User:Valfontis/Archive 11

User:Xeugene and Pacifica Forum
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Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding recent edits by Xeugene at Pacifica Forum. Thank you. — Gavia immer (talk) 22:50, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Attention talk page stalkers--help w/ non-Oregon FA push?
Does anyone have experience helping get a musician article to FA or GA? Anyone a fan of obscure but critically acclaimed southern singer-songwriters? As much as I love music, I avoid most band articles because they are so overrun with well-meaning fanboys and girls. I also tend to avoid the FA process, as the few times I've poked my nose in there, I've encountered an awfully dismissive attitude from the reviewers. But if anyone would like to help me get Vic Chesnutt up to GA or beyond, let me know. WP:NOTMEMORIAL and all that, but the guy's article could at least suck a little less. Thanks to tedder for spookily coincidentally being the one to semi-protect the article after premature reports that Vic had died, thus alerting me to the situation. Thanks! Katr67 (talk) 01:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * He would have wanted us to do it: "Then soon Michael Stipe saw me playing and a couple of years down the road we made an album together and then the rest is wikipedia." Hee hee. Katr67 (talk) 09:32, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I could probably lend a hand on this. Let me know what kind of help you want. -Pete (talk) 17:13, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Same here.  Little Mountain  5   17:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * (ec) Cool, thanks! I've got loads of reliable sources, interviews etc., so it will easy to add info showing what a big deal he was among other artists vs. telling about it. I plan to try to add a little at a time so I don't get overwhelmed. The thing I'm not clear on is how much "scandal" can go in. (Alas, BLP isn't an issue, but...) I've seen celebrity articles where it's well known the person did this or that, but the article seems to have been sanitized. Mr. Chesnutt himself was quite open about his past drug abuse, alcoholism, depression and previous suicide attempts and these topics certainly inform his lyrics. It seems weird to not mention it, but previous (admittedly poorly sourced) efforts at adding the material were removed. I'm pretty sure Vic wouldn't give a crap about "speaking ill of the dead" but I know there is sometimes a fine line between gossip and information.
 * Another tricky point--in his most recent interviews, he discussed his huge medical bills and getting sued by the hospital over his debt because he's bascially uninsurable (pre-existing condition--his quadriplegia). He in fact said he was suicidal over it. Now folks want to make Chesnutt an ::ahem:: poster child for what's wrong with American health care. "Joe Lieberman Killed Vic Chesnutt" and all that. In fact someone on a Chesnutt discussion board said I should be sure to mention the name of the hospital where he died and that it was the same one that was suing him. Right. Of course that sucks, but WP:SOAPBOX and all that. So basically I need help keeping the article factual and neutral and not letting fangirl creep occur. At least his article won't attract quite the mopey teen contingent that Elliott Smith has. Hmm, that article is FA, I should go look at it... If you're not familiar with Chesnutt, do some reading and see if there's anything not currently in the article that should be--anything that leaps out at you as a non-fan that piques your interest.
 * Oh, two other things that may or may not matter--Kristin Hersh was tweeting realtime updates of his most recent medical situation, and despite this, his death had been prematurely reported and then pulled completely from news sources (rather than corrected). Not sure if his article is the place to discuss the pros and cons of modern media and the ethics of journalism, but it has been discussed elsewhere. Katr67 (talk) 17:51, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

another random question for you: infobox building/floor area
Do you know if the "floor area" param of Template:Infobox building is for a single floor, or for all floors? tedder (talk) 05:05, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Never noticed it before. No idea. I would imagine it's all floors though. Katr67 (talk) 09:14, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

district dab
So "what links here" doesn't show much, but I know we have a Central School District, as well as the one that is currently at that article. Can you organize and dab? I'm sure if OR and CA both have one, there are some elsewhere too. tedder (talk) 01:01, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Another: Harrisburg School District. I could do these, but I don't trust myself to do it right. tedder (talk) 01:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I "pre-dabbed" several of these, so it takes a Google search to find them again. I'll see what I can do. Katr67 (talk) 02:59, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Ta da! Katr67 (talk) 03:13, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Bueno. So what did you do- google "central school district site:wikipedia.org", or what? In other words, I'm curious how you found the other states. tedder (talk) 03:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

At some point I got frustrated with the search box on Wikipedia, so I used that a basis for My custom search, which I think I tweaked to show more hits. Fewer steps and I can find talk page discussions more easily. I have a link to it stashed on my userpage and on my desk. I use it all the time. So I searched on "Central School District" + "List of school districts in". I noted there were a lot of "Foo Central School Districts" but I didn't want to go there. Katr67 (talk) 16:53, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

disambiguating "Foo" to "Foo (City, State)"

 * Context: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Schools

Hopefully not too long, but basically, is there a MOS or guideline saying that "Foo (City, State)" is preferred for article titles over "Foo (State)"? I know the latter is in vogue, but not sure of MOS. Hoping to prevent WP:CREEP by linking to existing policy that would cover school names, and I thought knew you'd know. You can reply here and I'll ferry over, if you'd rather not get involved. tedder (talk) 08:33, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Quickly, without reading the discussion, I don't think it was ever agreed upon as policy, or even guideline, but for a while the standard for schools articles was that if the school was named after the place, it was only "Foo (State)" and all other schools were "Foo (City, State)". I like it. So Arlington High School (Oregon) but Sheldon High School (Eugene, Oregon). From an aesthetic standpoint "Arlington High School (Arlington, Oregon)" would be overlong and redundant. I believe this style is consistent across all the Oregon HS articles. When I get a minute I'll dig up my old talk page queries of "WTF?! I hope it doesn't get changed. Katr67 (talk) 15:59, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Various discussions--note the overwhelming uninterest. @_@
 * Naming conventions (U.S. schools)--the failed proposal
 * Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (schools)
 * Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (U.S. schools)
 * Katr67 (talk) 18:11, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Right. I was hoping there was a non-school convention. And the OR HS articles are consistent because of you, which is why I hoped you'd have a pointer :-) tedder (talk) 18:18, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the non-school convention varies. With most geographic entries it would be, for example, "Foo Geographic Feature (Oregon)" unless there is more than one, then it might be further dabbed using the county, city or, in the case of rivers, the tributary system. I'm sure you've seen examples of that. For NRHP buildings, it appears that the standard is "Foo Notable Building (City, State)", hence Jacksonville Historic District (Jacksonville, Oregon). Even though it is named after the city and it's the only one in Oregon. Bleh. A school falls somewhere between being a building and an entity... I'll go see what else I can find. Katr67 (talk) 18:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Yeah, I don't expect there is as much duplication in other fields (Intel (Hell, Michigan), anyone?). Considering they/we can't get WP:SCH to succeed, I don't know it's even worth trying to get the naming conventions ironed out too much. tedder (talk) 18:36, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Exactly. I try to keep the mess down to a dull roar in Oregon. The rest of the wiki can go to Michigan. Katr67 (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Go to Michigan" might be used around here more. It's subversive enough to be fun. tedder (talk) 18:52, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'm sure Michigan is a fine place. I'd be more inclined to say "Go to Florida". YMMV. Anyway, here's the be-all-and-end-all as far as a rule for disambiguation qualifiers: WP:PRECISION. Other than that, take your pick: . Katr67 (talk) 19:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Florida is only for when you really don't like someone. PRECISION is definitely what I was hoping for. 'Nuff said, I think. Oh- got an alternate form of OSAA's championship records for all time in all sports (OMG!), and also have Bailey's "Main Street: Northeastern Oregon" book sitting here. tedder (talk) 03:44, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * re: OSAA--we need shorthand for "tedder inserts xkcd comic here." re: Main Street--Great! Although I can easily remember long past annoying policy discussions, I can't remember which community came up with that book as a "further reading". Is it good? Any useful info you can add to whatever article that was? Katr67 (talk) 16:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, xkcd macro would be nice. "Main Street" was something we chatted about, you put it on the talk page, but.. I really don't know what town you mentioned it on. Perhaps one that I quipped about "paved paradise"? Wait, THAT'S IT! Talk:Paradise, Oregon. I'm reading through it, putting post-it flags in where I want to extract information. I'm still giddy after my research yesterday on Linc and PSU history, on a bit of a dead-tree roll, I guess. tedder (talk) 17:43, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

