User talk:100145119d/Roma (mythology)

= Instructor Comments on Peer Review/Draft 2 =

BeckAnn B thank you for your excellent peer review. You've taken great care in providing thoughtful, detailed feedback and it is much appreciated! Grade: 15/15

100145119d first and foremost a reminder to add your response to Peer Review # 2 (from my email on March 17): By tomorrow, March 18 (ideally, but let me know if you can't for whatever reason): 1) Respond to your 2nd peer review in your sandbox talk page (10 points). Make all proofreading, grammatical, spelling, and structural changes (I see you've done much of this). Make revisions if you have time, but in addition to the changes listed above, you must at acknowledge that you have seen the 2nd peer reviewer's suggestions, and write a brief sentence or two explaining what you will add to your article for the final draft and how your final article will be improved. You are currently losing marks for this, so please do it ASAP!

100145119d good work separating your article into the requested sections. However, I'm still not clear as to how this info will fit into the existing page, and I asked you to address that in my last round of feedback ("make sure the version you submit this weekend is integrated into the page, or the existing page is re-written") - please address this ASAP. You've received an excellent peer review and I expect you to take all their suggestions into consideration, especially with regard to expansion and clarification of various sentences and topics. I don't see much content added since the last round of edits, so you've got your work cut out for you. Please make sure to respond to your 2nd peer review as well as my suggestions, and explain your goals for the next few weeks. Grade: 11/15. Gardneca (talk) 16:31, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

=Peer Review 2=

''Hi! All my edits and suggestions are in italics like this message, your work is bolded and the original text is normal''

Roma (Mythology) Draft

In ancient Roman religion, Roma was a female deity who personified the city of Rome and more broadly, the Roman state. Her image appears on the base of the column of Antoninus Pius. She embodied Rome in complex ways and symbolized the idea woman in society. Is this meant to say "ideal"?

'''Roman political and religious ideas were portrayed through Roma in the different forms of media: coins, sculptures and designs on architecture. Roma was a construction of Roman state patronage.'''

''This above sentence is a little heavy and would be difficult for someone without prior knowledge of Rome to understand. Maybe consider adding what Romans considered patriotic?  'Though her depictions have been influenced by other goddesses at the time, Roma still stood out as a symbol of Rome. ' This would be a great place to add a short list of what other deities she is compared too ''

In Roman art and coinage, she was usually depicted with a military helmet, and often other military equipment, although in the Greek-speaking east she more often wore a mural crown, signifying Rome's status as a loyal protector of Hellenic city-states. She survived into the Christian period, joining the Tyches of other cities, now as a pure personification. In groups of these she can usually be distinguished by the helmet, as the others wear mural crowns representing their city walls. She often appears on coins, and her depiction seated with a shield and spear later influenced Britannia. '''Media played a big part on portraying Roma. She was depicted on many different items throughout Rome.''' This would be a great place to add a brief list of the items you talk about later

Iconography

The goddess Roma was represented throughout ancient Rome in many different ways. Since this section is iconography, maybe consider changing the word "ways" above to symbols or images

In the late first century CE, she was represented on a silver cup. I would consider adding more information about the silver cup (of course if more is known or accessible to find)

'''In the town of Boscoreale, Italy she appears helmeted, her foot resting on a helmet and wielding a spear. These depictions of Roma had to be accurate as they presented an 'official' image of Rome. An example of this is during the Punic Wars. Rome issued coins that had the head of Roma on one side and the figure of victory on the other. Rome believed that by doing this would encourage the idea that Rome would prevail over her enemies.''' ''I believe the above sentence would be a good place to directly state which source your information is coming from. The Romans did indeed believe this, but by saying "current scholarship believes Romans thought doing this..." you are making the sentence appear as the fact it is, than opinion it currently appears to be to the reader.''

In other works, the Gemma Augustea sculpture by Dioscurides, Roma is sat in state beside Augustus in military apparel.

'''The Arch of Titus is a 1st-century CE honorific arch, located south-east of the Roman Forum. Roma is depicted on the keystone of the arch and is in fully panoply on the left side of the archway. where she is escorting the emperor on chariot.''' ''I think this would be a great place to expand upon your sentence above. Prior to reading this and following the link, I didn't know what the word panoply meant, so a short definition would help a reader with less Roman knowledge than yourself. Another option would be linking the word "panoply" to its Wikipedia page.''

'''The representation of Roma on the Arch of Titus is constant representation of her throughout the Roman empire. In other arches of Septimimus Severus and Constantine, she is depicted the same.'''

All of the forms of media Roma was depicted in throughout Rome, mimic the representations of Minerva. ''I would consider rewording this sentence, as I had to read it a few times to understand it. It is overly wordy and could be simplified. ''

'''The images of Roma all portray characteristics that represent Rome: intelligence, dignity and military strength. Roma's imagery was made to depict what Rome is and the idealized view of Romanitas. This was the Roman personification of its virtues.''' Good job expanding on the idealized views.

