User:VAwebteam/To do list

These are the articles that had External Links (ELs) added by VAwebteam, but they were reverted by Some Other Editor because they were thought to be a violation of WP:COI ... since there were supposedly "around 40" of them, I've dubbed it the Top 40 list.

We need to check the edit history of each article to find the deleted URL, add it here to create an article:link pair, and then for each proposed pair decide: - Update: VAwebteam has completed the first assignment, so all of the links (turns out to have been more like 60 than 40) have been recovered, and some have been evaluated, and either integrated or rejected ... I've copied the earlier version of this entire page to the talk page as an archive, then removed all of the article:link pairs, and on this page, removed all of the instructions/comments so that we can start fresh with the second phase, "Evaluation & Integration". &mdash;72.75.70.147 02:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Is it appropriate to add, or is it too off-topic?
 * 2) Should it be used as a citation, or just added to the EL list?
 * 3) If no place already exists to hang a citation, should something be added for which it can be cited?

Second assignment for VAwebteam
The article:link pairs recovered by VAwebteam in the first assignment have the section headers linked to the article; I left them that way for easy identification of the ones that still need to have the templates added ... regardless of whether they will be used as references or just added to an exisiting (or new) External Link(s) section, the explicit ELs need to be replaced with this   boilerplate:

Note: The  field is only appropriate where there is a parent directory to the V&A page with a navigation menu for similar sites/pages, e.g., the   directory and its children ... here are some of the more common ones (add more as identified):


 * - Fashion, Jewellery & Accessories
 * - Paintings & Drawings
 * - Photography
 * - Prints & Books
 * - Sculpture

Note: The  should always be the current date in ISO 8601 format, and it does not have to be changed when the link is integrated into the article ... it just documents that Some Other Editor has verified that the URL is valid, so it doesn't matter if it is off by a few days.
 * FYI, whenever I encounter a citation that has an access date over a year old, I usually click it to verify that it's still there, and if it has evaporated (as can happen when blogs are used), then I place it inside of  comment brackets and, if I don't have the time/inclination to find a replacement citation, I add a   tag ... naturally, I note what was done in the edit summary.

Because of the totally asynchronous and intermittent nature of this process, all comments should be signed, dated, and indented as appropriate for easy scanning. &mdash;72.75.70.147 02:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Versace
COMMENT: This was a website build for a retrospective of Versace's work in 2003, there's quite a lot of information about him and his work on this site as well as images of some of his most famous creations.VAwebteam 14:08, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Guy Bourdin
COMMENT: A page of images and information about Guy Bourdin, from an exhibition held in 2003.VAwebteam 14:08, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Arts and Crafts movement
COMMENT: This website was created for the International Arts and Crafts exhibition held in 2005, the site has a lot of information about the movement worldwide, with many images in a database and virtual tour of the exhibition, plus other fun bits like creating your own arts and crafts tile.VAwebteam 14:07, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Modern architecture
COMMENT: A link to a page on shop building design between the wars, lots of images. VAwebteam 14:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Surrealism
COMMENT: Link to website created for the Surrealism exhibition this year. Lots of object highlights and information. Wikipedia page is quite extensive and think this probably fits under overview websites external links.VAwebteam 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Zaha Hadid
COMMENT: This links through to a fly through of the designs for the Phaeno Science Center. It's video so perhaps not appropriate for wikipedia? VAwebteam 15:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Issey Miyake
COMMENT: Images from a fashion show held at the V&A in 2001 featuring Miyake's signature Pleats Please fabric.VAwebteam 15:21, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

William Morris
COMMENT: Link to page full of information about Morris's wallpaper designs. VAwebteam 15:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Dale Chihuly
Comment: A link to one of the V&A's earlier microsites - covers further information about Chihuly and his work.