keep an eye on this page

 * User:Tedder/mainstreet

I'm adding more complex things to articles as I go, which I'm sure you've seen on your watchlist. The rest of it are extractions for me/you to add when we have time to word them properly. tedder (talk) 21:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * And wow, that was strange. Lime, Oregon appeared in the OregonSearchResult tonight. I googled it to add the lime factoid from the Main Street book, it was entirely coincidental timing. I assumed you'd created it years ago! tedder (talk) 04:59, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, it was just sucky like an old article because I didn't have OGN handy. I noticed there's going to be a wind farm there. Did you check out those pics of the ruins? Katr67 (talk) 05:15, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm amazed, I didn't know that much detail was in OGN. Hadn't looked at the ruins, looking now, and they are gerat. We might have gotten lost in a flour mill up north a few years ago.. we both love that sort of thing. tedder (talk) 05:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Cringing about this typo and the Alder, Oregon thing too. Thanks for keeping me honest on those. I'm working from my laptop, sure, that's excuse. tedder (talk) 21:53, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Laptop, uh huh... Meanwhile, I'm cranky to discover that someone is wrong on the Internet!!! Per . It's the Wallowa County p.o. that was named "Hipp". But the p.o. was in Benton County...wasn't it?! OGN seems to think so. I think USGS was smoking crack that day, but sometimes OGN is a little iffy too... Katr67 (talk) 22:05, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ugh, that sounds familiar. Spent way too much time trying to narrow down the creation of Lincoln Hall- various RS put it at 1911-1918. The building says 1911 across the header, though the most RS I've found says 1912. And the 1918 source was reasonably RS too! I hate when adding more information makes a situation worse.


 * I'm done reading the Main Street book, just trying to finish transcribing my notes/flags from it. That's why the page numbers are heading back down. Someone accused me of having the DTs because my home connection is still dead, there's some truth to that!


 * Oh, I ordered a copy of the NAU thesis, dunno if you saw my note about that. Dunno if there'll be anything useful, but it'll come interlibrary to my library, rather than having to pay to get into the OHS, which is actually closer to me than any library. tedder (talk) 22:13, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Pine Grove, Hood River County, Oregon

 * Congrats on the DYK. Nice panorama by Tedder too. Finetooth (talk) 17:50, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I figured tedder's photo needed more than one sentence to go with it. Like I told him, I'm always surprised when a place turns out to be more interesting than at first glance. Katr67 (talk) 19:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Thumbs up

 * Happy Wikiversary to meeeeee!!! Katr67 (talk) 17:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Congrats, 4 years down and we must be getting close to finishing this thing up. Aboutmovies (talk) 21:44, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Didn't you just have an Wikiversary in November too? Only 10,000 more Old Dead Guys (tm) and 2,000 Podunks to go... Katr67 (talk) 21:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

a piping hot batch of nitpicking for you
The first one is ~1100 words. Eesh. The rest are super-short.


 * history sections
 * Portland Public Schools (Oregon)
 * Lincoln High School (Portland, Oregon)
 * Franklin High School (Portland, Oregon)
 * Benson Polytechnic High School
 * Jefferson High School (Portland, Oregon)
 * Grant High School (Portland, Oregon)
 * Cleveland High School (Portland, Oregon)
 * Roosevelt High School (Portland, Oregon)


 * all history in these
 * Washington High School (Portland, Oregon)
 * Thomas A. Edison High School (Oregon) (new stub, probably needs to be dabbed/renamed because of Thomas A. Edison High School (Beaverton, Oregon))


 * the stuff about education in these
 * Harvey W. Scott (diff)
 * Daniel A. Grout (diff)

Okay, I'm completely braindead now. Been working on this for 5 hours straight. tedder (talk) 07:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Aieee! Katr67 (talk) 10:11, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Dear Lord of the Unincorporated Community
As I have invaded your solemn turf, as you may have noticed with your watchlist lighting up as bright as the Shilo Inn's headquarters on U.S. 26 at Christmas, I come seeking council on further diffusion of that category. Basically you have worked hard to get it over 400 articles, so I'm trying to get it down under 200. I hit the counties I figured had the largest number, but now I am at a point where I'm not sure which would be next. So please tell me which ones have the most from your work.

Also, I standardized the CDPs in the counties I have completed, placing them all in the unincorp cat as well as the CDP cat. Some had the unincorp in Oregon already there and others didn't, and I think it makes sense to have them in both as the CDP cat is a sister branch in the category tree and not a parent or child category. Thanks. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I thought "Dear Lord, but that is ambitious!" Just FYI, some CDPs aren't exactly communities--there have been lengthy discussions about that. There are 6 or 8 that are just names made up by the census bureau. I don't recall if I've gone through them all or if the omissions were just oversights. If you think that that hairsplitting is important I can look up my list. (It's basically all the ones that don't have an entry in OGN as having existed as a town with a post office.) I've given up caring about the categories though, as there's that editor who seems to fight me every step of the way with the templates and cats. Whatever, nobody knows these places exist now, so why make them easier to find on Wikipedia? I have a really pretty spreadsheet of communities. I can tell which places have the most potential articles, would that help. That is to say, that even if all the redlinks were filled in, Crook and Curry county just ain't gonna have that many articles. You definitely got the most densely populated ones. BRB... Katr67 (talk) 09:41, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Douglas, Jackson, Lincoln, Umatilla for starters. Katr67 (talk) 09:47, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Next, Baker, Klamath, Multnomah, Linn, Benton. Then Polk, Tillamook, Coos, Josephine, Malheur. Lemme know if you need more. Katr67 (talk) 09:56, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll work on the first list tomorrow. I had looked at Polk and it had about 10 current ones, so I'll likely wait on those. I may not create cats for each county, just depends on how many are in each county to justify having a cat (10 or more for me usually). But if it gets down to say cats for 30 of 36 counties, then I will just finish it off. With the CDP, I figured they are communities enough, even if the census bureau just made them up or what not. And with most of them I think the pages often contain redirects for the actual communities such as the one for Rockcreek, Oregon (not sure why the census folks chose to remove the space as everything there except the CDP is Rock Creek), so there shouldn't be too many problems. Aboutmovies (talk) 11:09, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Birkenfeld, Oregon
Ah, you beat me to the article. Good work, I was still compiling research. I'll add it when I get it all together. About my photos, I would be more than willing to upload them. Keep up the good work. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 18:52, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks. I couldn't find much just on the Internet but I see there is a Mist-Birkenfeld Historic Society, so hopefully you can find out more than I did. Thanks again! Katr67 (talk) 21:22, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Pioneer Cemetery redir
While patrolling Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, I removed the db tag you placed on Pioneer Cemetery. You may be correct that this redirect is unwise (note that the creator of the page suggested it might eventually be converted to a dab page). But this isn't, IMO, within the narrow limits of thespeedy deletion criteria. I would advise taking it to WP:RFD, unless you find enough other "Pioneer Cemetery" pages to construct a dab now. DES (talk) 18:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * so-I-fixed-it Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 19:36, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Small communities in WashCo
OK, I was out getting pics of Gleenwood, Balm Grove, and Gales Creek. But, any idea what this "community" is at OR6 & OR8 south of Gleenwood? Unlike many of the names on a map but no community, this seems to be a community with no name on the map. It seems to far south of Gleenwood, and though some store signs say Gales Creek, it is far to north (I think they are referring to the actual stream across the road). Ditto with this cluster of houses on OR6 north of Balm Grove. Maybe Balm Grove North? Thanks with any assistance. Aboutmovies (talk) 20:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Gleenwood"? I know Balm Grove is a populated place, but holy mysterious plats, Batman--I'll see if I can find something on GNIS. When I get home I'll check my gazetteer--it seems to have most everything. (BTW, have you been to Hillside? There is a nice old school and church there. I was too busy dying (first century ride) and thinking about getting back to Champoeg to take a picture.) Katr67 (talk) 21:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, Gleenwood, its what resulted from the great merge of Greenwood and Glenwood. I think its in the Mid-Valley, nestled in a gleen of trees that are mostly harmless. I wish there was a way to "map everything" from GNIS in a county, similar to the map everything geo template we have. That way you could more easily figure out what is what. And, no, didn't make to Hillside, though I saw it on the map along with the church/cemetery. It looked like it was a bit out of the way with some high creeks on some likely not paved roads along with some foothills, and the dad in me said I probably shouldn't go that way with the 18 month old on board. But at least from a map it looked more like a populated place than Balm Grove, going by where the Balm Grove label shows up and the similarly titled street (though the "platted" section to the north might be it too). Aboutmovies (talk) 22:02, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The road to Hillside is paved. I don't do mountain biking. It is hilly though. Good to hear you're training your AMette up right. So, if the first one you wanted me to check is that little loop made by Lyda drive, I got nothing. Ditto for the second one. There are several former little po's and such, but (where Coleman's Restaurant is) is the only one actually near the highway. By the looks of Dorman Pond that used to be a timber company. (more on Washburn here: http://www.brian894x4.com/GalesCreekandWilsonRiverRR.html) So it appears that everything from Glenwood to Gales Creek (not withstanding Balm Grove) refers to itself as "Gales Creek". It probably all has a Gales Creek address, anyway. Sorry I couldn't be more help. Katr67 (talk) 22:51, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, I have a pic of the greater Washburn metro area for later use if needed, as well as Balm Grove North (or North Balm Grove). I looked through my sources I unpacked today and nothing. Though there are a lot more "communities" than what we have so far. Aboutmovies (talk) 03:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

