User talk:(aeropagitica)/Archive 24

Warnings
Hi, happy holidays and such! I hope that they all went well for you. Mine were a little too good apparently, and I missed the addition of the UK rescue link to the Alaskan Malamute page from yet another IP for some time. I added the first spam warning to their talk page but am wondering about beefing it up to or also adding the next one. Also, should I added the second level warning to all the addresses it has come from so far? Thanks ≈ Krasniy t/c 21:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I only usually add warnings to Talk pages of users to whom I can attribute edits. The varied number of IP addresses all posting the same URL to the article does suggest a concerted effort by one party but there is no conclusive proof that they are all coming from the different IP addresses.  I would only warn the IP editor that appears in the edit history of the article.  We have to be careful blocking IP addresses for spamming, especially as they could be randomly reallocated by the ISP, as with AOL.  It could be that this editor is aware of Wikipedia's policy about spamming and blocking, so is using an IP reallocation method to evade blocks.  As we can't be sure of their originating IP address at the moment then we can't be sure that the warnings will reach the correct editor.  If it does keep up then there may be a case for alerting the appropriate authorities at Tiscali UK about a spammer and providing the times, dates and IP addresses for them to check against their logs.  To summarise, you can escalate the warnings as you see fit but I wouldn't warn editors to whom I cannot attribute edits.

Let me know if you have any other questions about other aspects of contributing to Wikipedia! Regards, (aeropagitica) 17:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Paterson NJ
How are you? I have been contributing to the Paterson NJ article and have noticed a writer delete and add some inaccurate and simply made up information. I have attempted to contact him/her by posting some of my reasons for making some minor edits in the feedback space and i left him posts on the article's discussion pages. What other steps can i take? I have not yet seen a response and there is no way of knowing if the writer is aware of my comments? How can i find out his name so that i can leave him a note on his personal my talk? thank you --Javierbaires1 01:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

PS Thank you for adopting me
 * Erm, I haven't adopted you! Your userpage didn't include the adoption box and I haven't made an enquiry to you regarding adoption.  If you do want to be adopted, check out WP:ADOPT and see if you like the idea.  Follow the instructions on the page for requesting an adopter and follow it up with those who show an interest in taking you on. Regards, (aeropagitica) 16:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You can't be sure that an editor will read a message sent to them, even if it is sent to their Talk page, although a yellow messagebox will appear on each page that they look at until they check their personal Talk page. To find out who has made a particular edit to an article, look at the history tab at the top of the page.  This lists the edits to a page in chronological order, giving the editors' handle, time of the edit and the summary, if one was filled in.  You can look at the difference before and after an edit by choosing two radio buttons on the left hand-side of the page and clicking the 'Compare selected versions' button at the top of the history page.  This will give you a URL like this, which you can then use to show an editor what they have changed and then point out which changes you disagree with and why. (aeropagitica) 18:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

My apologies, thanks for all your help. I saw something added to my text saying i wanted to be adopted and i misunderstood. --Javierbaires1 01:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)Javierbaires1

Re: Adoption
Yes, I would like to be adopted. My main interests are video games, T.V. shows, and technology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiimo (talk • contribs)


 * OK, you might find portals about your topics of interest at the list of portals; interested editors there should assist you with making useful contributions to their projects. Don't forget to sign your posts on editors' Talk pages with four tildes, like this  ~ , as this is a great help in answering any questions that you might have! Let me know if you have any questions, by the way.  A message on my Talk page is the best way of contacting me. Regards, (aeropagitica) 18:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

