for Gangsta.

Bishonen fails to understand that her friendship and strong defence of Gangsta will inevitably cause animosity towards her by people who dislike Gangsta. This is a fact of life.

As for Bishonen's comments on Taiwanese/Chinese ethnicity, this is not a content dispute and ArbCom would not rule on it if it was.

--Ideogram 17:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Still edit-warring
Note that Gangsta is still edit-warring on multiple pages with multiple editors even though I have not touched any of his edits since 10 April 2007. --Ideogram 20:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Geogre
Geogre's contribution, as he himself admits, contains no evidence. It is personal, unsupported opinion. Geogre doesn't feel the need to prove anything he says. --Ideogram 17:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC) Posted for Ideogram by Thatcher131 18:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Heimstern
Guettarda didn't want a discussion, he wanted an apology, no more and no less. Since I wasn't going to give him one, there was no point talking to him. I explained my view of events in this exchange (be sure to read the whole thing carefully before passing judgement). Note that Guettarda appears not to have read or understood this exchange, since he didn't change his approach, not even understanding my statement that I am not a mediator.

It is just plain stupid to advocate that his right to "discuss" trumps my right to be left alone. I am perfectly capable of asserting my right to be left alone by leaving Wikipedia. How does that help anything? --Ideogram 03:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

It is preposterous for you to say I claimed my actions "should not be scrutinised" while Guettarda's should. I was asking for one thing, affirmation of my right to control my own user talk page, including asking other people not to post on it. This is a position that has been enforced by Ghirlandajo, Irpen, Giano, and most notably Certified.Gangsta himself. I was asserting that my actions should not be discussed on ANI because it wasn't the proper place for it. As you can see if you read the exchange I linked to (how on earth did you miss it?) I was perfectly willing to explain myself in a different forum. --Ideogram 03:13, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Edit warring by Certified.Gangsta at Chinese
Certified.Gangsta has been edit warring at the disambiguation page Chinese, trying to remove the statement that the Republic of China currently administers Taiwan, since he believes this to be relevant to the question whether Taiwanese are Chinese. The page stays in that version for a while, until...
 * 03:26, 12 February 2006 - first removal (without edit summary)
 * 03:41, 12 February 2006 - reverted by Kusma
 * 04:01, 12 February 2006 - second removal (no edit summary)
 * 04:53, 12 February 2006 - reverted by Kusma
 * 05:45, 20 February 2006 - removes link to ROC, adds "Whether Taiwanese are Chinese is a controversial issue"
 * 07:05, 20 February 2006 - reverted by Jiang
 * 05:32, 23 February 2006 - removes ROC, adds "Whether Taiwanese are Chinese is a controversial issue" in a way that makes little sense
 * 05:33, 23 February 2006 - reverted by FCYTravis
 * 05:34, 23 February 2006 - blind revert by CG, edit summary "rv-NPOV", reintroducing previously removed IP vandalism
 * 05:35, 23 February 2006 - reverted by Pfctdayelise
 * 08:16, 24 February 2006 - removes both ROC and PRC; adds "Whether Taiwanese is Chinese or not is a controversial issue."; adds "political" in next edit.
 * 08:23, 24 February 2006 - an attempt by Jiang to move the ROC and the PRC to the "see also" section, removing the "controversial issue" sentence
 * 08:08, 16 June 2006 - RevolverOcelotX introduces an explanatory (Taiwan) behind Republic of China
 * 17:35, 16 June 2006 - reverted by Certified.Gangsta, edit summary "rv-NPOV whether Taiwanese are Chinese is a controversial political issue"
 * 20:03, 16 June 2006 - reverted by RevolverOcelotX, edit summary "rv, common name needed"
 * 20:48, 16 June 2006 - Umofomia changes "(Taiwan)" to "(on Taiwan), edit summary "Don't use Taiwan as an equivalent politcal iterm to the ROC; if you must use it, use it in a geographic context (see Naming conventions (Chinese)"
 * 10:29, 19 June 2006 - Maork replaces "on" by "or", no edit summary, adds Chinese art to the dab page in next edit
 * 19:33, 19 June 2006 - CG reverts to the last version not containing the word "Taiwan", removing also the Chinese art added by Maork; edit summary "pov pushing"
 * 04:07, 20 June 2006 - reverted by RevolverOcelotX, edit summary "rv POV"; subsequent edits revert all of Maork's changes
 * 22:22, 21 June 2006 - CG reverts, edit summary "read naming conventions"
 * 22:58, 21 June 2006 - reverted by RevolverOcelotX, edit summary "rv deletions by Bonafide.hustla"
 * 22:04, 24 June 2006 - reverts, summary "rv to Bonafide". See Requests for checkuser/Case/Bonafide.hustla and Requests for checkuser/Case/Aish Warya for more info on Aish Warya, who appears to be unrelated to CG
 * 23:00, 24 June 2006 - reverted by RevolverOcelotX, summary "RV, stop removing description of the ROC"
 * 06:37, 25 June 2006 - reverted by IP
 * 07:23, 25 June 2006 - reverted by RevolverOcelotX, summary "RV unexplained deletions"
 * 21:24, 25 June 2006 - reverted by CG, edit summary "POV pushing and edit warring is bad for the community-please note whether taiwanese are consider chinese is a controversial political issue"
 * 22:06, 25 June 2006 - reverted by RevolverOcelotX, edit summary "rv deletions"
 * 00:19, 26 June 2006 - reverted by CG, edit summary "rv pov edits"
 * 14:28, 26 June 2006 - RevolverOcelotX adds "on Taiwan", edit summary "add description per Naming conventions (Chinese)"