sugar, lumber, and rail companies
What's the relationship between the Oregon-American lumber company, the Oregon Lumber Company, the Sumpter Valley Railroad (ISBN 9780738571256), the Oregon and California Railroad, the Oregon Central Railroad, and maybe even the Oregon Short Line Railroad? Page 3 seems to discuss it a bit, but .. I'm confused, I don't deal with ambiguity well. This article provides some color but is confusing (to me at least). tedder (talk) 00:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Random snippet, incredibly unreliable source that I've spent time evicting from Wikipedia. tedder (talk) 00:38, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * (ec) Off the top of my head, what I've figured out so far is that OLC is David Eccles' and O-ALC is David Eccles' children's company. I don't think the others are connected, though those RRs got sold and merged and bought out all the time. Check my sandbox for my first pass at untangling the mess, especially the el to a Google Books scan that I think has the entire, and yes, confusing, history. Warning: It's a bad scan and the edges of the pages are cut off... Katr67 (talk) 00:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Watching that page now. Looks like the Utah-Idaho Sugar Company was in some deep antitrust/price-fixing issues. Shame they don't have an article- they're obviously related to the Oregon interests. tedder (talk) 00:49, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I got ahead of myself. Yes SVR is an Eccles company. So if that online Utah site is bad, the site it copyvios is OK, isn't it? Yeah it's funny--there seems to be a concerted effort to have good coverage of Mormon topics on the wiki, but maybe they've whitewashed things a bit. One article pipes U & I as a redir to Amalgamated, but I'm not sure that's accurate. Katr67 (talk) 02:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Good to see the real source instead of the onlineutah one. I couldn't find the real source elsewhere, even though I knew it wasn't original to a real estate site. Many mormon articles are .. optimistic. There's decent coverage of non-negative things. Even minor things like pornstars who are notable residents of cities tend to get zapped. tedder (talk) 03:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Onto another topic. Books I have on order (the first one has arrived, haven't picked it up). tedder (talk) 03:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The roles of the railroad in the development of the Grande Ronde Valley. (thesis)
 * Portland's compromise : the Colored School, 1867-1872
 * Beet sugar in the West a history of the Utah-Idaho Sugar Company, 1891-1966
 * Number three sounds like scintillating bedtime reading... Katr67 (talk) 03:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It was made into a movie- Fast Times at the Sugar Beet Mill. tedder (talk) 03:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Just came across this chapter and thought it might be useful. Didn't actually read it though as I am looking for something else. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:53, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Holy cow! Who's who in railroads. I'm really deep into a tangential topic with lots of good drama and intrigue, the Utah-Idaho Sugar Company. My draft has some holes, but this source is very reliable and meaty. tedder (talk) 08:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I love this: "These men were all well known in Oregon at that day and their names as incorporators gave an air of responsibility to the enterprise that was regarded by many as an augury of success. But many of them, though possessing much knowledge of frontier life and good talent for the ordinary business of the country in that day, had not even a faint idea of the expense or difficulty of building railroads." (emphasis mine) Katr67 (talk) 17:27, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm impressed that you're digging into this stuff. Those late 1800s railroads seem to be pretty much equivalent to the financial services companies of today: into everything, from politics to timber to land-grabbery to all sorts of shady business. There have been several articles I've tried to expand around the Oregon & California Railroad and Oregon Land Fraud Scandal where my eyes just glaze over and it's really hard to figure out what really happened. When will the Oregon Encyclopedia take it on and clear it all up for me??? --Esprqii (talk) 22:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Have you seen those Pete Frame "family tree" style charts of rock bands? I've been wishing someone would draw up something like that for all the railroads and their spawn. Katr67 (talk) 22:30, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * When working on my current little project, the UISC article, I've been amazed at the number of company names and trying to determine if they are related, are unrelated, happened to have the same people as directors but aren't related, and all of that. But then I remember that 1880-1920 was the era of the robber baron, so the vertical and horizontal integration was not only strong but as so commonplace that it either wasn't known or wasn't worth wasting print on. And curse Katr for pointing me at the 'Main Street' book that caused me to find Nibley that caused me to unearth the UISC morass! (or is that 'UISC molasses'?) tedder (talk) 22:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Could be worse. Katr67 (talk) 22:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh, based on a fun little piece of creative writing I uncovered today, I'd say just write what you think should have happened. That's close enough for Aunt Betty. --Esprqii (talk) 23:00, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I meant to tie it in to another recent topic we had fun with: Nibley also begat Amalgamated Sugar, which begat White Satin Sugar, which begat what eventually became this landmark.--Esprqii (talk) 23:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Aha, that's why White Satin is familiar. But.. Nibley was with Amalgamated? He was involved (and indicted) based on U-I, which was Amalgamated's competitor. (PS- went and read Amalgamated Sugar, and yeah, he founded it. So my mind is bending about his large regional sugar monopoly, and how it touches not just Nibley, Oregon but also PDX.) tedder (talk) 23:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's all part of a conspiracy of Illuminati-like proportions... Katr67 (talk) 23:24, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe Nibley *is* sugar. tedder (talk) 23:26, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Sweet niblets!
I was going to make a Jolly Green Giant/corn niblets reference, but I got a little sidetracked to learn why sweet niblets redirects where it does. --Esprqii (talk) 23:33, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Here you go. Did I know it, or did I have to google? tedder (talk) 23:39, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I tracked it down before posting my note. I was afraid it was some pervy redirect. I'll have to try out the expression with someone at home who is in the demographic and see if I get a response. --Esprqii (talk) 23:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sweet fancy Moses, I'll have to add that to my repertoire. Katr67 (talk) 23:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Counties in school infoboxes
Per this, I added the county back, as well as cites to the necessary bits. Ideally, the county information would be moved out of the address and put as a regular field (similar to how the school district is shown). But since schools are tied to a city and a region, it makes sense (to me) to include the county- especially since the list dices them by county. Context is here. tedder (talk) 08:04, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree the county info should be in there somewhere, but it sure looks like hell mixed in with the address like that. Bleh. Is there a way to put it into a separate field with a blank parameter or something? Katr67 (talk) 09:12, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a few freetext params, but the real thing would be to BEBOLD and just do it. I'm a wimp when it comes to big templates, though. tedder (talk) 17:10, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

