User talk:とある白い猫/Archive/2006/07

Help
Hi, I'm T-man, and I need some help from you to publically identify a stalker. Basically this is my case so far. I'm trying to gather more evidence in my talk page, but other administrators are having trouble to see how DA is a wikistalker. Since you already experienced it, I hoped you could help me.


 * "User:Dyslexic agnostic appears unable to assume good faith with regards User:T-man, the Wise Scarecrow, and appears to have formed himself into a one man T-Man correction squad, note [51]. I'm also concerned by the comments expressed in this diff, [52], which indicate some level of keeping an eye on T-Man. User:T-man, the Wise Scarecrow seems incapable of keeping his temper with regards Dyslexic agnostic".   -Steve Block ( Requests for arbitration/Dyslexic Agnostic/Evidence ).


 * Simply put; they show signs of being able to work usefully, but need to be kept apart. Mozzerati 20:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC) -Mozzerati Requests for arbitration/Dyslexic Agnostic/Evidence


 * He has come to believe that T-Man's contributions are without merit, and has not been shy in saying so. Requests for arbitration/Dyslexic Agnostic/Evidence

Previous cases:


 * ''In the matter of Cool Cat (talk • contribs) (aka User:Coolcat) — a case decided on October 5, 2005 — the ArbCom voted that wikistalking was unacceptable in the following circumstances: It is not acceptable to stalk another editor who is editing in good faith. (Note that everyone is expected to assume good faith in the absence of definite evidence to the contrary.) Once an editor has given reason to suspect bad faith, monitoring is appropriate, but constantly nit-picking is always a violation of required courtesy. There are hundreds of administrators available to monitor problem users...Following an editor to another article to continue disruption (also known as wikistalking)'. The term "wiki-stalking" has been coined to describe following a contributor around the wiki, editing the same articles as the target, with the intent of causing annoyance or distress to another contributor.


 * In the matter of Skyring — a separate case decided August 12, 2005 — a user was found by the Arbitration Committee to have committed "wikistalking". The committee voted 5-0 that:

"The term 'wiki-stalking' has been coined to describe following a contributor around the wiki, editing the same articles as the target, with the intent of causing annoyance or distress to another contributor. This is distinct from following a contributor in order to clear repeated errors."

"On 13 June User:Skyring followed User:Jtdirl, editing a large set of articles that had recently been edited by Jtdirl (see contributions for 13 June). While it is not possible to fully assess intent, this action, and some of the edit summaries used, seem designed to provoke: 'enfeebled minds', 'Some professional standards, please!', 'A common pattern for this editor to produce poor English', 'Low quality of Irish editor'" --T-man, the wise 06:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Declaring somene a stalker is one of the most time consuming tasks. What I recomend is...
 * ...to stay away from contraversial articles, at least until the arbitration case is over;
 * ...not to argue with your stalker on every article, allow him to simply revert you;
 * ...not to revert war no matter how tempting it is, you can revert after arbitration case is over;
 * ...to reorganise evidence on the arbitration page (see Requests for arbitration/Moby Dick/Evidence for an example).
 * The evidence you are looking for is showing cases that user has been folowing you around on unrelated topics. If you had stalked him back (as he claims), this will complicate matters.
 * -- Cat chi? 09:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Qatar flag large.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Qatar flag large.png. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then there needs to be an argument why we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then it needs to be specified where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the GFDL-self tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Fair use, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, consider checking that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. - SCEhard T 13:21, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not know who created the flag of quatar, but you should know all goverments flags are pd as per various international treaties etc. -- Cat chi? 14:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I would have thought so but based on flagimage and the discussion at Template_talk:Flagimage it looks like the assumption of PD may be incorrect. However, it looks like almost all the flag images are now in this mystery status so it seems to make sense to just leave it alone until the issue is clarified/settled. Sorry for the bother! - SCEhard T 00:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm. OK. I probably renamed an exiting image. If there is a better one in commons you are welcome to delete it.
 * As per international treties (such as the geniva convention and several others) flags are required to be in the PD for at least the purpose of combattant identification.
 * Oh it wasnt a bother. BTW, please do not respond in archives in the future (I am not trying to be picky). I noticed your post only because of a coincidence. Use talk page instead :)
 * -- Cat chi? 01:12, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

wikiproject
I want to start a wikiproject to help identify wikistalker. I wouldn't bring up the Dyslexic Agnostic case until the project is defined.

Would you like to lead it?

On top of my mind I would say the project would focus on:
 * define objetives
 * define what's a wikistalker
 * define what's a wikistalkee
 * set the what kind of evidence is needed to identify a wikistalker definitively
 * set the what kind of evidence is needed to identify bad faith
 * define how to enforce punishmet or parole
 * Identify wikistalkers and wikistalkees
 * Arbitrate cases.
 * Store previous cases as reference

I'd be as active as posible, but I recognize such project would be kind of out of my league, so I'd say the attention of major administrators (like Jimbo Whales, victim of stalking himself) would be key to this project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by T-man, the Wise Scarecrow (talk • contribs)
 * WP:STALK takes care almost all of that, rest is done in WP:Arbcom. A wikiproject supposed to help us write articles or work on well defined problems. It is posible to list all stalking related ossue on the page explaining stalking.
 * You might want to bring up a request for an expanding of the WP:HA page.
 * -- Cat chi? 04:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