I will document more when I have time. For the moment, see the history and talk page history; there was some discussion of the issue in July-November. Kusma (talk) 11:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I stopped documenting this; the issues haven't changed, and recent behaviour by CG is so similar that we don't need to look at all this ancient history. Wherever you look in Certified.Gangsta's contributions, there are mindless sterile edit wars and never a serious argument in favor of his position. Kusma (talk) 06:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gangsta still edit warring during this arbitration case
Certified.Gangsta's contributions since this arbitration case has started are still only edit warring and sterile reverts, with lies as his edit summaries.
 * Chinese reunification: (history) Certified.Gangsta has been revert warring with HongQiGong, who cites the WP:MOS in his edit summaries, about the way the title of the article is presented. He uses summaries like "rv to latest version by jiang" or "rv to latest version by jiang agreed in talkpage" but the version he reverts to is different in some templates from Jiang's last version (Certified.Gangsta likes to simply revert, and to attribute the version he likes to other people; Jiang arrived at this version by reverting an unrelated edit of Certified.Gangsta). The (mostly old) discussion on the talk page, to which Gangsta has not contributed, also does not really support his point of view, nor does the WP:MOS against which he edits. Kusma (talk) 06:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gangsta does not discuss in good faith
Certified.Gangsta is not interested in listening to facts, evidence, or logic. When other users put forth facts, evidence, or logical arguments, Gangsta simply ignores it, or retorts by repeating the same claim over and over again. As an example, the following was the course of discussion on Talk:List of Chinese Americans; note that this was occuring concurrently to edit warring on the main article page and the talk page as documented above and elsewhere: (A little to-and-fro later) (Intervening other discussion) (Omitting an intervening discussion on other issues between Ran and Tim8) (Some intervening discussion and edits, not involving Certified.Gangsta) (Discussion between Sumple, HongQiGong, Ran, and Ben Aveling) (some time later, after this RfArb has opened) (He seems to be slightly changing his rhetoric in this edit, clearly inspired by Bishonen's characterisation here)
 * Jiang states his view
 * Certified.Gangsta states his view
 * Jiang supplies evidence
 * Certified.Gangsta ignores evidence and re-states his views
 * Ran states his view
 * Certified.Gangsta re-states his views
 * Ran supplies evidence in the form of quotes
 * Certified.Gangsta ignores evidence and goes off on a tangent
 * Kusma points out the peculiarity of Certified.Gangsta's views
 * Enochlau agrees with Kusma
 * Ran points to other Wikipedia articles
 * Certified.Gangsta ignores arguments raised and re-states his views
 * Certified.Gangsta posts link contradicting his own views
 * Enochlau puts forward an argument
 * Ran explains linguistic evidence
 * Ran supplies a large collection of evidence
 * Ran points out Certified.Gangsta's own link contradicts his own views
 * Certified.Gangsta ignores arguments and re-states his views
 * Ran points to evidence previously supplied
 * Certified.Gangsta ignores arguments and re-states his views
 * Certified.Gangsta refers to another discussion
 * Ran points to evidence previously supplied
 * Certified.Gangsta ignores arguments and re-states his views
 * Ran points out that Certified.Gangsta has not responded to previous arguments
 * Ben Aveling argues against Certified.Gangsta, citing sources
 * Sumple argues against Certified.Gangsta
 * Certified.Gangsta expands on his views; states previous arguments as "wrong", supplies no evidence
 * Ben Aveling makes further argument, citing sources
 * Certified.Gangsta re-states his views, saying "we have just established (it)"
 * Ben Aveling points out the peculiarity of Certified.Gangsta's views
 * Sumple points out that Certified.Gangsta's argument was not "established"
 * Ran points out that Certified.Gangsta's argument was not "established"
 * Certified.Gangsta ignores all arguments and goes off on a tangent
 * Ran points to evidence previously supplied
 * Yuje supplies evidence
 * Certified.Gangsta re-states his views
 * Certified.Gangsta again claims his argument has been established
 * Enochlau points out that Certified.Gangsta has not established his argument
 * Certified.Gangsta repeats his claims, asserts some perverted view of the NPOV policy
 * HongQiGong points out that Certified.Gangsta still has supplied no evidence
 * Sumple points out the fallacy in Certified.Gangsta's interpretation of the NPOV policy
 * Certified.Gangsta restates his views, accusing Sumple of "messing up a compromise"
 * Ben Aveling points out that Certified.Gangsta has supplied no sources to back up his claims
 * Certified.Gangsta repeats his views
 * LionHeartX points out that certified.Gangsta still has supplied no sources to back up his claims
 * Sumple reminds Certified.Gangsta that he still has not supplied any source or evidence

(So far, Certified.Gangsta has not replied. Yet, he has in the meantime continued to revert-war on the article page:, , , with his new favourite catchphrase "rv see talkpage", which is ironic since he evidently hasn't even looked at the talk page while he was making these reverts.)

Note that at no time did Certified.Gangsta directly address the evidence and sources cited by any other editor. Certified.Gangsta only supplied one source through the whole argument, and that source contradicted his own argument.

A closer reading will reveal that Certified.Gangsta had very little knowledge (but a very firm view) about what he was arguing about. Despite his firm view, he is unable to supply any sources at all backing up that opinion. Despite other editors' attempts to explain things to him (e.g. about different terms in both English and Chinese), and pointing him towards other sources of information such as other Wikipedia articles, Certified.Gangsta appears to have ignored all of that information. --Sumple (Talk) 04:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Additional note: contrary to Bishonen's contentions, this was not a dispute between "self-identification" and objective ethnography. Users advocating self-dentification were arguing against Certified.Gangsta. See, for example, comments by Ran, myself, and others. Users advociating an objective identification standard were also arguing against Certified.Gangsta. See, for example, Ben Aveling.

What Certified.Gangsta was advocating was "self"-identification in this sense only: Certified.Gangsta was imposing his own ethnic identification on the Taiwanese people. That is to say, his logic proceeded as "I think I'm not Chinese. I think I'm Taiwanese" --> "All Taiwanese are not Chinese". The implausidity of his logic is not, however, the issue here. The issue is his refusal to listen to evidence or to discuss in good faith. --Sumple (Talk) 01:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gangsta makes personal attakcs
Gangsta resorts to name-calling, ad hominim attacks, and other inappropriate tactics. Of particular concern is the way he makes baseless accusations in order to win support from other editors. See, for example: See further below as to more-than-personal insults.
 * Talk:Culture of Taiwan;
 * User talk:Bishonen ("... Sumple insulted you, maybe you should get Zilla involve[sic]")

Response to Bishonen's evidence
Bishonen claims that  is evidence for Certified.Gangsta's claim that I insulted her. I urge the committee and all others concerned to note that:


 * Bishonen claims my earlier comment that "the community" in Ideogram's comment meant the "Certified.Gangsta fanclub" was an insult. It was not an insult. I submit that the comment about the Certified.Gangsta fanclub is justified and reasonable, considering the way "the community" referenced in Ideogram's comment in the link above has supported Certified.Gangsta's activites, regardless of the legitimatcy. Furthermore, it was not personally directed at Bishonen, even if it (admittedly) implies that she speaks for this "community".