re: Latter-day Saint links
-- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 15:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Great Magnet at work
Whaddya know, I passed the Portland office of Amalgamated Sugar Company this morning. Didn't even know there was one. Actually, maybe I did, I think I've seen the silo from Lombard. Hmm. tedder (talk) 19:21, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's cool. But not much to look at, is it? Looks like the slightly googie sign says "White Satin" on it? Perhaps in neon? Surprisingly bland for the instigators of the Made in Oregon sign. Katr67 (talk) 19:30, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think it's just a translucent plexi sign. Though once I looked at it from the sat view, I think the silo might say something about Amalgamated. Just trolled through Amalgamated's website, it's really aimed at their growers- but every page has a very Orwellian "write your legislator" link at the bottom. tedder (talk) 19:33, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, they update those Google maps a lot...this is you, isn't it? --Esprqii (talk) 19:53, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, I thought that too. Katr67 (talk) 19:57, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No way is that me! I ride ATGATT. Bare legs? Cringe. tedder (talk) 20:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Good to hear. Sorry, I thought I recognized your translucent Google mudflaps. --Esprqii (talk) 20:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Stephen Morse
Hi,

I'll rewrite the page citing an obit. The man was my friend, I worked with him for 12 years. He really is dead, I'm sad to say!

Richard Weil (talk) 04:31, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry for your loss. Unfortunately I had to revert, we can't have things like people's deaths uncited, also you seem to have a record of not sourcing info, which is a problem. If you want folks to assume good faith, please cite your sources! Anyway, I did some checking and saw the notice on his Myspace page but that won't do for a source. I'm sure he was a fine person, but I'm also still not convinced he's notable (he wrote the article himself) so if you could find anything supporting his notability that he didn't write himself, that would be great. Although Wikipedia is not a memorial, I'll hold off for a decent interval before I take any further action. It was a coincidence that I happened to add the prod tag when I did. Take care, Katr67 (talk) 04:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

fun and profit with sugar
Just a heads-up, hoping you can watchlist those and step in. I have an awkward way of wording things.. for instance, look at the sentence about "American Beet Sugar Construction Company". tedder (talk) 05:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Added little bits to Amalgamated Sugar Company
 * I assume you saw this bit at La Grande? Need to write about that factory, but I'm not there yet.
 * Adding to User:Tedder/Utah-Idaho Sugar Company
 * Notes at new sandbox, User:Tedder/sugarbeet
 * More, though this is about Nyssa more than sugar- there was a German POW camp at Nyssa (during WW2, obviously). I have one article from jstor about it, nothing more. Interesting search about it. tedder (talk) 17:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah I've run across the history of POWs working around Nyssa before. I think when I was looking for info about Camp White or Camp Adair. Here are some pics (first hit on your search). Katr67 (talk) 18:20, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Apropos of nothing, The Sugar Beets are a popular Eugene band. I own a bumper sticker that says "The Sugar Beets Saved My Life". Make of that what you will. Katr67 (talk) 19:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I was about to start in with a quick copyedit of ASCo., but I got confused with the first sentence in the history section. So before there was Amalgamated, there was Utah SC, etc., correct? Could clarify that a bit? Then I can work on the wording. Katr67 (talk) 19:41, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't work on it much yet. I'm only through to 1904 and in Idaho, haven't really gotten to the meat of Amalgamated yet. I think it'll be more clear when I finish processing the books and making the connections. tedder (talk) 21:21, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Locales, AKA places that don't exist
Circular file. Also, when are you going to write about Timbuktu, Oregon, and is it even in OGN? If there was enough info it could make for some good DYK hooks. Aboutmovies (talk) 08:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * We really need to tell USGS to stop citing Wikipeda. What is up with them posting nicknames as "variant names"?! I want to get "So-Lame" listed as a variant of "Salem". The Chamber of Commerce would love that.
 * Yeah, Timbuktu, Hells Half Acre (area, twice!), Hell for Slim Draw (valley), and my favorite, Heck and Gone (locale). Yes, apparently Timbuktu is in the latest OGN. Google Books won't give me a preview though. (It would look a little suspicious if I carried OGN to work with me every day.) Katr67 (talk) 18:16, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

high on the Hogg
Maybe he was a vampire? No one is really sure how he got out. I think there was some kind of general amnesty after the war and lots of folks got out. I found one site that described it but it had that--hmm, not-so-reliable feeling. I'll see if I can track it down more. --Esprqii (talk) 03:46, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad we don't have a product for that... Katr67 (talk) 04:39, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Good thing you stopped watching TV in the 80s. Things haven't gotten any better.
 * I think I might have a lead to my box of Zombie Pod Pete's OHQs. Meanwhile, did you find this one yet? --Esprqii (talk) 04:52, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Great Fiasco"--awesome. Here's the new SF of the West today. Katr67 (talk) 05:47, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Aw, poor Yaquina. Is it Yaquina or Yaquina City? I've seen both. Anyway, I got to crack open my first hard-copy OHQ and found some well-sourced Hogg bio info that fills in some gaps. Those OHQ guys really know how to cite stuff. --Esprqii (talk) 06:12, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Can one of you translate for those of us in diapers when the mostly harmless mountain blew its lid? tedder (talk) 05:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I have a TV now. My dad needed an excuse to buy a new digital. I still have tin foil on the antennas though. I only look at it for the OPB...
 * Sigh. OK tedder, you asked for it. The reference is to that "Not So Fresh Feeling". Note that this is cringe-worthy no matter what your gender... Did SNL do a send-up of this? They must have. Katr67 (talk) 05:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There was another one that doesn't seem to be on YouTube that specifically used the phrase "not-so-fresh feeling." Wow, that was a meme before we knew what a meme was! SNL did a parody called "Feminine Secret" that was pretty funny. Of course, they don't let their vids on YouTube and the NBC website is unsearchable so I can't find it. Oh well. --Esprqii (talk) 05:55, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I was trying to follow the Hogg reference to TV. I get the "not so fresh", though probably only from spoofs, not the real thing. Yeah, SNL's failure to stay in the pop zeitgeist is probably directly traced to their draconian copyvio hunting team. (I imagine a copyvio hunting team looks a bit different than the crew of the Pequod) tedder (talk) 07:01, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oooohhh, you want Hogg on TV? --Esprqii (talk) 07:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * (shudder). Boss Hogg is the acting equivalent of Taco Bell food. tedder (talk) 07:09, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * (ec) Oh noooo. Poor Bo! Katr67 (talk) 07:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