Diane Arbus
COMMENT: Link to the a website created for the Arbus exhibition in 2005/6. Information about Arbus and several images. VAwebteam 15:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I recently added the unofficial Diane Arbus website to the external links of that article. Can someone review whether adding the above exhibition link is appropriate? It is possible that there have been lots of such exhibitions, and adding this one would favour it over others, I don't know for sure. Note that the V&A exhibition is already mentioned in a blog review linked as a reference, though whether that is any better is debatable! Thanks. Carcharoth 15:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Modernism
COMMENT: This website was created for the Modernism exhibition last year, it features lots of images of objects and information about Modernism which may or may not be covered already in the wikipedia article. It would probably be regarded as a link giving an overview. VAwebteam 15:42, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Christine Keeler
Note: located in References, so revert restored … rename section to External link?

Reviewed article:link proposals
These are the article:link entries that have been reviewed:
 * † - have actually undergone the suggested revisions and been integrated into the article
 * ‡ - have been rejected as inappropriate for reasons discussed in the subsection

As articles are evaluated and either rejected or integrated, they should be added to the end of the list, so they're more or less in chronological order by when they were closed. &mdash;72.75.70.147 02:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Fig leaf †

 * - already restored (used as citation) &mdash;72.75.70.147 20:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * - already restored (used as citation) &mdash;72.75.70.147 20:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * - already restored (used as citation) &mdash;72.75.70.147 20:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The Great Exhibition ‡
Comment: This is a link to Well Built Site (WBS) that allows the reader to explore various articles related to A painting of V&A at the opening of the Great Exhibition with about 50 people in it ... you could spend at least a half-hour exploring all the stuff associated with this painting, like who all of these people are.
 * The Opening of the Great Exhibition, a painting by Henry Courtney Selous
 * The Opening of the Great Exhibition, a painting by Henry Courtney Selous

Conclusion: Do not link ... this painting is worthy of an article of its own, with Wikilinks to other articles, e.g., one of the five lists from the INDEX link is "ROYAL COURT & FOREIGN OFFICIALS": How many in this list already have articles here? (A redlink might be caused the linked name being incorrect, not because there is not article.) This is the tip of an iceberg upon which someone could spend more that a few hours of work ... it should have its own sandbox for discussion, and maybe create a Project around it, but for now, MOVE ON.
 * 1) Queen Victoria
 * 2) Prince Albert
 * 3) The Duke of Cambridge - (there are a bunch of them ... which is the one in the painting?)
 * 4) Princess William of Prussia - (could this be Wilhelmine of Prussia? if so, which of the 3 with articles?)
 * 5) Mary Semour, Maid of Honour
 * 6) Princess Mary Adelaide of Cambridge
 * 7) Victoria Adelaide, The Princess Royal - (could this be Princess Victoria Adelaide of Schleswig-Holstein?)
 * 8) Victoria Maria Louise, The Duchess of Kent
 * 9) Albert Edward, the Prince of Wales
 * 10) The Marchioness of Douro, Lady in Waiting

Carnaby Street ‡
Comment: The V&A article's intro says it all ... "FASHION IN 1960S LONDON" ... OTOH, the Wiki article is a piece of fey-yu, and needs a LOT of work to even be worthy of Start Class ... the V&A link to an exhibition would be a worthy EL to add when someone finishes putting some lipstick on this pig, but for now, MOVE ON. &mdash;72.75.70.147 4 June 2007
 * The Heart of Swinging London 1964–1972
 * The Heart of Swinging London 1964–1972

Animal style ‡

 * - different subject, should not be re-added imho Johnbod 17:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree … since the article is about Zoomorphic style (the alternate title of the subject), an EL to the V&A site about an exhibition devoted to Zoomporphic Architecture does not strike me as being off-topic … if it had been called, "buildings that look like animals" (to quote from the linked page), then maybe you wouldn't have rejected the association? :-) &mdash;72.75.70.147 20:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes I would. One is about a period in (very) Early Medieval art, the other about modern architecture. The connection is wholly superficial & non-significant. Johnbod 00:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Copy that ... my bad ... I was in a hurry and only did a superficial scan, but you read for content and caught a valid discrepancy, with which I totally agree now that I see it ... closing this one as Do not add. &mdash;72.75.70.147 06:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes I would. One is about a period in (very) Early Medieval art, the other about modern architecture. The connection is wholly superficial & non-significant. Johnbod 00:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Copy that ... my bad ... I was in a hurry and only did a superficial scan, but you read for content and caught a valid discrepancy, with which I totally agree now that I see it ... closing this one as Do not add. &mdash;72.75.70.147 06:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Maud of Wales †