 * Bishonen tries to draw parallels between Certified.Gangsta's accusing me of "insulting" her on the one hand, with my evidence about Certified.Gangsta's comments about the "LionHeartX fanclub". There are several problems with this.
 * 1) I never said Certified.Gangsta's comment is an "insult", as Bishonen seems to think. I didn't say it is an insult, and I do not think it's an insult. It is an attempt to lump other editors together to create a mirage of a "conspiracy". I do not hold it to be an insult for Certified.Gangsta to say that I am a LionHeartX supporter - that is merely groundless. I also do not hold it to be an insult for Certified.Gagnsta to say that I am in league with the other editors - that is but a paranoid attack. What I do hold, however, is that that comment, considered together with Certified.Gangsta's other actions, demonstrates Certified.Gangsta's lack of good faith and deliberate trolling.
 * 2) If Bishonen thinks, as she seems to make clear, that it is an insult to say that she supported Certified.Gangsta... well, I guess that really speaks for what Bishonen really thinks about Certified.Gangsta, doesn't it?
 * 3) As stated above, I believe my comment about Bishonen in that context speaking for the "Certified.Gangsta fanclub" is fair and reasonable, whereas Certified.Gangsta's comment about me in relation to LionHeartX is not reasonable. Let the records show that LionHeartX is an editor I do not agree with, especially when (in my opinion) Wikipedia policy is concerned. See, for example, this almost-edit-war:, , . In contrast to some other editors, I take a principled stance in dealing with any editor, including LionHeartX. See, for example, , in particular: "No, I don't agree with the approach of User:RevolverOcetlotX or whatever he's called this week".
 * 4) My actions are not the subject of this case. If Bishonen objects to my behaviour, that is a matter to be settled elsewhere.
 * 5) Certified.Gangsta never referenced this supposed "evidence" in his various accusations, in any way. We only have Bishonen's words that that was what Certified.Gangsta was referring to in his accusations. --Sumple (Talk) 12:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gangsta incites animosity among others users
Gangsta constantly makes claims about "conspiracies" and alliances of people set out to attack or destroy him, without addressing the reason that others do not agree with him. See, for example:
 * User talk:Bishonen
 * User talk:Certified.Gangsta ("“LionHeartX fan-club community” (Sumple, Nic tan, Jiang, blueshirt, Ideogram, etc)").

Gangsta attempts to incite antagonism between users on the basis of a perceived "China vs Taiwan" war ("The number of Chinese editors on here seem to overwhelmingly outnumber the # of Taiwanese editors" - see User talk:Certified.Gangsta). There is no factual basis for Certified.Gangsta's claims. As far as can be discerned, his logic proceeds thus: 1. many other users disagree with him; 2. he sees himself as Taiwanese but not Chinese; 3. some (not all) of these users see themselves as Chinese, or as both Taiwanese and Chinese; 4. therefore this is a Taiwanese-versus-Chinese war.

However, Gangsta's paranoia about a nationalistic conspiracy extends beyond the China-Taiwan issue. He has also claimed, amidst edit-warring on the British-English issue in relation to ample chested women, that this was a "nationalistic conspiracy", as documented elsewhere on this page.

Such an attitude, and the attendant accusations, are not conducive to harmonious editing.

More controversially, Gangsta maintains a section on his user page called "China=Shame". The contents of that section were originally highly pejorative and racist: After numerous complaints, he has trimmed the racist content, but still maintains the section heading:
 * the racist content
 * (scroll to subsection "China=Shame") - the original state of the section
 * User:Certified.Gangsta.

He should have been blocked at the first instance of that racist attack. That he persisted in it despite many complaints and disputes should have attracted the harshest penalties available. --Sumple (Talk) 05:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gangsta has no respect for the Wikipedian community
Certified.Gangsta has no regard for Wikipedia and the Wikipedian community.

In addition to the foregoing (and that's a pretty big foregoing, what with racism and all), Certified.Gangsta continues to claim on his userpage that he is a lawyer and has a JD degree, when he is in fact a high school student.

On his user page, he also claims that he has significantly contributed to 5 featured articles. This is blatantly untrue, as can be seen from his edit history -- unless he interprets "significantly contribute" to include vandalism and edit-warring.

He persists in having this message on his user page -- a fake "You have new messages" tag designed to confuse other users and the software. Despite lengthy discussions and heavy objections, he persists in reinstating it.

All of these show utter disregard for other Wikipedia users and Wikipedia itself. This, added to his offensive, racist, edit-warring behaviour, the refusal to discuss in good faith, frequent vandalism, and edit-warring, makes out a case for outright and permanent ban. --Sumple (Talk) 11:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Evidence presented by Anonymous Coward
I would just like to point out that the RFC was well advertised and has less then fifty edits to it with only four different people commenting. Ideogram's attempt to "file a community ban" was roundly ignored.

This can't be more than a sideshow that doesn't even rise to the level of minor disruption. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.237.134.241 (talk • contribs).

User:Certified.Gangsta's edit-warring on Keeley Hazell
Alas, I have seen Certified.Gangsta's edit war ideology, and it is not new. In fact there's diffs going back to November where he engaged in edit warring. In the case of model Keeley Hazell, he refuses to accept that Hazell is English, changing it to that she is British. What I'm trying to show is that this is a VERY long-standing problem with him.

September 2006
September 21, changed her birth location to UK. , same reverts. September 25, didn't put image back up this time but still reverted back to British. September 25, same revert. September 26, with incivility. September 27, stopped for a while after that.

November 2006
November 6, smaller revert this time. November 8, coupled with personal attack. , November 8-11, even a compromise isn't acceptable to him.
 * Now, at this point he compromises on changing it to "Famous in the UK".

January 2007
Even after I try to compromise |here, only to be disowned by Certified |here. He also has a thing for including fairuse images at this point, as evident here:

April 2007
He finally gave on the article until just recently. He starts doing what he did back in September. 

What am I trying to show? That this is a long-standing problem for him, and that he will probably never quit edit-warring.-- Wizardman 22:20, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gansta never replied to any discussion but kept reverting
Certified.Gansta so far never replied to any of my request for discussion in the Talk Page of Legal Status of Taiwan,and his own talk page

He kept reverting my editing refuse to any rational discussion.  

Certified.Gangsta removing talk page entries
I was requested by Ideogram (who I've been informally mentoring/assisting/something or other) to investigate article talk page removals by Certified.Gangsta. I located at least these:, , , all reverts related to removing Ideogram's notices of his filed user behavior RFC against C.G, and left C.G a talk page warning subsequently.

For those specific edits absent other context, I believe a simple warning was necessary and sufficient. I don't have any useful information related to the other issues raised here or the context of the Ideogram/Certified.Gangsta conflict.

Georgewilliamherbert 22:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Ideogram was using the article talkpages as a venue to win support in this arbitration case. I removed it because it was totally not relevant to the article.--Certified.Gangsta 18:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You appear to be confused about the dates and chronology. Those predate the Arbcom case.  They were related to the user conduct RFC he started.  As I stated earlier, you aren't allowed to just go remove them.   Georgewilliamherbert 21:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Evidence presented by User:Certified.Gangsta
Firstly, I need to point out that User:LionheartX (a community banned sockpuppet Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive177 who was previously known as User:RevolverOcelotX, User:RaGnaRoK SepHír0tH, User:Apocalyptic Destroyer, User:Guardian Tiger, User talk:ApocalypticDestroyer's recently unblocked under cloudy circumstances even after the abuse of unblock templates     ) has actively campaigned and recruited many of his "allies" to comment on this case. , while LionheartX himself made no statement. I hereby request LionheartX be included in this ArbCom case and that a simple policy, ie. a ban, be enforced against him. He was originally indefinitely blocked for disruption, as Apocalyptic Destroyer, by arbitrator User:Dmcdevit. Here is what Dmcdevit said about one of the sock. The reason users like LionheartX and Ideogram are allowed to edit freely is the "gang-patrolling" nature of Taiwan-China relation articles, which are overwhelmingly dominated by PRC editors who want to justify their claim over Taiwan. This makes NPOV-ing articles exponentially more difficult. Ideogram's and LionheartX's violations can be summed up into : wiki-stalking (because of personal vendetta),         and many more, wikilawyering, edit warring, talkpage/discussion page abuse  and a blatant lie. I strongly believe that ArbCom should sanction both LionheartX and Ideogram and that gang patrolling should stop in these articles.--Certified.Gangsta 08:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Ideogram wiki-stalking/harassment campaign due to personal vendetta
After encountering in dispute, Ideogram has a habit of stalking others' contributions and revert everything they edit.