So in conclusion, if we find a site that gives us that oogie "not so reliable feeling", there should be a product that would let us cleanse it of dubious info so we can use it as a citation. Katr67 (talk) 07:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought that's what 'mental floss' was for? That, and eradicating earworms. tedder (talk) 07:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh. After a good mental flossing, I'm with Tedder -- still can't figger out how Hogg came up to begin with. My eavesdropping skills must be slipping. But being as we're a-proposing of nothingness, Boss Hog sure is a good band… -Pete (talk) 07:52, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry for the PG-13 link. I meant to link it for the OPB! (For another conversational left turn, here in SF, I just got my tinfoil hooked up, and learned that just about all the TV is in Chinese. The dollar must be slipping faster than I thought!) -Pete (talk) 07:54, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Our latest convergence has been with Oregon railroads, specifically the Oregon Pacific Railroad to Yaquina, built by Thomas Egenton Hogg. It is sort of a perfect convergence of railroads, Oregon locales that no longer exist, and old dead guys that appealed to all of us. And, I expect Aboutmovies will come by soon enough to add all the OSU buildings built by Hogg's partner Wallis Nash. --Esprqii (talk) 08:02, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Only here to mention some sources for Hogg. I added what little new info there was from the Dict. of Oregon History and "corrected" the date of death. Hard to know which is actually correct. Anyway, the sources the dictionary used are as follows:
 * Harvey Scott, History of the Oregon Country (1924), Vol. 4 p. 328-41
 * OGN (1953 version), pp. 302 & 535
 * OHQ, Vol XVI pp. 228-45
 * Oregonian Sunday Magazine, 6/6/1937, p. 9
 * R. V. Mills, Railroads Down the Valleys, pp. 32-70
 * S. Holbrook, The Story of American Railroads, p. 273
 * Hope there is some new info in there for you. And as to Nash, I don't know anything about the OSU buildings and him. Though to keep the TV theme going, maybe the guy is related to Nash Bridges. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:09, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Just emailed you (Esprqii) one of those sources. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:18, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all that. Regarding the date of death, the OHQ article I found in Pete's box (LXXXIV #3) has a pretty convincing account of the researcher finding the actual death certificate and Philadelphia Inquirer obit from 1898; he acknowledges Corning's 1896 date but humbly suggests it is wrong.
 * Nash was Hogg's partner in the OPRR, and he was also pretty important in building up the OSU campus. I dunno, he sounded like one of those handle-bar mustachioed guys you like to write up. There was a link to some good info about him in the Hogg article, here.
 * --Esprqii (talk) 09:25, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1898 it is then. Corning's book is often off on things like that, where eights become sixes, threes become eights, etc. My guess is the WPA writers couldn't make out the dates that well on some sources, or couldn't afford glasses during the Depression. But at least Corning lists his sources so its easy to check them out. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:31, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * ...or maybe those WPA writers were just some of Kurt Schrader's veteran constituents. And now that I've tied it all together for the day, good night all! --Esprqii (talk) 09:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Elk City
The hard copy OHQ shows a map of the planned route of the OPRR with its terminus at Elk City on Yaquina Bay, rather than Yaquina. Thought that was interesting. There's not a ton of other interesting detail on the map, which shows the planned route from Elk City to Corvallis, then nestling through dales along the Santiam, Crooked, and Malheur Rivers, with some vague dotted lines to Boise and beyond. Anyway, I can scan you a copy if you're interested. --Esprqii (talk) 00:20, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I wonder if it moved (i.e. the p.o. moved), because it's not on the bay anymore. So sure, scan away! I'd be curious to see it. I probably won't get around to Elk City right away, but you never know. Mysterious beastie, this OPRR... Katr67 (talk) 00:40, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Could be. It seems to be technically on the bay, and I read somewhere that EC was the steamboat port and also the terminus for the wagon road from Corvallis. Either that or it was an early map and they were lazy and just used existing termina before they decided to crush the hopes of the Seal Rockers. I'll send you a scan when I get a chance. --Esprqii (talk) 00:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Oregon COTW v 3.0.2010ish
Greetings WikiProject Oregon team member. Time for the first new Collaboration Of The Week in 2010. Thank you to those who worked on Bill Schonely and archiving talk pages. For this week, we have Concordia University and the Berry Botanic Garden. Hopefully we can mine the garden’s website before it closes down. As always, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Cheers and stuff. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

new user pucguy gets back to katr
Context: Oregon Public Utility Commission

Thanks for the message. As I am sure you have deduced I am totally new to this, whereas you are obviously a seasoned user.

I was tasked with creating a page for the Commission and was surprised to find it already existed. It was my intention to just add more content not step on anyone's toes. I have provided a photo of the PUC building in the Commons page called “PUC building 2” that could be used to replace the poor quality logo.

I presume I can create my own page as it appears other Commissions have done, however, I would prefer not to.

I am finding all of the posting protocols a tad confusing. I am not surprised that Wiki users are steadily declining as documented in recent news articles. I will continue to try and figure all this stuff out.

I am curious who created the page, is this part of the Oregon portal project? BY the way, KATR was the first radio station I worked for in Eugene many moons ago.

Pucguy (talk) 18:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


 * My apologies--I just wrote you a detailed reply and when I tried to preview it, Wikipedia hiccuped. The browser I'm using doesn't remember unsaved info. Grrr. I'll have to get back to you later. Thanks for getting in touch. Katr67 (talk) 18:54, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, now I have had time to recall what I wrote previously. Again, thanks for getting in touch.

First, as you may have gathered from the edit summaries and my changes—it is not “your own page” nor is it the commission’s page. Please read about article ownership and also the business FAQ if you haven’t already. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so that means the articles can’t use the first person plural and Wikipedia is also not to be used as a mirror site for your agency. What it can do is present factual information about the commission.

As far as I know, other commissions and agencies have not started articles on themselves. Actually, many of the members of WikiProject Oregon have an interest in government and politics, as well as open access to information, and want to make sure these topics get covered. Most of the state agency articles were created by a politically minded priest! I started an article on Hillcrest Youth Correctional Facility because I have a thing for the history of institutions. You can check the page history of any article to see who has created and contributed to it.

Some interns or employees have attempted to work on their agency’s Wikipedia articles. This is the general pattern I see: The intern or employee is given the task of improving the agency’s Wikpedia article. The person then copies and pastes info over the existing article directly from the agency’s Oregon.gov website, which destroys the existing formatting, interwiki links, and often the article’s neutral point-of-view, sometimes turning it into an advertisement for the agency. The changes get reverted, and sometimes for a day or two, discussion and collaboration takes place on the article’s talk page. At this point, the employee, who I think assumed s/he could whip out an article in half a day and be done with it, disappears, never to be heard from again. Another thing I’ve seen is people trying to remove negative information about the agency. If the negative information (for example the controversial ouster of a director) is neutrally worded and fully cited using reliable sources, and a notable part of the history of the agency, then it belongs in the article.

It’s true there are a lot of protocols, and I’m sorry if you find the place confusing. If we didn’t have policies and guidelines, the place would fill up with “naughty” words, external links and advertisements and be rendered completely useless as an encyclopedia in a very short time. I’m curious which article you’ve read about the downfall of Wikipedia. I’d say it’s more of a success than a failure. Please try to understand what we are doing here before you are too hasty in your assessment of our process—it’s certainly not as bad as the OARs! Oregon Wikipedia editors in particular have a reputation for quality work, so if you stick with us, you should see good results.

Anyway, the way to avoid stepping on toes is to: make sure this isn’t a role account—that is, not one that everyone in your office uses to edit Wikipedia, not insert “we” and “our” into the article about your agency, rewrite anything that comes from your website in your own words and in a neutral manner—this avoids copyright violation, as although it’s likely OK with the agency to reuse the content, dealing with permissions is a hassle, and besides, like I said, Wikipedia is not to be used as a mirror site for the agency—if the content is exactly the same, what is the point? Finally, if you’re unsure about the changes you want to make, they can be “workshopped” on the article’s talk page. And be patient, the Wikipedia process is a lot slower than what you might be used to.

It happens that Wikimedia’s public outreach officer is also a member of WikiProject Oregon and a politico, and he watches this page, so he may be able to offer some assistance. If you want to get started working on the OPUC page, we can take the discussion over there: Talk:Oregon Public Utility Commission. I checked briefly and the current info in the article that I have tagged for citations seemed well-paraphrased from the agency website, so the only thing we need is to add some references, which we can help you with. If you’re not too discouraged from everything I wrote above, let us know what else you would like to see there. I'll go take a look for that image, we could probably put it and the logo into a nifty "infobox".