IM
If you do get an instant message program of some sort, I am on AIM. You can message my email ventric (at) gmail dot com and I'll add you. Ventric 23:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Shirahadasha
Per this; Shirahadasha expressed an interested in closing delete XfD debates (answer to Q1), but WP:DPR says different. So, your vote is incorrect (or at least the reason given is, you can oppose for any reason or none). (I'm bringing this up here because the last time I posted a question to one of your votes at RfA, you never replied. I presume you don't check back after voting.) Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * She only says that she wants to do more work in AfD discussions and doesn't mention closing and deleting articles as per process. A non-admin editor can do more in XfD discussions without the power to delete articles - closing speedy keeps and exclusive keep discussions, finding and citing the relevant policies and guidelines, pointing out when speedy votes are inappropriate, such as copyvios more than 48 hours old.  The list goes on but I don't need to multiply examples. I believe that my opinion is justified by the evidence supplied by the candidate.  Your opinion may differ and I respect your right to hold it.  RfA discussions are equivocal, some on basic issues of protocol and others on more complex issues of interpretation, justification for the use of the tools, etc. This is one of the latter cases. Regards, (aeropagitica) 23:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This diff explains your question. My opinion was given with the original answer, which was subsequently changed some hours after.  The change has not been acknowledged by the applicant in the revised answer, something that I find surprising given that this affects the patterns of voting. (aeropagitica) 23:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello, aeropagita. I did revise my answer to Q1 in response to feedback from others. I wish to use the additional tools available to admins to help Wikipedia by expanding my activities, including closing XfDs, acting on vandalism, enforcing arbitrations. I regret if this was not made sufficiently clear in my original answer to Q1. I very much appreciate your time and consideration. Thanks, --Shirahadasha 00:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I see; makes sense then. I feel that it's not that easy to find AfDs to close if you only close speedy and uncontested keeps (but that's process creep and best ignored anyway). MfD is usually either a transparent delete consensus [user pages], or a controversial outcome, so not much to be done there. RfD, TfD, CfD and CfD/U could do with more eyes, I suppose, especially the two CfDs. The rest of the contributions you suggest are either the sort of pointless "inflate my Wikispace edit count" stuff that makes me squirm when I see them from borderline candidates at a 2nd RfA, or are contributions which anyone opining at XfD should make. After all, if you're not basing your opinion on policy and guidelines, there's only WP:ILIKEIT type arguments and the WP:IAR nuclear option left.
 * The question I asked earlier, which you missed, was this: are you applying the same guidelines at RfA today that you were when you accepted your nomination back in February? Angus McLellan (Talk) 00:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Adoption
Thanks, I think I've got it with the fair use and all now. Happy New Year to you too! :D Mrmoocow 09:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I was wondering about when or when not you should link an article? For example, for an article about a dog breed, link to dog? Should an article about a specific book link to book? Etc, etc. Mrmoocow 20:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I am not quite sure what you are getting at. Perhaps you mean categories rather than Wiki-links?  Articles should be categorised appropriately, yes.  This doesn't mean that every generic category such as 'Dogs' or 'Books' becomes top-loaded with every article that mentions either respective creature and object.  Categories are hierarchical, so 'Books' can be broken down in to year of publication, genre, author, etc.  This way, the categories are manageable and navigable with human intervention.  If they were all top-loaded then they would be useless. Take a look at Wikipedia:Categorization and the pages that link from it, particularly the categorization FAQ.  These should answer your questions.  This can be a very academic topic! (aeropagitica) 23:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your consideration
Thank you for the consideration you gave to my RfA. To be chosen as an administrator requires a high level of confidence by a broad section of the community. Although I received a great deal of support, at this time I do not hold the level of confidence required, and the RfA did not pass. Yours was one of the neutral votes, and raised concerns. I am more than willing to discuss those concerns with you if you are interested. Please let me know. Sincerely, --BostonMA talk 13:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

block of 72.200.166.120
I think 24 hours is not enough. This man edits continuously for 3 days. He makes the most dangerous form of vandalism - minor edits that anti-vandalBot or common reviewer easily miss.  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 22:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If he continues then the blocks will increase in length. It is an IP address, so I am wary of indef-blocking the editor for fear of accidentally blocking legitimate editors as collateral damage. (aeropagitica) 22:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll keep watching him.  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 23:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's the trouble with IP editors. They are slippery customers! (aeropagitica) 23:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