John Profumo: 

Keeley Hazell:

Michelle Marsh:

Harassment campaign toward User:Bladestorm: When Bladestorm pointed out the double standard after I was blocked for 3RR for violating the "spirit" while Ideogram did not get blocked after self-reversion on this AN/I thread, he launched another campaign against Bladestorm. Bladestom sums it up here , immediately removed by Ideogram.

Ideogram major warzones/violations summary
User_talk:Certified.Gangsta--Certified.Gangsta 08:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Georgewilliamherbert
Based on the diffs George had provided above, Ideogram is spamming article talkpages as a forum to gather support for his harassment campaign and bogus RfC against me. I removed his notes on those talkpages because the opening of a RfC concerning me have nothing to do with the relevant articles. After he re-introduced those inappropriate materials, I didn't remove them again.

Reply to BenAveling
BenAveling is hardly a neutral voice here. He has actively patronize User:LionheartX who was community banned by arbitrator User:Dmcdevit (see my statement and diffs provided above) and actively campaigned for Lion's unblock despite obvious sockpuppetry, spamming (a quick example is right here on this page and the workshop page), trolling, personal attack, POV pushing, and other abuse. Here are some of Ben's support for Lion and his socks. The major problem with Ben is that he repeatedly claimed that LionheartX was indef. blocked not banned (when Dmcdevit clearly stated otherwise in the block log, therefore he should be unblocked. And he repeatedly wikilawyered over the same issue. User talk:ApocalypticDestroyer's (whole page of chit-chat with banned user)

Disrupting a request for page protection-

stalking my contributions (supporting Lion and Ideogram)-

He also made his anti-Taiwanese position clear  and especially this  ("Even if every Taiwanese citizen stopped speaking Chinese they would still be ethnically Chinese (aboriginies excluded). It's in the blood." represents his clear bias and POV in this matter and also explains his hostility toward me and support of Ideogram and LionheartX)--Certified.Gangsta 02:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Ideogram: battleground
I've seen a lot of anger and hostility in Ideogram's non-mainspace editing, which makes the editing experience disagreeable for people who encounter him. I've had this experience myself, and determined to stay out of the way of his characteristic pokes. I certainly don't mean to suggest that Ideogram is the only one to be hostile in these exchanges. But it seems to me that it's generally he who pokes, until an angry exchange gets going, and who then keeps poking to maintain it. Far be it from me to psychologize over this—I have absolutely no interest in Ideogram's thought processes, only in his conduct—but he reflects candidly on these processes himself on the Village Pump: "For some reason I am irrationally attracted to conflict". See for instance the way he gets a previously neutral editor worked up here.

The events leading up to Blnguyen's block of him for disruption in January 2007 may illustrate what I mean:


 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * ("I don't see any part of AGF that requires me to respect everyone or even pretend to respect everyone")
 * 
 * 
 * (note the edit summary)
 * 
 * (!! compare previous diffs)
 * (note edit summary)
 * 
 * 
 * (note the edit summary)
 * (note the edit summary... no, note the whole thing)
 * 
 * (note the edit summary, and note my previous post, also visible here)
 * (TenOfAllTrades)
 * (a fleeting resolution)
 * 
 * ("for some reason I am irrationally attracted to conflict").

An easily accessible recent example of the Ideogram battleground in Wikipedia space is the talkpage of this evidence page, see sections "Canvassing" and "Durova's prejudice". His input on the InShaneee arbitration workshop is another example, which got him blocked by User:Phroziac for "insane edit warring". Choice diff here. Once he's taken a shiner to someone, he'll tell them anything — that they need to use Preview (this for the crime of leaving two intead of one line between sections), that they're stupid and arrogant, that they think they're God — anything. It would be an improvement of many respected editors' quality of wikilife if they could get on with their business without Ideogram's hostility. I don't know how best to achieve that. Bishonen | talk 14:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

Certified.Gangsta
Ideogram's claim that CG's block log is "extensive" is unusual. I have to presume it's offered in good faith. But hopefully the arbs will read the logs in question (as Freestyle.king, as Bonafide.hustla as Certified.Gangsta) carefully and note the incidence of real blocks on them, as opposed to this kind of thing. What CG's real blocks show is that CG's newbie account, Freestyle.King, had a substantial block log, February-April 2006. I regarded him as a problem editor, spoke against him, and once pagebanned him from ANI as a vexatious litigant and pest. But I took his change of account name around May 2006 in good faith as turning over a new leaf, and I consider that he has come a long way since. Please look at the dates of the diffs offered on this page, because they show an encouraging development.

Ideogram's RFC on Gangsta is also unusual. I don't understand why it hasn't been deleted. It contains absolutely no "evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute", even though both Ideogram and Blueshirts sign as "Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute". (Diffs, please, guys?) Only one outside view has been posted, and it's critical of Ideogram, not of Gangsta. Only four users besides Ideogram and Blueshirts have had any input whatsoever on the RFC, this in the form of appending their signatures to Ideogram's statement of the dispute. This meagre interest comes despite Ideogram's advertising on article talkpages, see Durova's evidence above. It's hard to believe that this is the RFC for a user that the community wants to get rid of, though it's obvious that a group does. Bishonen | talk 14:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