Yes, my nickname comes indirectly from KATR’s previous incarnation as a country music station in Eugene! Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 18:55, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

the competition
Friday Funnies: oh, why have I not enjoyed the wonder that is Conservapedia ("The Trustworthy Encyclopedia") before this? Who knew all that about conifer/fir/fur trees before??? --Esprqii (talk) 00:15, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, the Douglas-fir trapping industry that made this state great! I just polled one liberal and one atheist and they both eat animals. So much for that gross generalization! But it's OK to eat fish 'cos they don't have any feelings. Katr67 (talk) 00:38, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * What?! There's a picture of Laura Bush on Conservapedia? Shocking tedder (talk) 01:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

City of Klamath Falls page....
I did not change the citation because the population estimate is from the PSU population survey and that is what is referenced in the current citation. Please change the area and density back to what I changed them to. I am a City planner and I changed it after revising the calculations in my GIS system at work. Reverting the data is not helping the cause as the updated information is all correct and verified.

Klamath Falls, Oregon

Thanks,

KOJR (talk) 06:47, 23 January 2010 (UTC)KOJR

Just Out, COTW does well in new decade
Howdy WikiProject Oregon folks, time again for the latest installment of As the Collaboration Of The Week Turns. Last week was one of the more successful COTWs in recent memory as we really worked hard as a community to improve Concordia University and Berry Botanic Garden. Both are now at least C class articles and nicely illustrated (thanks to Tedder, Finetooth, and Ipoellet). Plus it really was a group effort as we had five different WPORE editors work on the garden and ditto with the school, with some overlap between the two.

Anyway, this week, we have by request the completely unrelated Just Out and Terrell Brandon. As always, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. This message paid for by Fooians against COTW killing taxes. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:26, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to add external link to Kitesurfing locations
Context: I once Dabbed Hood River on that page.

Hi. You may wish to participate in the proposal to add an external link to this article Talk:Kitesurfing_locations, Regards Peter Campbell 01:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not at all interested, actually, but good for you in trying to get a lot of input. Katr67 (talk) 03:45, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Donald Macleay
Thanks. Your redlinks were the prompt. I've been collecting (mostly used) copies of books like MacColl's (and the Gaston book is all on-line), which is making it easier to find sources for these old dead guys. The image isn't terrific, and I can't think of a good hook for a DYK. Finetooth (talk) 21:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm a little biased but why not say something about how they named a town after him after he donated money for the school? The Forest Park bit is good too. Katr67 (talk) 23:05, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Excellent. I used your re-naming suggestion. I was just too brain-fried to think of anything, so I took a bike ride instead. When I got back, I saw your message. Finetooth (talk) 00:06, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Amalga, Utah
You should have seen the cute little book I got some history from. It was a 1951 book, basically written by "sister so-and-so" and "brother so-and-so", more about who got their minor boy scout ranks than anything serious, but it definitely filled it out nicely.

Sheesh, all of this is Oregon related. Almost. tedder (talk) 06:27, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia copy-paste guidelines, Wikipedia Plagiarism guidelines
Wikipedia Copy-paste Guidelines In 99.9% of cases, you may not copy-paste text from other sources into Wikipedia (short quotations aside), because it would violate copyright and/or constitute plagiarism. If you think your case is the rare exception, read on - but remember that even in the cases where copyright is not a problem, it is probably still better to write the article yourself in your own words, and just cite the source you want to copy from.

- '''From Wikipedia copy-paste guidelines '''

Wikipedia Plagiarism Guidelines
 * A credible encyclopedia must not silently present content copied from elsewhere as though it were original.
 * The silent inclusion of copied content may pose legal problems for readers who re-use Wikipedia content, even if the text is "public domain" in the United States, which governs Wikipedia. Whether or not something is copyright-free in some country depends on the laws of individual countries.

- '''From Wikipedia Plagiarism guidelines ''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.116.43.139 (talk • contribs) 17:18, February 3, 2010


 * Right, I know the general rules already pretty well, but thanks. Can you show me specific examples from whence the data you are claiming is a copyright violation was copied and pasted from? I'd be quite surprised that a bot would have been approved to paste copyrighted information into what I imagine is tens of thousands of articles. Besides which, wouldn't census data be free of copyright? Katr67 (talk) 17:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I get the feeling you might be trying to prove a point. Did something of yours get tagged as a copyright violation? Please note that per WP:POINT, "Discussion is the preferred means for articulating problems with policies or the way they are implemented. When one disagrees with an established policy or guideline, or with an interpretation of such, the temptation may arise to actively apply it in a way that is designed to prove it wrong. This may even entail an attempt to incite widespread opposition to a policy by satirically applying it on various pages." Also "Such tactics are highly disruptive and can lead to a block or ban." Do not disrupt Wikipedia to prove a point. Please use your words. Katr67 (talk) 17:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Scooped!
Uh-oh, something just got bumped to the top of your heap! --Esprqii (talk) 01:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I know! Curses, foiled again! Katr67 (talk) 01:44, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Could you give me some advice?
Hello, you posted on my talk page and offered to give me advice, so here I am asking for some.

I saw this list of resources: List of search engines

And I believe the page/site I created recently GetEducated.com belongs on that list. So my questions are

1) Is the proper thing for me to do suggest that it be added to this list on that list's discussion page? Or just go ahead and add it myself?

And

2) It doesn't fit under any of the current categories, as it is a search engine for information about online schools and degrees (provides cost information as well as independent ratings and reviews). Could you recommend a category?  And if I can think of an appropriate one, would I suggest that also on the discussion page?

I have COI, of course, but even without the job here I believe the site is a unique and valuable reference tool that really helps people.

Thank you for your time, -- Immaletufinish (talk) 19:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for getting in touch. When you have COI, it is always a good idea to make suggestions on the talk pages of articles. Although we are supposed to assume good faith, many editors, myself included, tend to be faster to revert changes made by editors with COI. Being willing to engage in discussion and abide by community consensus will take you far around here. I don't have time to look too closely at the page you created, so I don't know if it fits the criteria of a search engine, at least the way I understand the term, so it would be good to ask on the talk page. When I get a minute, I'm pretty good at figuring out categories (cats) so I'll take a look. With categories, feel free to add them yourself, though you know if they're not right other editors may remove them. Just a disclaimer, if I add cats to the article you created, that's not an endorsement of its notability or anything. Sometimes folks think if established editors edit something, it means we have an opinion about the article. Turns out, in my case, I'm more interested in grammar, format, usability, etc. Oh and give a quick read to WP:NOT--it may sound strange, but "unique", "valuable" and "helps people" are not criteria for inclusion in Wikipedia, instead a company needs to meet our notability guidelines. Since GetEducated.com has been used as a reference in several articles, it sounds like it might be notable. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 19:33, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