adoption
Thanks for the quick response! I've been a member of Wikipedia for a while but I haven't done anything significant yet. I'm particularly interested in A Series of Unfortunate Events. How do Wikiprojects get created? Rougeblossom 23:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikiproject resources can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. You should make a proposal for a project to see if anyone is interested in your ideas before you go ahead.  You will probably find experienced hands their ready to offer you assistance if your proposal is accepted. Remember to give sufficient detail about the scope and nature of the project.  Someone may have already created one and be ready to welcome you aboard! Regards, (aeropagitica) 23:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I've recently edited the plot section for The Phantom of the Opera movie. How do you recommend shortening overly long and/or ambiguous plot summaries? Thanks, Rougeblossom 20:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I would look at Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) for guidance on plot summaries. You don't need every last twist and turn to be mentioned.  A large block of text on-screen is very daunting to read; something that looks good on paper isn't so great online.  Could you cut it by a third or a quarter? (aeropagitica) 21:08, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Interview
Hi! I'm writing a work on Wikipedia and was wondering if I could interview you over IRC for it sometime in the next few days. -- Chris is  me 14:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC).


 * I don't use IRC, sorry. (aeropagitica) 15:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

A couple of formatting questions
Hi, (aeropagitica)! Thanks for adopting me and all; it's nice to have someone to ask questions personally as opposed to the help desk. I just had a few quick formatting questions. First of all, when you are creating a Level 1 headline with ==This== is there a policy regarding whether you put == Spaces around it == or ==Keep it tight== ? Does it matter? There is a lot of inconsistency, and I guess it doesn't as both look identical, except when editing the page. Any benefits to either? Also, I've noticed a lot of people put a blank line between headers and the beginning of their text. Does this matter either? Or is this all just personal preference. This is pretty trivial stuff, I know, but if there is a "right way" I'd like to use it. A couple of other things: when editing a talk page, or a user talk page, when is it appropriate (if ever) to mark as a minor edit? Is a quick note minor, or are all talk page edits minor, or none? Finally: there seems to be a whole standard shorthand for edit summaries. I have read the official page on this matter but it doesn't help much. "rv" is reverted, but I haven't figured much else out. And what do you write for an edit summary to a talk page? Anything? Thanks so much, (aeropagitica), and sorry if my questions seem trivial! I just want to know what the right thing to do is. (aeropagitica) 15:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Goyston (talk • contribs) 08:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Firstly, your questions aren't trivial - to you! - so that's why I'm here to help you answer them. To answer your questions point-by-point:
 * There is no difference in the output when you put the spaces between the equals signs and the title characters or have them tight against each other. I prefer to leave a space, personally, as then it is easier to cut-and-paste, if required.  The Manual of Style doesn't include spaces, but there's no need to remove them from article headers if you find them when editing.
 * The MediaWiki software interprets the Wiki code for display of text on the screen, so the spaces are automagically inserted when the browser downloads the article. Personally, I prefer to leave a space between a heading and the start of a paragraph as it is then easier to read the Wiki code screen if other people have to edit the same article.  Compacting text to remove white space makes a page harder to read and edit.  I would say leave a space but it doesn't make any difference to the article when downloaded in your browser. It's just whether you want to make the page easier to read for editors that will come after you.
 * I mark all of my edits as minor unless they are substantial additions to articles or policy discussions. I think that a major edit is adding a paragraph of text to an article, substantially rewriting an article to improve it by adding sources, references and removing POV material, etc.  Comments on Talk pages are neither here-nor-there.  Other people may have their own views, so it's up to them.  You can set your edits as minor by default in your preferences on the top right-hand side of the Wikipedia page, amongst other things.
 * Edit summaries are edit summaries - a synopsis of the points contributed to the page or article. If I click the '+' sign next to  the edit tab on a user Talk page then the option for leaving an edit summary isn't present.  If you choose to edit the entire page then it does require an edit summary. 'rv' does stand for revert and I see this when people have rolled back vandalism using software designed for that purpose, such as VandalProof or AutoWikiBrowser.  A list of edit summary abbreviations can be found at Wikipedia:Edit summary legend.
 * Don't feel afraid to ask any more questions, that's part of what adoption is all about. Regards, (aeropagitica) 15:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the speedy, thorough and well thought out answer. [[Image:WikiThanks.png]] Goyston (talk) (contribs) 17:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Adopt Reply
I want to be adopted and you posted on my talk page I think. I'm from Australia GMT+10 I think. Oh, did you say to put my interests because I'm probably most interested in Australian teen show actors and disney actors/singers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natasha1994 (talk • contribs)