An odd edit
See here. :) -ZeroTalk 08:19, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting. But why are you posing as a different editor? -- Cat chi? 12:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Its not a viel. This is my real name. I've experienced quite a bit on wikipedia, I believe and I felt it okay to begin using my legitimate title. I also tired of editors calling me "megaman". You may still continue to call me by Zero if you feel it necessary. I won't mind. -Randall Brackett 12:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay. I'll go with the wind then.
 * Randall, in that case you sould login as megaman zero and post something on your megaman zero username and talkpage pointing to your current username. You should have one userpage and usertalk page so as to avoid confusion and impostoration suspicion. :)
 * -- Cat chi? 12:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't work that way anymore. I requested Angela to move my account, contributions and related data over to my current username. She and I also avoided this by execution of redirecting all relevant talk and user pages to this and I moved all my subpages yesterday. If people are suspicious, they can merely ask. I need only to tell them this.


 * Its not as if I've become a different editor, if not by username, many editors should surmize regonition by simple observatin of my communication and writing style. -Randall Brackett 13:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment (sorta)
I think that in order to stop the critisism you should be more open, concidering you are pretending to know everything. Also it is my understanding that only criminals have to hide thier idenity, so your either a criminal or you are to scared to be yourself and stand behind what you belive no matter what the risk may be. you should be ashamed of yourself letting your fear of persecution hide your identity. So if you whant to judge prepare to be judged and rediculed in the same manner that you are disrepecting peoples heritage and ancestry,and lastly who asked you to take up this project anyway obviously nobody if you are hiding your identity. Be a man what are you scared of show us what an incredible character you are. ABUCHABNASEER —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.240.4.246 (talk • contribs)
 * Lack of criticism is lack of progress. I welcome criticism as long as there is a constructive aspect to it. What you suggest is not compatible with wikipedias NPOV policy. I was hired by Starfleet.
 * I am not certain what you are refering to with the accusations you are directing at me, in any case they are a breach of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA.
 * -- Cat chi? 12:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:TLK-Landscape-Promo.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:TLK-Landscape-Promo.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be an argument why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the GFDL-self tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Fair use, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Note that any unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. meco 18:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Moby Dick
I must admit I hadn't noticed that batch of edvidence previously. This editor's abuse has become so obsessive he's been disruptive over at commons..? -Randall Brackett 18:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It certainly appears that way. Though so far he only has 3 edis on commons which isnt exactly disruptive. Also En.wiki rules dont apply to commons. So there are a number of loop-holes in policy. -- Cat chi? 18:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You'll not be surprised to discover I happen to look upon this with a sufficient measure of disgust. This kind of behavior should never be tolerated in wiki society and I'm complacent to discover the proposed decision is coming to some very reasonable remedies on the issue. It would be sheer idiocy to permit this editor to run loose about the wiki. -Randall Brackett 18:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * His is one vote, in the aftermath I got two support votes and a person identifying moby dick as a stalker. Davenbelle opposing me recieveing a barnstar was a turning point in the previous rfar. I think for this case his edit only strengthens our argument. -- Cat chi? 19:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:TLK-Landscape-Promo.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:TLK-Landscape-Promo.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. meco 20:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:TLK-Landscape-Promo.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:TLK-Landscape-Promo.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. meco 08:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Quote comment
just a question. the quote "You've persecuted us for generations... And now you beg us to aid you? We will do what we must... But we do it for Aiur, not you!". is it from a Ursula Leguen book or am I mistaken.neurobio 00:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It is from Zeratul of Starcraft. :) -- Cat chi? 00:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * oh yea now I remember. that ghostly character.:)neurobio 00:37, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Dark Templar... :) -- Cat chi? 00:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * can you notifiy me when you want something deleted.neurobio 00:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia awards committee
Check out my comments here, Wikipedia awards committee. Thanks! --evrik 17:37, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Request
Can you keep an eye on ? Karl Meier is essentially attempting to delete the article through directing it to the PKK article. 24.211.192.250 10:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

On Air
I'm stuck without my normal computer for a while and thus won't be able to work on the articles for some time. ATM, I'm only able to be on this Mac (I normally use a PC) briefly and it's too bothersome to try and do articles on it. --SeizureDog 18:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

please Mr. Post Man
thank you for reviving my summary. I thought it made sense, apparently that other guy didn't. I put effort into it, thanks again for not letting it go to waste. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verde830 (talk • contribs)
 * Well to be fair, the episodes title as well as the episode itself was quite wierd. Narutos filler episodes are borderlining nonsense lately :(. The heart symbol etc probably implied it was some sort of a prank which of course wasnt the case.
 * -- Cat chi? 21:18, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the clean up - much better :-) I know nothing at all about the topic and could not have done it myself.--A Y Arktos\talk 19:44, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

arbcom
Mabe it will help to know that Karl Meier was revert waring in armenian genocide article too. he came out of no where started to change titles of article (opposition to denial, obvious POV). I have warned him 3 times (the last one was harsh) saying that there is consensus on that and he must comment in talk page if he wants change. it did not help.neurobio 02:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You can cite the revert waring on the Arbcom evidence page (actualy I might for you). -- Cat chi? 12:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
 * please do it then. I dont want to get involved in arbcom my self.neurobio 12:54, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I did, citing evidence is not involvement. -- Cat chi? 12:57, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Turkey
RogerMooreArm/Lifer00 is back - This time as User:Houlihan1. Is there any sort of action we can take against this guy ? P.S. Can you keep a close eye on the article? --Kilhan 04:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Started a long term case, see Requests for checkuser/Case/RogerMooreArm -- Cat chi? 13:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks a heap! Its best to keep the article semi-protected in case he/she shows up again. Oh, and can you add a comment here when you've got time ? --Kilhan 22:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh oh, RogerMooreArm isnt a new user anymore, and now he/she's able to edit the semi-protected article--Kilhan 04:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

