User talk:Сенка~enwiki

Hello. I am actually pleased that you have interest in improving and expanding articles related to football in Serbia in the pre-1945 period. However, when adding information it would be good if you could bring sources for those articles. The main reason why many of those articles are still not much expanded is because of the difficulty in finding reliable sources for them, because Wikipedia works following the Verifiability policy, and not personal knolledge, as much as it may be correct.

Now, I have made some changes to your edits, because that is how the policies recomend (for instance not overlinking, or using extensive forms of date when listing seasons). Also, be carefull to properly link the article you want to link, as I noteced you twice linked Serbian League (plyed nowadays, as seen at the article) for seasons played over 60 years ago... In any case of doubts I will gladly offer you my help. FkpCascais (talk) 02:27, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Can you please bring SOURCES!? Unsourced material will be deleted, and I actually fully support that policy. FkpCascais (talk) 02:38, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Hi. I am trying to make sense of all of those years, but it will take some time. I will appreciate if you give me some time to explain all of those separate links and competitions. You can not erase and glue them as you wish, because BSK and SK Jugoslavija played their games in different situations during the years. For example, SK Jugoslavija, beside those 2 Yugoslav titles, won also 2 more Serbian titles. But both of them were won in totally different circumstances. The first one was in 1914 in Kingdom of Serbia, in competition organized by Serbian Olympic Club. The second one came in 1942 in Nedic's Serbia. Similarly, BSK won (besides its own 5 titles in YU) also 2 more titles in 1920 and 1921 (links and data are incorrect, BLP championships weren't played during fall-spring time, but calendar year, and those standings are just for Belgrade city championship, BSK had to play extra games with other teams from BLP regions for the title of champion's BLP and therefore Serbia). When JNS was dissolved in 1939, first 2, then 3 national championship were played in Yugoslavia. BSK won both Serbian championship 1939/40 and 1940/41. After April 6th we had again new situation. Serbian Footbal Assotiation in Nedic's Serbia somehow managed to held 4 championships with different numbers of participants and formats (they played both cup and league). So that's why we have champions for 1941: BSK (Serbian Cup), 1942: SK 1913 (BLP Cup), 1942/43 BSK (BLP League), 1943/44 BSK (Belgrade League). I am planing to make another page with a link to the book that has all those informations...

Сенка (talk) 03:02, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 


 * OK, I understand, but we really need to have all those articles sourced. To be honest, I have been trying to keep some order in many of those articles, and I must say that 90% of people usually come and add unsourced info, often wrong or unprecise (not saying you of course)... So ends up being better to have less info but sourced rather than much info but impossible to confirm. Is your book available online? If it is, you could just add it at bottom of the article and would solve the sourcing problem. About the different situations, I was kind of wanting to make a distinction between the Srpska Liga played before 1941 (as a qualifiying league for the Yugoslav First League, and the one that became top league of Nedic Serbia. That is why I didn´t wanted to have them together at OFK-a article... What would you suggest? Regarding the names, I literally translated the term Srpska Liga used for the one of WWII period to Serbian League (I added "Football" as most leagues will end up having "Football" included because of other sports), and "Serbian Championship" which was used by RSSSF website in the source, for the 1920s seasons. FkpCascais (talk) 03:20, 31 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Ali Senka, zasto mi vracas ovaj edit. Obicaj je da se sezone pisu cele a ne da se skracuju u samo jednu godinu; a drugo, nema potrebe da dva puta linkujemo clanak BSK-a, to je overlinking i u tim slucajevima se obicno samo linkuje prvi u listi a ostali ne... FkpCascais (talk) 03:25, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Cekaj, rekao si mi ovo za sezone, ali link RSSSF pise ih tako, pogledaj sam: primer, 1919-20. FkpCascais (talk) 03:29, 31 March 2012 (UTC) Mozda je deo ipak zahvatao drugu godinu, mozda taj kada se igralo protiv ostalih podsaveza?
 * Kad bi mogao odmah da postavis source bilo bi super. Jer, nisi bas u pravu sto se tice "You can not erase and glue them as you wish" jer svaki editor ima pravo da brise sve informacije koje nisu obezbedjene sa nekom source. Narocito clanci bez ijednog source, da nisam ja stavio ono na pocetku strane sutra bi verovatno neko dosao i predlozio clanak za brisanje zato sto nema izvore. Rekao sam ti, Wikipedija nije projekat "istine", nego je najvaznija: Verifiability. FkpCascais (talk) 03:37, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Evo recimo ja sam Bojanicevu knjigu o derbijima dosta koristio ovde. FkpCascais (talk) 03:44, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Pa zato sto ni rsssf nije tacan. Rekoh, nije se igralo jesen-prolece kako rsssf ukazuje, vec tokom godine. Prva greska u njihovoj tabeli je da navode da se igrala liga Beogradskog podsaveza 1919/20, a znamo da je BLP osnovan marta 1920. Znaci, nije bilo sanse da se igra liga pre kraja marta 1920, a na linku pise 1919. Drugo, ti rezultati su nepotpuni i obuhvataju samo takmicenje na teritoriji grada Beograda. BSK je kao pobednik lige Beograda isao u dodatne kvalifikacije sa pobednicima ostalih zupa, i u finalu je tukao ako se ne varam Gradjanski iz Sremske Mitrovice, cime je postao sampionom celog podsaveza. Toga na linku nema. Ista prica je za sledecu sezonu.

Sto se termina Srpska liga tice i ja imam problema. Ona se tako zvala zvanicno te dve sezone 1939/40 i 1940/41 (prve sezone imali smo i Hrvatsko-slovenacku ligu, a druge sve tri nacionalne). I bila je organizovana od Srpskog loptackog saveza, istog onog koji je nastavio i u Nedicevoj Srbiji da funkcionise. Sa strane saveza, onda bi to sve moglo pod jedan link, ali ne zaboravi da SLS nije imao pod kontrolom niti Vojvodinu, niti Bosnu, niti Crnu Goru, a ni Makedoniju, kao sto je imao pre rata. Sta vise, kontrola SLSa je bila ogranicena manje vise na BGD i okolinu, zbog ratnih dejstava u Srbiji... Zato sam u prvi mah razdvojio sezone iz perioda Kraljevine i okupacije, ali, tehnicki gledano, moguce ih je spojiti.

Сенка (talk) 03:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 


 * Moramo da ih razdvojimo u periode kada su titule regionalne i od kada postaju nacionalne. Cisto radi primera, setio sam se Kosovar Superliga u kojima to isto takmicenje ima potpuno drugacije znacenje kada je kao 3-4 stepen nase lige, ili posle 2000. kada postaje (kao) nacionalno prvenstvo (iako ne priznato od strane FIFA i UEFA, ali nema veze, dajem samo kao primer iste lige u razlicitim dobima).
 * Uzeo sam knjigu i sigurno cu je progutati ovih sledecih dana :) FkpCascais (talk) 06:21, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Procitao sam je. Revertovao sam ti neke promene. Nema sanse da se Olimpijski Kup smatra "Serbian League" a sezone za sada ostavi onako jer su onako pokrivene izvorima. RSSSF nisu budale, i vrlo je moguce da imaju razlog zasto su ih tako napisali, a kad nadjemo drugi izvor koji tvrdi drugacije, onda ce mo popraviti, ako bude trebalo. Molim te nemoj da revertujes ponovo te promene jer su one pokrivene izvorom, a ti ni ne dodajes nikakav pri revertovanju, a pored toga postoji limit revertovanja 3RR i molim te uzdrzavaj se njega. FkpCascais (talk) 10:53, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

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