User talk:Švališér

Please do not insert preliminary results of the 2011 Czech Republic Census. You are free to update articles on Wikipedia when the official and final results of the Census will be announced. - Darwinek (talk) 18:26, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Articles like Czechs, Moravians and Silesians have this data and nobody protests. Calm down Pole. --Švališér (talk) 20:04, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * About 1/4 of population didn't precise any ethnicity, you see. So 39,000 is (possibly) a appr. 75% of total, so 51,000 is possibly a probable value. We have different sort data - census and register estimations, I guess. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 20:12, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you have a source to this statement or it is just a your polish wishful thinking? --Švališér (talk) 08:45, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not a Pole, I never was in Poland. I'm just trying to analyze the conflict matter, you see. Darwinek and you are talking about very different sources, you see. The source you provided brings ethnicities of appr.75% of Czech Republic total, isn't it? The rest of Czech population ethnicity is not precised but it is very possible the respective number of ethnic Poles is hidden in this 'not precised' value, if so - outdated 2002 value 51,000 is possible, I guess. We have analyze all sources we use, I guess. So your source is valid only if we will make a note for Wikipedia customers about the 'not precised' 25% - these 2.5 mln possibly can contain every ethnicities and Polish too. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 09:06, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Somebody with (dot)PL is not a Pole (well, you have V in nick, so probably you are not)? In 2011 czech census you choose nationality rather than ethnicity and you can write down two of them (for example, my mother write down czech and silesian nationality, I only silesian one). But I think, that Wiki could count only those, who declared themselves as Poles, not some hypothetical number sucked from toe. --Švališér (talk) 10:06, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I am Russian, PL is my name Pavel Leonidovich. But discussions about wikipedian's ethnicity/nationality are strongely prohibited as it is a sort of private information, isn't it? Civility is very usefull rule in Wikipedia and real life also, I guess.
 * Situation when over 1/4 of the nation rejected ethnicity declaration is unusual and two censuses data are not compatible now. Hypothesis as persons with no ethnicity declaration don't have ethnicity at all is your own opinion. We have tell the real situation: Census 2001 ethnicity declaration covers over 98% of nation total, but Census 2011 - 74% only. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 13:05, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Not ethnicity. Nationality. Its a big difference. In czech populations, there are big moves (according to 2011 census, rise of "non-traditional" nationalities like Ukrainians, Russians etc.) and using 10 years old datas is misguiding. --Švališér (talk) 15:06, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Not nationality. Ethnicity. It's a big difference. Somebody of Czech nationality can have a Polish ethnicity - ethnic Pole with Czech citizenship.
 * Census 2001 shows 5.17% ethnic Poles share (of population with known ethnicity), Census 2011 shows 5.02% ethnic Poles share (of population with known ethnicity). A little bit less, you see. But national population total increased +3.25% so share losses are compensated with absolute growth.
 * And again - Census 2011 data are not compatible to previous censuses or other countries censuses as 26% national total ethnicity is unknown. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 17:45, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Nationality doesn't mean citizenship. From 2011 census (definition of [:cs:národnost]): "Podle definice použité při sčítání lidu 2011 se národností rozumí příslušnost k národu, národnostní nebo etnické menšině. Dále podle této definice není pro určení národnosti v České republice rozhodující mateřská řeč ani řeč, kterou člověk používá nebo lépe ovládá, ale jeho vlastní rozhodnutí. Je možné se hlásit k jedné i více národnostem, nebo také k žádné." Ethnicity x nationality x citizenship - its a big difference in czech language (don't know it exact meaning in english though). Your ethnicity is given by your born, cultural surround etc., your nationality is made by self-determination and your citizenship by state you live in. For example - my ethnicity is czech, cause I speak czech, have been part of czech culture etc., but my nationality is silesian (I don't know a word from silesian language, donť know nothing about silesian culture, but I self-determinate to be a Silesian (its place where I live, which I admire, love, care about its history etc.)), my citizenship is czech too (I live in Czech Republik). So you can be ethnic Slovak, who resident in Belgium (thus your citizenship is belgian), but you declare yourself as German. --Švališér (talk) 18:37, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * In English (we are at English Wikipedia) nationality is a citizenship, but ethnicity is a linguistic and cultural self-determination of every person. So 2.75 mln Czech nationals didn't precised their ethnicity as it is a private decision, but nationality is a formal citizenship. You can be ethnic Czech with Polish nationality residing in Belgium, isn't it? Bogomolov.PL (talk) 19:38, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't, I don't like Belgium... ;). Too long discussion with no point, I'm quiting. --Švališér (talk) 19:54, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The point is: we know the 2011 ethnicity absolute data are useless; we know the Poles share is almost the same as 2001 was. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 20:10, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * We don't know it, you just presume it. No original research! Stick to data. --Švališér (talk) 08:54, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * We know - this share is almost the same (the values I've provided). This is censuses data. And nothing original, you see. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 09:35, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Quotation: "we know the Poles share is almost the same as 2001 was.", please add reliable source to this statement, or it is just your original research. We only know, that in 2001 census 51,968 people declare themselves as Poles and in 2011 census it was 39 269 people. --Švališér (talk) 10:14, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The source you provided . It contents Census 2001 data (5.17% ethnic Poles share of population with known ethnicity), and Census 2011 data (5.02% ethnic Poles share of population with known ethnicity). National population total increased +3.25% so share losses are compensated with absolute growth.
 * And again - absolute figures of Census 201 are not compatible to previous censuses or other countries censuses as 26% national total ethnicity is unknown. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 18:16, 27 December 2011 (UTC)