User:TJive/Stalin

[The following links have been broken at points. A Google search turned up a cached version of some posts in the thread, including this one which quotes Lance's first mentioned message in full, and lists the contextual posts. --TJive 17:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)]

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2005w04/msg00209.htm

Re: [Marxism] Deaths under Stalin


 * To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition 
 * Subject: Re: [Marxism] Deaths under Stalin
 * From: Lance Murdoch 
 * Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 02:00:17 -0500
 * Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com;h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references;b=nIt0lBXz5YBlOWkV7pLLw2EfKLBIWecHn0w2pReQuWjpqfoT2aKDPIwJmLmE2Uinwssy9RghNnJHT15qaypgNcbn2nI7Cnm1IBLLPkyZa51G+Ip/+LnQlaYyIf2OCegFiKlLKs7HZledoPZeWwfSbihXuNcboaVxVzUicEyx+S0=

In terms of accusations against the USSR or Stalin, the only there there I have ever seen is that a 1st Special Section of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD) summary, dated December 11, 1953 documents 681,692 executions occurring in 1937-1938. Aside from this, I don't see much repression in the USSR.

This seems to be a list mostly of Trotskyists, so I doubt anyone would dispute the above any more than NBC News would, although I'd be interested in anyone disputing the accuracy of the report, or who would be sympathetic to the circumstances surrounding the Great Purge. Molotov in his old age said the Great Purge was necessary for the survival of the Soviet Union in the face of the coming Nazi invasion, and he was probably right.

In the end of course, Stalin's real crime was not 1937 and 1938 executions, but standing up to capitalism, fascism and imperialism.

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2005w04/msg00216.htm

Re: [Marxism] Deaths under Stalin


 * To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition 
 * Subject: Re: [Marxism] Deaths under Stalin
 * From: Lance Murdoch 
 * Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 05:09:53 -0500
 * Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com;h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references;b=VSQiXofmW7I/gKqgBrzaV7vQXoDCE29GVn1HZq7iN1m62xyo3oMaSdvwqrnOZAkEB61IYToRIc8xxN9If8EE2UdLN9lLnz8ajGVFlUDWoLyaNoanIN7FgQ/Ccg4GY7iIEVhw4B9buGAC5iM4Kh/sBXWTYlD1wPGoVSH7d06rH+4=

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:48:30 +0100, Einde O'Callaghan  wrote: > What about the millions in the Gulag? The existence of the prison camps > isn't seriously disputed by anybody.

There are millions in prison in the US today, although people seem to enjoy writing more about Russian prisons from decades ago.

> > This seems to be a list mostly of Trotskyists, > > Since these so-called Trotskyists include the majority of teh delegates > ate the 1934 Party Congress, the so-called "Congress of the Victors" > (Stalinists all) and the majority of the Central Committee members > elected there it seems to me that this is a rather loose use of the term > "Trotskyist", to say the least.


 * This* seems to be a list mostly of Trotskyists. This mailing list.

> However, I'll say no more since the Stalin/Trotsky dispute is taboo on > this list - but if somebody posts nonsense such as this i can't leave it > unanswered. This will be my last word on this topic.

Well someone else was the original poster regarding gulags and Stalin and breaking this taboo I was unaware of, I am just answering it as well.

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2005w04/msg00217.htm

Re: [Marxism] Deaths under Stalin


 * To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition 
 * Subject: Re: [Marxism] Deaths under Stalin
 * From: Lance Murdoch 
 * Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 05:31:11 -0500
 * Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com;h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references;b=D70Ll1/zGeGDYXRXc6DQE+34oSc1HEovagq5OAIulZ+gm8AH2h0adnDsHNLKDrMrEsNuCvREBvXQ6uK9lz89CMLHXElchmzqvs3jQbtvsDAiuOkx1WNaYbUobmshY5370GVIgWTImVzXJXWZRicfUF3EsbeVQ+81c2DT/FcuP9M=

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:13:42 +1100 (EST), Rohan Gaiswinkler  wrote: > To all on the list > It's probably a wasted effort trying to convince these completely > unreconstructed Stalinists of the error of their ways. Let them live in their > fairy-tale, Uncle-Stalin-was-like-Santa-Clause wonderland if they want to, I > say. They are destined to take their religious devotion to Stalin to the grave, > and we shall remain. > > Rohan G

Great, that means people can always go down to Pathfinder Books (during the 2 hours a week or so it's open, Tuesday 11AM-1PM or something) and buy The Death Agony of Capitalism and the Tasks of the Fourth International. National Review will have a steady stream of "ex"-Trot writers for time immemorial (my money on the next one is Snitch Hitchens). And perhaps after I die, some country somewhere (Ceylon?) will finally be taken over by a Trot government, God help them.