Reply to Sumple about Certified.Gangsta
This Evidence page is currently a lot like a concerted anti-CG campaign, and I can hardly take on all the posts (or, in fact, the way my RL is, even click on all the links on it). But Sumple's example of Talk:List of Chinese Americans is very interesting. I hope all the other sections aren't as skewed, as I have a low opinion of the quality of this evidence. The ArbCom will form their own opinion about the fit between the actual diffs and Sumple's comments about how CG "restates his views", "goes off on a tangent", fails to discuss, etc. (Because you guys get paid, right?) I see a basic disagreement and plenty of discussion from CG. (Though literally none from Ideogram, who doesn't edit this page, which IMO makes it a rather poor choice of "example"). As for CG's supposedly "unreasonable" editing of this list: one basic disagreement is whether the ethnic distinction betrween Taiwanese and Chinese is a matter of self-identification or of biology ("blood"). CG says the former, his opponents the latter. Thus Ben Aveling: "Even if every Taiwanese citizen stopped speaking Chinese they would still be ethnically Chinese (aboriginies excluded). It's in the blood." As far as I know, CG's opposite view of ethnicity is the dominant one today, when we don't talk so often about what is and isn't in the blood. See Ethnic group: "While ethnicity and race are related concepts (Abizadeh 2001), the concept of ethnicity is rooted more in the idea of social grouping, marked especially by shared nationality, tribal affiliation, shared genealogy/kinship and descent, religious identification, language use, or specific cultural and traditional origins, whereas race is rooted in the idea of a biological classification." I seem to be somewhat involved in Sumple's most recently added sections "Certified.Gangsta makes personal attacks" and "Certified.Gangsta incites animosity among others users". Sumple is an editor I've had no interaction with whatsoever, so I agree it does seem a little unlikely that he/she would insult me. Neverhteless it happened, following the strong lead of Ideogram: "Bish claiming to speak for the community is just laughable". --Ideogram 22:00, 16 March 2007 (UTC). "oh pfft "the community". Certified.Gangsta fanclub community, perhaps". --Sumple (Talk) 00:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC) Please note the timestamps — that was back in March. More recently, Certified.Gangsta quoted Sumple's own words back at him/her—"“LionHeartX fan-club community” (Sumple, Nic tan, Jiang, blueshirt, Ideogram, etc)". This time apparently they hurt, roused indignation, and got posted on this page as evidence that CG "constantly" makes claims about conspiracies and alliances. Wow. (I notice Sumple's argument above, in response to my note here, that it wasn't an insult — though it was when CG said it — and also wasn't about me. That's... good, I suppose.)Bishonen | talk 14:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

LionheartX
See Certified.Gangsta's evidence for LionHeartX's behind-the-scenes activity in this case. I suppose the actions of LionheartX could be an over-literal application of BenAveling's advice, when the community ban was lifted, to stay away from CG: "My advice is to please stay away from Certified Gangsta, and any and all pages he chooses to edit. It's not worth you getting in a fight with him. There are plenty of other people who will revert any mistakes he makes. Never revert anyone, never complain about anyone, never argue with anyone. If action is needed, come to me, talk to me, and I'll help you take it." Note that I'm not supposing Ben meant for LionheartX to orchestrate an anti-CG campaign by proxy. Bishonen | talk 14:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

P.S. Reply to LionheartX 26 april
P.S.LionheartX, thanks for collecting and posting those diffs by me. I see they're some of my best work.. Bishonen | talk 01:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Evidence presented by user: Giano
I'm not sure I'm allowed to say anything here as this is not really evidence, but I see Ideogram has mentioned me above. I am not involved in anyway in this case, I know nothing about it but as Ideogram is yet again insulting me (as is his norm - "Giano is stupid and arrogant") my observations on the subject are here - which I think is the correct place for them. If this is not the correct place for me to respond to Ideogram's personal attack on me above, please someone move it to wherever is. Thanks Giano 21:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Answer to Bishonen (RE: the RfC)
In answer to Bishonen, I recreated the deleted RfC to give the noticeboards a reprieve and to stop the two parties from engaging each other directly, which was leading nowhere. The RfC's original format (upon restoration) was truly dismal. No diffs, one signatory, little if any attempts to resolve the dispute. After it was restored, Ideogram added diffs and Blueshirt became signatory, but failed to provide any efforts at resolving the dispute. After removing the RfC status as accepted, I told him he must do so or the RfC will be redeleted. He added one diff, which was barely satisfactory, but which I nontheless allowed, largely because CG did not bother to provide a response and to avoid further spillovers. El_C 02:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Ideogram conduct in this RfAr
As I mentioned to Mackenses, I am concerned with Ideogram's conduct in this very arbitration case (his response). Also, note my comment at the "Giano is stupid and arrogant" section on the workshop page (again, Mackensen's response). Hopefuly, this will be it. El_C 02:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, that wasn't it. Ideogram continued to conduct himself disruptively and, in turn, was blocked by Blnguyen for 48 hours. El_C 06:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Evidence presented by user:Geogre
I do not have evidence, per se, as what Bishonen cites above would be sufficient. However, with Ideogram I tried rational explanation, patient reasoning, ignoring, and dismissing him, over the course of months, before getting to the sneering level that can be detected in the diffs above. I have found Ideogram to be really compulsive about conflicts. I do not mean the "I am attracted to conflict" thing, but a compulsion to continue, continue, and continue. This is a need to win, and that is utterly incompatible with Wikipedia. Coming back to add another comment, then another, then another (all to the same thing), deciding to use "(Outdent)" as a weapon, following previous conflict parties around to every page where they might be in conflict, and, essentially, behaving very much like a troll -- all show a person interested in winning by getting revenge and by inflicting suffering on others equal to what he seems to have suffered. That makes him annoying, but it also makes him a continuing disruption -- a disruption that moves from page to page to page. Geogre 10:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Incivility from Ideogram
This incident further shows Ideogram's incivility and, perhaps more importantly, unwillingness to work with others.


 * Guettarda objects to Ideogram's characterization of him/her
 * Ideogram's response, note edit summary
 * Another post by Guettarda
 * Ideogram's response, ordering Guettarda not to post on his talk page anymore
 * Guettarda's response
 * Ideogram reverts the comment
 * Guettarda replies
 * Ideogram reverts again

This discussion continued for quite some time with Guettarda posting comments and Ideogram removing them with the edit summary "rv". Both sides could probably have handled it better. My point of all this is that Ideogram showed a blatant unwillingness to discuss a matter with another user, which seems to me to be uncivil and against the basic premises of communication on a wiki. Ideogram later brought this to ANI. The most telling post from this discussion is this one in which Ideogram states that he will not discuss with Guettarda at all and is "within [his] rights to do so". Note that he had previously received a suggestion from JzG to apologise to Guettarda, and Ideogram's response was to insist this was not the place to discuss his interaction with Guettarda.

This discussion again shows Ideogram's unwillingness to discuss with others and to heed advice from others. He also seems to me to have insisted that his actions with Guettarda should not be scrutinised at ANI whilst he was asking for Guettarda's actions to scrutinised at the same board. Heimstern Läufer 22:04, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Gangsta
I've been watching this for some time, and feeling that I should make a comment without really knowing what to say. To me, the evidence that Gangsta does not play well with others is so strong, that adding more diffs would be gratuitous. He doesn't even seem to be defending himself, except by attacking other users.

Response to Bishonen
I agree with most of what people have said to date about the incidents I was involved in. I think the only exception is Bishonen's summary of the discussion at Talk:List of Chinese Americans :


 * "CG's opposite view of ethnicity is the dominant one today, when we don't talk so often about what is and isn't in the blood."