Comparisons with Other States

'''Not only was the depiction of Roma important to Rome but also women living in the society. Roma's 'femaleness' showed that she was a consort to the emperor and protector of the Roman people. This is shown through her revealed breasts which signified her virtue. Throughout Rome, Roma has been depicted with revealed breasts. Her breasts were the symbol for her maternal nurture of the Roman people. Roma is the mother of the Roman people, therefore, her maternal beauty was sculpted throughout the various forms of media.''' ''I suggest adding the scholarship or source that you add for the last 3 sentences directly into the text and not just a citation. (Also, is the above [3] citation for this sentence as well? This is just currently unclear). Otherwise, the sentence appears as if you're arguing about Roma's symbolic representation''

'''In Greek cities, the depiction of Roma is similar to the iconography of Tyches. Tyches was the goddess of Greek states and is said to be the daughter of Aphrodite and Zeus. Similar to Rome, many Greek states dedicated temples, altars, statues to Roma. But since Greek cities also worshipped Tyches, her attributes also was adopted in Greek depictions of Roma. Some of these attributes include Tyches' mural crown and cornucopia.''' ''This would be a great place to add a link with the word "cornucopia" or explain what it is. The average Wikipedia reader would have less Roman knowledge than someone in our class and would not understand what it is.''

'''Other similarities between goddess include Athena. Romans considered Athena to be the Hellenic equivalent to Minerva, therefore she was often seen in Roman culture too. An example of this is Roma's seated pose. This seated pose of Roma appears in 69 percent of the known images, which is influenced by the established imagery of Athena. Like Athena, Roma is represented as a masculine-female who has the personification of empires built on conquest and war. The difference in the two goddesses is the clothing worn. Athena does not show legs or bare breasts.''' Good job on this comparison!

'''Roma was also depicted in the city of Corinth. The presence of Roma is found in the Panayia Domus which is related to the statues of the goddess on Temple E in Corinth. It served as a reminder that Corinth was a capital of the Roman province of Aschaia. Again, Roma is shown as a strong indication of Rome's dominance across is region. The symbol represents the strong sense of conquest.'''

'''In Lucan's poem, Pharsalia, Roma is also depicted as a strong woman that represents Roman values. Early in the epic Julius Caesar repudiates Roma herself, he does not share the ideas of the goddess of Roma.''' ''I'm not quite sure what the above sentence is trying to say. Who is he not sharing these ideas with? I would expand on this point a little, as part of this assignment is to assume that the person reading the page lacks prior knowledge. I'm not familiar with this poem and the sentence may make better sense to someone who is.''

'''His destructive progress through the poem inevitably ends with a mistress in Egypt. The poet identifies Roma and the res publica with the Roman matrona, a man who rejects either one is not truly Roman. However, a good Roman man loves a virtuous Roman woman because she embodies Roman virtues, and this is what Roma represents-Roman virtues.'''

''Overall I really enjoyed your contributions to the page! You definitely did your research and seem to have a good grasp of your subject. My main issue reading this was, that some points are rather unclear to a less knowledgeable reader. This could easily be fixed by expanding on a few points and writing with the mindset that the reader lacks any prior knowledge of the Roman lifestyle and ideals. Another small thing to improve the article would be to link more pages within your writing. This would help the reader get a better understanding of the concepts your explaining, as they could seek more in-depth information easily. I really enjoyed your many comparisons of Roma to other deities and their differences! You do a very good job of citing your sources, the placement of a few of your citations is a little confusing though because they are at the end of sentences and not paragraphs. This means that you often have paragraphs ending without a citation, making me wonder whether the last few sentences are cited from the source above or the source below it. I suggest taking a closer look at this, as you can never really have too many citations. The only other thing that stood out to me was that a few of your sentence is explained in a way that almost seems like an argument. I know that this is untrue, and you are merely reflecting the current or past views of scholarship, but in-text referencing the scholar or primary source would quickly solve this confusion. Overall you did a great job, and I look forward to seeing your final product!'' — Preceding unsigned comment added by BeckAnn B (talk • contribs) 00:58, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Response to Peer Review 2
Thank you for the feedback. I did make the grammatical changes. I added the hyperlinks to other pages and it does make it easier for people to understand what I am talking about. With reference to the citations, I am not sure what you meant by adding the source under the "Comparisons with Other States". I will try to move the information around or cite it better if that helps. I also did expand on some of the information to help make it easier to understand for people that do not know Roman history. The lists do make it easier visually, therefore, two lists were made. To make sure my information goes well with the page, I have included the previous page along with my work to bring all the information together. This will help Dr. Gardner and others get a better understanding of the changes made. 100145119d (talk) 21:49, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