request autodeposit
Hi there, my social security number is 123-45-6789, my date of birth is April 1, 1950, and my bank account number is 5551212. Can you please make sure that all my money goes into my new account. Please initial in this box [___] when you complete the transaction. Love, Aunt Betty --Esprqii (talk) 18:51, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Just as soon as I update your W4 and talk to the VA, dear. Katr67 (talk) 20:38, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Twice doesn't make a trend, I guess, but I am trying to figure out how this happens. Google PERS, click the Wikipedia link, click "discussion" thinking you are going to talk to someone at PERS and then type your question? I dunno. Weird. Google didn't cover that in their Super Bowl ad. (Love the various parodies that are popping up.) --Esprqii (talk) 21:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Superbowl? What's that? Katr67 (talk) 21:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * A really awesome nighttime bird of prey, I believe?
 * I would've watched anyway of course, but I spent 8 years in NO (but never wore a bag on my head) so it was a nice feeling for those guys. --Esprqii (talk) 22:05, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I didn't watch the game, but I'm glad the Saints won. I used to root for them when I was kid because the "collect-'em-all" gumball machine helmet was cool, and because they were underdogs--even more so back then. My friend went through Katrina and still lives there, and though he cares less about sports than even I do, I'm sure he wouldn't pass up the chance for a celebratory round of cocktails...or three. Katr67 (talk) 23:06, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Ash Valley
I'm doing this for a school project, had no interest in this at all, only doing it for the grade. Had no Idea about the rules. I am the rescource for the information as I lived their from the third grade on until the early 1990's. I did post a article from the Eugene Registar Guard supporting my information about the residents not getting along well. Live and Learn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimmyz1364 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome to Wikipedia and sorry if you feel bitten by my (and others') reversions and thanks for contacting me. We do have a lot of rules here, but there are also a lot of people who can help you. Note that if your information "disappears" it is a good idea to check the page history to read the edit summaries and see what is going on. Simply restoring the disputed material can be seen as edit warring--it is better to discuss your edits on the article's talk page at that point. I will note there was a particular problem with your edits to Loon Lake (Oregon), as that info was copied and pasted from another website.
 * So as far as Ash Valley, when writing a Wikipedia article, there are a couple things you have to bear in mind besides citations, first though I'm absolutely sure that what you know about the place from personal observation is true, we call that original research and it is not allowed. I know that might seem silly. Because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, we only use secondary sources, in other words, magazines, newspapers, etc. Next, you have to think about what kind of information is included in an encyclopedia article. Residents not getting along may not fit into an encyclopedia unless it has been an ongoing problem and has been remarked upon in reliable sources over a span of time. There are contentious issues in every community. I got the impresssion (and I did look at your newspaper source) that the school issue was a one-time thing. Why don't we continue the discussion about Ash on the article's talk page and we can decide what should be included?
 * So is your whole class working on a Wikipedia project, and if so does your teacher have an account? We have some resources for teachers and students using Wikipedia as a class project that I can link to to help you out. P.S. Don't forget to sign your posts with four tildes: ~ . And click on the blue links in this message to learn more. Katr67 (talk) 03:58, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

DYK help

 * Template talk:Did you know

Can you suggest a better DYK item for Amalgamated? At the very least, can you clean up the suggestion I gave? ("in..in") tedder (talk) 20:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I was wondering if you were going for a DYK. Expand it much? I think you picked a good topic. First thing I noticed is that I would take out "sugar" in "White Satin sugar brand" as redundant, but then I wonder--it reads like the brand is doing the polluting and not the company. That doesn't seem accurate.


 * How about "... that Amalgamated Sugar Company, who marketed their White Satin brand as "Oregon's Own and Only Sugar", was the second-largest polluter of sulfur dioxides in Oregon in 1995?" You can fiddle with whether a company is an "it" or a "them" (alternatively: "that marketed its White Satin brand"). Personification of the company makes it seem more culpable (i.e. evil) to me. You may or may not want that effect. Oh and link the second instance of "Oregon" instead of the first. Katr67 (talk) 21:32, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * P.S. The "in...in" construction doesn't stand out to me and I usually notice redundancy. If you wanted to recast the sentence: "...was Oregon's second-largest polluter of sulfur dioxides in 1995?" Which then puts two "Oregon's" in close proximity which normally would be bad, but wording it that way, it becomes something of a cruel commentary on their marketing slogan. I like it. But then I'm something of an anti-corporate tree hugger. YMMV. Katr67 (talk) 21:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I got a book on Amalgamated's history, so I decided to plow through it. Wasn't going for a DYK, but no complaints about it either. I agree, I didn't see the "brand" as polluting when I wrote it. Here are the alts I'm pasting in right now:
 * ... that Amalgamated Sugar Company White Satin brand, marketed as "Oregon's Own and Only Sugar", was the state's second-largest polluter of sulfur dioxides in 1995?
 * ... that Amalgamated Sugar Company, the second-largest polluter of sulfur dioxides in Oregon in 1995, marketed its White Satin sugar as "Oregon's Own and Only Sugar"?
 * And I agree, the DYK hooks are pleasant because they have a little bit of a knife-twist to them. tedder (talk) 21:43, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Chip Esten
The three revert rule did cross my mind, but I am not the only one reverting. Tedder is also reverting and you should warn him too. Being an admin should not exempt him from the three revert rule. Mr. C.C. (talk) 19:07, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you read what I wrote, I warned both of you. He is at least giving a solid, policy-based reason for his reversions, you are simply reverting without comment. Katr67 (talk) 19:12, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi Katr, I'd just like to say thanks for reverting the vandalism on my talk page.--Henry talk  23:36, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem. Brave of you to venture into Husky territory. Though I'll never get the whole "my stadium is louder than your stadium" thing. Katr67 (talk) 23:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Astoria Regional Airport
Leave my Astoria Regional Airport edit alone. That is a completely legitimate addition to that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael.tofte (talk • contribs) 00:32 13 February 2010
 * Hi, thanks for contacting me. Just a gentle reminder that telling someone to "leave my edits alone" goes against the spirit of Wikipedia. You will note that in edit mode, below the edit summary box it says: "If you do not want your writing to be edited, used, and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." So please, when interacting with your fellow Wikipedians, do be at bit more civil and assume good faith. Now, generally, encyclopedias do not include airline schedules, as this goes beyond the scope of what an encyclopedia is for, and also, since schedules tend to change it is difficult to keep such information up to date. I suspect you may have a conflict of interest in this matter? Wikipedia is also not to be used to promote a business. If you can show me the guideline that says adding airline schedules to articles is an acceptable practice, I'll certainly reconsider. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 00:55, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Katr, I think this has been resolved by adopting a format used in other airport articles which includes Airlines and destinations, but not flight times and specific schedules. This seems to be a reasonable level of detail although not all airport articles are consistent about it. Unless you have an objection I think we can go with that. Sound ok to you? Doc  Tropics  01:05, 13 February 2010 (UTC


 * It looks great to me! Thanks to everyone for the help! --Michael.tofte (talk) 03:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I accept your apology. ;) Katr67 (talk) 20:19, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for DYK hook
Donald Macleay got a DYK on Feb. 13 with the hook you suggested. Finetooth (talk) 04:43, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Recent improvement of the entry for KSKQ-LP
Hi Katr: Thanks for noticing my creation of the article for KSKQ-LP. I could not be more neutral, since I am an outsider from Manitoba, Canada, and have only traveled through the area of Ashland, OR once in my life (47 years ago, I might add). So why you would say that this article is not neutral, I can't figure out. However, if it helps I will try to be even more neutral than I am already, without becoming Swiss or Swedish in the process. Thanks for trolling along the Wikipedia highway. Skol fir (talk) 22:03, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for asking. It's not really that bad, promotion-wise, it just needs some wordsmithing here and there. The copied and pasted info is especially like an advertisement, but phrasing like "fills a unique niche" and "a true community-building project" also come across to me as marketing jargon or "come join us". And because of most of the article is unsourced, I assumed you might have some COI/personal knowledge--the wording is ever-so-slightly promotional or at least inappropriately enthusiastic (!). For example, the enumeration of volunteers and supporters reads to me like "See, it's notable--lots of people think so!" That may not have been your intention at all, but volunteers and members are characteristic of all non-commercial stations and I don't know if it needs to be mentioned. If you could rewrite the part that is copied and pasted from the station's website (and I note you copy-pasted some info into the Ashland, Oregon article--please don't do that), and perhaps find some reliable third-party sources (I don't even know if low-power stations are notable and refs will help), I can take it from there to show you what I mean.