 * - fine i readded Johnbod 17:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 10:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * - fine i readded Johnbod 17:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 10:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Italian Renaissance †

 * - fine I readded Johnbod 17:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 10:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * - fine I readded Johnbod 17:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 10:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

John Benjamin Stone †

 * - fine I readded Johnbod 17:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 10:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * - fine I readded Johnbod 17:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 10:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Stations of the Cross †

 * - fine to re-add, or include in text. Should mention Dürer too. Johnbod 19:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; added as an EL reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 20:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * - fine to re-add, or include in text. Should mention Dürer too. Johnbod 19:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; added as an EL reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 20:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

John Constable †

 * - had already been re-added; I re-added the other. Johnbod 19:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 09:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * - had already been re-added; I re-added the other. Johnbod 19:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 09:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur; reformatted with  &mdash;72.75.70.147 09:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Criminal tattoo ‡
Comment: This is a coyote ugly stub of a site that needs a lot of work by V&A staff before it can be used as a reference … it should not be linked. &mdash;72.75.70.147 08:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Cristobal Balenciaga †
Note: correction of V&A URL - no revert … I did some cleanup of the {cite web}, like wikilinking V&A in the  field, and the correct date format for the   (Mediawiki generated a redlink because the period in "Mar. 11, 2007" confused the parser; fully spelling "March" would have been correct for this date format.)

Comment: This link is used as a footnote in 4 places, while a similar one from the Metropolitan Museum of Art is used in 8 places … I'm not at all sure why both are so overused. &mdash;72.75.70.147 08:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Claude glass †
Note: copyed only - no EL added/reverted

Comment: Two links to V&A in article ... replaced all ELs with. &mdash;72.75.70.147 04:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Vivienne Westwood ‡
Comment: This link is to a site for a currently running exhibition about a living person, and is not very "friendly" to navigate ... unfortunately, because the one of the menu choices is, "Book Tickets," and the most prominent off-page link is an advertisement for Motorola mobile phones, this smells Too Much like spam, so it should not be added at this time (try later, after it has been archived under the V&A  directory) ... also, as already noted on the article by the   tag, even though the subject's WP:N is beyond question, there is nonetheless a WP:A issue that needs to be addressed, and the V&A link is no help as a WP:RS citation for use anywhere in the article. &mdash;72.75.70.147 12:07, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Documentary Photography ‡
Comment: This has already been discussed elsewhere and rejected but, just to explain, was added as I thought hearing from contemporary documentary photographers may be interesting for those reading the page.
 * Hear the views of a selection of contemporary documentary photographers
 * Hear the views of a selection of contemporary documentary photographers
 * Concur - External links discourages links to audio files. &mdash;72.75.70.147 19:12, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Kylie Minogue †
Note: High Traffic article - beau coup edits since revert @ 14:32, 29 May 2007 by Beetstra

Re-added the link. It has lots of unique content that goes beyond what's in this featured article. Jehochman Talk 13:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Concur - Wow! 65 cited references … makes me wish I had time to read the article. :-) BTW, much as it pains me, "Jewellery" is how they spell it in the UK, and that's the name of the collection as it should apprar in the  field, so I corrected it in the article. &mdash;72.75.70.147 02:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Model 3107 chair †
Comment: No harm in adding this as an EL … might want to add a copy of the photograph from the Christine Keeler article that is mentioned. &mdash;72.75.70.147 08:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * – The Keeler chair compared with the Model 3107
 * – The Keeler chair compared with the Model 3107

