User:Ww2censor/Fair use stamps

More recent links to fair-use stamp discussions involving same editors

 * Postage stamps @ NFC December 2008
 * USPS template @ NFCR March 2014
 * USPS template @ MCQ March 2014
 * Policing as vandalism @ MCQ April 2014
 * Proposal: Split NFCC#8 into #8a and #8b @ NFC May 2014
 * RfC: Is stamp non-free content use explained by WP:NFCI Guideline #3? @ NFC June 2014
 * USPS image use @ NFC July 2016


 * 1st posts I can find on Philately project talk page April 2014
 * User search results

Non-free stamp use discussions

 * Administrators' noticeboard/Archive54 2006 discussion on stamp to be removed from most biographic articles
 * Administrators' noticeboard/Archive59
 * Administrators' noticeboard/Archive62
 * Administrators' noticeboard/Archive165
 * Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 40 - Dec 2008
 * Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 40 - Jan 2009
 * Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 43 - Oct 2009
 * Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 43 - Oct 2009
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philately/Archive 7 (2010) Displaying Images of U.S. Postage Issued after Jan. 1, 1978

2008

 * Files for deletion/2008 January 16 - 22 stamps
 * Files for deletion/2008 March 11 Iranian stamp File:Iran-stamp-Scott2335.jpg was kept
 * Files for deletion/2008 March 25 biographic use
 * Images and media for deletion/2009 January 1 not biographic use

2009

 * Files for deletion/2009 February 27
 * Files for deletion/2009 May 28
 * Files for deletion/2009 June 5 - included John Steinbeck discussion - 4 stamps
 * Files for deletion/2009 June 10 - 16 stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 June 11 - 20 stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 June 12 - including Crayola discussion - 18 stamp noms all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 June 13 - 7 stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 June 16 - 16 stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 June 18 - 1 stamp nom & deleted
 * Possibly unfree files/2009 June 16 - 2 Belgium stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 August 1 - 1 Jonas Salk stamp deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 October 6 - 28 stamp noms - 1 kept but image changed
 * Files for deletion/2009 October 7 - 12 stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 October 14 - 5 stamp noms - 1 kept File:NogginStamp.jpg
 * Files for deletion/2009 October 15 - 1 stamp nom & deleted
 * Files for deletion/2009 October 24 - 6 stamp noms & all deleted inc File:Carl A Larsen JASON Stamp.jpg & File:Moshe Smoira stamp.jpg
 * Files for deletion/2009 November 17 - 5 stamp noms & all deleted (1 not a stamp)

2010

 * Files for deletion/2010 March 6 - 7 stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2010 March 26 - 4 stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2010 April 8 - 4 stamp noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2010 April 9 - 5 stamp noms - 4 deleted, 1 no consensus
 * Files for deletion/2010 May 22 - 3 noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2010 May 28 - 4 deletion noms - 3 deleted, 1 relisted
 * Files for deletion/2010 June 6 - 1 relisted - No Consensus
 * Files for deletion/2010 July 4 - 2 noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2010 July 8 - 1 nom deleted
 * Files for deletion/2010 October 19 - 1 nom deleted
 * Possibly unfree files/2010 November 5 - 1 nom deleted
 * Possibly unfree files/2010 December 22 - 1 nom deleted

2011

 * Files for deletion/2011 January 3 - 7 noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2011 March 13 - 6 noms - all deleted
 * Possibly unfree files/2011 March 13 - 1 nom
 * Files for deletion/2011 March 15 - 1 nom - deleted
 * Files for deletion/2011 April 9 - 3 noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2011 April 18 - deleted
 * Files for deletion/2011 July 25‎ - 7 noms - all deleted
 * Possibly unfree files/2011 August 22 - 1 Indian stamp nom - deleted
 * Possibly unfree files/2011 August 26 - 1 Pakistan stamp nom - deleted
 * Files for deletion/2011 August 31 - 1 nom
 * Files for deletion/2011 September 2 - 2 noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2011 September 5 - 4 stamp noms - all deleted

2012

 * Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2012 January 23 - lots of noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2012 May 4‎ - 10 noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2012 May 30 - 5 noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2012 August 31 - 1 nom - deleted

2013

 * Files for deletion/2013 February 11 - 1 nom, deleted
 * Files for deletion/2013 March 10 - 2 noms - all deleted
 * Files for deletion/2013 June 23 - 1 nom, deleted
 * Files for deletion/2013 July 22 - 6 noms - all deleted

Analysis of Fair use stamp images
Each section below is for the different category pages

Section 1 - main category

 * There were 247 images listed in Category:Fair use stamp images on December 30, 2008