FireFox warning
Well I'll be a thing that does stuff, I thought he was talking about my comments on the lost dispute,. I guess I learn something new everyday. -- Ned Scott 11:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You should be civil at all times avoiding personal remarks. I am glad the issue has been cleared. -- Cat chi? 12:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Gustav Leonhardt is a highly acclaimed Dutch harpsichordist
It's not a personal attack just because you addressed me by name. Also, what you said isn't untrue, except I wouldn't call it complaining, since that's just rude. Rather, it's called discussion. Feel free to change it back to my name, I won't go screaming "NPA!", since that's just silly. -- Ned Scott 09:08, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have never met or heard of a Gustav Leonhardt, nor do I see a relevance.
 * I try to avid personal reverances unless it is absolutely necesary (such as in arbitration cases or ANB/I posts). This is something not covered in policy, just my personal preference. Personal referances often make people act over defensively as it is apperant in this very discussion.
 * Declaring someting "going too far" is complaining, more so 5 days after its creation.
 * I also am curious on why are you going through my individual diffs. You noticed and responded to that particular diff 10 minutes after the change. Just how frequently are you loading my diffs?
 * -- Cat chi? 09:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There's no relevance to Gustav at all, but he's sure one hell of a harpsichordist.
 * Do you think I am stalking you? Do you think I am watching your edits, waiting for the chance to make your life miserable? You have nothing to fear, I'm not going to follow you around Wikipedia. That doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to avoid you on articles that I have a legitimate interest in editing and contributing to, such as the Air articles. I do not edit, suggest, list for AfD, or anything like that just to cause you grief. -- Ned Scott 09:36, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Then please lets stay on topic.
 * For the record, I haven't accused you of stalking and cannot understand the reason of your deffensive stance. If I felt that you were stalking me, we would not be talking. I however am still curious on how did you notice and prepare a response to a change just after ten minutes. I can't think of a way aside from loading individual diffs or reloading the afd page every 10 minues and reading it carefull enogh to notice such a change.
 * Since you are interested air articles, why not help out aside from participating in discussion. How about expanding the character articles?
 * P.S. feel free to post your response on my talk page if you want a more prompt response. Keeping the thread on both talk pages while not required is common practice.
 * -- Cat chi? 11:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Free licensed manga covers.
guillom on irc told me to contact you about this issue. I am trying to get manga, anime dvd covers etc to be relased with free license so they can be used on all wikipedias. To do this I need to get the manga creator and/or company to release images with a free license.

I was wondering if there is any example of manga/anime being released with a free license. The prospect should be appealing to the creators since this will be free advertisement for them.

P.S: Please respond on my en.talk page so that I can respond back in a prompt manner. :)

-- Cat chi? 12:50, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * meow
 * Unfortunatly, I've never seen an example of "free licence" manga/DVD cover yet.
 * I think company will be quite afraid of doing that because, since it's freely reusable, it also be coucurrents company can also use them.
 * Darkoneko 11:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am exploring the posibilities of aquiring free images from various organisations as well as various others from a number of different channels. For instance, my Turkish Millitary contact was very interested in such a deal but there is currently a discussion on weather or not to allow images to be altered.
 * I'd like to explore the posibilities with japanese companies and organisations in a simmilar manner but I do not have the language skills. I want to start with manga and anime. I feel companies would be more than willing to sacrifice one or two low-resolution images.
 * ESA images were not orriginaly avalible with a free license. With discussion and debate, they became freely avalible.
 * -- Cat chi? 12:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Moby Dick up to his old tricks
See this.

I acted in good faith upon my removal of the spoiler tags and I feel that they weren't at all apropriate since we didn't really elaborate on the plot points in our cooperation on the articles. I won't revert again if you replce it but I beleive its quite obvious this editor reverted clearly to take advantage of the slight disagreement we had. I think its also evidence he has engaged in stakery again.