Link re-added. I'm really quite shamed by the way you got beaten up by the wikithugs. This kind of link, to outstanding content from a national-quality resource, is a godsend for wikipedia. People should be encouraging you to add as many more links like this as you can to wikipedia, and not have treated you like this. I do hope you won't give up on us. Jheald 20:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Jean-Charles de Castelbajac †
COMMENT: This page has quite a bit of information about Castelbajac, the wikipedia page is a little short - I thought this might give people a little more information, perhaps this is an instance where I could take some information from the V&A page and add to wikipedia? VAwebteam 14:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Added with other references. — Athaenara  ✉  19:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Kimono †
COMMENT: This is already quite an extensive page in wikipedia, it would be nice to link to this page on 20th century kimonos, it features 13 images of wonderful kimonos and the textiles used to make them.VAwebteam 14:09, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

James Stuart (1713-1788)†

 * Absolutely - classic example of an easy to use link that is far better than the article. Ideally expand the article a bit from it also. Johnbod 18:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely - classic example of an easy to use link that is far better than the article. Ideally expand the article a bit from it also. Johnbod 18:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely - classic example of an easy to use link that is far better than the article. Ideally expand the article a bit from it also. Johnbod 18:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Concur: Article has an EL to an article from The Guardian, so I'll change that to a citation while I'm at it ... also researched some ISBNs for reprints of the subject's 18th century books. &mdash;72.75.70.147 00:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Incorporated with other references and copyedits. — Athaenara  ✉  21:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Christopher Dresser †
COMMENT: This link has already been readded. VAwebteam 15:10, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Architectural models †

 * Yes, use it, although not all the objects by any meansd are stictly Architectural models. Johnbod 18:15, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, use it, although not all the objects by any meansd are stictly Architectural models. Johnbod 18:15, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

David Goldblatt †
COMMENT: Link to 6 images of the David Goldblatt's photographs.VAwebteam 14:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Added citation for V&A among public collections. — Athaenara  ✉  21:38, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Islamic art †

 * Lots of links already, but this is a good one. Johnbod 18:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Lots of links already, but this is a good one. Johnbod 18:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Glen Luchford †
Comment: Link to a page with further information and 4 photographs, Wikipedia article very short.
 * Use it Johnbod 18:09, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * AddedVAwebteam 15:48, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Gothic art †

 * I'd say this can be used, although the article has a good number of general links already. The virtal exhibition has plenty of specific information on objects when you burrow. Johnbod 18:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say this can be used, although the article has a good number of general links already. The virtal exhibition has plenty of specific information on objects when you burrow. Johnbod 18:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Dorothea Lange †

 * Selection of photographs in the Victoria and Albert Museum's collection
 * Selection of photographs in the Victoria and Albert Museum's collection

Comment: This is a link to just a couple of her photos, no less crufty than any of the other External Links already there, and certainly less User Hostile than the Library of Congress link ... not suitable to use as a cite, no harm as Just Another EL (JAEL). &mdash;72.75.70.147 8 June 2007
 * AddedVAwebteam 15:53, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Dovima †
Comment: The EL for Yves Saint-Laurent is a duplicate of the one used as a footnote in the article, which needs to be reformatted with a and bracketed with a   … I think that an EL to the photograph by Avedon is not a problem, as there is no place to use it as a reference.
 * – Photograph of Dovima by Richard Avedon
 * – Photograph of Dovima by Richard Avedon


 * Placed V&A citation & added WP:CITE format for other. — Athaenara  ✉  18:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Gustave Le Gray †
COMMENT: Links to a page about Le Gray and the seascapes he was famous for, with images of 10 of his photographs held in the V&A's collection.VAwebteam 14:08, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Photojournalism †
COMMENT: A link to a page about mid-20th century photojournalism with quite a few images.VAwebteam 14:09, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Chinese photography †
COMMENT: Link to a website created for the Between Past and Future exhibition 2005/2006. Lots of information about many different Chinese photographers plus their photographs.VAwebteam 14:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Lee Friedlander †
COMMENT: Link to 6 images of photographs by Lee Friedlander.VAwebteam 14:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Stained glass †
COMMENT: Link to pages about stained glass, featuring different pieces of stained glass in the V&A's collection and the stories accompanying them. Also features a short video on making stained glass. VAwebteam 14:57, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Harold Eugene Edgerton †
COMMENT: Link to images of 5 photographs by Edgerton. VAwebteam 15:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Celia Birtwell †
COMMENT: Links to a page about Celia Birtwell's designs and her collaboration with husband Ossie Clark. Features sketches and photographs of Birtwell's textile designs as dresses. VAwebteam 15:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