 * The Olympics broadcast last night featured the polar bears in Churchill, which was charming, but I'm sure there's much more to Manitoba than that. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 22:30, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, Manitoba is a rich province, in culture, agriculture, horticulture, you name it. :)
 * BTW, I just edited the article for KSKQ-LP to avoid sounding like an ad, since that was not my intention in the first place. Maybe you could now take out the "Advert" template, since I believe I have satisfied your requirements. Please see the discussion at Talk:KSKQ-LP for further information.
 * Also, on the "copy-paste" in the Ashland, Oregon article, it was actually a quote from the Jackson County Libraries site, which I also referenced, because they said it in better words than I could come up with. So, if that is "copy-paste", then I apologize. I agree with you that Public Library is not under Education persay, but it is educational! :)
 * Skol fir (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

writer for you
Investigate for notability? Caroline B Miller tedder (talk) 17:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I saw that. Autobio/promo? Needs a page move. I have a noon deadline, I'll check later, Katr67 (talk) 18:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, definitely needs moving. Local writers to me are like sporting bios to both of us- I just can't handle them properly. Enjoy your noon deadline. I was driving to the airport at 0330 to come back home, so I'm not doing the best either! tedder (talk) 18:33, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Sterlingville, Oregon, et. al.
Good catch on the source of his images! I hadn't noticed that. All I saw was the commercial nature of the spam links. I think uploading the public domain images or linking directly to the Library of Congress page, rather than to a commercially-oriented site, is a great idea. I don't have a watchlist, but I do occasionally (days or weeks later) review my previous edits to see what has happened since I last edited the articles. Hopefully I'll see some edits from you on those articles when I next check them. Take care, and happy editing! 152.16.16.75 (talk) 10:24, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessmnet of Willamette University College of Law
I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the  GA  Sweeps  process. I have found some concerns which  you can see at Talk:Willamette University College of Law/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst  these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:19, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you have a chance, could you proof read/copy edit the article. I've addressed the other issues. Thanks. Aboutmovies (talk) 10:34, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I hope it passes. Katr67 (talk) 16:48, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

fYI
User:Katr67/Aloha Trailer Company--Scott Mac (Doc) 20:28, 20 February 2010 (UTC)


 * More incidental mentions:, ,  but nothing of real substance yet.  One odd thing I ran across concerned the name Ralph W. Scheidt - the board chairman listed in the SEC filing for Aloha.  Eleven days prior to that, his name was listed as board chairman for Swan Industries, using the same address as that used for Aloha (730 Morgan Building, Portland, Ore.).  Unfortunately, every attempt I've made to track down more information on him has lead down false trails.  152.16.16.75 (talk) 02:02, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

KIP or KIPLAND?
ur right about kip or kipland! i ve deleted the section .. keep up the good work!! 21:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mydreamistofly (talk • contribs)

Oregon COTW and randomness
Greetings fellow WikiProject Oregon member, it is once again time for the Collaboration of the Week (yes, I know they are not actually every week anymore). Thank you to those who helped out the last few weeks improving Terrell Brandon, Just Out, 75th Oregon Legislative Assembly, and all the unreferenced BLPs. This week we have by request Oregon Coast Aquarium and Arvydas Sabonis (maybe the Blazers can sign him as I think he's healthy). Both need more sourcing. As always, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. And remember folks, the only thing we have to fear is death and taxes, unless of course the dingo ate your baby, at which point you may feel the need, the for speed to get away from said dingos, which in turn can lead to a failure to communicate due to the dynamics of sound waves, though at some point hopefully we can all just get along. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:07, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Visual edition of the Oregon COTW featuring the Glass Palace
Hello WikiProject Oregon member, time for a new edition of the Collaboration of the Week. Thank you to those who helped out the last few weeks improving Oregon Coast Aquarium and Arvydas Sabonis. Also thank you to those few of you helped with the attempt to celebrate Women's History Month with Barbara Roberts and Ursula K. Le Guin.

This week we have by request the Memorial Coliseum that has been in the news a lot lately, and then one of the more important political figures in our state's history, Douglas McKay. The MC needs some ref work and EL work, and McKay really needs a lot more sourcing. As always, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Aboutmovies (talk) 20:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Petition to recall Katr
I hear-bye propose Katr67 be recalled from her Wikibreak and ordered to resume writing about obscure small villages and hamlets. Please sign below:

I'm saying I may have had a little too much Zinfandel and it's just a teensy bit possible my -o-meter and WP:OWN-o-rama are slightly off. And yes, a hard town is ::heheheheheh:: good to find. Katr67 (talk) 05:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Recall - Aboutmovies (talk) 20:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose in a rare (perhaps unprecedented) playing of the "protective big brother" card. :-)  She'll come back when she comes back.  -- Finngall  talk  20:51, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Backing away this won't go well. It's either like poking a lion or like trying to push a string. tedder (talk) 22:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Redirect to support Katr as new Trail Blazers general manager to replace Kevin Pritchard -- Esprqii (talk) 22:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thtbbft. Katr67 (talk) 04:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I knew that would get you back...hope we didn't mess things up too badly around here. It's been tough, all those nestled dells going to seed. --Esprqii (talk) 05:07, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There's no place like home. There's no place like home. There's no place like... Please, Mr. Esprqii, this nestled dell on the lofty Eastern Oregon plain has met with an uncertain fate and needs your help desperately. ::cries:: The widows and orphans thank you in advance... Katr67 (talk) 05:20, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you saying it needs citations? It's not clear. I'm sorry, I'm having troubling getting past the name of the town without snickering. --Esprqii (talk) 05:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have thought that tipsy would hamper your abilities to write wikitext as eloquently as ever. I'm especially impressed by the unimpeded use of    !   It's nice to see my watchlist light up with a torrent of town tidying.  —EncMstr (talk) 05:52, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Tipsy torrent of town tidying! I blame the 20% off wine sale at the local Gross Out. Katr67 (talk) 06:00, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Oregon population number
Hi, Aboutmovies, Katr67 and Tedder, It's Ross Degenstein. List of cities in Oregon in 1970-2008 Today I edited in edit But, I cannot edit in any Oregon. Katr67 said no. Tedder blocked me 3 months ago. Ross Degenstein (talk) 96.3.201.230 (talk) 22:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

hooray, Katr's back!
Your back is fine. I think. Since you've left I've read through a couple of MacColl books and started doing quite a bit of bicycling (every other day, working on hillclimbing now). And you've already caused a LOL. Nice work. tedder (talk) 06:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure that edit was accurate. --Esprqii (talk) 18:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoa! Welcome to the darkside. We have cookies. Katr67 (talk) 06:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been signed up for the cookie ride for a few weeks now. See you there? It was actually the motivation that started this whole thing. tedder (talk) 06:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No kidding?! You're doing the Cookie? Yay! It's a swell ride. There's only one hill and often a tailwind on the return trip. And lots of Freds (the good kind)=Katr and her crappy bike and unfashionable non-bike shoes. I was actually thinking of blowing it off this year. This changes everything... Katr67 (talk) 06:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Uh oh. I'm riding a carbon fiber bike. Doh. Anyhow, we're technically the Candy Ass Llamas; my 'mentors' are RAO ultramarathon crazies (though they are out of shape, so I can almost keep up). See you for the cookies! tedder (talk) 06:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I know some of those nutty people. But forget bicycling...the CAL blog has kittens! I promise to drop you on the hill if you promise not to make fun of my steel-frame Bianchi. Hmm. I better start training some hills... Katr67 (talk) 07:37, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Bayocean, Oregon
Hi Katr,

Sorry about the tone of the Bayocean article. Probably like most folks, I have more experience with general edits then with writing articles from scratch. I just felt the location needed an article, even if it was just a rough start. Let me know if there is anything specific you would like me to tidy up. :) Buddy23Lee (talk) 17:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)