I'm sorry if I offended you when I removed them like this. I'll attempt more consideration next time and post on the talkpage. -Randall Brackett 21:33, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am not offended but its genneraly better practice to wait for the discussion (at the talk page of the spoiler thing) to complete.
 * As for character articles, I do not really mind the removal of the tags... I guess with that reasoning it is only logical. I am also not certain if the tag is necesary in any article; you'd expect to see a plot summary in a plot section, a warning to that end is really redundent. Furthermore, our friendship is more important than the tags.
 * As for Moby Dick, I am sure arbcom would love to see this new evidence. I would however ask you not to revert war with him so as to evade unnecesary arbcom restrictions. Sometimes retreat is the better side of valor, especialy when dealing with stalkers.
 * -- Cat chi? 17:28, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Imposter?
Just blocked User:Cool_Cat@81.213.136.114 which seemed an odd name to choose, I assume it's not you. --pgk( talk ) 19:58, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nah, just an idiot. Block at will if you havent already. :) Thanks for the headsup -- Cat chi? 16:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Ah, finally its done. Someone showed up again the other day. Could possibly be him.--Kilhan 22:17, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Naruto OVA merge
Hi! I left a reply to your comment on my talk page. Thanks! -- Byakuren 16:43, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * As the page stands right, I don't think there's enough material to warrant a whole article for each OVA. I suspect most people who visit one of the OVA's articles will eventually end up visiting the pages for all three, so having all these together is an added convience.  But convenience factor aside, I fear the articles will just be tagged for merger again. (I saw them before, and I assure you, they were painfully short.)  As a sensible compromise I suggest two things:
 * Starting a discussion on the article's talk page about the possibility of separating the articles.
 * If it is decided that multiple pages are desireable, rather than create the incomplete stub-length pages and gradually fill them up, I suggest beefing up the article (with the extra paragraph on production information and other such info) in the existing page, and once it is ready to stand on its own, then do the move.
 * What do you think? Let me know and I'll start the discussion section. -- Byakuren 02:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * While I do not object to a discussion idea, I'd prefer to come up with a concensus between you and me. My comments were for the long term future of the page(s). I just want Naruto ova page(s) to have the same quality as the OMG counterparts with infoboxes and etc.
 * I have not ever seen a single Naruto OVA episode so I am more than disqualified to contribute to the article(s) aside from minor tweaks such as renaming.
 * -- Cat chi? 14:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Tactics of Kurdistan Workers Party
There appears to be a problem with the article. The afd you closed isnt observed. There is a nasty revert war going on the article. -- Cat chi? 16:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, could you tell me how my AfD closure isn't obesrved? It looks like an edit war going on, but my closure was "No consensus", which means the article should be kept for now. From what I see, it still is. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Let me elaborate. The result of the afd was not a "merge". Currently article is been reverted into a #redirect and hence beeing effectivly blanked/deleted.
 * Furthermore in my view Kurdistan Workers Party as is already exeeds 32kb limit by far hence there is no room for a merger.
 * -- Cat chi? 19:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * From an AfD point of view, that's fine. Not only is "no consensus" a weak result (meaning that the article can be quickly re-AfDed if necessary), but ultimately, an AfD really only has two real results: Delete and Don't delete: Delete includes BJAODN and Transwiki; Don't delete includes Keep, No consensus, Merge, Redirect, and almost any result that preserves the article history in a form that non-admins can view. In other words, whether the article is kept, merged, or redirected is decided through normal editorial actions and does not require admin actions or AfD. Normal editorial actions would be through the talk page and other forms of consensus. Whatever is happening in the article, I'm afraid it's outside my jurisdiction or enforcement as an admin who closed the original AfD. --Deathphoenix ʕ 19:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I see... Thanks anyways. -- Cat chi? 00:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

From L33th4x0r
Hi:

I've been in hiding for a long time cuz the government is out to get me...but anyways, the reason I linked to your page was because your page had so many userboxes and I would like to make a note to myself to look to your page as a template for my page (which as you can see are crammed full of userboxes). I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove user boxes.

Peace out.