John Piper †
COMMENT: Links to a page about a piece of stained glass designed by John Piper - nice bit of extra information for this wikipedia page. VAwebteam 15:09, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Gregory Crewdson †
COMMENT: Links to a page of 7 photographs by Gregory Crewdson. VAwebteam 15:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Don McCullin †
COMMENT: Link to a page of 6 images of photographs by Don McCullin. VAwebteam 15:14, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Cecil Beaton †
COMMENT: Link to page of 6 photographs by Cecil Beaton. VAwebteam 15:18, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Nick Knight (photographer)†
COMMENT: Links to a page with many phogographs by Nick Knight. VAwebteam 15:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:19, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Alfred Stieglitz †
Comment: A link to a page of 7 photographs of Georgia O'Keeffe by Stieglitz. (O'Keeffe is mentioned throughout the Wikipedia article.) &mdash;72.75.70.147 8 June 2007
 * Added VAwebteam 14:19, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Coat of arms†
COMMENT: I added this as a bit of fun, it's an interactive that allows you to create your own coat of arms. VAwebteam 15:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:19, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Mary Quant †
COMMENT: Links to a page about Mary Quant with 9 images of Quant outfits. VAwebteam 15:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 14:23, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Anna Piaggi†
COMMENT: Link to more images and information about Anna Piaggi. VAwebteam 14:18, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:26, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Bill Brandt †
COMMENT: Links to lots of images and information about Bill Brandt, the wikipedia page is quite short. VAwebteam 15:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:26, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

1960s in fashion †
COMMENT: This section of the V&A site gives extensive information about 60s fashion and textiles. VAwebteam 15:37, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 15:26, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

History of knitting
Comment: There is already an EL in the article to a different V&A page … need to evaluate which one should be used, as two would be excessive representation (personally, I think that the one currently used is better than this proposed one.) &mdash;72.75.70.147 09:27, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added VAwebteam 09:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Art Deco
Comment: This is the portal to a "virtual tour" of a 2003 exhibition … it is not intuitively obvious what the reader should do with this page, and I suggest that the link not be included. &mdash;72.75.70.147 08:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Added different link used. VAwebteam 09:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

COMMENTS
You will see I've had a go at explaining why I linked to the pages on the V&A site for each article. Whilst going through I remembered about copyright. Many of the photographers pages have links to pages of images, the V&A has permission to use them on their site but I'm not sure about putting them of wikipedia. I remember thinking when I was going through how disappointing it was to read about the photographers work and not being able to see examples of it, hence the link. The same applies to many of the other images on the V&A site, much time is spent seeking copyright permission! We would really like to add images to articles though, and this will be part of my efforts where I know it's ok to use them. Hope this all makes sense. I look forward to reading what you think, thank you again for all your help. VAwebteam 16:02, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Fine work, Grasshopper! I'm kind of distracted at the moment (and spent my last scheduled period getting an IP vandal from Jakarta blocked), so I only gave your recent edits a cursory glance, but I'll come back Real Soon Now to examine them all in detail and make suggestions re: cite or EL ... as for the copyrights, if there's a problem with V&A not being able to "share" images, alternate sources are George Eastman House and Library of Congress, like for Dorothea Lange ... she has enough already, but she came to mind as an example of "certain knowledge" that copies of some of her images (like Migrant Mother) would be visible on all three sites, as well as beau coup others ... GTG, as She Who Must Be Fed just will not tolerate being ignored any longer. :-) &mdash;72.75.70.147 20:50, 17 June 2007 (UTC)