This isn't true. Gangsta hasn't always argued for self-identification:


 * "DNA testing ... shows Hoklo to be rather different from Chinese." --Certified.Gangsta 20:02, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

He was rebutted and has not yet responded to the rebuttal. His final word on the issue was "The only people who can automatically be classified as Chinese are Nationalist Chinese who were born in China." --Certified.Gangsta 06:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Contributions
I've been looking back through his last 1500+ edits. There are some good ones edits, nothing huge, just little contributions here and there. His edits at Magee Secondary School feel OK. I guess he's a student there? His edits in keeping borderline cases out of List of teen idols of the 2000s also feel OK. But the good contributions seem to have dried up, I don't know, perhaps late last year or early this year. For example, we could survive without his mamary fixation. And his english/british edit waring re various busty women we could do without. (     (Not just busty women, eg, but mostly busty women.) He has always been pushing british/english, and taiwan/china, and large natural breasts, but he didn't used to war over it the way he has been lately.  Regards, Ben Aveling 09:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Edit warring
Even with the decision nearly made, CG is still edit waring, this time at Chinese reunification.


 * 1) (cur) (last)  04:51, 29 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (15,294 bytes) (rv. Please follow WP:MOS.)
 * 2) (cur) (last) 04:46, 29 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (15,115 bytes) (rv please follow jiang's version)
 * 3) (cur) (last) 17:02, 28 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (15,294 bytes) (rv. Name of the article, per WP:MOS. Controversy on the topic is covered in the content of the article.)
 * 4) (cur) (last) 05:31, 28 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (15,115 bytes) (rv don't see how MOS is relevant)
 * 5) (cur) (last) 02:59, 26 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (15,294 bytes) (Name of the article, per WP:MOS.)
 * 6) (cur) (last) 01:40, 26 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (15,115 bytes) (rv to latest version by jiang)
 * 7) (cur) (last) 18:06, 23 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (15,294 bytes) (Name of the article, per WP:MOS.)
 * 8) (cur) (last) 17:23, 23 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (15,115 bytes) (rv to latest version by jiang agreed in talkpage)
 * 9) (cur) (last) 23:56, 22 April 2007 LionheartX (Talk | contribs) (15,294 bytes) (cat)
 * 10) (cur) (last) 23:00, 22 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (15,101 bytes) (Name of the article, per WP:MOS.)
 * 11) (cur) (last) 21:20, 22 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (15,115 bytes) (rv to lastest version by Jiang)
 * 12) (cur) (last) 01:31, 22 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (15,101 bytes) (Name of the article, per WP:MOS.)
 * 13) (cur) (last) 01:25, 22 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (15,115 bytes) (rv pov pushing)
 * 14) (cur) (last) 01:00, 21 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (15,101 bytes) (Name of the article, per WP:MOS)
 * 15) (cur) (last) 23:13, 20 April 2007 R1es (Talk | contribs) (15,115 bytes) (→External links)
 * 16) (cur) (last) 22:32, 20 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (15,308 bytes) (rv to compromise version by jiang)
 * 17) (cur) (last) 22:18, 20 April 2007 Sky Divine (Talk | contribs) (15,390 bytes)
 * 20:25, 18 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (This is the name of the article and that's how the article should begin per WP:MOS. And this term is a common one in the media. Other views are presented in the body of the article.)
 * 1) (cur) (last) 08:27, 18 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (rv to latest version by Jiang)
 * 2) (cur) (last) 18:33, 17 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) m
 * 3) (cur) (last) 18:32, 17 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (Please. This is the name of the article and that's how the article should begin per WP:MOS. And this term is a common one in the media. Other views are presented in the body of the article.)
 * 4) (cur) (last) 18:11, 17 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (remove pov pushing)
 * 5) (cur) (last) 17:46, 17 April 2007 HongQiGong (Talk | contribs) (name of the article.)
 * 6) (cur) (last) 02:19, 13 April 2007 Jiang (Talk | contribs) m (Reverted edits by Certified.Gangsta (talk) to last version by Jiang)
 * 7) (cur) (last) 00:18, 13 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (rvv)
 * 8) (cur) (last) 11:13, 12 April 2007 Jiang (Talk | contribs) m (Reverted edits by 124.243.160.98 (talk) to last version by Old Nol)
 * 9) (cur) (last) 06:58, 12 April 2007 124.243.160.98 (Talk)
 * 10) (cur) (last) 06:54, 12 April 2007 124.243.160.98 (Talk)
 * 11) (cur) (last) 12:03, 11 April 2007 Old Nol (Talk | contribs) m
 * 12) (cur) (last) 08:33, 11 April 2007 Sumple (Talk | contribs) m (Undid revision 121889972 by Certified.Gangsta (talk) rvv)
 * 13) (cur) (last) 07:44, 11 April 2007 Certified.Gangsta (Talk | contribs) (rv misleading edit summary)
 * 14) (cur) (last) 22:42, 10 April 2007 LionheartX (Talk | contribs) (→See also - rm redundant links)

I've highlighted a few particular cases where CG's talk page summary doesn't exactly describe his edits, as can be seen from the inconsistency in the size of the page and in the various edit comments.

CG's last edit to Talk:Chinese reunification was Revision as of 05:08, 11 March 2007 and that wasn't a comment, just a revert of one Ideogram's edits. His previous attempt to talk, and it was a genuine attempt, was as far back as 28 September 2006.

And for good measure here's another example of a failure to AGF, and a PA as well:

Regards, Ben Aveling 22:04, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Full Block Log
For technical reasons, displaying Certified.Gangsta's block log does not show blocks applied prior to his changing user name from Freestyle.king to Bonifide.Hustler to Certified.Gangsta.

He appears to have admitted to using one sock, N1u.

Freestyle.king block log
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Freestyle.king


 * 03:16, 17 April 2006 WikiLeon (Talk | contribs) unblocked Freestyle.king (contribs) (Indef is unwarranted)
 * 02:55, 11 April 2006 Guanaco (Talk | contribs) blocked "Freestyle.king (contribs)" with an expiry time of indefinite (This user has done nothing but POV pushing, personal attacks, and vandalism since arriving at Wikipedia.)
 * 04:19, 15 March 2006 Nlu (Talk | contribs) blocked "Freestyle.king (contribs)" with an expiry time of 1 week (Personal attacks, trolling)
 * 06:40, 20 February 2006 Nlu (Talk | contribs) blocked "Freestyle.king (contribs)" with an expiry time of 48 hours (Personal attacks)
 * 04:33, 15 February 2006 Nlu (Talk | contribs) blocked "Freestyle.king (contribs)" with an expiry time of 24 hours (Vandalism, personal attacks against User:Jiang)

Bonafide.hustla block log
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Bonafide.hustla


 * 02:01, 31 July 2006 Kungfuadam (Talk | contribs) blocked "Bonafide.hustla (contribs)" with an expiry time of 24 hours (You and RevolverOcelotX have ended my patience with edit warring and attacks on one another)
 * 23:33, 9 July 2006 Alex Bakharev (Talk | contribs) blocked "Bonafide.hustla (contribs)" with an expiry time of 1 second (This is a technical block to put a notice that my previous block was to harsh and unjustified. I have put it by mistake)
 * 03:19, 26 June 2006 Alex Bakharev (Talk | contribs) blocked "Bonafide.hustla (contribs)" with an expiry time of 24 hours (3rr violations and removing warnings after the final warning)