L33th4x0r 19:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am glad you liked it. Though, I would reccomend the more current version. :) -- Cat chi? 00:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi:
 * But the current one doesn't have as many userboxes. :-(
 * I wonder if they still have the G.O.P. userbox.
 * L33th4x0r 00:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It actually has more userboxes. Notice a [Show] link next to "Click to show other userboxes".
 * What is a G.O.P. userbox?
 * -- Cat chi? 00:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi:
 * I see...cool.
 * G.O.P. = Grand Old Party = Republican Party.
 * L33th4x0r 00:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think political/religious userboxes are not welcome on wikipedia as per somewhat recent policy. -- Cat chi? 00:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi:
 * Yeah, but political userbox can still be found in user spaces.
 * IMHO the political userboxes are more "interesting". :-)
 * L33th4x0r 04:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I wasn't a participant of the userbox/politics debate. I might have made a comment or two. I am not an admin and even if I were an admin this is an area I wouldn't care about. There simply are admin tasks at higher priority IMHO. All I am saying is people might complain in the future.
 * -- Cat chi? 13:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Konichiwa:
 * I checked out your fold-out userbox frame and it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cool!
 * How did you do that??? With the collapsible in-line frame and all?
 * It seems that you also have a political userbox:
 * "all dicks should be circumcised" with a picture of Cheney beside it, obviously you're expressing political message there, no?
 * L33th4x0r 04:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The code to achieve that is in User:Cool Cat/Userboxes. Feel free to copy that to User:L33th4x0r/Userboxes or something.
 * Thank you soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much, definitely very helpful. However, the code in your User:Cool Cat/Userboxes space isn't showing any userboxes. L33th4x0r 20:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have nothing for or against Cheney (hey, he is not my leader). It is just that his name is "Dick" and we have a thing on meta called dick. I just needed a picture w/o copyright problems... I also didn't want to use an actual dick picture either.
 * -- Cat chi? 12:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hehehe...that's funny, you can actually use the penis pictures they have on the penis page, those are GPLed.
 * Yea but people would complain about it. -- Cat chi? 14:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * P.S. Is it posible for you not to start a new section when posting something on my talk page? :)
 * -- Cat chi? 12:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry, I just keep hitting that "add a new post" link on your page without knowing that you don't like people opening new sections. L33th4x0r 20:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I like new sections when people start the conversation. I can see how that link may lead to confusion. I'll modify the text. -- Cat chi? 14:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Not sure!
Hi Cool Cat, I 've tried to translate cool cat into Arabic and I am working on it. I'm not sure about you going to Iran or Saudi Arabia because both countries are Islamic fundmentalist and I heard that they will not allow non-Muslim froeigners into thier countries, especially if you are either a Jew or form the State of Israel. --Abdullah Geelah 21:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello there, any attempt in translation is better than none. SO I welcome the attempt weather or not it suceeds. :)
 * I just feel countries I marked as "not sure to go" will ever be "safe" in the near future.
 * -- Cat chi? 00:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Cool Cat, I've translated your name to Somali as well, you asked me to put the Arabic Translation in the Latin Script but to be honest with it is REALLY difficult. Nice to see you around! P.S. Can you put the Thankyou Sunflower that you awarded me on my userpage in a bigger size, and then write a caption for why you gave it me! Please  Abdullah Geelah 13:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I've translated your name in Pig Latin as well!! Just letting you know!  Abdullah Geelah 13:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * When people where translating your name, how did inform them to translate your name? because i want people to translate my name as well you can see it here, can you translate my name in what ever language you speak apart from the ones on that page. Abdullah Geelah 15:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't inform anyone in any way. People just stumbled upon the page or it is brought up by someone reading my userpage on an unrelated discussion (such as the list of anime). Admitively, I had pursued the japanese translation but I think that was the only exception.
 * I'd translate it to Turkish, but not certain how to translate a name to a different language. :)
 * -- Cat chi? 15:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * So you're TURKISH AFTER ALL THEN!!!!  Abdullah Geelah 16:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am only tr-3 and no I do not acknowlege being from any nationality. One doesn't have to be japanese in order to know/learn japanese.
 * BTW you may want to add a at the end of your sig as it is currently broken I believe. :)
 * -- Cat chi? 16:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you know the Wikithank you awarded me can you put it on my userpage with the caption please Abdullah Geelah 17:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Kiddy grade Peer review
First things first. The Ah! My Goddess page is almost defiantly the BEST anime/manga page on Wikipedia, and through a brief trawl of its history, you appear to be the person who made this so. I would be most grateful if you could read the Kiddy Grade article and its subsequent pages a take part in a peer review of the pages? I would be most thankful. The peer review page is here to provide feedback, and if you are not familiar with peer reviews, though as the AMG page was I doubt it, the guidelines are here.

Thank you!!!

--Crampy20 21:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind words. There actually is a better anime page out there for Excel Saga. I'll work on a "peer review" as soon as possible. -- Cat chi? 00:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

G20 Countries Map
I was wondering if you would be able to update it. On the G20 developing nations talk page, there have been some discussion of some discrepancies between the map and know G20 countries, even considering the fluncuation in member countries. --chemica 22:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll gladly assist. I have updated the map accordingly and uploaded it to commons. The second en.wiki counterpart is deleted it will start working. You may visit commons:Image:G20 countries (DN).png to view it.
 * I can create/update such images with pleasure, feel free to drop me a message anytime.
 * -- Cat chi? 23:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Great job! Thanks for the help. --chemica 01:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Your sig/I just saved a ton of characters on Geico!

 * I noticed it is


 * nae'blis (talk)
 * and was wondering if you'd modify it to


 * nae'blis (talk)
 * It would really do the same thing. I just have this thing against html tags on wiki. :P
 * -- Cat chi? 15:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Y'know, I thought I fixed that months ago. Seems like somebody else commented on the same thing, once upon a time...thanks for the catch! I've actually shortened it even more drastically... what do you think? -- nae'blis 15:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I shortened it even further.. course, it looks funny on my own talk page now, so you can see it here. What do you think? Thanks for the catch about the HTML though, I thought I'd fixed that months ago... -- nae'blis 15:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nice, I think that even beats my sigs length as far as total code length goes. :) -- Cat chi? 15:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Aha, looks like I fixed the  part on another wiki, and forgot to do so here. *rolls eyes* -- nae'blis 18:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