 * OK, that's great! Let me know what sort of things that you are interested in here on Wikipedia and I will see if I can point you in the right direction.  I'm also available for pretty much all of your questions, so don't be afraid to ask them.  There might be delay in my replies because of the time difference, if that's ok with you.  Lastly, don't forget to sign your Talk page comments with four tildes, ~, like this.  That makes it easier to answer you! Regards, (aeropagitica) 15:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Adopt Reply
Hi! Thanks for offering to adopt me. I would like to take you up on that offer. My interests lie in local history and history in general. I work as a civil servant and I am in the second year of a History degree with the Open University, and as such, have access to the Open Library (a great resource than can be put to use here). The main attraction that Wikipedia holds for me is the opportunity to practice my writing skills.

I have made a start by editing the entry for my home village, Bamber Bridge. Please take a look at that and see what you think - there is still plenty more to include and it might look a little disjointed at the moment. I have looked at a few other wikipedia entries and looked at their edit pages (without making edits) to get some ideas. The only other edits I have made are on the Ruskin College entry.Charlie odd 16:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Use of fair use images in signatures
(aeropagitica), please stop using the fair use tagged image Image:United Federation of Planets flag.png. This image has now been scattered over a large number of non-main article namespace pages, and will need to be removed to adhere to Fair use criteria item #9. If you have questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. --Durin 17:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Eh? I stopped using that ages ago, when first alerted to a problem!  My sig now links though to my talk page and contains no image or other html/wiki code. Regards, (aeropagitica) 17:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Cheesecake, Last Take
To be honest, it offends me that you are implying that Hello Goodbye is my band, or some sort of local act and that you are suggesting I instead start a Myspace for them. Hello Goodbye is a larger band in the European indie-rock scene. I am not part of Hello Goodbye, nor am I affiliated with them in any way other than the fact that I am a fan of their music. I actually searched Wikipedia for information regarding this band, but there was none so I decided to start an entry along with Hello Goodbye's releases. Maybe there was no information here because it was deleted due to it being so called "non-notable". Regardless, I don't think that I am the only one that has checked Wikipedia for information on Hello Goodbye or their releases. I believe that the articles on Hello Goodbye are relevant to Wikipedia, so I am re-starting the Cheesecake, Last Take article. Please do not delete it just because you are not aware of the band or their music. KMSatoh202 23:38, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The article about the 7" single, linked to above, was deleted because it does not assert the notability of its subject. The band article was not deleted.  I notice that the reposted article also doesn't assert any notability for its subject.  Please see WP:Music for details.  If you have any notable information that would make this article safe from deletion then you should insert it as quickly as possible.  Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs for details for including this information.  Chart positions and sales figures would be useful for a researcher.  By the way, straight reposts of speedily deleted articles are considered vandalism, unless you can supply the information required to assert notability. For this reason I will tag the article as a db-repost, which will give you some time to insert the information. (aeropagitica) 00:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The article was deleted again before I even had the chance to add any information. Not that it matters anyway, since apparently for a band's release to be notable it has to have some chart position. Is this the case? I hope not, because I always thought that Wikipedia was a gold mine for information that was hard to find, but these "regulations" for articles on releases seems to make it difficult for a legitimate release to get a page without chart info and sales statistics. I guess I can understand some of the motives behind this, but while this can keep Wikipedia free from true non-notables, it also hurts bands and releases that deserve recognition. Anyway, does this mean that I have to wait for this four year old 7" to hit it big before an article can be created?KMSatoh202 00:34, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia isn't the place to advertise future success, it is a record of notable, people, groups, places, processes, objects, achievements, etc. Standards for music-related notability are available at WP:Music. Music and band-related articles will be reviewed according to these standards and kept or deleted as required.  Waiting isn't an issue - if a single isn't notable then an article about it cannot assert any notability; non-notable articles are deleted with reference to the policies and guidelines. (aeropagitica) 00:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Apparently we have a misunderstanding. You believe that I am advertising for future success, which I am not. The article for Cheesecake, Last Take was not an article for the song, it was an article for the physical release by the band. According to WP:Music the notability guideline for albums/releases is controversial, citing that the general consensus is that if a musical group is notable, then "their albums have sufficient notability to have individual articles on Wikipedia." which would mean that the Cheesecake, Last Take release would be considered notable. It doesn't matter though, because you're an admin and ultimately you're the one that's going to delete it anyway.KMSatoh202 00:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I would urge you to assume good faith on the part of other editors. Your last comment is entirely unwarranted.  'Future success' refers to your comment:
 * "...but while this can keep Wikipedia free from true non-notables, it also hurts bands and releases that deserve recognition."'