OK fair use

 * File:Scouts on stamps Detmold displaced persons camp.png in Scouting in displaced persons camps
 * File:Ireland48cstamp.jpg in Éire and Names of the Irish state
 * File:Israel Wallish doar Yehudah cover design 222295.jpg in Otte Wallish – good use
 * File:PlatypusOneShillingStampByEileenMayo.jpg in Eileen Mayo – good use

Marginal fair use

 * File:Sharjah-Stamp-1970-1-rl Rambler.jpg in AMC Cavalier (talks about incorrect image being used)
 * File:Stamp-autumn.gif used in Alma Duncan
 * 1) * In my opinion, this barely passes. – Quadell (talk) 20:41, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * File:Three Stamps 1963.jpg in Wu Zuoren
 * 1) * In my opinion, this barely passes. – Quadell (talk) 20:41, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * File:Toilers1.jpg in Guernsey Post - probably ok
 * 1) * In my opinion, this passes. – Quadell (talk) 20:41, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Questionable or improper licenced stamps

 * File:EBOccupStamps1.jpg
 * 1) *I have no idea if this temporary government under German jurisdiction had authorization to claim copyright on stamps, or what successor state's laws would apply, etc. This one is very difficult. Perhaps User:Lupo would have some insight? – Quadell (talk) 20:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Properly used fair use stamps in stamp articles

 * File:2006 country stamps (british postage stamps).jpg
 * File:2006 definitives (british postage stamps).jpg
 * File:Allende.Moneda.Cuba2605.jpeg
 * File:Austria J152.jpg
 * File:Austrian 5pon50Kr Levant.JPG
 * File:Brazil 389.jpg
 * File:Chile C36.jpg
 * File:Chile C50.jpg
 * File:Cover AN 1948 air.jpg
 * File:Cover Gabon 1965.jpg
 * File:Curacao C4.jpg
 * File:Exporta tomato.jpg
 * File:Fateh 5thAnniv 1970.jpg
 * File:Fateh napalmshalom.jpg
 * File:France 261.jpg
 * File:Frenchconsularstamp1948 10m.jpeg
 * File:GB Christmas Aerogram.jpg
 * File:GBIoMRegional7hpStamp.JPG
 * File:GBJerseyRegional2HalfStamp.JPG
 * File:GBPictorialRegionalStamps.JPG
 * File:Guillermo brown1.jpg 1 good use and 2 bad uses
 * File:Inauguration Jan 26 1950.jpg
 * File:Irl 1971gerl-set.jpg
 * File:Irl 1982 £5busaras.jpg
 * File:Irl 1989 sheridan.jpg
 * File:Israeli Minhelet Haam TA ovpt Historama 1948.jpg
 * File:Machind.jpg
 * File:Maltas20081.jpg Malta; there should be some PD stamps available
 * File:Marianneluquettvprf.jpg
 * File:Memin Pinguin 1.jpg really bad quality image
 * File:Mexico 738.jpg
 * File:Mexico 746.jpg
 * File:Mexico 765.jpg 2 good and 1 maybe good in Francisco Eppens Helguera (designer)
 * File:Mexico 778.jpg 1 good and 1 maybe good in Francisco Eppens Helguera (designer)
 * File:Mexico C100.jpg
 * File:Mexico C193.jpg
 * File:Mexico Minkus 1005.jpg
 * File:MilleniumStamp.png
 * File:Miniature sheet france.jpg
 * File:Netherlands 140.jpg
 * File:Netherlands 141.jpg
 * File:North Vietnam stamp of 1966.jpg
 * File:PNA Pope John Paul II stamp.jpg
 * File:PNA forgery Pope JPII stamp.jpg
 * File:PNA stamp 1000m dome 1994.jpg
 * File:Palestine For The Arabs Propaganda Label 1m.jpg
 * File:Palestine Gaza Jericho agreement stamp fils reissue.jpg
 * File:Portugal C2.jpg
 * File:Rabbi Bar-Ilan (Berlin) Israel stamp.jpg Proper use of Israel stamp that should be licence PD
 * File:SM0001.jpg
 * File:Scoseabirdstamp.jpg
 * File:South Vietnam stamp of 1971.jpg
 * File:Stamp AN 1941 15c.jpg
 * File:Stamp AN 1950 6c.jpg
 * File:Stamp AN 1958 15c.jpg
 * File:Stamp AN 1989 70c.jpg
 * File:Stamp AT 1968 2s arms.jpg
 * File:Stamp Abu 1967 40f-170px.jpg 1 good use and bad use in Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan
 * File:Stamp Austria 1945 1g AMG.jpg
 * File:Stamp Austria 1945 8g arms.jpg
 * File:Stamp BAT 1963 0.5p.jpg
 * File:Stamp DK 1940 35o.jpg
 * File:Stamp DK 1975 130o.jpg
 * File:Stamp DK 1983 200o.jpg
 * File:Stamp HU 1943 20f Xmas.jpg
 * File:Stamp IQ 1958 20f ovpt.jpg
 * File:Stamp IQ 1960 30f Army Day.jpg
 * File:Stamp IS 1948 25a-400px.jpg
 * File:Stamp Indoch Garnier-300px.jpg 1 good use and bad use in Francis Garnier
 * File:Stamp It GronchiRosa.jpg
 * File:Stamp It GronchiRosaError.jpg
 * File:Stamp Kuwait 1961 30f.jpg
 * File:Stamp Kuwait 1964 45f.jpg
 * File:Stamp Peru 1970 1.20s Xmas.jpg
 * File:Stamp TZ 1965 10c-120px.jpg
 * File:Stamp TZ 1965 1sh-500px.jpg
 * File:Stamp TZ 1980 5sh-500px.jpg
 * File:Stamp UK 1983 28p Xmas.jpg
 * File:Stamp irl 1972minisheet.jpg
 * File:Stamp irl 1997 £1goose.jpg 1 good use and I questionable use in Killian Mullarney (designer))
 * File:Stamp shapes.jpg
 * File:Stamp-Falkland Islands 1964 HMS Glasgow error.jpg
 * File:Stamps of Vietnam and French Indochina of 1940-1946.jpg
 * File:Switzerland 215.jpg
 * File:Turkey 607.jpg
 * File:Turkey 750.jpg
 * File:Vietnam - Bao Dai government - 30 piastres stamp of 1951.jpg
 * File:Vietnam miniature sheet of 2007.jpg