anime
Inquiry, by any means are you interested in anime related articles? Or to be more spesific Oh My Goddess!? -- Cat chi? 15:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually no, most of my edits are to the categories and types of articles on my user page: (neo)paganism, sociology, criminal justice, The Wheel of Time series (which is my biggest fandom, but now has its own wiki), and whatever else I happen to come across. -- nae'blis 18:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, those are tough topics... I hope you do not have to deal with constant flame wars etc.
 * Well, I am not a big fan of other wikis as I believe wikipedia should be the prime source of info. But thats just my view. After a quick review, I acualy like the way that series is covered on wikipedia. I think I'll use something like that for the Oh My Goddess! related articles.
 * -- Cat chi? 14:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Belldandy
We need the belldandy infobox expanded to include both Anime series 1 and Anime series 2 shots. I have tried but failed. -Dynamo_ace Talk
 * Sure thing, though I feel it is unnecessary to treat the two "series" as separate entities. -- Cat chi? 14:13, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Its just the engine was upgraded in season 2, that was all. -Dynamo_ace Talk
 * Well, I neither object nor support the issue either way, but have modified the infobox to have an "image8". -- Cat chi? 14:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, do you want to do the edit or me? -Dynamo_ace Talk
 * You are welcome to do it, I do not mind it either way. -- Cat chi? 15:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't seem to be working, when i add Image8 it duplicates the image7. -Dynamo_ace Talk
 * Try now. -- Cat chi? 16:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's working! Thanks a lot! -Dynamo_ace Talk

Wikipedia talk:Notability (fiction)
I think the discussion is turning into a flamewar and I am inclinded to bail out yet again.

I would like some sort of advice from a seasoned wikipedian (you) because I am getting tired of these constant flamewars.

It appears to me some of the participants there are more interested in establishing standards in a more burocratic manner. The entier nonsense at Talk:List of Air episodes and its sub page is visible fir instance.

I just want to be left alone when editing articles unless the person is interested in "expanding" or improving rather than barraging in quoting random policies and guidelines... -- Cat chi? 19:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, in fairness, there's a balance somewhere between immediatism and eventualism (or deletionism and inclusionism, or exclusionism and inclusionism). Neither side is wrong, they're just of differing views. Wikipedia on a whole is a combination of policies, ideals, guidelines, ideas, and creativity that's staggering in its depth: if you're getting frustrated, I'd suggest maybe to step back out of the project space and go back to working on articles and not worry so much about the behind the scenes. I don't think anything much is going to change with the notability (fiction) requirements... much of what we do is talk and discussion, rather than debate and argue, thankfully. -- nae'blis 19:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes but some of the people discussing that are giving me a hard time outside of project-space such as getting articles deleted, mumbling incohirently etc... while not contributiong at all to the topic.
 * I especially need advice on how to deal with nonsense visible at the hsotry of List of Air episodes...
 * -- Cat chi? 20:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not ignoring you, just thinking about how to best approach answering (also, it's Friday and I'm trying to get stuff wrapped up here at the office). I'll respond sometime this weekend, most likely; there's a lot more behind the scenes here than I had previously realized, and people on both sides of the discussion are acting in disappointing fashion. Keep your chin up, and keep up the article edits! -- nae'blis 20:52, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll wait. :) I appriciate any assistance as I desperately need it.
 * I understand as a fellow seasoned editor that it should be I desclating the issue but all my attempts so far has been most unsuccesfull.
 * -- Cat chi? 22:22, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Spellchecking archives
Hi, you/the bot had fixed typos at User talk:White Cat/Archive/2006/06. I was wondering if you could do the same for other such archives linked on that very page. :) -- Cat chi? 23:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, Been through and AWB has edited most of them. Hope this is what you wanted! Reedy Boy 07:35, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I only see a correction at User talk:White Cat/Archive/2006/06, I was wondering if you could do the same to User talk:White Cat/Archive/2006/07, User talk:White Cat/Archive/2006/05 User talk:White Cat/Archive/2006/04 ... User talk:White Cat/Archive/2005/02? -- Cat chi? 12:26, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

To CC:

Not that I care about what you do with your talk archives, but I'm involved in some of those discussions. If you wish to preserve those discussions, do so accurately, because I'm sure you'll bring them up again in the future. -- Ned Scott 08:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * My archives are my business (I dont even have to archive) and if you have problems in me getting people to improve spelling inside archives, you ought to check your priorities. This is yet again borderlining harrasment.
 * Now how did you know that my archives were being edited?
 * -- Cat chi? 12:26, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Because my preferences are set to watch every page I edit, including your talk page, and someone posted a big ass message saying "I spell checked your talk archive". The tricky thing about talk page archives is you have to assume the archiver hasn't modified the conversation, but you seem to have no problem with this.  I'll keep that in mind when ever you attempt to cite past discussion. -- Ned Scott 12:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Why is the spell checking of my talk archives of any concern to you?
 * How frequently do you check your watchlist to be able to respond to my post on my talk page 6 minutes after my post?
 * -- Cat chi? 12:38, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Ned here. did you see the section below your request to reedy boy? It is really not done to edit another users signed comments. This is even worse than editing another users user page. Only with express permission - and in some highly exceptional cases - is such a thing acceptable. Please do not put out such requests when pertaining to other users' signed comments. &mdash; Zanaq (?) 12:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I want my archives to be spell checked. All posts to wikipedia licensed under the GFDL which allows the work to be edited. Obviosuly common sense dictates it is more than stupid to edit an archive changing someones comments in a manner that is changing the meaning of his/her comments. Spelling correction does not do this. Furthermore, the original version is avalible in archive history. -- Cat chi? 13:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It concerns me when it contains messages that I signed and responded to. And I check my watchlist a lot, because I edit articles and am involved on Wikipedia. How are these strange concepts to you? -- Ned Scott 12:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It isn't strange at all, I am quite familiar with that concept. User:Davenbelle, User:Moby Dick and at a point User:Karl Meier (tho not anymore) had been editing just like that.
 * You are edit conflicting me on my talk page... I got news for you my talk page and archives are NOT articles.
 * -- Cat chi? 13:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, and that's why we don't want to waste time on vandalism on talk pages. If comments are edited continuously, that makes detection of fraudulent edits harder. Some people believe that even spelling errors reveal something about ones personality. Others believe that you should not even edit your own comments once they are responded to: in any case you should not change the meaning of your own comments. In such a case it should be striked through, and such should be dated and noted. Just don't edit archives and don't edit other users signed comments. &mdash; Zanaq (?) 13:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, but the point of archives is to preserve the discussion. Making it more readable/understandable with spelling corrections should only be welcomed. I explicity state that "positive edits are always welcome" on the header of my talk page.
 * Since you do not even have comments in my talk archives (that I know of) I do not quite understand why you are even part of this...
 * -- Cat chi? 13:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I am a part of it because I noticed your comment about correcting the archives above my complaint to reedyboy. You even state specifically this is an Archive. Please do not edit on top of your archives. This is as it should be. Don't make a fuss, and just don't do it, and especially not in other people's signed comments. Btw. I too have set the option of watching every page I edit and I have the nasty habit of involving myself with almost everything that is of (semi-)interest to me. Good luck. &mdash; Zanaq (?) 13:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Stop with the bullshit stalker accusations. -- Ned Scott 13:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * A thought, in your view what constitutes as stalking... -- Cat chi? 13:46, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Considering our frequent discussions, it should not be a surprise that I have your talk page on my watchlist. A quick look on your Office sub page shows articles that you are interested in editing. Notice that I don't come across you on other subjects, such as Star Trek (although I am a fan), Turkey, Nuclear related, NATO, etc. We do cross paths on anime articles, Wikipedia name space talk pages and guidelines about fiction, etc. We also both seem to like many of the same animes.
 * I'm sorry for my knee-jerk reaction and saying "bullshit stalker accusations", but it just boggles my mind that you think I'm stalking you.
 * -- Ned Scott 01:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That doesn't answer my question, in your view what constitutes as stalking? -- Cat chi? 16:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:STALK gives some example definitions of Wikistalking: "In both cases below, the action of "following someone around" was not the only offense, but rather compounded the harm that the stalker was causing to the project.", "The term "wiki-stalking" has been coined to describe following a contributor around the wiki, editing the same articles as the target, with the intent of causing annoyance or distress to another contributor. This is distinct from following a contributor in order to clear repeated errors.", "It is not acceptable to stalk another editor who is editing in good faith. (Note that everyone is expected to assume good faith in the absence of definite evidence to the contrary.) Once an editor has given reason to suspect bad faith, monitoring is appropriate, but constantly nit-picking is always a violation of required courtesy."
 * I would agree with those definitions, but would say they might not be the only examples of it. "I know it when I see it". And to be specific, I do not believe I am wikistalking you, or that I've ever wikistalked anyone on Wikipedia. -- Ned Scott 16:20, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "This does not include checking up on an editor to fix errors or violations of Wikipedia policy, nor does it mean reading a user's contribution log; those logs are public for good reason. The important part is the disruption - disruption is considered harmful." -- Ned Scott 16:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting that I am being disruptive by requesting a spell check of my own talk archives? Is it disruptive for me to modify my own comment at the air recap afd? How about my commons rfa? What about me "going to far" on 2nd air episode? The air template revert war? Air list revert war? Fullmetal alchemist FLC? Planetesl episode list talk page issue? Naruto list issue? Should I keep listing?
 * I'd like to note that davenbelle did not interfere with my anime edits (maybe only once to a degree). Davenbelle however had a "common interest" in all articles related to Kurds, Turkey, Armenians etc. So he wasn't stalking to excess, never the less he was stalking. Same goes for Moby Dick even though the rfar hasnt been closed yet.
 * Davenbelle and others were mostly given a second chance (to cease stalking and mind their own afairs) and that is why the rfar wasn't too terribly harsh or so I was told by a few of the arbitrators. The second rfar on Moby Dick (likely Davenbelle sock) is significantly harsher than the one for davenbelle.
 * -- Cat chi? 19:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I am suggesting that you feel I am being disruptive for noticing your changes to talk pages. I do not know those users, and I am not them. I could easily push a conflict with you on many more issues (and likely "win" with ease), but I don't because I'm not an asshole. I don't take cheap shots and I don't try to drive editors away from Wikipedia.
 * When I posted a WikiProject banner on the list of Naruto episodes, and I saw a discussion that was of interest to me, I left a comment. I did not seek you out, but I'm not going to ignore an article just because you are also there. RfAs and FLCs are situations where it's encouraged for editors to be critical of subject at hand (the user for an RfA, and the article for the FLC). I am upfront with you, I do not hide my motivation, "sneak" around, or lie about our conflicts. My comments on the FMA FLC was before I even had a strong opinion of you.  You can't get mad at me for nominating any article for deletion, it's apart of the deletion policy. And trying to list the Air thing as separate issues is just a lame attempt to make our conflict seem larger than it is.
 * What's funny is in most of our disputes you eventually use the idea that I suggested, despite your passionate arguments against them. This leads me to believe that you do not take issue with what I suggest, but you take issue with me.
 * And yes, according to WP:FICT, you had gone "to far" in creating that amount of stubs. It was out of line of an established consensus, both on Wikipedia as a whole and on the "local" article.
 * Look at my nomination message for the recap episode "Delete, While there is still some debate on this TV show, whether or not to keep individual episode articles, I would think this one could safely be deleted. It's a recap episode with no new animation/footage/etc. In other words, there's nothing more to say about it, other than it was a recap episode, which can easily be done on List of Air episodes. Ned Scott 06:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)"
 * I specifically did not nominate ANY other article for deletion, despite being encouraged to do so by other editors, because I knew the discussion was still going on. The recap episode seemed like a black and white issue that could easily be agreed upon by both sides. And you accuse me of doing this at the time that I did because you were on vacation. How on Earth would I even know you were on vacation?
 * You somehow don't see all the edits we don't conflict on, the articles we don't both maintain. A logical non-stalking connection can easily be seen as to why we "run into each other", but you don't see that either. You've either become paranoid or you are trying to use this stalking accusation as a threat to drive me away from the articles we both edit. -- Ned Scott 21:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Eeto, tenshi-sama... I could give you a lengthy response disputing every alogation and accusation you direct at me but there really is no point in that. Unlike you I am uninterested in flamewars. I do not start and "win" flamewars nor do I brag about them. -- Cat chi? 16:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * This isn't a flamewar.. -- Ned Scott 22:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Eeto,
 * Flaming is the act of posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting, usually in the social context of a discussion board on the Internet.
 * I was at least one occasion subject to a direct inslult. Some of the other comments can be interpreted as threats or insults...
 * The word flaming is also sometimes used for long, intensive and heated discussions, even though insults do not occur.
 * I'd call this a heated debate... Heck it occupies over half of my talk page and is sizably large even for my archives. So it even meets that second "criteria"...
 * It takes two to flamewar hence why I am bailing out of it. Practice on someone else.
 * -- Cat chi? 14:37, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