=Instructor Comments on Draft/Peer Review 1=

JeremyML thanks for your review. The suggestions you make are really good, especially with regard to the clarification and expansion of the content. I just wish there were more of it! It's clear your comments are thoughtful and considered, but there are several other places that could have been commented on, so for the next round work on being more thorough with your feedback. Grade: 15/20 Gardneca (talk) 00:42, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

100145119d good work adding this new section, it's a lot of content and will help to bolster the existing page. Remember to bold the information you add (even if it's all of it!) so that your peer reviewers can better understand your contribution. All of the content you added is good, but please take into consideration your reviewer's comments, below. I definitely agree with expanding on certain topics, and proofreading everything carefully once you integrate your info into the new page. Speaking of integration...how will all of this info be incorporated into the Roma page? I don't think it can stand alone as a section because there are so many different areas addressed within the paragraphs you added. Perhaps a section on 'Iconography' and then the 'comparisons' info can be added into existing sections (Roma in the Greek world, for example). Or maybe you want to do a complete overhaul of the page? This is completely up to you, just consider this carefully as you go into the next round of edits, and make sure the version you submit this weekend is integrated into the page, or the existing page is re-written. You've got some work ahead of you, but I like the direction you're taking this. Grade: 17/20 Gardneca (talk) 00:42, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

=Peer Review 1= Edits:

Paragraph 1) The goddess Roma was represented throughout ancient Rome in many different ways. In the late first century CE, she was represented on a silver cup. In the town of Boscoreale, Italy she appears helmeted, her foot resting on a helmet and wielding a spear.[5] These depictions of Roma had to be accurate as they presented an 'official' image of Rome. An example of this is during the Punic Wars. Rome issued coins that had the head of Roma on one side and the figure of victory on the other. Rome believed that by doing this would encourage the idea that Rome would prevail over her enemies.[5] In other works, the Gemma Augustea sculpture by Dioscurides, Roma is sat in state beside Augustus in military apparel. 

You mention that Roma was represented on a silver cup. Is there anything else you could add to that? Was the cup owned by an important figure in Rome at the time?

Paragraph 3) All of the forms of media Roma was depicted in throughout Rome, mimic the representations of Minerva. The images of Roma all portray characteristics that represent Rome: intelligence, dignity and military strength. Roma's imagery was made to depict what Rome is and the idealised view of Romanitas.[5] This was the Roman personification of its virtues.

after you mention Minerva, could you add a little description of who that is or make the word "Minerva" a hyperlink so it takes whoever clicks on it to the Minerva wikipedia page

Paragraph 4) Not only was the depiction of Roma important to Rome but also women living in the society. Roma's 'femaleness' showed that she was a consort to the emperor and protector of the Roman people. This is revealed through her revealed breasts which signified her virtue.[3] Throughout Rome, Roma has been depicted with revealed breasts. Her breasts were the symbol for her maternal nurture of the Roman people. Roma is the mother of the Roman people, therefore, her maternal beauty was sculpted throughout the various forms of media. 

In the sentence "This is revealed through her revealed breasts which signified her virtue." Maybe find a way to rephrase or use synonyms to avoid using the word "revealed" twice in the short sentence.

Paragraph 5) '''In Greek cities, the depiction of Roma is similar to the iconography of Tyches. Tyches was the goddess of Greek states and is said to be the daughter of Aphrodite and Zeus. Similar to Rome, many Greek states dedicated temples, altars, statues to Roma.[3] But since Greek cities also worshipped Tyches, her attributes also was adopted in Greek depictions of Roma. Some of these attributes include Tyches' mural crown and cornucopia.[3] Other similarities between goddess include Athena. Romans considered Athena to be the Hellenic equivalent to Minerva, therefore she was often seen in Roman culture too. An example of this is Roma's seated pose. This seated pose of Roma appears in 69 percent of the known images, which is influenced by the established imagery of Athena.[3] Like Athena, Roma is represented as a masculinized-female who has the personification of empires built on conquest and war.[3] The difference in the two goddesses is the clothing worn. Athena does not show legs or bare breasts.'''

Interesting information but it focuses heavily on Greek origins. I understand you're comparing Roma to Tyches, but a large majority of Roman gods/goddesses have Greek counterparts. I think it would be best to leave any information regarding the Greek "version" of Roma to a separate wikipedia page.

Annotated Bibliography
100145119d excellent work with your sources so far. I like the variety of citations you've found and I think these additions will make a significant improvement to your article. The current Roma page is strange in that it is relatively short but has a disproportionate number of citations - you can always work on cleaning that up as well. One thing to mention, in your Hesperia source you mention that you'll use that source to "supplement information about the relation between the worship of Roma and of goddess around Rome" but this article is actually about worship of Roma in Greece - I wanted to make sure that was clear. I forget, are you interested in the physical aspects of her worship (temples, etc.)? If so, let me know and I can help you find additional sources. At the very least, you'll be able to find photos of the temples to add to the page. Grade: 10/10 Gardneca (talk) 17:21, 21 February 2020 (UTC)