Non stamp images using Non-free stamp template

 * File:Tax Disc (1923).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1952).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1956).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1967).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1983).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1985).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1986).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1987).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1990).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1992).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1993).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1994).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1995).jpg
 * File:Tax Disc (1996).jpg

Section 2 - US category

 * There were 86 images listed in Category:Fair use images of United States postage on January 2, 2009

Marginal fair use

 * File:2006 USPS-AMBER Alert stamp.jpg used in AMBER Alert

Properly used fair use stamps in stamp articles

 * File:1610c.jpg
 * File:1743.jpg
 * File:3471A.jpg
 * File:Alice Paul stamp.gif
 * File:Block Nixon invert.jpg
 * File:Celebrate Century 1900 1998.jpg - resolution needs reducing - Keep as 1 non-free in article
 * File:Comic-strip-classics-series-1995.jpg
 * File:Kwanzaa.jpg 1 good use, 1 marginal use in Kwanzaa
 * File:Mohammed Zakariya postage stamp.jpg 1 good use, 1 marginal use in Mohammed Zakariya (designer)
 * File:STS-8 flight cover 8912 back.jpg
 * File:STS-8 flight cover 8912 front.jpg 1 good use, 1 possible good use in STS-8
 * File:Stamp 1996US hanukkah.png
 * File:Stamp US 1996 PNC big-700px.jpg - resolution needs reducing
 * File:Transportation coil, Canoe, plate 2.jpg
 * File:US 3766.jpg

Section 3 - Canada & India category

 * There were 29 images listed in Category:Non-free Canadian stamp images and Category:Non-free Indian stamp images combined on January 2, 2009

Properly used fair use stamps in stamp articles

 * File:2006 pstamp EIIR.jpg
 * File:2008 pstamp EIIR.jpg
 * File:Queenstamp.gif 2 good uses
 * File:Queenstamp2.jpg
 * File:Stamp CA 1967 8c.jpg
 * File:Stamp CA 1973 8c Xmas.jpg 2 good uses
 * File:Inauguration Jan 26 1950.jpg
 * File:Mahatma Gandhi 10 Rupees.jpg
 * File:Satrunjaya 1949.jpg

Detailed rationales and disucssions were used on
File talk:LgstPlant39 sgl BGv2.jpg <!--Rationale discussion from File talk:LgstPlant39 sgl BGv2.jpg May 2009