Certified.Gangsta block log
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Certified.Gangsta


 * 01:10, 14 March 2007 Viridae (Talk | contribs) blocked "Certified.Gangsta (contribs)" (anon. only, account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 24 hours (3RR on Culture of Taiwan)
 * 22:29, 11 March 2007 Physicq210 (Talk | contribs) unblocked Certified.Gangsta (contribs) (mistaken block; no 3RR)
 * 22:26, 11 March 2007 Physicq210 (Talk | contribs) blocked "Certified.Gangsta (contribs)" (anon. only, account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 24 hours (3RR on Culture of Taiwan)
 * 09:28, 14 February 2007 David Levy (Talk | contribs) blocked "Certified.Gangsta (contribs)" (autoblock disabled) with an expiry time of 1 second (The user has requested that I apply a one-second block for the purpose of noting that my previous block was not met with community consensus.)
 * 03:15, 14 February 2007 David Levy (Talk | contribs) unblocked Certified.Gangsta (contribs) (User has agreed to cease disruptive behavior.)
 * 03:04, 14 February 2007 David Levy (Talk | contribs) blocked "Certified.Gangsta (contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 1 hour (disruptive insertion of a phony software message following a block warning)
 * 23:18, 3 December 2006 Centrx (Talk | contribs) blocked "Certified.Gangsta (contribs)" with an expiry time of 1 second (Administrative note (recording warning removed from talk page): This user's contribs appear to be almost exclusively revert warring and accusing established editors of vandalism.)

N1u block log
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Certified.Gangsta


 * 02:58, 11 April 2006 Guanaco (Talk | contribs) blocked "N1u (contribs)" with an expiry time of indefinite (impostor of Nlu)

N1u's only contributions are vandalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/N1u


 * 02:58, 11 April 2006 (hist) (diff) User:N1u
 * 02:57, 11 April 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Jiang (image is unhelpful)
 * 02:56, 11 April 2006 (hist) (diff) User:Jiang (image is unhelpful)

Certified.Gangsta (then Freestyle.king) has apologized for creating the N1u account and denied making the vandalism entries it made, explaining that he left it logged in:


 * I just noticed I was blocked. I have a shared computer and someone else's used my computer. This causes the suspicion of sockpuppet, which i just found out a minute ago that it is illegal. I admit that N1u is kinda that an imitation of Nlu but i didn't know that was illegal. Please unblock my account and IP ASAP. and the screen name N1u was a mistake and will not be used again. Thank you. P.S. Base on my contribution, I do make some useful edits. for example: Delonte West, Boston Celtics, etc.see contribution--Freestyle.king 03:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Certified.Gangsta&diff=47899981&oldid=47747425]


 * First, this is a shared computer so blocking the IP will be unfair. Secondly, I admit my wrongdoing as simply ignorant and lack of understanding of wiki's regulations and I apologize to Nlu and others who are offended. I mean, I didn't know we are not allow to use multiple accounts. Still, anyone who is suspecting me to be fooling the wiki authorities are wrong. It is pretty apparent that N1u is an imitation of Nlu and Freestyle.king is using the same IP address. However, both of my accounts has done nothing abusive. About "N1u" the imitation editing Jiang's controversial images, I want to make it very clear that using "N1u" account is NOT intentional, I just forgot to logout (before I know the mere presence of multiple accounts by one person is against the rule), and I have no intention of blaming the editing on User:Nlu, for anyone smart enough can tell it is me, Freestyle.king, instead of Nlu. And according to User: JzG, removing something that is unhelpful on others talk page is legal. Even though creating a similar account is illegal, this account doesn't need to be block "indefinitely" since I do make useful edits and generally adhere to wikipedia rules after several blocks by Nlu earlier. An unblock of this account is respectfully requested on the basis that no violation of policy has occured to warrant the block.--Freestyle.king 03:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC).

Despite the "forgot to logout" comment, the vandalism was committed within 3 minutes of the accounts creation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=N1u
 * 02:55, 11 April 2006 N1u (Talk | contribs) (New user (Talk | contribs | block))

Freestyle.king was in dispute with both Jiang and Nlu at the time:


 * 


 * 

To Nlu:
 * this ain't no personal attack son. i simply said why did u edit jiang's talk page?? what is wrong with you?? but like i said, y'all are full of crap (i ain't gonna cuss out on herre) so i'm outta dis site. oh and before i go, why did jzg edit my talk page and you edited jiang's talk page but i can't edit no one's talk page. jzg said my picture is unhelpful so he removed it and now tha image is lost, shouldn't he get a warning???--Freestyle.king 07:00, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm filing an arbitration against Jiang and Nlu. Go to my talk page herre or the arbitration page to show your support. Provide evidences of bias and hostility if you have any. thankz--Freestyle.king 06:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Regards, Ben Aveling 23:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Certified.Gangsta

 * BenAveling is hardly a neutral voice here. He has actively patronize User:LionheartX who was community banned by arbitrator User:Dmcdevit (see my statement and diffs provided above) and actively campaigned for Lion's unblock despite obvious sockpuppetry, spamming (a quick example is right here on this page and the workshop page), trolling, personal attack, POV pushing, and other abuse. Here are some of Ben's support for Lion and his socks. The major problem with Ben is that he repeatedly claimed that LionheartX was indef. blocked not banned (when Dmcdevit clearly stated otherwise in the block log, therefore he should be unblocked. And he repeatedly wikilawyered over the same issue. User talk:ApocalypticDestroyer's (whole page of chit-chat with banned user)  


 * Disrupting a request for page protection-


 * stalking my contributions (supporting Lion and Ideogram)-  


 * He also made his anti-Taiwanese position clear  and especially this  ("Even if every Taiwanese citizen stopped speaking Chinese they would still be ethnically Chinese (aboriginies excluded). It's in the blood." represents his clear bias and POV in this matter and also explains his hostility toward me and support of Ideogram and LionheartX)--Certified.Gangsta 02:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

It is true that I supported LionheartX's attempt to be unblocked. I felt that, while not blameless, he had received extremely harsh treatment for sins that would normally only incur a wikivacation in the order of hours or days. And I will point out that many others (not all) ultimately agreed with that position and that LionheartX has, so far, avoided trouble since being unblocked.

It is true that I have on occasion checked Certified.Gangsta's contributions and reverted some of them. This is not out of animosity towards Certified.Gangsta, but simply because many of his edits are not good, as per the diffs he himself has provided above.

It is true that I believe that most Taiwanese are ethnically Chinese. This is not an anti-Taiwanese bias. This is a position that is well supported by all the available authorities, common sense, and personal observation during 6 months I have spent living in Taiwan.

It is true that I dislike Certified.Gangsta. He has cost me a great deal of time that could have been spent far more productively, caused distress to a great many people, some of whom I am quite fond of, and he appears determined to continue to do so. I have tried not to let this affect my comments in this case, and elsewhere on the wiki. My apologies if I have not always completely succeeded.