 * "...deserve..." is a subjective value judgement. Two or more editors can differ in their opinion of what is deserving, which is why the touchstone of policies and standards is available for a neutral decider in such matters. "...hurts" is an emotive word without any evidence to support its inclusion.  Bands have many channels open to them to advertise their products; Wikipedia is a record of notability rather than such a channel.


 * I won't repeat my earlier advice about supplying reliable sources to demonstrate the notability of the subjects of articles. If they cannot achieve notability according to standards and guidelines such as WP:Music then they will be considered for deletion.  If you have evidence that it can be rescued from such a fate then I suggest that you take your business case to a deletion review where it can be assessed by other admins. Regards, (aeropagitica) 01:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Nduell
(aeropagitica), I would like to comment that you recommended Nduell to join "a Wikiproject such as Wikipedia:Esperanza." However, Esperanza is an inactive project. Happy editing! SD31415  (SIGN HERE)  00:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Good point, I thought that I had updated my advice. It looks as though the edit was lost, I will make the change again.  Thanks for pointing this out. (aeropagitica) 00:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ben Locker
That section of the deletion policy has been rewritten slightly since I read it last, and I apologise if I was too bold in closing the AfD. Since it was an unambiguous G7 speedy I thought it best to simply tag it and end the discussion rather than tag it and wait for an admin to delete it before closing the AfD. Eluchil404 02:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If you don't have the power to enforce your decision then closing the discussion isn't an option. I'm not aware of a previous time when non-admins were permitted to close discussions that resulted in a 'delete' consensus.  It is good that you have now reviewed and are now aware of the current policy about closing AfDs. Regards, (aeropagitica) 02:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Your offer to adopt me
Thank you for offering to adopt me. I too am on GMT. Please visit my userpage or talkpage to check on the projects I need help with. Thanks again for your offer.

Emmagallagher 17:51, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Chess
My chess page is under threat of deletion! I noticed that you enjoyed a game with user:zapptastic once before, so please defend my shess page for good reasons at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Guitarmankev1/Chess. Otherwise, the entire chess world on wikipedia may crumble eventually. - Kevin (TALK) 17:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you spamming for support votes on user Talk pages, as with TBC, West Brom 4ever,

Littleghostboo, Temple1865 and Calmypal? Are you not aware of votestacking? Please cease and desist immediately. (aeropagitica) 18:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of that policy, yet I was only trying to make other people aware of what was going on, and I was using the same message so that I wouldn't have to type it over and over again. A question, though. How are other people supposed to become aware of the vote if I cannot notify them? Again, I apologise and I did not mean to violate policy. - Kevin (TALK) 18:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The page is tagged with a link to the MfD discussion. Interested editors can find the discussion that way. I'm sure that you didn't mean to violate policy but I was obliged to warn you when I found out. (aeropagitica) 19:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, that makes sense. And I'm not holding anything against you, since it is policy. Thanks for working this out calmly. - Kevin (TALK) 19:05, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: adoption
Looks like you contacted me around Dec. 31st. I've been busy with the Holidays and work. Yes I would like to be adopted. Not sure what that means yet. There is a lot to read here about this stuff. My main interests is portable video gaming systems. I own 22 different ones. I do have a general interest in video game systems, retro stuff being my first love. Retro machine 22:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks for getting in to contact with me! I would recommend looking to see if there is a Wikiproject about your interests. There are a lot of videogame articles here, so there are probably other editors out there with similar interests and experiences to your own.  Let me know if you have any questions or encounter problems and I will do my best to help you.  Don't be afraid to ask questions, part of my job is to help you out so that you can help Wikipedia! Regards, (aeropagitica) 22:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)