Deletion request
I don't understand why the deletion tag was placed. The USPS clearly permits display of stamps with the price crossed out and USPS copyright displayed. This is exactly what the USPS lists as acceptable use in its own guidelines. The fair use rationale already posted, while unnecessary (strictly speaking) under USPS guidelines, is also sufficient. - Atarr (talk) 16:01, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually that is not quite right. See: United States Postal Service and Stamps of the United States. The fair use rational fails #1 because the existence of the stamp can be made by prose alone and the image is not necessary, #3 per reason above and #4 can also be indicated by prose alone too. Also the summary states: "© 2005 USPS. Used with permission. All rights reserved." which is not correct. I don't see how it can be "all rights reserved" or 'used with permission' but it can't be both. Perhaps the most important reason why the fair use rational fails is that it fails WP:NFCC which states; Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding. We can of course bring it to WP:IfD if you really want to discuss it further. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 05:24, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Your objections on points #1 and #4 of the fair use guidelines are, simply, a matter of opinion. Including the actual stamp image unquestionably displays the information in a more accessible way.  It's almost impossible to argue that the point is not made 'better and more effectively' by including the image.  The article is improved.  The reader's understanding of Pando's wider recognition is improved by seeing the image.


 * As for your objection to #3, and your objection to the summary: again, as I said in my first comment, the display of the image and the exact summary text there, is precisely what is suggested by the USPS. On USPS pages relating to the release of new stamp images, you will generally see the statement:


 * Please feel free to reproduce the image under the following guidelines.

1. Must be in full color (if publication is in color). 2. If reproduced within 75 - 150% of actual size, must have a bar through the denomination. 3. Must have the following printed: [copyright sign] © 2007 USPS Used with permission. All rights reserved.


 * So, this is standard practice. - Atarr (talk) 19:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I don't see this a standard practice on Wikipedia anywhere. Would you like to show me where? I am also not clear if this is what you are referring to but the USPS's thoughts on fair use don't comply with the more limited view taken by Wikipedia. We do no do "Educational Use", "News Reporting" or "Philatelic Advertising", so their agreement to not require permission AND add specific text will not work for us. I can't find any USPS page that states what you suggest. Could you provide a link so we can discuss this with some of the non-free content specialist editors about that but I should tell you that all similar cases I know of have been deleted as being unacceptable under Wikipedia's fair use criteria. Unless we are able agree, which look unlikely and you are so determined we will have to bring it to WP:IfD. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 19:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, we seem to be getting somewhere, as you don't even bother to dispute my argument that the image of the stamp exists to display its existence as opposed to its content, and that the image makes the information more accessible to the reader and improves the article's content.


 * As for the many, many examples of that text both being used on the web and being suggested by the USPS, here you go. - Atarr (talk) 21:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * (I've been busy) Actually the link you have provided is a Google search and of little verifiable consequence, but one link on the first page does bring me to this 2007 press release page where, at the bottom, you will see some of the details you state. There is a link on that page to 2008 commemorative stamp program which is again details for the press which states: "exclusively for news organizations to reproduce and display — in accordance with the prescribed conditions — for the sole purpose of reporting news stories directly related to the Postal Service’s issuance of stamps, stamp-related products, and other stamp-related news. Any other use is strictly prohibited and unauthorized. The Postal Service takes the unauthorized use of its intellectual property extremely seriously and will take appropriate legal action to stop, and seek compensation for, any and all such unauthorized use.", so we can't use that. And paragraph 2 clearly covers your argument where it states: "Permission Given Only to News Organizations


 * In accordance with paragraph 1, the Postal Service grants permission only to news organizations to download the Images from the Center and only for reproduction and display for the purpose stated above under the following conditions:
 * 1. A stamp Image must be displayed in full color (if the publication is in color) and must be reproduced in its entirety without any additions or deletions.
 * 2. If the stamp Image is reproduced within 75-150% of actual size, the denomination must be cancelled. A line may be drawn through the denomination to indicate cancellation.
 * 3. The following language must be printed underneath or within close proximity of the Image, and in any event it must be placed in an area that is readily visible to any viewer: © 2007 USPS. All Rights Reserved."


 * The problem is that information is for the media and their journalistic reporting. The current prose in the article, In 2006 the United States Postal Service made a stamp in commemoration of the aspen, calling it one of the forty "Wonders of America is quite sufficient to inform the reader and they will not fail to understand that a stamp was issued, so the use of a non-free stamp is not necessary which is why WP:NFCC states; Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding.


 * There have been several discussion about the use of non-free stamps in non-stamp articles (look at some of the links I have provided here) and the only way in which this stamp could be used is if there were some critical commentary about the stamp itself but there is not any and I cannot think of anything verifiable you could add that could possibly justify the use of the stamp in the article. Its existence is not sufficient reason to keep it. If we cannot agree this by consensus I will bring it to WP:IfD which I hoped to avoid. ww2censor (talk) 18:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

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File talk:WilmaRudolphStamp23.jpg