feles frigida
No problem.--Josh Rocchio 21:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Template:South America
I am working on all slowly on this list: WikiProject Countries/Templates/Navboxes feel free to assist. :)

Meanwhile mind if I revert that template?

-- Cat chi? 12:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * OMG =) Of course you can change the template, but please note that some pages, like Falkland Islands, use for its templates. IMO it's better to delete all those parameters from the articles before doing any changes, but again, proceed at your own will. =) Cheers. --Nkcs 12:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * What exactly does boxmerge do? I haven't seen it do anything :/ -- Cat chi? 14:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The idea's from the German Wiki. It literally "merges" the templates into an only box; the problem is that all of them must follow the same layout, or at least a very similar one. IMO it gives a nice impression of professionalism, but of course it's not really necessary. --Nkcs 23:24, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... Looks redundent to me since they "merge" either way. :) -- Cat chi? 01:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps. But take a look at the websites of, e.g., University of Western Australia. It's only for beauty's sake, but c'mon, doesn't look nice? =) Cheers. PS: I've added some translations on User:Cool Cat/In many languages.... You're welcome. =) --Nkcs 04:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah! The working example!
 * Yes that does look nicer. I am thinking of ways to incorporate that at a broader scale.
 * -- Cat chi? 05:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

NATO vs WP map
I hope you didn't mind my editing your excellent map. I thought as well as the repetition of the Soviet Far East that the shape was awkward. --Guinnog 16:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I wanted to display that Russia/Warsaw Pact was right next to Alaska. I'd rather not sacrifice that. The "awkwardness is because of "Map projection" issues. Earth is not flat :P
 * Furthermore I'd be happier if you modified the image and uploaded over the commons one rather than creating a duplicate.
 * -- Cat chi? 16:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I take your point. But having the Soviet Far East in there twice was inaccurate. Maybe there is a better way we can do it, but I don't see how. Splitting the SU down the middle seems even more awkward.
 * And what do you mean the Earth isn't flat? Since when? :)
 * I'll upload it to the Commons once we have a solution we can botrh live with, good idea.
 * --Guinnog 16:11, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * How about slicing the duplicate half from the end of the larger peice of warsaw pact? I'll do this on commons image. -- Cat chi? 16:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Well, I won't fight you over it but this was what I meant by splitting the SU down the middle. Still seems awkward. --Guinnog 16:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am open to suggestions... I could slice it sooner (smaler chuck next to alaska) -- Cat chi? 16:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, try that and see what it looks like. Another possibility might be to use a Polar projection, giving a circular map and avoiding the problem neatly. Would you be up for that? --Guinnog 16:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I tried something new. I like the polar idea and yet opose it in a way. The polar projection distorts borders too much (especialy for countries like Turkey greece etc... I am not certain how much it distorts but if it doesnt look awkward like that, I am all in for that. -- Cat chi? 16:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

What about something like this? Image:NATO vs Warsaw (1949-1990)e.png I did it very quickly and I (or you) could do a 'nicer' version easily enough. --Guinnog 17:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thats fine, however I lack the resources to make it any better. So, yes a nicer version would work but you have to do it. :P -- Cat chi? 18:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, leave it with me. I'll message you when it's done. --Guinnog 19:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)