Regards, Ben Aveling 12:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ideogram and MingTing
"You are an arrogant little fellow and I suggest you watch it TingMing"

Revert war followed on Ideograms page, with some collateral damage, eg.

After which Ideogram seems to have followed TingMing around and undid a lot of his edits. See:

At a glance, many, perhaps most of Ideogram's reverts were (to me) good. Eg changing "Taiwan Province, the Republic of China" back to "Taiwan" (too many places to list) or restoring an explanatory note Treaty of San Francisco. Likewise the page moves, eg moved Demographics of the Republic of China back to Demographics of Taiwan.

Looking further back, I can see similar exchanges. Eg.

Regards, Ben Aveling 00:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Evidence presented by LionheartX
User:Certified.Gangsta have consistently violated WP:SOAP, WP:OR, WP:NPOV, WP:POINT, WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL, WP:3RR, WP:EW, WP:DE, WP:AGF, WP:OWN, and WP:NOT. Certified.Gangsta have attempted to argue that the cause of this dispute is a "China vs. Taiwan" content dispute. Certified.Gangsta have extensively edit-warred and disrupted Wikipedia over trivial things such as the removal of WPCHINA tags on a wide range of articles. Certified.Gangsta has also made incivil and racist personal attacks on his userpage and on talk pages. Certified.Gangsta is a disruptive influence across Wikipedia.

Note: Certified.Gangsta previously edited under the following names:

Certified.Gangsta was previously known as Bonafide.hustla and Freestyle.king before he changed his username twice. See Certified.Gangsta's long block log.

Bishonen's charge that Certified.Gangsta's block log on his first account name Freestyle.king should be forgiven because it was a "newbie account" is baseless. Freestyle.king/Bonafide.hustla/Certified.Gangsta should all be treated as one individual. Certified.Gangsta have an extensive and substantial block log for vandalism, personal attacks, trolling, POV pushing, 3RR violations, edit warring, accusing established editors of vandalism, and disruptive behavior. Bishonen's claim that Certified.Gangsta "turning over a new leaf" and "come a long way" is baseless. Note that this block one year ago was overturned and this user is still causing problems. Certified.Gangsta has exhausted the community's patience.

Personal attacks/Incivility by Certified.Gangsta
Certified.Gangsta is often incivil and engages in personal attacks. Certified.Gangsta have made racist personal attacks.
 * "Ching Chongz and Chinkz are like...man i'm gonna cuss 'em out..Get a life y'all. there ain't no hot chinese girlz. all of 'em ugly-ass b*tchez."
 * Reverted by admin Miborovsky
 * "Ching Chongz and Chinkz are like...man i'm gonna cuss 'em out..Get a life y'all. there ain't no hot chinese girlz. all of 'em ugly-ass b*tchez."
 * Reverted by admin Miborovsky
 * "Ching Chongz and Chinkz are like...man i'm gonna cuss 'em out..Get a life y'all. there ain't no hot chinese girlz. all of 'em ugly-ass b*tchez."
 * Reverted by admin Miborovsky
 * "Ching Chongz and Chinkz are like...man i'm gonna cuss 'em out..Get a life y'all. there ain't no hot chinese girlz. all of 'em ugly-ass b*tchez."
 * Reverted by admin El C
 * "Ching Chongz and Chinkz are like...man i'm gonna cuss 'em out..Get a life y'all. there ain't no hot chinese girlz. all of 'em ugly-ass b*tchez."
 * Reverted by admin El C
 * "Ching Chongz and Chinkz are like...man i'm gonna cuss 'em out..Get a life y'all. there ain't no hot chinese girlz. all of 'em ugly-ass b*tchez."
 * Reverted by admin El C
 * "jiang clearly is clearly a biased person; therefore he's not capable of being an admin. if i got a image dat has "f*ck jiang and f*ck chinese" is it acceptable if i don't endorse it??"
 * "i guess you're definitely a chinese person who is tryin to spread hate on the internet"
 * "remove the picture immediately"
 * "he is such a radical person"
 * "you ain't down wit Freestyle king? cuz that nigga iz mo' than U so show respect fool"
 * "this is obviously a POV pushing project."
 * "rvv"
 * "rvv"
 * "rvv"
 * "unhelpful comment"
 * "removed PA, unjust accusation"
 * "get your ass out of my userspace understand??"
 * "Next time you move a page without consensus, you will be blocked from editing"
 * "This is obvious vandalism"
 * "Chinese communist propaganda administrators who are apparently gang patrolling these articles"

WP:NOT, WP:SOAP, and WP:POINT violations by Certified.Gangsta
Certified.Gangsta have often attempted to turn Wikipedia into a battleground along national lines.
 * "rv possible spams removed"
 * "Another example of gang patrolling by Chinese editor against NPOV editors"
 * "counter several WikiProject China members' POV pushing"
 * "retaliate Jiang's offensive remarks on his userpage/talkpage"
 * "chinese editors on here and there spreading communist propaganda"
 * "there's a lot of gang patrol and communist editors/admins on herre"
 * "The statement strictly act as a retaliation of User:Jiang userpage and talkpage"
 * "until Jiang removed his PA and racist image toward Taiwanese I will NOT remove mine"
 * "I just wanted to make sure this ain't a nationalistic conspiracy"
 * "some conspirators"
 * "rv you just demonstrated your pro-chinese sentiments"

Edit warring by Certified.Gangsta
There is no need to document Certified.Gangsta's edit warring any further. See the evidence provided by other users above for edit warring. Certified.Gangsta hardly does anything other than edit-warring (see Certified.Gangsta's contributions). That is the crux of the problem.

Certified.Gangsta made accusations that canvassing around this RFAR, but note that Certified.Gangsta himself has extensively canvassed in his attempts to have certain users comment on his arbitration case. 

Harassment by Certified.Gangsta
Certified.Gangsta has extensively harassed admin User:Jiang and User:Nlu because political differences.

Certified.Gangsta has used sockpuppets abusively and created an attack account as admitted by Certified.Gangsta.. N1u's contributions speak for themselves. Certified.Gangsta created the attack account User:N1u to attack admins User:Nlu and User:Jiang.


 * "Happy, Happy, Happy!!!!!! Jiang is not happy!!!"
 * "remove the images immediately"
 * "jiang clearly is clearly a biased person; therefore he's not capable of being an admin"
 * "jiang and nlu not capable of being admins"
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * "image is unhelpful"
 * "image is unhelpful"

Certified.Gangsta has done nothing but edit-warring, soapboxing, incivility, and personal attacks since arriving at Wikipedia. See Certified.Gangsta's extensive block history  ; he has been disruptive for a long time. I urge the Arbitration Committee to sanction Certified.Gangsta with the strongest remedies. LionheartX 12:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

{Write your assertion here}
Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

{Write your assertion here}
Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.